UPDATED on 6/22–I should mention that if you have your own blogs, feel free to link to this discussion so we can not only get as many opinions as possible, but also get this project in front of as many eyes as possible. Price is important, but ultimately endeavors such as this stand or fall on word of mouth. I’ve got over 100K words; now we need the mouths.
In several weeks, on July 8, Crazy 8 Press will be going live, and I’m looking for your input on pricing.
For those who came in late, C8 is a group publishing endeavor being launched by Mike Friedman, Bob Greenberger, Aaron Rosenberg, Howie Weinstein, Glenn Hauman and yours truly. We’ll be offering both original and previously published material directly to you, the audience. It will be available on all standard e-formats and also (with any luck) print on demand.
The first book is entitled “The Camelot Papers.” I’m not going to go into plot details at the moment, because the first chapter will be available for free shortly and you can get a feel for it yourself. Basically I’m just putting forward the format: an original, satirical Arthurian novel with a political bent (although not related to “Knight Life” trilogy) by me, 454 pages, (over 100K words) cover by J.K. Woodward.
I’m interested in what you think it should be priced at. There’s no clear cut guide. Ebooks run the gamut from free to $12.99 and higher. The POD version is a different pricing issue and I’ll be handling that separately; I only want people to weigh in on eBooks right now.
Now, to be up front with you: I reserve the right to follow my own impulses on this. I’m interested in your input, but I don’t want anyone to be offended if I wind up ignoring them because, let’s face it, I’m going to wind up ignoring SOMEone. Plus ultimately I have to put it out at a price that I’m comfortable with, and I trust you guys will respect that.
Interested parties can check in at the site, which is here.
PAD
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First, I have a question. Is this the result of the idea for an Arthur book you mentioned in a DragonCon panel on King Arthur a few years ago? I remember in the panel you mentioned something of a satirical take on Camelot. I remember you mentioned that it might be a behind the scenes of what really happened with the main characters we all know being foolish and someone (maybe a court historian or scholar, I’m fuzzy) having to fix things. I remember you said that the idea hit you right then and you quizzed the audience to see if they thought it was good (we did). Anyway, if this is the end result of the that creative moment, I want this book for no other reason than I’ve never been around at the genesis of a creative project.
As for the pricing, I’m still struggling with digital pricing on a personal level. I do feel it should be cheaper than a physical counterpart. I’m very cheap so I would love to join the chorus of dollar to two dollar folks, but I don’t feel that’s realistic.
I would personally look at two variables. First, I would want to have a guess for the price of the POD option. I would think a digital price of half or a third the POD would satisfy those who feel (like myself) that the digital option should be cheaper. Second, I would encourage you to set an initial price that is high enough for you to have sales down the road. People have mentioned that a dollar is an impulse buy price. That may be true, but in my experience, the limited time price drop creates greater urgency and follow through to purchase for price conscious consumers (like me). If something is always priced for a dollar, I may not feel an urge to buy it right then. If something I am interested in is priced a little higher than I am comfortable paying, but has a sale. I have an incentive to purchase it then and I feel good about my purchase.
With that in mind, I would peg an ebook price around 5-10 dollars.
I’m looking forward to seeing how this works out for you.
Yup. This is the book that I came up with there on the spot at the Dragon*Con panel.
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PAD
I admit that I haven’t had time to read all the comments above, but I would say that any pricing should be analogous to what J. A. Konrath is doing with his original e-book in his Jack Daniels series. Like Peter, he has a solid sales and writing reputation, and he’s definitely giving a full novel, not a repurposed novella.
99 cents is what you price to get attention and build a reputation. Peter has the reputation – now he’s also free of the “one size/price fits all” model of a traditional publisher as well, and the price should reflect that.
I will admit that I will pay additional (dollar maybe) if it’s a real digital file that I download and own rather than a cloud based file that I have “access” to as long as the vendor decides that I should. I like Amazon a lot, but I still haven’t gone Kindle because of the DRM issues (just as I don’t do digital comics yet until they actually let me own something, not just rent it).
