Ages ago, when this season of my guilty pleasure, “Dancing With the Stars,” started up, I expressed irritation that all the media push was ignoring Jennifer Grey. “Nobody puts Baby in a corner,” I declared, and thus far since then I’ve been proven right. She has been the top score-getter practically every week. This evening she was declared to be in the top three for next week’s finals.
Unfortunately I’m starting to think that that’s as far as she’s going to make it. Why? Because the results of a recent poll published in “Hollywood Reporter” indicates that “Dancing” is the ninth most popular TV series on air with Republicans. And who else is still in the show despite dancing performances that are, at best, adequate, and paled in comparison to the magnificent Brandy, who was voted off this evening? Yup: Bristol Palin. There were looks of shock on everyone, particularly Grey’s dance partner, Derek Hough, who was literally slack-jawed, when Brandy was dumped while Bristol was still standing there.
DwtS has always been a popularity contest, but it’s particularly evident this year. It’s becoming abundantly clear that the GOP is lining up behind the daughter of professional candidate Sarah, perhaps in hopes that she’ll show up on the final episode. Mother has wisely kept as clear from daughter as possible, presumably so that if her daughter succeeds, it will be perceived as Bristol’s triumph alone. Should she indeed come out on top, and the odds seem for it (although I’d dearly love to be wrong) trust me: It won’t be perceived that way.
PAD
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In fairness, it should be pointed out that there are a lot of Republicans who don’t like Sarah Palin. I don’t know how many of them watch the show, though, or more importantly, vote. It’s quite possible that Palin’s supporters are the most fanatical voters in the audience– I wouldn’t be shocked if there were some Palin fans who don’t even watch the show but still vote. She does have a fanatical following.
But you shouldn’t abandon hope. Maybe Bristol has a solid minority block of supporters who always vote for her, while the majority of voters have split their votes between the other contestants. As the others have been eliminated, maybe the non-Bristol viewers will all fall in behind Jennifer.
It’s possible.
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I don’t have an opinion of my own because I don’t watch the show, but I do love Jennifer Grey. I’ve never seen Dirty Dancing, but she was great in Ferris Buehler. I even watched her on It’s Like, You Know, although I missed her real nose.
well Jezebel.com is with you Peter
http://jezebel.com/5691445/how-palin-conservatives-are-cheating-the-dwts-voting-system?skyline=true&s=i
The apparent bit about exploiting a fake email system in the online voting is the pretty dámņìņg.
I can’t comment on the US version, but as a Brit I adore the original UK version, Strictly Come Dancing.
Ann Widdecombe is currently flying through the show (literally, in the case of one episode) despite not being able to dance and she’s an ex-politician… but it’s definitely not to do with politics. She’s simply hilarious to watch.
I think voting (here anyway) has always been balanced between a few things: how good the dancing is, how popular the person is, how much their personalities appeal to the audience (especially if they’re funny) and where they are on the judges scores (people tend to vote for people at the top because they know they’re good, and at the bottom because they want to save them).
Yeah I figured something like this might happen. I gave up on this show a while back because it really is a high school popularity contest for adults. Is Bristol really a star? She was really known for mother and having a child out of wedlock (not saying there haven’t been other questionable choices)? If the GOP or Tea Party types really have rigged the voting (check the Jezebel link from Jason above) shame on them. Clearly based on the reactions when Brandy was voted off that something really, really went wrong. Well if anything, it will make the ratings go up though I’d wonder if this continues whether DwtS is going to get hurt in the long run. I mean why bother cheering on talented people when the slack jaw yokel wins because they have a higher twitter following, for example.
Chris,
Was that Twitter or twit following?
Ive never really watched the spanish version of the show (“Mira quien Baila” “Look who’s dancing”) but last season became infamous because one contestant couldnt be voted out, no matter how awfully she danced. It got so bad that the jury protested but the network threatened to sue them if they changed the voting system. She is a gossip talk show pundit that first became famous for having a bullfighter’s baby and has grown so popular that she’s been dubbed “the princess of the people”. Many say they would vote for her as president, even tho she can hardly speak one sentence without saying something either stupid or really offensive.
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So yes, the show is shaped to take the form of a popularity contest.
My wife watches this dopey show and, as I had just had us watch The Ghost and Mr Chicken for the umpteenth time, I had to sit and watch this thing like a man. A gay man, but a man still.
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Now I know why animals will gnaw off their own limbs to escape steel traps.
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It was a dopey idea to have on a politician’s kid. Of COURSE her supporters are going to vote for her. What’s really sad is that this will probably bother more people than the fact that the candidate they supported in the actual election of a month ago lost. Priorities, people!
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Anyway, Jennifer Grey is a lock to win. If Bristol is even in the top 2 it will result in a feeding frenzy of voting–maybe that’s what they want. face it, who would have thought DWTS would be a hot button political issue? Pure publicity gold. (which, er, would mean that it wasn’t a dopey idea at all. So much for my savvy analysis.)
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And I would hope that they would fix that stupid voting system–allowing fake email accounts is just an invitation to disaster.
Whenever I feel guilty for doing something really nerdy (like coming up with a system for better organizing my comic book collection), I remember that lots of people also spend their time doing things absolutely, mind-boggling useless, such as watching Dancing with the Stars. And then I feel less guilty.
What disturbs me the most about this (Well, second most, what disturbs me most is that I’m following a ballroom dance show) is that the reason she’s still on clearly illustrates some combination of the following.
1) People are willing to cheat a voting system solely to annoy another faction.
2) People are willing to vote for someone because they were told to, with no actual first hand knowledge of their performance.
3) People would rather vote for an underdog rather than someone with more qualified skills for the position.
I’m not really surprised by this, just kind of sad to see it out in the open.
Are you talking about the 2008 elections?
Yup, and the 2010 elections. And the 19XX elections.
Like I said, not surprised, just sad.
Some of the derangement over this is getting a bit scary:
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_3a5b6914-f1ce-11df-80f8-001cc4c002e0.html
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Bristol Palin’s dancing on TV set off man in standoff, complaint says
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…According to the complaint, Cowan and his wife were watching “Dancing with the Stars” when Cowan jumped up and swore as Bristol Palin appeared, saying something about “the (expletive) politics.” Cowan was upset that a political figure’s daughter was on the show when he didn’t think she was a good dancer, the complaint states.
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Cowan went upstairs for about 20 minutes and returned, demanding his pistols, which had been taken by his daughter about a month ago for safety reasons. He was carrying a single-shot shotgun, which he loaded and fired into the television.
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Cowan kept sheriff’s deputies at bay outside his home until 11 a.m. Tuesday, when he surrendered without incident, sheriff’s spokeswoman Elise Schaffer said.
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I’d love to blame the over the top liberal blogger hate for all things Palin for encouraging this level of psychopathy but I make it a rule to blame lunatics for their lunacy. It is amazing what will set some people off.
Well, Palin did tell America to reload….
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Maybe this guy was just inspired by Elvis.
Is there an equivalent of American Idol’s Vote For The Worst for Dancing With The Stars?
If someone could elaborate for me, I’d appreciate it: the Jezebel.com has a number of quotes claiming that gaming the DWTS vote is partially revenge for democrats cheating in other elections. I must have missed that one. Anyone know what they are referring to? Which elections, what evidence? I seem to have missed whatever they are referring to.
Anyone know what they are referring to?
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Well, there’s the general perception among conservatives that Democrats cheat in the elections with methods such as people voting multiple times, or droves of people voting Democrat that aren’t registered, etc.
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Thus, it’s why every general election the Right (or some faction there of – it was the Tea Party this past election) gears up to challenge voters at the polls across the country. It’s pretty much a ” the GOP is so superior that there *must* be something wrong if the Democrats win an election” mentality.
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However, as far as I’m aware, the only real evidence of this occurring was in Chicago at one point, and it happened with local elections (and, since Obama was from Chicago when he was elected, that’s just more fuel for their ‘logic’).
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A common joking phrase you can hear in/about Chicago is “Vote early, vote often.”
Also fueled by the ‘story’ that when Big Ðìçk Daley was mayor, Chicago once had a 130% voter turnout.
Well, as a good Chicago (area) boy, i’m pretty sure that my great-grandfather is still voting the Machine ticket.
(He owned a saloon in Cicero, which means he was almost certainly tied in…)
The fact alone that a who give’s a rat’s áršë like Bristol Palin is on the show, when it has “Stars” in the title, tells me that they should’ve quit while they were ahead.
