So the new issues of X-Factor and Wolverine: First Class are out. Might be some stuff there worth discussing.
PAD
90 comments on “STASH WEDNESDAY – June 24”
Since the only days I get comics are day when there’s a new X-Factor – today was a good day(man, did Marvel decide to put out a lot of stuff today…)!
Great issue!
Did I detect a mention of the unaccounted for time traveling clone? Hmmmm. A moment I’m sure lots of fans were looking forward to/wondering about/dreading for years! Hah. Good times.
And Cortex can communicate across ? And so easily? I’m intrigued…
Okay, you’re going to make me go back and reread that ish (for like the 123th time!) I did NOT pick up anything about the clone. What the heck did I miss.
PAD – seriously- if you talked about the 2nd dupe that everyone so conveniently forgot about, I will love you more than I loved the ending….
Got XFACTOR, Gotham Sirens, Green Lantern and Detective.
I think Detective is the pick of the week, with a combination of a good script and eye-popping artwork and coloring.
Plus the hardcover of SIR APROPOS OF NOTHING came out.
I got the new X-Factor, and, as a longtime X-Force (the real one) fan…I APPROVE.
Detective Comics – Really liked Kate Kane’s solo debut (even though the baddies relate to the inane Book of Crime, again). Loved Renee Montoya’s return as the Question. My only qualm is that a few of JH Williams’ otherwise gorgeous pages cross over into excessive cheesecake.
Sirens of Gotham – Speaking of cheesecake, this fluffy and forgettable comic is almost nothing but cheesecake. Dini is closer to his Countdown work than his Detective work here, and Guillem March does little to make me think this book will ever be anything but T&A. Not coming back next month.
The Literals – The grand finale of the unexpectedly delightful and funny Great Fables Crossover. I’m a bit sad to see it end, since I think that the regular Fables book will go back to being humorless.
I read X-Factor last night and all I have to say is, I love you PAD. I love you so much!
WOW. Huge lot of comics, I actually spent over $100 in one week (my budget is $100 a month) so this took some financial work on my part.
Freddy, Jason and Ash – I love Bruce Campbell and the Evil Dead movies, all these characters are just fun and the comic didnt disappoint. In a world where I have to wait months for a convoluted and delayed series like Legion Final Crisis and so 3000 Dark Reign miniseries, this is like a nice relaxing bath…in blood.
Gotham Sirens – Loved the art and the writing, made me sad that I seemed to have missed so much of the Batman Universe of late.
Green Lantern & X-Factor – Almost each month these two titles tie for most loved. When these issues come out they go right to the top of the pile. And Peter David Thank you for that wonderful scene with old friends Rictor and Shatterstar.
JSA- bored, which is odd, I love the series as a whole and a huge fan of Jerry Ordway art.
Thunderbolts – manages to scare and entertain.
All Avenger titles – If you had told me in 1995 that there would be almost as many Avengers titles as there were X-men titles I would have laughed and kicked you in the shin.
Many more titles, but didnt get to them. At 39 I am going back to school to finish a degree I abandoned in 1990. So I needed to do some homework and then swim a little to lose weight that I have slowly been gaining since 1990.
I also picked up the standard slew of X & A books:
*Astonishing was disappointing but pretty (but at least a somewhat novel approach for X-Men)
*Uncanny was amusing and ended predictably
*I picked up the Utopia thing just for Silvestri on X – but the whole storyline looks really obnoxious
*I was going to drop Avengers Initiative, but the underground will keep me in it. God I hate Osborn, so tired of him. I’ll take “bad Tony Stark” any day over this – plus the whole Osborn thing really would have ran better during the Bush years.
*New Avengers was decent, but I’m not big on the stereotypical accent that comes in and out on Dr. Voodoo.
*As mentioned, X-Factor continues to excel.
*Guardians of the Galaxy still rocks, lots of balls in play.
*I really wish Captain Britain & MI13 hadn’t been canceled – it’s consistently the second or third best book in my pull.
*Mighty Avengers is at least keeping me wondering what’s coming next.
Rictor & Shatterstar- glad to see it! You are the best!!! Been waiting for this ever since their X-Force days! Can’t wait for the next issue- although, I say that every month with this title!