First: I’ve picked up a few e-books over the years, but mostly free ones. I like the idea of a mid-to-large screen e-book appliance (I’m still using my Palm T|X, with somewhere in the vicinity of a 3″ screen). As most e-books are *not* compatible with all devices and applications, I am concerned about the risk of a particular device/format being discontinued, and eventually being unable to read a book I purchased due to this. As this is not an issue with physical books, I tend to buy those, and would not see an e-book as being of comparable value.
I do tend to buy hardbacks more often than paperbacks these days. The primary reason for this is that I tend to read books during lunch breaks at work, and (given the fact that I often miss/skip such breaks) I can be dragging a book around for a long time. Historically, paperbacks got beaten up really badly, and hardbacks survived well. Also, it seems like many publishers reached a point where they’re publishing more new hardbacks than paperbacks each month – from which I infer some books will never make it to paperback.
My “to be read” stack tends to grow rather than shrink over time, to be honest, so if not for the durability factor, I would almost always be willing to wait for the paperback release of a book.
So, as a rule, I would be unlikely to pick up an e-book unless it was priced less that current standard mass market paperback prices. The $6 number that’s been tossed around would probably be my upper limit.
That said, someone made a comment earlier about pricing at $X being reasonable for up to 500 or 600 pages, and ($X * 1.5) for a higher page count. Now, that did get me thinking. While there is a certain amount of overhead in all this (in particular, the work for an artist to produce a cover doesn’t change much for a 100 page book or a 1,000 page one), I would imagine that much of the effort involved in producing a book this way can in fact be expressed as a multiple of the page count. Keeping in mind that this suggestion ignores the overhead, the idea of a penny a page (in terms of printed page sizes) does become appealing.
At the risk of getting shot out of a cannon, why not make chapters free, and have ads on them, as with cracked.com articles and such?
Since I’m familiar with your work, I’d pay $10 or so for a “print on demand” ebook from you. That’s pretty much what Amazon started out charging for the Kindle books and I think it’s a good price.
Come on, Peter, I’m surprised you didn’t come to this conclusion: Crazy 8 e-books…$8 each.
^ What he said. Brand, brand, brand!
I’ve been thinking about this and since I really am paying for the content rather than the object I don’t think that it should anywhere in $.99 sent range. For something like a novel, especially from an author I’m very familiar with anywhere between $3 – $11 would be a good place. Very recently I bought 2 books from a new author from Amazon. The first was 2.99 and that was pretty much a no-brainer. The second book in the series was 9.99 (which Amazon always passive-aggressively lists as being set buy the publisher). I had to think a moment on that one but I did finally buy and I enjoyed that book even more than the first one. As long as the quality is there and the it doesn’t cost, say $15, then I’ll be happy to pay it.
Has anyone recommended consulting the MobileRead forum? They might have a thread on this topic.
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In the past five years, I’ve purchased at least 45 eBooks and 13 digital comics. I buy digital over physical books whenever possible because I don’t have much bookshelf space. For me, eBooks represent convenience more than a discount. The discounts over the print editions are nice, though.
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The cheapest non-comic eBooks I ever bought were the His Dark Materials books when they were on sale for $3.99 each. An equally good deal was the first three Dragonriders of Pern books for $9.99.
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The fiction eBooks I purchased averaged between $7.99-$9.99, but I’ve also bought lengthy reference eBooks like Jane Bryant Quinn’s Making the Most of Your Money Now for $24.99 (29% off the $35 hardcover price).
Not to rain on the parade, but I hate e-books. I have borrowed a friend’s kindle and it just doesn’t work for me. If it comes out in paperback, I will buy it. Sorry.
Then buy the POD. Problem solved.
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Meanwhile, I am interested in the ebook, particularly if it interfaces well with one of the free reader apps for the iPhone. Makes a good way to kill time when I have to wait someplace, without being as bulky as a physical book.
http://jezebel.com/5776686/26+year+old-writer-makes-millions-on-ebooks-++-but-how-and-why
If she can makes millions off of sellings tons of ebooks for only .99cents I don’t see any reason why a higher profile writer like yourself can’t make more at the same price.