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Dancing With the “Celebrities” would be more appropriate, in that Bristol deserve no attention at all.
She seems like a better person than Paris Hilton
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That’s not really say a whole hëll of a lot. I’ve arrested people who are likely better people than Paris Hilton.
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That’s not really saying a whole lot…
Popularity has always trumped talent on this show. People are voting for Bristol for reasons other than her dancing. That is how the producers want it. If only the judges opinion counted, the ratings wouldn’t be as good. In a previous season a rapper named Master P lasted much longer than his dancing warranted while better dancers went home. At least Bristol is working and getting better every week.
I don’t watch DWTS (I prefer So You Think You Can Dance). On SYTYCD, for the first several weeks, the viewer votes determine the bottom 3 couples and the judges then pick the 2 that go. Then, it goes totally to the voting audience.
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One thing I especially like, however, is that they repeatedly state that they are looking for the “favorite dancer” not the “best dancer.”
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I actually feel a little bad for Bristol Palin. She’s gotta know she’s not the best dancer there and she’s gotta know that her high vote totals are based on mom’s supporters trying to make some sort of asinine statement. At some point or another, sooner or later, that kind of thing does start messing with a kid’s mind. If she’s not the type who just wants to go through life being dragged along on mom’s coattails there’s going to be meltdown and a blowup in the future and the press is going to have a field day over analyzing it and playing it up to no end.
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Oh, for the record I have never watched the dámņëd thing. Thought it was a stupid idea from day one.
That presumes a certain level of self-awareness on her part. Given that her entire public persona at this point was likely crafted by a marketing team in a back room three years ago, there’s no way to know if she has that or not. To steal the Paris Hilton example from above, she’s a celebrity entirely because her father bought her some fame, but I think she honestly believes it’s because she’s inherently interesting.
Andy, that seems needlessly cruel with no evidence to back it up. Hate the mom all you want, she’s a politician and you’re allowed to hate her and even feel like a good person doing it. But really, is Bristol such a bad person that she deserves the collateral dmage.
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Ann Althouse, no great Palin fan if I recall correctly, says “Congratulations to the shy, unassuming teenager who didn’t particularly ask to be thrust into the spotlight 2 years ago, who went through an accidental pregnancy in front of millions of people (many of whom didn’t mind insulting her in any manner they found amusing), who didn’t hide herself away in shame, and who tried, again, in front of all of us, to dance. How many of the people who snipe at her, are too big of a pussy to dance anywhere, including on crowded dance floor at a local club?”
To steal the Paris Hilton example from above, she’s a celebrity entirely because her father bought her some fame, but I think she honestly believes it’s because she’s inherently interesting.
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I don’t know if that’s entirely fair, Andy. It’s form following function. It doesn’t have anything to do with inherent interest; people become interested in others for any number of reasons. Bristol Palin didn’t ask for John McCain to give the matter ten minutes thought and select her mother as a VP candidate. Nor do we know her true feelings about her mother’s continued chasing of the limelight.
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For all we know, she sees DWtS as a means of positioning herself to be a more effective “teen advocate.” Maybe she figures that by accruing some genuine celebrity for an achievement other than being her mother’s daughter or getting knocked up, she can do some good with causes that mean something to her. Which makes it all the more sad that some people see her presence as a means to their own end, which is to annoy people who don’t like her mother. If she’s really trying to emerge from her mother’s shadow, all that does is insult her by trying to thrust her back into it.
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As for Paris Hilton, hate on her all you want, but at least she’s been entertaining. Those political shorts she did when McCain was being snide about her–apparently forgetting that her father was a major supporter–were absolutely hilarious. Not to mention that, as I recall, her economic plan made more sense than either Obama’s or McCain’s.
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And then there was her hysterical appearance on “Supernatural,” portraying a demon who assumed her appearance. First of all, Meryl Streep isn’t losing any sleep over her, but her acting really wasn’t bad at all. Second, for those who really dislike her, there was the sight of Sam ultimately pounding on her and then beheading her. And finally, Sam’s snickering, “Dude,you just got waled on by Paris Hilton,” and Dean’s annoyed glare, was one of the best comedy moments of the season.
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Back in October, when Marvel staff was at Bowlmor lanes for the freelancer vs. editorial competition, it was learned that Hilton was bowling a few lanes over. Guys kept trying to sidle within range to see her (not me, I should stress. I get kind of myopic during a bowling competition. She could have been doing a striptease over there and I would have been focusing on whether I should be shooting an inside line because of the lane conditions.) She wound up posing for pictures with some of them. Why is Paris Hilton interesting? Because people are interested in her. “Inherent” is beside the point.
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PAD
@Bill I’m not actually saying anything about who Bristol is as a person, other than that she’s probably been coached by publicists about how to act in public. My only evidence for that is that pretty much every campaign in modern history has had these people running things. It’s true to a lesser extent of most candidates themselves. My point is, we don’t really know much about her because she’s young and hasn’t done much yet. It’s possible she recognizes this time in the spotlight for what it is and is going to use it to be a force for good. It’s also possible she has no idea and is going to coast on this notoriety forever. No one who doesn’t know her personally really knows for sure.
@Peter My only real assertion there is that Bristol and Paris are two people who became famous because their relatives had access to fame, not because of talent or ability. I don’t think you’re disputing that, and it’s a basically neutral statement. I do think people who get famous because they are good at what they do and work hard are perhaps more praiseworthy, but that doesn’t mean these two women have done something villianous. No one would be happier than me if they both used their celebrity to make the world a better place. In Hilton’s case, interviews and such would indicate to me that that’s unlikely. YMMV.
I don’t hate either person. I might think it’s a tad unfair that Hilton has access to film and recording industry when a number of more talented people won’t get that opportunity, but it’s not on my list of the world’s top thousand injustices.
I don’t hate either person.
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Well, as has been pointed out, apparently you do, in fact, hate Bristol Palin. But so do I, it seems, so I wouldn’t be too upset about it.
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I might think it’s a tad unfair that Hilton has access to film and recording industry when a number of more talented people won’t get that opportunity, but it’s not on my list of the world’s top thousand injustices.
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Do you have a printed copy of that list? ‘Cause I’d like to see it. If nothing else, I’d like to know where getting pulled over for going ten miles over the speed limit while other people are hurtling past going twenty or more ranks.
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PAD
I don’t watch Dancing With The Stars, but as it’s been explained to me, the final round is based on the judges’ decisions alone. So Grey might still come out on top. Which is as it should be.
Which is as it should be.
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A liberal conspiracy? 😉
Nah, I just like the narrative of the star of Dirty Dancing winning a quasi-real-life dance contest.
I’m pretty sure you’ve been misinformed. I don’t recall that at all. On “America’s Got Talent,” there are situations where it comes down to the least popular two and the judges decide who is going to stay and who will go on. But “Dancing” is half judges, half viewers.
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PAD
Which is probably why I tend to prefer competitions where the winner(s) are chosen through objective, readily quantifiable means such as sumo where popularity doesn’t enter into it. Either somebody achieves a specific, easily verifiable objective or they don’t. If they do, they win. No subjective fog to get in the way.
In a parallel universe, Bristol Palin realizes what’s happening, and takes a stand against it by removing herself from the competition and refusing to be held up as a poster child for rabid Palinites.
Sorry. The meds haven’t kicked in yet.
And everyone praises her for it…no, they actually call her a “quitter, just like here mom.” who has “no respect for the will of the people” and probably “was just a pawn of the (insert your favorite puppetmaster here)”.
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An argument could be made–not by me–that one should vote for a person showing improvement over a person who starts out good and stays just as good. I mean, if this were about dancing we would skip the stars and just have the pro dancers the stars dance with compete (which really ought to be one of the seasons, since those folks are becoming celebrities themselves.).
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But personally, if I could work up enough interest to get this to a rat’s ášš level, everything I’ve seen shows Grey outclassing the others by a mile, so she would get my vote. But that’s me. Others are welcome to cast their votes entirely on whether or not it makes Sarah Palin happy, which seems to have become a national obsession.
I cannot speak for others, but if Bristol Palin said, “It has come to my attention that people are actively trying to tilt the voting specifically to pìšš øff Democrats. I will not be used as a pawn in this way and therefore am withdrawing,” I would say it was a classy thing to do. I would say that even if Grey had washed out weeks ago and I had no interest in the outcome.