Thank you for writing this book!
X-factor: Enjoying it. I like adult(ish) Layla better than 13-year old Layla. Dr. Doom was fun; and I enjoyed the reveal there. Not entirely sure where all this is going, but I really enjoy the characters that are going there.
Avengers Initiative: Going pretty much on Momentum for me. New Warriors #1 (1990) and that era WC Avengers were among my first serious collected comics so I’m going mostly on Nostalgia.
New Avengers: I dig Dr. Voodoo. Maybe it’s a kind of obvious play on Voodoo Doctor, but I dig it.
Dark Avengers: The novelty’s wearing off, but still fun.
Thor: Not sure how I feel about it. A little sorry to see the Odinforce go; I enjoyed the nice balance struck with Thor going about his godly business and not being just a superhero.
Nova: Liked this follow up/clean up issue much better than the ‘Major Arc Conclusion’ in the previous.
Astonishing: It’s pretty. I’ve really enjoyed a lot of Warren Ellis, but I think he crossed the line from ‘High Concept’ to weird and boring. I like Forge. I like him conflicted, I like him off-balance. I don’t like him as an out of touch psycho.
Green Lantern: I’m having a lot of fun with the war of the light. Really enjoyed the Guardians’ “diplomatic” solution to its conflict with Agent Orange.
Last Days of Animal Man: Earth’s Green Lantern is a Baleen Whale. That’s kind of awesome.
Haven’t picked up my books yet (but I have two issues of X-Factor waiting for me so I’m excited for that) but I did read the Peter David Interview Retrospective thingie on comicbookresources, and it’s a real entertaining read. My favourite bits, when asked about the hook-hand the answer goes: “Number one, it’s a freaking harpoon. Can we get on the same page with that? It’s not a hook. It was never a hook.” And when asked about the Marv Goes Insane storyline in Captain Marvel (which I liked a lot) the quote goes: “I developed the storyline to play to what I saw as Chris’s strengths as an artist. In this case, his strength lay in drawing people who looked as if they were nuts.” Big chuckle there.
Picked up X-Factor and Wolverine: First Class. Both were AMAZING. The Siryn/Dazzler team-up was was great. It was especially nice seeing Theresa in a lighter and more comedic role with everything she’s been through in X-Factor recently. Thumbs up to you for pulling off the huge contrast!
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X-Factor was amazing. The fight scene was exciting as hëll, and that last page just floored me. Thank you SO MUCH for that, and pulling that off the way you did. It’s been a long time coming and could’ve easily gone all wrong. I’m totally anticipating the next issue now!
i releally enjoyed the dazzker book thats what im calling it plus woleverene funny in 2 books a record
I read Wolverine:First Class and X-Factor yesterday.
W:FC was adorable! Loved the “twist” in the end. And Wolverine was being such a bìŧçh to Dazzler it made me LOL.
About X-Factor? You delivered, as usual! The Dr.Doom twist made me feel so sorry about him… I don’t think I was supposed to, though..hehe!
Oh, and that last page… it better not be undone/dismissed by the next issue! I just hope Rictor doesn’t shove him away and ask WTF is going on…!
More Dazzler! Best issue of W:FC to date! She was too cute for words. The entire character dynamic between the four was stellar.
Pad~ Please say you’re going to review the Transformers movie. It was already dissappointing that you skipped out on Terminator Salvation. Think of the children!
JC– I’m not PAD but here’s a quick review of T:ROFL.
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My ears! My eyes! My brain!
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That said, it’s not as bad as some of the reviews made it seem, which is a shame since a genuine 200 million dollar trainwreck would be more fun to watch. All I can say is that it appears that Michael bay looked at every review of the first movie, saw what the reviewer did not like, and made sure this movie was 4 times worse. It would be as though George Lucas made Attack of the Clones with the intention of making it all Jar-Jar all of the time.
Hey PAd– if you stick around on W:FC is there any chance of Lockheed showing up? That would be cool. Or how about the return of Eye-Scream?
On the X-Factor front– I’ll send a real letter soon. As soon as I think of something to top my letter (the one that got published) in Supergirl.