I see it as anything higher than $3 on something with no paper, or teams of people making it like a comic is more than enough.
Because for every one success story, there are a hundred instances of people not making enough to buy groceries.
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PAD
I recently bought a Kindle. I enjoy it a ton that being said I refuse to pay more for ebooks than I would for paperbacks. I figure the cost of producing and distributing an ebook is much lower than a paperback. The most I pay is 3 dollars. I made sure to get about every classic book I could on my Kindle for free. Now I shop in the 1-3 dollar range for all other books. So far so good.
I do enjoy your work PAD but I feel 3 dollars per book is a fair price.
I love love LOVE reading books on my Kindle. And since I live overseas (in Japan), I also love not having to pay shipping costs. That said, my “line” is $10.00. I figure at that price, I’m not really paying more than the paperback since with shipping a paperback would cost me more. There are exceptions, like the soon-to-be-released new Song of Ice and Fire novel–I’ll go a couple bucks over the line for something like that. But in general, I feel that an ebook that’s not new really ought to cost less than $10 unless there’s something really special about it. For a reprint of some back-catalog item, I would say it should be significantly less than $10.
I would like to mention Crazy 8 on my podcast this week, as digital publishing is a recurring theme on the show.
Other than signing up at the site or using this article, is there a place to get more info?
The site should be going live shortly with way more information than is there at the moment.
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PAD
Great! Thanks.
PD: for your new work I’d be willing to pay $9.99 – $11.99 per ebook. Anything $12 and up I get from a library or do without.
For older stuff, it just depends; I certainly will NOT pay $8+ for a 10 year old novel I can get at a used bookstore for $3. $3.99 – $5.99 is probably a decent range for much older works, $5.99-$6.99 for about the 2-5 year range.
That said I did like the suggestion of $8 for the Crazy 8s. While I won’t pay $8 for 1 10 year old novel, I would for a set of 2 or 3~
I’ve had a Kindle for about a year now, and read quite a bit.
If I am interested in a book, I won’t hesitate at anything $10 or below. Above $10 is where I start to think twice, and only reserve that for the authors I prefer.
I’m another one of those folks who hasn’t really gone in for ebooks. I think I’ve gotten 4 total, and printed them for reading. And, at least two of those were free.
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So, I’m afraid I wouldn’t be able to help here, as I’d be more inclined to go with the POD option, particularly where it comes to your work, Peter. That’s for reasons of preference and also because, with the vast majority of my Peter David library (novels, anyway) signed, and the rest just waiting for the next opportunity, I’d want that hard copy to eventually ask you to sign.
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–Daryl
For what it is worth, I like the 99-2.99 price point.
Setting the initial release of new material at 2.99, then following it up later (maybe a year maybe less) by dropping the price to 1.99 or 99 cents as a faux “paperback” release.
I know it doesn’t really make a lot of sense but psychologically if it gets much higher than that I feel like I’m being taken advantage of (even when it is not the case) and I’d rather get a physical copy at that point.
For me, it would be also where you are selling is another factor. If it was around $5 or less I would do an impulse buy on Amazon. If it was more, it would be on my wait for when I am feeling it wish list for later.
If it was a secondary site or other location, I would look more carefully at it, particularly with credit card numbers.
Well, I’ve bought some of your books for my Kindle at around the $10 mark, so…
I think around $5 would be a good price point. I suppose because you and everyone involved with Crazy 8 are people whose work I’m familiar with and trust. For newer authors, then yes, I can see the need for a lower price point, at least initially. But $5 is a good price. Probably not more than $10. I agree with Wade. If I saw an ebook by Peter David for $5 I wouldn’t hesitate.
Count me in with Lee and Nytwyng as one who has no use for ebooks. Won a ‘Kobo’ which was one of the prizes for a charity draw and gave it away after a couple of weeks. Slow, clumsy, not as easily legible as a real book, I really don’t see the appeal, save as a tricorder-like source of reference material. But for pleasure reading? No thanks. Give me real books any day.