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PAD
True enough, PAD, but she’s not morally obligated to do so. She didn’t ask for folks to vote for her regardless of merit. It’s the folks who set up and maintain the system that allow it to happen who have the obligation to keep it “honest.”
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She’s carrying on as if it didn’t happen. She is trying to let it not affect her, one way or another.
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I’d understand if she did do it; it would give her the excuse to get out of competing with real pros, and get back to the home and family she obviously misses.
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But this is your guilty pleasure; I’ve never watched the show before. And I’ve never voted on it.
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In the end, she’s still a kid to me. She’s still someone who’s never sought fame, never been a professional performer, and she’s doing her dámņëdëšŧ to keep up with real pros. That’s Mary Tyler Moore level of spunk to me.
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Say what you want about the Palin family; they ain’t wimps.
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J.
True enough, PAD, but she’s not morally obligated to do so.
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See, this, right here, is where thread disconnects happen.
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I never said she was morally obligated to do so. I was directly responding to Bill’s contention that, if she dropped out because of the dubious circumstances surrounding her continued presence, she would be “actually called a quitter.” And I was saying that I personally would call her no such thing.
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Turning that into my stating she had a moral obligation to drop out is a complete distortion.
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That’s Mary Tyler Moore level of spunk to me.
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I hate spunk.
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PAD
I should make it clear that I did not mean that “everyone” would call her a quitter, though that certainly could be read into what I said, what with my use of the word “everyone” and all.
PAD, I wasn’t trying to twist what you said. I took what you said as saying that it would have been appropriate for her to withdraw. I agree, but not that it was the only appropriate response — I think what she did was also acceptable.
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And I’ve just spent several minutes trying to think of “spunky” characters you’ve written, and I’m coming up blank. Layla Miller, Entipy, Marlo, She-Hulk, Linda Danvers… all don’t quite fit the “spunky” mold. So dang it, I think I’m gonna have to let that one slide.
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Hey, Robin Lefler!
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Nah, you de-spunked her fairly quickly. Double-dang it…
J.
I took what you said as saying that it would have been appropriate for her to withdraw.
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Then you took it wrong. Again, I was just responding to Bill who contended that she would be derided as a quitter, and I said that I, for one, would see it as a classy move. Everything beyond that is your inference.
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And I’ve just spent several minutes trying to think of “spunky” characters you’ve written, and I’m coming up blank. Layla Miller, Entipy, Marlo, She-Hulk, Linda Danvers… all don’t quite fit the “spunky” mold. So dang it, I think I’m gonna have to let that one slide.
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You realize I was just quoting Lou Grant in response to your Mary Tyler Moore reference, right?
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PAD
Yeah, I recognized the Lou Grant quote immediately. But my argumentative instinct was to immediately cite “spunky” characters you’ve written… and that’s when I realized you don’t write “spunky” characters.So I was thinking that there might have been a hint of truth behind the quote.
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Still think there might be…
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J.
Ah, Bristol Palin: the underage unwed mother face of the abstinence-only party. Gotta love irony…
As for DANCING WITH THE STARS, I don’t watch it despite the amazingly sexy costumes and moves (for example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxupuUimByY ) — and the fact that the celebrities aren’t coasting but doing a lot of hard work. The main problem is, as PAD pointed out, that it’s a popularity contest more than a talent contest. I’m told that a season or two back Melanie Brown (formerly Scary Spice) was a terrific dancer but came off a little cold, even scary; conversely, Marie Osmond was a pretty weak dancer, but she seemed very sweet and endured the death of her mother while on the show — so Osmond lasted a lot longer than Brown. Which is fine, if you ignore the first word in the title of the show.
As for the “controversy” over Republicans voting for Palin simply because of who she is, remember: This show is based on voting, not why people vote the way they do. Voting for Palin just because she’s Republican is as valid as voting for Grey because she was in DIRTY DANCING.
Gotta love irony…
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It turns out her sister Willow is potentially a little festering ball of hate, too, based on a Facebook exchange that Bristol apologized for the other night.
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Such a sweet child…
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http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2010/11/17/16183031.html
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Not sure that’s being a “a little festering ball of hate” as much as it’s being stuck in a fish bowl status family and that turning into a pressure cooker for her. It certainly can’t be helped by her mom trying to prove what an idiot she really is as often as she likes to do.
ZOMG! How dare a juvenile act like a juvenile! How dare a sophomore do such sophomoric things? Teh scandal!
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Bristol Palin is unique on this show. She’s the only one who is not a trained performer, who had never sought fame. She was working in a dermatologist’s office when she got the call. She’s got no business on a show like this…
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…except as a proxy for the viewers, who sure as hëll aren’t celebrities either.
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In that context, she’s doing great. As noted, she’s gotten better and better — and even sucked up the first few weeks of having the show crap on her mother (the Sarah Palin-style lookalike outfit that got torn off to “Momma Told Me Not To Come,” the second week’s “You Can’t Hurry Love” with the references to “my momma said” leading into each chorus). Last night, she was up against a rapper and Disney child star, a singer and dancer, and an actress/dancer — and she didn’t quit or back down or whine about the unfairness.
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As far as the abstinence thing… I recall a lot of people criticizing the Catholic Church for its sexual mores, saying that celibate priests have no business meddling in something they’ve absented themselves from. Here’s a woman who can actually say “yeah, I know the temptation, and I’m living every day with the consequences. I wouldn’t trade my son for anything, but my whole life suddenly changed from anything I ever wanted or planned on because of that choice. Learn from my mistakes.”
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Note to self: don’t listen to alcoholics on the dangers of booze. Ex-smokers can just STFU about cigarettes. We can stop sentencing drunk drivers to talk at high schools. People with AIDS can take their “safe sex” talk and stick it up their… well, maybe I won’t go there. (Apparently they did.) (Dammit, I almost made it…)
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J.
Re: Bristol Palin never having sought fame. Um, wasn’t there talk about her and her former fiance wanting a reality show?
But you know, it IS Dancing with the STARS and I think it’s legitimate that personality and likability come into play. I’d rather dance with someone I like even if they are a mediocre dancer than someone who performs beautifully and who I’d secretly like to see pirouette off the side of a crocodile pit.
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If she has been improving and coming off as a nice kid I guess one can forgive people voting for her. If she takes it all the way I think it will be semi bogus but no big deal in any scheme of things.
If she has been improving and coming off as a nice kid I guess one can forgive people voting for her.
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I’m not sure how some people exploiting a failing in the voting system in order to politicize it (and I have to think that doing so in order to pìšš øff Democrats qualifies) fits into that world view. And I think it’s unfair that more talented performers are being thrown under the bus in order to accommodate some people’s political agendas.
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PAD
me-If she has been improving and coming off as a nice kid I guess one can forgive people voting for her.
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PAD-I’m not sure how some people exploiting a failing in the voting system in order to politicize it (and I have to think that doing so in order to pìšš øff Democrats qualifies) fits into that world view.
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Neither do I. I was just saying that I can see people voting for her based on what is, too me, anyway, a pretty weak reason. I have no idea how much of the votes for her are based on her skills, improvement, a desire to stick it too Tina Fey, cheating, or the prophesy of The One Who Will Bring Balance to the Force.
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My own hunch is that she is benefiting big time from the fact that the people who love her mom have learned very well how to use social networking to get results, as was shown far more significantly on November 4. I have no idea whether the cheating has been enough to make a difference and since CBS apparently has no desire to control that we will probably never know.
I have the faint hope that someday people will learn to make accurate analogies….
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Let’s see…Bristol Palin as Sarah Palin’s proof that abstinence-only education works is as to…
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Pregnant Rhythm method advocates claiming that their method works much better than condoms ….even though it has a higher failure rate…and they are the proof.
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Note to Jay Tea…Beware of trusting current alcholics on strategies for *quitting* booze (although the Palin family could give lessons on quitting in general; they could tour with Ross Perot) current smokers can just STFU up about how they can “quit any time they want.” People who contracted AIDS through unsafe sex practices and continue practicing them can just take their “safe sex” talk and stick it up their…oh I get it, AIDS=Gay and Gay=AIDS. That’s some great Regan-era thinking. No wonder your educational standards are so low.
I’ve read that in the US, the so-called “Red States” have the highest numbers of teen pregnancies, abortions, and divorces.
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I pity religious conservatives. They’re trapped in a vicious circle. Refuse to take a more realistic view of sex -> watch their unprepared kids make messes -> blame it on modern moral degeneracy -> become even bigger prudes -> rinse and repeat.
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Bristol Palin is simply the object lesson.
Since most “red” and “blue” states are actually purple–the electorate is pretty well divided–it is very foolish to assume that a state that voted for Obama can therefore be used to make a general statement on what Obama voters are like. Ditto McCain states.
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One would have to, at the very least, prove that it is the “red” voters in those states who are experiencing teen pregnancies, abortions, and divorces before making such a generalization.
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Correlation is not causation. The reality based community needs to get more reality based. Some of the “data” I have seen on red vs blue states has been laughably dumb and it amazes me that the folks who thought them up–well educated people who have a knowledge of statistics that leaves me very much in the dust–somehow missed some obvious explanations in their quest to make some overreaching (and always self indulgent) conclusions.
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Yeah, I’ve always hated that stupid Red/Blue map. It’s such a fraud and a lie. Several universities and groups have created the purple maps that show a much more honest picture of the states. There are very, very, very few areas that are red or blue and a lot that are pure purple.
Ah, if only dancing with the stars meant the same thing as sleeping with the fishes.
I am oddly reminded of an old Simpsons episode about Troy McClure (you might remember him from such …..”
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After an earlier mention about “that incident at the aquarium” one of the mobsters sees Troy walk by and turns to Tony and says I thought you said Troy Mcclure was dead? Tony replies, “No, I said, ‘He sleeps with the fishes.'”
In fairness to Bristol, she has expressed shock that she’s still on the show as well a desire to go home. At least this what my wife tells me. When the show comes on, I usually go play games on my comp until Castle comes on.
Bristol has been working hard. In mid-season, she was kinda coasting for a couple of weeks (the monkey dance!) and was really surprised that she kept not being sent home. For the last couple of weeks, however, she has owned up, and realized that if her fans are going to keep her in the contest, she needs to perform as though she deserves to be there, and she has.
Now, Brandy was very talented, but she acted like she knew it. There wasn’t a whole lot of humility there, and that often turns the fans off. Jennifer is talented, knows it, but still reflects that amazement that she is still in the contest. Kyle is fun, and has the Disney channel fanbase that has proven to be a big voting block over the years in his corner.
Personally, I think Bristol should have gone home. I didn’t vote for her. Others did, so she is still there!
Charlie
For what it’s worth, the DWTS website has includes a detailed explanation of how voting works and how judges’ scores are combined with the popular vote:
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http://abc.go.com/shows/dancing-with-the-stars/about-voting
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It looks like final rankings are reached by combining a the share of points received by the judges with the share received from the public vote. Which would seem to indicate that if one believes there’s a significant Palin-voting block, one way to counter it would be to mount a campaign to vote for *anyone else.* That is, increasing the total number of votes cast overall would reduce the share of those votes Bristol Palin receives (assuming, for the moment, that the number of votes cast for her is reasonably stable) thus reducing the impact of the public vote for her.
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Were I to vote, I think I’d go for Kyle Massey, but y’all can vote your conscience 😉
PAD, seriously, is this what you’ve reduced your political ramblings to? You’re dearly hoping that Bristol doesn’t win? Who cares? This is tired “reality” show; I’m sure you have other things to concern yourself with. But the thought that the GOP is lining up behind Palin to keep her on the show and appease her mom is, quite simply, ludicrous. Another vast right-wing conspiracy? Really? You’ve been strangely politically-quiet since the Democrats had their hats handed to them on Election Day. This is what’s called grasping at straws.
I have to say that I am a HUGE fan of your work. But I wish you would focus more on that work in these writings and less on your political stance.
PAD, seriously, is this what you’ve reduced your political ramblings to?
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I write about what interests me and what I’m thinking about at the time. Always have. Not quite sure why you’re so offended by this.
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You’re dearly hoping that Bristol doesn’t win? Who cares?
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No, I’m hoping Jennifer Grey wins, which is a very different thing. If Grey had been voted out before, I’d have stopped watching and not cared whether Palin wins or not.
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This is tired “reality” show; I’m sure you have other things to concern yourself with.
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See, whereas I would think that people who actively dislike my political views would have other things to do than show up and castigate me for them. Yet apparently they never seem to.
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But the thought that the GOP is lining up behind Palin to keep her on the show and appease her mom is, quite simply, ludicrous.
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I agree; then again, I didn’t use the word “appease.” You did.
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Another vast right-wing conspiracy? Really?
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No, not really. Simply an observation based on a poll that puts the show at #9 on the GOP list of favorite shows. That, combined with her continued presence that surprises even her, and you don’t have to be Bernoulli to do the math on this one. And that doesn’t even count the rather compelling link up thread from Jezebel.
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You’ve been strangely politically-quiet since the Democrats had their hats handed to them on Election Day. This is what’s called grasping at straws.
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I’m pretty sure I haven’t been more or less quiet than usual.
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I have to say that I am a HUGE fan of your work. But I wish you would focus more on that work in these writings and less on your political stance.
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Whereas *I* wish that some people didn’t have the presumption to tell me what I should focus on. Plus, you just got done being snotty because you claim I’ve been posting less about my political views, so…
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PAD
Why is it that people who disagree with Peter’s statements on politics presume to tell him what to talk about on his own blog.
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Alan. It’s his blog. His property. He pays for it. He can talk about whatever he wants. If you simply don’t like his politically-oriented blog posts, and prefer only the ones in which he discusses his work, why don’t you simply make a point of skipping over the former and reading only the latter? Is something preventing you from doing so? Are you in any way forced to read the latter? What is it that prevents you from seeing how ridiculous it is to instead suggest that you should tell someone what to talk about on their own property?
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*sigh*
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I have a reply to Alan stuck in the filter (likely due to the number of links.) Can the powers that be give it a little kick please?
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“But the thought that the GOP is lining up behind Palin to keep her on the show…”
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Vote Now for Bristol Palin
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By Adrienne Ross
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Bristol Palin did her thing tonight with her dance partner, Mark Ballas, on the season premiere of Dancing with the Stars. Only a few minutes remain to cast your vote for Team Ballin via text or phone.
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You can call or text (AT&T customers only) until 10:30 p.m. Eastern at 800-868-3407. According to ABC, online voting at abc.com will be open until 11 a.m. Eastern the next day, but don’t count on that. Do it NOW.
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You get 12 votes, so take advantage of each of them. It’s been two years since you’ve voted for a Palin. It’s time; go for it!
http://www.conservatives4palin.com/2010/09/vote-now-for-bristol-palin.html
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“Remember, it is up to all of you out there!!! YOU can help her get through to next week. Make sure you watch the show and VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!!! While it is vital that you call 1-800-868-3407 with as many phones as you have, voting multiple times, it is just as vital that you vote online at abc.com and if AT&T is your cellular carrier, text your votes to 3407”
http://www.conservativegirlwithavoice.com/2010/11/its-monday-which-means-its-bristol.html
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Remember: “Operation Bristol” is tonight! Practice voting for a Palin at http://www.abc.go.com and call 800-868-3407.
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http://tammybruce.com/?s=bristol
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The season is down to the few final weeks. Please tune in to ABC and vote for Bristol and Mark. This week they will dance the Waltz and the Paso Doble.
http://servantsheartconservative.wordpress.com/2010/11/15/bristol-is-in-the-home-stretch-on-dwts/
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Here’s a hint: They don’t have to be VALID email addresses to register them with ABC.com, there is apparently no validation process. The just have to be formatted like a valid email address, and you must use a valid zip code and a birthdate that makes you old enough to vote. I’m voting like a democrat, all night long…
http://hillbuzz.org/2010/11/15/bristol-palin-dancing-with-the-stars-watch-thread-4/#comment-315550
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FReep DWTS! Make liberal heads explode and vote for Bristol Palin tonight, you don’t need to watch.
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Keep calling 1-800-868-3407 between 8-10:30 EST until they tell you to stop. And you can vote on every line you have, cell, fax and land line.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2623885/posts
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I could fill this post out with about a hundred more just like them. Yeah, some would be obscure blogs but others would be much, much less so. Sadly for this girl there is a small army of idiots out there who see her as a pawn in their silly ášš game. They figure that she’s a tool to use to somehow stick it to “the other side” and that’s all she’s good for to them.