PAD,
With books (and comic books) going the way of 8 tracks and VHS, I think its VERY smart business to ask what we think. I dont own a Kindle, Ipad yet but I can read them on my blackbery. So with that being said, I would like look at maybe no more than 13$. i dont know how much labor cost you have in a book but I would sit down and think about that. I am sure you have and you have a ball park figure of what you need to sell your book at to make a profit. By they way I checked out some of your older Star Trek books that are being sold for anywhere from $5.99-10.00. So I think $13.00 might be the magic number. However maybe you can give discounts to loyal fans that sign up for your new website? LOL
I get VASTLY annoyed at people who thinks what the price “SHOULD” be. 99% of the time, they’re basing it off of their own ignorance of major, important factors the producers of a product have to pay.
If they don’t want to pay a particular price, that’s one thing, but don’t say what the price “SHOULD” be.
For me….$5-$8.
I think the $8 from Crazy 8 is perfect for marketing. Personally, I’ll buy it no matter what.
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TAC
Hi Peter,
I am not too computer literate. Did download about 400 Star Trek books. Read about six. E-mailed Simon & Schuster to ask how I can pay for what I read. They did not really respond back. I did buy a hard copy of one of them already. I do buy lots and lots of hardcopies. But would like there to be some site where I can pay for what I read. I would pay going rates but I am not sure if the principles of supply and demand apply here. Just getting in to reading Peter David. Bought “Before Dishonor” and have all of the Psi Man series. Got some used books too. Thanks.
My big thing with e-books is the price relative to the deadwood version. If it’s ONLY available in HC, I’d cheerfully pay $12-15*. If it’s availabe in PB, I’d have to think long and hard at anything more than $6-7. E-books should, by their very nature, cost less than paper. Yes, the authors and editors and formatters and artists and whoever else need to get paid, and I’m all for that… but it’s not like they’re having to pay for the paper and ink and printing and binding and boxing and transporting and unloading and stocking and all that. I have no idea any details on POD (either for here specifically, or in general), so couldn’t even begin to do that kind of comparison.
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That being said, new books at $8 (or $8.88), considering the name of the company, definitely works. After a year or so, the price dropping would definitely be a good thing (simulating the paperback release of a hardcover), as would any older titles that get put up (which I’m guessing will be very few indeed… probably limited to those no longer in publication which don’t even have e-versions yet. C’mon, Howling Mad!) Whatever the final price turns out to be, though, you should at least consider dropping 12 or adding 8 cents. $5.88 or $6.08 instead of $6. Just ’cause, y’know, it’s Crazy!
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* This assumes, of course, I have the money. Which, sadly, at the moment, I really don’t. So by THAT logic, I think it should be free *g* (And no, I’m not even remotely suggesting it should be free…)
As someone said before, ebooks don’t have the same value as paperbacks or hardcovers, so I’d say less than $10 for sure and probably closer to $5/$6. Probably the $8 suggestion would be fine, too, especially if there are sales that make the average price be in the $5/$6 neighborhood.
Keep in mind that while I am a pretty steady ebook consumer, I keep ending up having to get the e-version of hardbacks that I don’t want to carry while traveling and if I like a particular book, I might go ahead and get the hardback afterwards (Patrick Rothfuss most recently inspired this behavior).
I echo a previous posters comment that it matters wether I’m getting a PDF file that is mine to keep or if I’m just getting access to a cloud server (or whatever).
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I really prefer print. something tangible. I like the tactile sensation I get with paper..
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For an ebook, I’d pay 4-5 dollars. maybe 6. .
But, why not make it 4.88 or 5.88. That keeps the price closer to *my* budget (selfish dastard that I am) *and* keeps the Crazy Eights theme.
Hey, short stories, and chapters at 99cents to $3.00, full novels “retail” at $8.00, but you can have specials and members pricing, etc etc to get to lower price points.
crazy 8s huh,
lynn
I’ve been a dedicated kindle user for about 2 years and change – anything under $10 is pretty easy to swallow. Maybe under $15 if it’s something I’m really anticipating.
Easy to swallow, in my opinion only, obviously.