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Seriously, do you think these people, especially the ones making it clear that they don’t watch and that you don’t even need to watch to vote, would actually give a dámņ if her mom was Sarah Palin?
So is he being strangely quiet or would you rather he not do any politics at all? Ðámņëd if he does, dámņëd if he doesn’t.
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Jeeze! Let the guy write about what ever he wants to! Be thankful we get the chance to interact with a writer we like. How many people get that opportunity? If you don’t like his politics you can A-argue about it. That can be fun unless your only definition of fun is to get him to admit defeat and send a check to the RNC, or B-ignore it.
I’ve only seen glimpses of this show (while waiting for LOST). But surely the skimpy outfits the women wear should be scaring off anyone who’s of a conservative religious bent. (While politically liberal, I am of that mindset and don’t watch such things, even if I don’t care if others do.)
Though that should include Sarah Palin’s daughter, shouldn’t it?
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“But surely the skimpy outfits the women wear should be scaring off anyone who’s of a conservative religious bent. (While politically liberal, I am of that mindset and don’t watch such things, even if I don’t care if others do.)
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Though that should include Sarah Palin’s daughter, shouldn’t it?”
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Back in the early to mid 90s I picked up extra cash working weekends as a bouncer on the door of a strip club. In Virginia you couldn’t (and I believe still can’t) go full nude where you sell alcohol, but you could still have the girls strip down to flesh colored G-strings and pasties. The vast majority of the people coming into the place (whenever politics where being discussed at a table) were Conservatives and I often saw a lot of leftover Bush/Quayle bumper stickers in the parking lots most weekends when I came in to work.
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That’s always been my biggest issue with the most moralizing members of the Republican Party and the most moralizing Conservatives in general. They’re idea of how things should be is for you to do as the preach and not do as they do.
I dunno, isn’t it just as likely, if not more so, that a person objecting to “skimpy outfits” on women is going to be a far-left prude? You know, “yadda yadda objectifying women yadda yadda”.
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And the hypocrisy charge still fits since they are the ones who are supposedly for freedom of choice and open minded and tolerant and all manner of things that sound good on paper but require the ability to live in a world where people don’t agree with you and that’s ok, which is a world they hate, hate, hate.
In the interests of accuracy Bill, the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund has to deal with people walking into comic stores all of the time and complaining of the skimpiness of super-hero costumes, then threatening to call the cops and claim that the store sells obscenity and pornography.
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They have the documented quotes all over their websites and case files of cops who think that they are protecting their towns from, and I kid you not, “Satan” when they try to ban comic books. Does that sound like a leftist or a right-wing conservative to you? Which groups do a better job protecting the views of those they disagree with, those “evil athiest leftist liberals” who support the ACLU (even when they protect Neo-Nazis rights, and those guys would gladly kill me)or the group that fined a Network heavily for a nipple flash? (far more heavily than a mine owner was fined for poor safety standards that led to actual deaths. There’s some pro-life ethics for ya.)
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I gotta say, your hypothetical example of a far-left prude sounds like a strwaman compared to the real thing.
Dammit, I hate it when I check for typos and omissions and they still go through. That was supposed to read “Which groups do a better job protecting the views of those they disagree with, those “evil athiest leftist liberals” *such as me* who support the ACLU (even when they protect Neo-Nazis rights, and those guys would gladly kill me)…”
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Nothing to see here folks. Move along…nothing to see…continue with your regularly scheduled programs and ignore the guy behind the curtain who keeps trying to put white-out on his already posted comments..nothing to see…
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“I dunno, isn’t it just as likely, if not more so, that a person objecting to “skimpy outfits” on women is going to be a far-left prude? You know, “yadda yadda objectifying women yadda yadda”.”
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I don’t think so. I’ve seen and met far more people who were the Prudish Conservative Right than I have far-Left prudes throwing the “objectifying women” thing around. And I’ve certainly met far more Conservative “prudes” engaging in activities that they publically condemn than I have Liberal prudes acting like equal hypocrites.
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They’re out there, but I don’t think that their numbers are quite that equal.
We are all shaped by the events in our own lives, Jonathon. For me, I have never had much problem with conservatives trying to shut me down and those that have where pretty easily ignored. Conversely, when attacks have come from the left they have been, in my estimation, more viscous, dangerous, and difficult to fight. Admittedly, the vast majority of this has been in the college campus setting where conservatives are, as a general rule, not in a position of enough power to flex their muscles inappropriately, so my results may be skewed.
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I know a lot of people who say they became liberals when they went to college. For me it was just the opposite. Don’t know if it was the times or just some quirk of nature.
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But the folks who gave us šhìŧ about running a Russ Meyer film? Liberals. The campus store selling Playboy? Liberals. Sneers at the girl who talked about competing in beauty pageants? Liberals.
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Again, I suppose it could be argued that one consequence of having so many liberal friends (and I’d say my liberal friends outnumber my conservative ones by a good percentage) is that this also increases the likelihood that I’ll be hearing something stupid from that side. All granted. But I think it would be very very foolish to think that the attacks on free speech or even just dressing any dámņ way you want will be coming from one side. Sets you up for a real surprise.
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(for example, I assume the group that fined a network heavily refers to the FCC. They fined CBS a ridiculous $500,000. The democrats in congress responded to this outrage by ensuring that it would never happen again…by supporting, by about a 4 to 1 ratio, the Broadcast Decency Enforcement Act of 2005, which allowed the FCC to increase their penalties for such incidents by more than tenfold. Sure, republicans were even worse, but if you think that the left has much interest in allowing dissent you just aren’t paying attention.)
I dunno, isn’t it just as likely, if not more so, that a person objecting to “skimpy outfits” on women is going to be a far-left prude? You know, “yadda yadda objectifying women yadda yadda”.
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You won’t see me defending liberals from charges of being just as uptight as conservatives. They just come at it from different reasons: Conservatives will declare that skimpy outfits are–for instance–immodest and sinful and offends their sensibilities. Favorite card to play: It will damage the children.
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Liberals will typically object on broader grounds, declaring that–as you say–it objectifies women. Favorite card to play: It will damage society.
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The result is usually the same. Actually, Conservatives tend to be more honest, shouting that they themselves are offended, as opposed to Liberals who will typically express outrage on behalf of someone else.
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PAD
Bill, I’m willing to take your points about the liberals you knew as given. Personally, as a leftist liberal it bothers the hëll out of me when I encounter someone who holds to most of my beliefs-and then exercises the “disagree by screaming one’s head off” school of argument, so I’m angry with “my side” about that. I’m also pìššëd øff when I go to a so called “peace and justice center” that has posters excoriating Israel for its actions, and then turns a blind eye to Palestinian violence, usually in tandem with the screaming school of deabte. So fine, my side of the aisle has some serious moral lapses.
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But I disagree that liberals are the equals of censors on the right, or worse. Check out most of the challenges to books in libraries on the Banned books website. Show me the right-wing equivalent of a group such as Amnesty International of the ACLU that would spend serious time, effort, and money defending people whose views they disagree with (the closest I can think of would be the Libertarians, fiscally conservative but not socially.) Complaints aren’t the same as censorship attempts.
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And yeah, I really hate how often the Democrats go along with this, right down to the Communications Decency Act passed by a majority Republican Congress and signed into law by Bill Clinton.
Dammit, that was supposed to be “group such as Amnesty International *or* the ACLU …”
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Where’s the dámņ Electronic whiteout?
You’re the kind of far left liberal I like being friends with, Jonathon. 🙂
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It’s probably wiser for those of us who worry about these things to worry less about who is doing it and worry more about how best to stop them.
Many years ago – forty-five, my Ghod – two members of our (Episcopalian) congregation in rural South Carolina decided that they wanted to open a liquor store in Mauldin, which didn’t have one. (In fact, i think the nearest was in Greenville itself, twenty or so miles away.)
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Long story short, all hëll broke loose – thundering denunciations from the pulpit in Baptist churches, petitions, whispering campaigns, anonymous letters to Johnny’s supervisors at the Post Office…
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But they stuck to their guns, and, no real surprise, they got the license.
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Shortly after their targets went up (at the time, SC liquor stores had to display big red disk symbols on the store front), one of the main leaders of the vocal opposition (an important deacon or whatever they were calling it at one of the big Baptist churches) caught Johnny as he was delivering his mail (rural route) and said that, hey, let’s let bygones be bygones and I couldn’t afford to be seen at the store, but if I leave the money in the mailbox, could you drop off a half-pint every week or so…
“It’s probably wiser for those of us who worry about these things to worry less about who is doing it and worry more about how best to stop them.”
Unfortunately, I believe that it is necessary to make clear which groups initiate most censorship attempts, which groups support them, and which groups simply let it happen in order to stop them. One of the many reasons I wish more voters would abandon the Democrats and the Republicans for the Greens and the Libertarians, but I’ve harped on that plenty in the past and it’s not about to happen anytime soon.
Only in the world of your prejudices, Simon…
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J.
Only in the world of your prejudices, Simon…
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You mean the prejudices when the GOP claims to be the party of family values and morality?
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Ok, whatever.
(shrug) Some do, Craig. I think they’re fools for doing so, because it enables folks like you to point to the slightest failure of perfection and exclude everything else they say or do.
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On the other hand, I’ve always liked the Democrats’ “we’re not going to pretend to be anything but immoral swine and vermin, so when we get caught acting like it, at least we can’t be called hypocrites.” There’s a refreshing honesty in that sort of thing.
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BTW, how did that whole “most ethical House EVAH!!!!” under Madam Speaker work out?
J.
No, most liberals simply don’t think there is anything immoral with any sort of sexuality among consenting adults. So it’s not the same as admiting to being immoral. It’s just different standards.
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Granted, the fact that most conservatives in the US still aren’t crazy enough to object to sexy costumes and dance is a good thing in my book.
because it enables folks like you to point to the slightest failure of perfection and exclude everything else they say or do.
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When a party’s platform is built on (nutshell here) “don’t give anything to gays, since they’re immoral” and similar concepts, and then one of the most vocal supporters of said policy is ‘outed’, you deserve to have your failure pointed out.
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And this keeps happening again and again and again to those on the Right.
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The Democrats generally don’t run campaigns on such things, thus they don’t get called out on it. Which makes perfect sense to me, but apparently not to you.
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But then, it’s silly on your part to equate “not running on a campaign of morality” (and I was talking specifically about the whole family values, anti-gay stuff here, let’s not forget) means that Dems are immoral.
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BTW, how did that whole “most ethical House EVAH!!!!” under Madam Speaker work out?
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Utter failure, as expected. Politicians of all stripes tend to be unethical by nature. See: freshman GOP Congressman whining about not immediately being able to get the gov’t health care that he railed again in his campaign.
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“Politicians of all stripes tend to be unethical by nature. See: freshman GOP Congressman whining about not immediately being able to get the gov’t health care that he railed again in his campaign.”
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Craig, don’t lie. He campaigned against poor people who can’t afford health care and people who are usually denied getting health care insurance from being able to obtain it. He never campaigned against wealthy Maryland physicians who can afford their own health insurance being given government health insurance. And, of course, like the spoiled ruling class of old he has a major hissy when he doesn’t get his way or get what he thinks someone of his privilege and status deserves.
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And in other political news sort of related to the thread’s subject matter…
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Murkowski wins! Palin privately petulant and bìŧçhÿ over her pet candidate not winning and letting her have her win in the personal grudge against the Murkowski family that she put ahead of the people of Alaska.
I believe votefortheworst.com also pulls double duty for DWTS when Idol isn’t on. But, like Idol, all those votes for popular performers prematurely booted off have to go somewhere, so I hope they go to either Jennifer or Kyle next week. Besides, as we all know, nobody puts Baby, I mean, Jennifer Grey in a corner!
(Yes, I occasionally watch DWTS. Sue me.)
Somehow, this discussion of skimpy outfits reminds me of the cycle described on THE SIMPSONS, described by Kent Brockman (I forget the episode) as Fox running prurient and scandalous shows, which Fox News reports on with outrage, which gives money to Fox News, which gets put into making more prurient and scandalous shows on Fox, which Fox News reports on with outrage…
As for liberals, conservatives, et al objecting to skimpy outfits, comic book artist (and frequent illustrator of the female form in skimpy outfit) Adam Hughes said in the introduction to DC COMICS COVERGIRLS that the One Undeniable Truth is: Sex sells. And you know what? It sells across the board, not to suspicious-looking men in long raincoats, or to one group or the other, but to the vocally religious and the privately athiestic, the conservatives and the liberals, men and women, and so on. Are there those who practice what they preach? I’m sure there are. I’m also sure the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue doesn’t sell so well because it has the best articles for the year. And I’m sure DANCING WITH THE STARS wouldn’t be as big a hit if the dancers were dressed in less revealing clothes. Remember what Hughes said…
Is it a dance show or a popularity contest? Being one of three couples left – your dancing *better* be spectacular.
If Bristol wins, it won’t be for her ‘talent’.
Since this is a political thread, and I don’t want to revive a dead thread, I thought I’d post this here, in case anybody has forgotten about it:
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The mosque being fought against in Tennessee (wait, this was happening somewhere other than “at Ground Zero”!?):
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101117/ap_on_re_us/us_tennessee_mosque
I remember in the summer 2004 when GW Bush had a fund raising dinner here in Columbus. One of the speakers was the man who runs the company that handles the electronic voting booths used in Ohio.
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During the dinner, this man (whose name eludes me) made a comment that was reported in the paper. He guaranteed that Bush would have the state of Ohio on his side come election day.
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In the weeks following, this man did some public backpedaling. He said that his comment was intended to show support, enthusiasm, and wishful thinking. And, that the media was twisting his words by claiming it was an admission of vote tampering.
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Come November, 2004, the state of Ohio did, indeed, support GWB’s reelection.
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I mention this because while I was reading the Tea Party’s accusations of ballot box stuffing and voter fraud on the side of the Democrats, I couldn’t help but remember that both of GW’s elections involved suspicious vote counting and ballot controversy.
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Theno
Personally in that case I suspect he really WAS just displaying support and enthusiasm. But he should have admitted that the media didn’t twist his words; instead they actually listened to what he said. And he should have realized that some random guy saying “I guarantee Bush will win Ohio” is a very different thing–easily viewed as enthusiastic hyperbole–from the manufacturer of voting booths saying it, and that it was a dumb ášš thing for him to say.
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PAD
you could point to this reply as Prima facie evidence against anyone who accuses you of unthinking liberal bias. Not that anyone making that accusation is likely to change their mind, evidence be dámņëd.
You’re right, Bill. It won’t convince them. We’ve seen repeated evidence of that mindset on this board. Actually, research has shown that when people hold a deeply entrenched opinion, when they’re then provided evidence to the contrary–no matter how indisputable–oftentimes they will reject the evidence and double down on the belief.
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PAD
The funny thing was that a lot of people I know, liberals and conservatives, were totally willing to accuse the media of taking a statement out of context and making an issue out of nothing.
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Up until the point he claimed he never said it (reporters had audio recordings of it) and that his words were twisted (I don’t have a quote, but it was word-for-word at the time.)
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It was then that I started to wonder, “Is he protesting too much?”
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If he had simply said, “Oh, come on, you all know what I meant.” Or, said, “Given my position, it was an ill advised way to show support,” I’d have let it go and probably never thought about it again.
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But, when the Tea Party and other conservatives were accusing Acorn of registering phony voters, and used as their proof the registration forms that Acorn turned in with a flag, “these are fake,” that situation echoed in my head. And, when I read the requests to multiple vote for DWTS, it reminded me again.
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Theno
DWTS (here in Australia) isn’t really a popularity contest. It’s a money making exercise. xx cents a call anyone?
That said, one of the latest batch did actually choose to leave the show of his own volition when it became obvious that was only the popular vote that was keeping him there. I thought it was pretty classy.
PAD, I thought you ought to know that you’re now officially a ‘hater’:
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http://theclicker.todayshow.com/_news/2010/11/18/5488345-bristol-claims-haters-are-trying-to-destroy-her
Apparently so. Which is impressive considering that, had Jennifer Grey gone out, I would simply be indifferent.
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I really dont’ think she gets it. Whatever annoyance I feel, at least, isn’t remotely directed at her. It’s the people who have chosen to politicize her involvement by embarking on a campaign designed simply to annoy people who don’t share their political views.
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PAD
I really don’t think PAD was the hater she’s talking about. Look at the comments on some of the articles. Death threats, cussing, horrible, horrible filthy names people are calling her. Total hate filled rants attacking her personally.