A buddy of mine just published an ebook. He’s selling it for four bucks. It’s pretty good. Four bucks is definitely cheap enough to take a chance on an unproven writer.
So in PAD’s case, I’m sure it’s worth a ton more. For marketing purposes, I think $5 is a sweet spot (cheaper than lunch), or $9.99 maybe.
For me, a big question is the DRM.
If not DRM’d, then I would pay up to $10 easily, possibly $15 or more.
If it is DRMd, then I would have a hard time doing anything more then $5-6.
I’m not going to really get into the whole argument of DRM. I do believe an author has the right to protect their works. But if it has DRM, then I have to assue then in 5-10 years, I may need to rebuy the book due to changing platforms, ect.
(Not to mention the lack of a used e-book market. If I ever decide to dump my paper books, I can bet on about $1 or more for each paper book.)
Anywhere from $5-10. As many have said, if it is an author I love and a book I’ve been lusting for, I will pay more. This is equivalent to what I pay for print books: either buy the paperback or snag a hardback right away. I have not changed my buying habits, and I have owned my kindle for 3+ years. I still buy bound books occasionally.
Most of the free-$3.00 books I obtained in the past have been vastly disappointing. The quality of editing is frequently poor, characters might be stale, and plots have been predictable. I no longer buy an inexpensive e-book unless it is a special sale by the publisher or a self-published volume by an author I know well. I would rather have ONE well written $10 book than TEN poorly written $1 ones.
$3-$10.
Paperbacks can be pretty cheap, and I would figure that an eBook should cost about the same amount.
I linked to this discussion on my blog too.
400+ pg paperback-equivalent of quality writing that I am interested in I’ve paid up to 12$ for in ebook though I’ve usually waited and thought awhile on that price. I usually won’t wait or think on it much if it’s under 9$. Also, try to ensure you have the first three chapters or so as a sample if you want to win new readers, that’s how I make a lot of my decisions on new authors when getting an ebook. Good luck
Well to be honest a reasonable price would be $4.99, close enough to full paperback price that the common person would see it as a deal. Unfortunately most people still don’t know who Peter David is, geez I am a nerd and half my friends don’t know who Peter David is. So you advertise at $4.99 and casual scf-fi/fantasy readers will grab it up.
I’ve never bought an ebook, but I suppose the $5 to $10 range would be reasonable if we’re talking an electronic version of a book originally released in traditional hardcover or paperback format. For an ebook-only format of a 450 page book, maybe $1.00 less than whatever the paperback price would be.
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If The Camelot Papers is the first in a series of book with the same characters, then, once the first three are published, you might want to consider offering them at a special package price for all three. That might entice new readers to jump on board (the rest of the books in the series would be at your regular price, as would individual versions of the first three).
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Myself, I’d probably choose the print on demand version of The Camelot Papers. I may buy ebooks one day, but for now at least I still prefer the traditional format of the scroll.
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What’s that? Books are in codex format now? How long has that been going on? Nobody tells me anything.
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Seriously, maybe the codex will eventually go the way of the scroll, but I think ebooks still have some growing pains to get through. Reading an entire book on a screen doesn’t appeal to me. I can’t see myself sitting under a tree or in a hammock with a Kindle or Kobo (or whatever other devices are out there). But maybe the idea of reading ebooks will grow on me.
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On a slightly related note, I was in Washington two weeks ago, and on the flight from Baltimore to our connection in Atlanta (yes, we went south before going north and home), one of the people in the row in front of me was reading some comics on an iPAD or other such tablet. I asked him if he preferred that format over the physical comics, and he said he preferred the actual comics, but reading them on the tablet was more convenient when traveling. Maybe ebooks will end up working in a similar way, at least with established writers. Someone might buy the POD version of The Camelot Papers for their home library, as well as an ebook version to read while traveling. Are you considering a POD/ebook package deal? I understand Back Issue magazine offers a digital edition with a print subscription. I suppose that’s so people have the option of reading them on the go on a tablet or a Kobo or Kindle or whatever while on the go.
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Rick