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I don’t think a rational person would group in PAD’s questioning of the process with the hate speach coming from some people. Course, it would be somewhat appropriate considering that there are folks who paint the whole TEA party with the worst (minority) of their members.
How sad that anyone would pull something like this. Though speaking as a professional IT person i think abc should have better safeguards in place. I’m surprised that someone hasn’t simply written a computer program to submit huge numbers of votes.
Perhaps i should write such a program and post it somewhere, let all the whackos get áhøld of it and reveal what a sham the voting system really is…
On an unrelated topic, here’s a little hope towards the return of the Adventurer’s Club at Disney. They don’t yet plan to bring it back, but it’s a step in the right direction.
http://www.wesh.com/themeparks/25838148/detail.html
There was an interesting potential fallout of Bristol’s run on DWTS today on Andrew Sullivan’s blog:
If a lot of viewers are tuning in only because of the Palin connection, most will presumably not be back next season. And if a lot of viewers are tuning out because of distaste at how things are proceeding, many will not be back next season. (Give people the chance to get hooked on something else and you’ve lost them.) The longer this goes on, the more nails may be getting pounded into the shows coffin.
I didn’t read the blog in question, but if your summary is accurate, then Mr. Sullivan is just flat-out wrong. The study that revealed that DWtS is a popular Republican TV show was a long-term study, not a recent development. So they were already tuning in before Bristol showed up. As for viewers tuning out next season, what happens this season–I predict–will have no impact on it. If next year’s cast are people that viewers want to see, then they’ll tune in. If not, they won’t. It’s really no more involved than that.
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PAD
Absolutely agree with you on this point, PAD. Last season, I tuned in to watch Kate Gosselin. (And, I have to say that my desire to see her crash and burn was pretty well satisfied.) This season, I tuned in to watch Jennifer Grey. We’ll see if there’s anyone I want to watch compete next season.
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The only thing that this situation might do is encourage the producers of the show to invite more “controversial” celebrities on in future seasons. Which may not be a bad thing.
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Me? I’m holding out for those show-stopping words, “Dancing the Tango – Ed Schultz and his partner, Rush Limbaugh.” If that ever happens, I will be glued to my TV. Even if the dancing came off, the rehearsal interviews would be a gas.
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Geez Tim, are you sure you’re not thinking of Celebrity UFC?
Which Limbaugh would sign on for thinking it was Ultimate Fried Chicken…
Eddie’s not exactly Mr. Skinny either, Sean…
This is also true. I can see the promos for it–“The matchup that all the 16X9 TVs were MADE for…”
LOL!!!! Good one!
Looks like ABC is responding to the stories about multiple votes:
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2010/11/18/2010-11-18_dancing_with_the_stars_voting_system_is_secure_against_multiple_votes_fraud_abc_.html?r=entertainment
Basically they say they’re only counting votes from unique IP addresses. But if that is true it means that multiple people in the same household will be unable to vote.
Look at it this way: Republicans voting for DWTS is the only thing they can vote on anymore that won’t be reversed by a Federal Judge within two weeks…
Really? Huh. I wasn’t aware that a Federal Judge had reversed the recent shellacking that the Republicans gave the Dems at the polls in the mid-terms. Those Republican votes are still resounding through the political landscape as far as I know. 🙂
In March, for my job, I had to move to here, Wichita. The Wichita Eagle has a feature called “Opinion Line” where you can email whatever’s on your mind, and it may be printed anonymously in in the paper. It is a feature I’ve used (and misused) several times. This morning, I got on it and submitted a new thought: I’ve never watched “Dancing with the Stars,” but I’m sure Bristol Palin is as good a dancer as her mother was a governor.
I look forward to the debate over what that means.
Don’t really watch the show, but my wife and youngest daughter do, so I’ve caught enough of it as I pass through the living room to definitely say Brandy was a better dancer, but I was totally okay with her leaving before Bristol.
The sense of entitlement she exuded was simply obnoxious. She was way overdue for a snap back to reality, IMO.
Steve, that’s kind of how I felt about it. Brandy is obviously the better dancer, but I personally didn’t like her attitude a lot of the time. Assuming that the votes for Bristol were sincere, people may have been reacting negatively to Brandy’s attitude.
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Should it be based strictly on dancing? My family thinks so, but if you wanted that, then why have the audience vote? That practically guarantees that the dancing will only be part of the reason people vote for one person over another. Personality, hair color, body type, and yes, politics, may also be considerations.
With regard to the supposed glitch which allows voters to register votes using faked e-mail addresses, DWTS Executive Producer Conrad Green has stated that their system identifies the IP address of computers sending votes, even if from multiple e-mail addresses, and wipes out duplicate votes:
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http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2010/11/18/2010-11-18_dancing_with_the_stars_voting_system_is_secure_against_multiple_votes_fraud_abc_.html
So some of these people have wasted hours of their lives thinking they were beating the system? Awesome! 😀
It also means that a lot of the whining and hand wringing by the Palin haters has been for nothing. Regardless of the motive behind the votes for Bristol, she apparently is hanging in the contest fair and square without anyone cheating on her behalf.
Interesting development this morning. DWTS on lockdown because someone mailed Bristol some unidentified white powder. Any comments? First someone shooting out their TV and now this. It’s shocking that a fluff TV show could illicit such a reaction just because someone doesn’t like the mother of one of the people on it.
Yeah, remember when it was supposed to be the Palin supporters that were going to be committing acts of violence due to her use of “lock and load”?
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Presumably the people who were ready to see Palin sued over any such acts are now poring over anti-Palin comments from pundits to see if any potential lawsuits can be filed.
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Not a huge Palin fan. I do not hope she gets the nomination for president–we need some dull competence at this point–but the hate directed at the mere mention of her name takes me by shock at times. I’m talking about otherwise decent people who are really in no position to do this just getting livid and crazy. A woman who’s own daughter had two kids out of wedlock calling Bristol a whørë, that kind of thing. It’s nuts.
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If I had to pick one politician who is a likely target for assassination it would be her. And the reaction, while vastly one of shock and disapproval, would be peppered with those who had no compunction against expressing either approval or paranoid conspiracy theories (“She tried to stage a fake assassination and it went wrong!”)
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Jeeze, was it just a few years ago this woman was, in the opinion of all the smart folks, showing her stupidity and throwing away any and all chance at relevancy by resigning at governor of Alaska? Unless her ultimate goal is to actually become president, that move was pure brilliance and more balls than anyone in Washington has (with the possible exception of Hillary, according to Carville.). Kind of an amazing story, regardless of your feelings on the politics.
Agreed, Bill. Agreed.
If I had to pick one politician who is a likely target for assassination it would be her.
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Thanks, Bill, for giving me my Laugh at the Absurd Comment of the Day moment.
Really? Why? Her incredible popularity makes it too unlikely?
Anything is possible, but your comment seems to indicate that you consider Palin the most likely person to be a target.
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Which means you’ve forgotten who’s in the White House: that dámņ Communist Muslim (insert other descriptions here) negro, Obama.
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Craig, he said “likely target” and not the most likely or only likely target. The simple fact is that she is a very high profile and polarizing figure and that makes her a very “likely target.”
Jerry, he said “if I had to pick one”.
Well–she’s at least as hated, and has less secret security guys around her. She makes lots of appearances at the sort of rallies that do not look to have been organized by seasoned pros. Anyone with the rent money can move in next to her.
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The only disadvantage Obama has in the assassination game is that killing him is a much bigger prize for all enemies foreign and domestic.
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Perhaps I should amend it to most likely successful target. I mean, people are shooting their TVs and reportedly sending white powder in envelopes to places where Palins have been reported. You can’t seriously suggest she is not attracting some crazies. I know a lot of folks who dislike the president but it is mostly his policies they pick on–with the anti-palins it seems to be more of the “the mere sight of her or the sound of her @#$&ing voice make me want to (insert random action of choice here). And it’s the people who inspire unreasonable hate that I would think are the most likely to get whacked.
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not suggesting anyone should not dislike Palin, hëll, hate her all you want if it makes you feel good. I’m not even suggesting anyone would feel personally responsible if some nut shoots her instead of his TV. I would suggest that the sort of visceral hate that Palin inspires in some (and any similar unthinking loathing that Obama or anyone else inspires) is probably unhealthy for the hater. At the very least it makes one look like a kook to those not afflicted.
Tim,
“Steve, that’s kind of how I felt about it. Brandy is obviously the better dancer, but I personally didn’t like her attitude a lot of the time. Assuming that the votes for Bristol were sincere, people may have been reacting negatively to Brandy’s attitude.”
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Yeah. when you’re used to getting what you want, you generally are going to have an attitude when things don’t go your way. I remember a few years back when Brandy took Kobe Bryant for goodness sake, to her prom. was she dating him or was he a lifelong friend? No. But she was Brandy and she didn’t, absolutely couldn’t, go to the prom with one of her classmates or someone from the neighborhood. had to get the millionaire, famous basketball player to take her. She’s used to getting everything she wants and she didn’t this time. And with all the talk shows she’s been on telling her what a travesty she has just endured, you would swear she got screwed out of an important job or buying the house she always wanted – not a popularity contest.
Another thought. the judges, if they truly thought injustice was being done, would virtually guarantee a Bristol Palin defeat by giving her all 6s and 7s – or even 8s, since I think they’ve been giving her 9s – thus rendering the voting by viewers moot. Of course, if Palin is as bad as everyone says, then those are the scores she should be receiving anyway.
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They won’t do that, of course, because making the voting by the public irrelevant would piss a lot of them off and cause less people to tune in. It would make the ending anticlimactic. As it stands, if there is a concerted effort to vote for Bristol and that – thanks to everyone from Jimmy Kimmel to MSNBC – is now countered with an anti-Palin focus/effort, the viewership of the finale should be quite large.
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In the end, it’s a fluff piece of entertainment. And if Bristol Palin wins, well, it seems just by some of the comments here that people will be determined to make a political issue out of it one way or the other
Agreed, Jerome. It’s a mess. Thank goodness it is a meaningless bit of fluff.
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To tell you the truth, Bristol’s not that bad. Problem is, she’s not that good either. If the judging was done on dancing alone, there’s no doubt who would have gone home last week. Both the remaining two contestants are far better than Palin in almost every way, so it really will be too bad if Bristol ends up winning in the end. After the dancing Jennifer Grey did this past week, I think she deserves it hands down.
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In the end, the producers of the show got what they wanted – ratings. And next week, a lot of people will tune in to see if a) Bristol Palin gets voted off as she so richly deserves for being the daughter of that completely awful former governor of Alaska or b) Conservative righteousness triumphs again by propelling Bristol into the winners circle.
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Meanwhile, the rest of us just hope for some fluffy entertainment.
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I doubt the ratings will jump all that much since a lot of the idiots marshalling their forces on both sides are telling them that they only have to vote at a certain time and not actually watch the thing. That’s actually something a lot of Right wing blogs and a few radio hosts have been saying from day one actually.
“Another thought. the judges, if they truly thought injustice was being done, would virtually guarantee a Bristol Palin defeat by giving her all 6s and 7s – or even 8s, since I think they’ve been giving her 9s – thus rendering the voting by viewers moot.”
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It’s absolutely true that the judges could, if they wanted, be far harsher with their scores for Palin if they deemed that warranted. But based on the description of the scoring process on the ABC site linked above, I don’t know that anything the judges do could be said to *guarantee* that the public vote would be irrelevant.
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Suppose for the finals, the judges give Dancer A and Dancer B identical (presumably high) scores and give Dancer C a zero. (Which is unlikely, but would be the harshest action the judges could themselves take.) According to the methodology described above, the a dancer’s final ranking is determined by combining the share of the judges votes a dancer receives with the share of the public vote the dancer receives. So in this example, Dancer C would get a 0% share from the judges scores, and Dancers A and B would each receive a 50% share.
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But suppose that Dancer C also receives 70% of the public vote, and Dancers A and B split the rest, each receiving 15%. In this case Dancer C would win with a combined score of 70 (the judges 0 plus the public’s 70) while Dancers A and B would each score a 65 (50 for the judges scores plus 15 for the public’s votes) and both lose to Dancer C.
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I don’t know how realistic it would be for the public vote to play out that way, but (assuming I’m understanding the described scoring methodology correctly) that does illustrate that the judges are limited in their ability to guarantee any particular result.
I watched it last night, for the finals. Kyle is okay. Jennifer Grey is far and away the best of this trio.
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But that Bristol Palin… man, is she not good.
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See, what I figured will happen today is that she’ll “accidentally” sprain an ankle, and her mom will have to take her place tonight… what? Is it that far fetched?
Wouldn’t make any different if her head fell off; the voting’s over, and I suspect I know how it went.
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And she really doesn’t get it: She was complaining last night that people feel she doesn’t belong there. And it’s not about that; it’s about this:
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Until now, the show at least has had an illusion of being about the dancing. There have been other people who have gone further than they should, but eventually the American public did the right thing and set them aside for superior dancers.
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Now even that illusion has been shredded, and it’s left as a pure popularity contest. And worse, it’s not even about her; it’s about trying to annoy people who don’t like her mother. It’s a shame that she doesn’t seem to realize that that’s what’s going on. It comes down to what Tim said: Most of us were just hoping for some fluffy entertainment. Instead we’ve got political gamesmanship. It’s like bizarro Reese’s cups: “Hey! You got rat poison in my peanut butter!”
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PAD
I don’t get where you think that Bristol isn’t that good. Look, there were better. She went further than she should have. But if she really wasn’t that great, the judges would have said so. Len especially has no problem whatsoever laying it on the line and telling a dancer when he or she sucks. He had high praise for Bristol last night. The main problem was her first dance was patterned after a Broadway number that was well known and loved by the judges. I don’t know what her partner was thinking. It was a very poor choice.
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Now, having said that, there was ABSOLUTELY no doubt who walked away with it last night. NO DOUBT who WILL win if this is just about dancing. If that doesn’t happen tonight and Bristol pulls an upset, there will be no denying that the voting was not about the dance.
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And this is one conservative who will not be happy about that. Kudos to Bristol for overcoming her shyness and her inhibitions and making a run at winning Dancing with the Stars. But honey, you clearly didn’t make it to the top. If you win, maybe you can become the dancing mascot of the Tea Party.
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On a related note, anyone watch Skating with the Stars afterwards? I was looking forward to it tremendously just because I thought the challenge would be that much greater. Now my question is – Could they have made that show suck any worse? It was like Dancing with the Stars’ evil twin. Even the judges looked like a Bizarro version of Dancing’s panel. My family and I thought that they might just want to go to the final results show next week and put a fork in this one.
I wouldn’t touch “Skating” with a ten meter cattle prod, if for no other reason than that the risk of injury is so much higher on the ice.
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PAD
By the by, my above response was to Eric, not to PAD. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
So I was at my bowling league last night and just watched the DVR’d show now. I tried to be impartial about Palin; I really did. But she seemed stiff, even lumbering at points, and not remotely deserving of what seemed extremely generous scoring from the judges.
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What I found truly interesting was the clip from last week’s episode in which Palin was shown beating out Brandy. And they had a shot of Grey and Hough reacting. Hough was slack-jawed, but Grey’s expression said it all: “I’m screwed.” I think she figured if it came down to her and Brandy or Kyle, then may the better dancer win. But if Brandy was out, then popularity had completely trumped dancing, and Grey had no chance of winning.
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We’ll see just how good an actress she is if/when she has to put on a happy face because Palin won.
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PAD
It’s been a really long time since I’ve seen this show. Heck, one of my heroes was on it last year and even THAT couldn’t get me to watch.
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Now, a thought occurs. Is it possible that some people are voting for Bristol Palin because she’s gone through a lot and is still on her feet? Granted, there are people out there going through much more and much worse, but could some people just like seeing people come in and try?
There may well be people who are voting for her on that basis. And if it was called “Endurance Test of the Celebrities,” I’d be more inclined to understand. David Hasselhoff has been involved with way more crap than Palin, and for a lot longer, and he was the first one gone. All of them have had problems, as you yourself said.
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And as many people as there are who are inclined to view it as you say, I’m betting there are those who haven’t even bothered to watch the show; they just tune in at the end and get the number to call.
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PAD
This story is the gift that keeps on giving; Kathy Griffin makes an ášš of herself calling Bristol fat to a group of unamused service men and women and the FCC reveals that people were actually stupid enough to demand they DO something about her not being voted off: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/celebrity/palin-success-triggered-fcc-complaints