Nothing new this week, but while looking for a particular item as a gift yesterday, my quest took me to another area comic shop, where I bought myself Vol. 5 of Hulk Visionaries: Peter David. Included in this collection is Incredible Hulk Annual #16, which I’d never read before. I can only assume I never saw it on the shelf and/or my (sadly long gone) comic shop at the time didn’t include that annual in my pulls.
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It’s also possible I deliberately decided not to get it because it was part 3 of four of some storyline called “Life Form”, which I’m assuming crossed various annuals.
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Anyway, the Hulk annual featured a return appearance of Mercy, the female-looking alien who decides that killing you is a kindness. Or used to. In this story, she learns that not everyone who says they want to die really does. So, feeling somewhat embarrassed by her previous actions, Mercy’s not quite as willing to send people to that undiscovered country anymore.
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Which isn’t such great news for a guy named George. He’s desperate to die.
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There are some nice points to all that, and to the “debate” among Banner, the (grey) Hulk, the Life Form and George; but my favorite scene was the one where the Army Colonel gives the Hulk a piece of his mind after the Hulk trashed his platoon– a platoon that had simply been on night maneuvers; they weren’t looking for him, and didn’t even know he was in the area. The panel of the discombobulated Hulk being taken aback as the Colonel tears into him is priceless.
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For some reason, the entire annual wasn’t reproduced in this collection. Other stories mentioned on the annual’s cover were absent. Presumably because PAD didn’t write them. But then he didn’t write the two page piece that followed his story. Wonder why that was included? Maybe because Herb Trimpe did the art, and he’s considered a classic Hulk artist whose work Marvel was happy to include, albeit briefly? Or maybe it had something to do with the required total page count of the collection, and those two pages were a perfect fit.
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Anyway, I enjoyed re-reading all those issues, as well as reading what, to me, was a new issue of PAD’s run on Hulk. Too bad the whole “Life Form” story had to be a crossover, but again, I loved that scene of the Hulk literally flinching from the outraged Colonel.
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On a related note, consider the line regarding the TV incarnation of the Hulk, “and now, when David Banner grows angry or outraged…” Outraged in what sense? As in this scenario? He’s at the supermarket, buying groceries, and he gets to the dairy section.
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“Milk is how much?!”
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By the way, the last story in that collection is the one where Bruce and Betty are reunited after his apparent death in Middleton. The one where Bruce fails to get to Betty’s train and time and falls to the tracks in defeat as it heads around a corner. PAD himself has criticized the ending because he thought it was a bit of stretch for the readers to buy the last page where Bruce looks up and Betty’s standing there on the track. He said something to the effect that Betty would somehow have to have sensed that Bruce was nearby, pulled the emergency cord and jumped off the train. All stretching credulity. No, that’s only the rumors of a Fantastic Four/Plastic Man team-up.
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Myself, I never had that problem with that scene. Not when the issue first came out, and not yesterday, aware of PAD’s own criticisms. Since there was no “sound effect” of the train suddenly stopping (unless this collection failed to reproduce it), it seemed to me that Betty either never got on the train (she seemed to hesitate a bit in the scene with the conductor), or that she simply jumped off before it began moving very fast (it was just starting and going around a bend, don’t forget)– possibly from the back of the last car– and wasn’t seen by anyone else on board. Which would also explain the lack of train-stopping sound effects.
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While Betty not having gotten on the train would make the most sense (though she couldn’t be standing in front of Bruce as he lifted his head); the station’s behind him, her having jumped off the train still works. I mean, as opposed to pulling the emergency cord. As to why she would leave a train after having just gotten on board, the most logical explanation is that she made a sudden decision not to run off to wherever, but to stay in Darrien, Connecticut and either live her life or find out just what was up with whoever it was she encountered in the church confessional (Bruce, as she’d soon discover) or both. Either that, or she’d recently been bitten by Peter Parker and acquired some spider sense.
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Other great moments included the “Ears fellow?” scene from the issues involving the Hulk, Submariner and Dr. Strange. Good stuff.
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Rick
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P.S. While I didn’t find that gift item yesterday, a place I went to today had it.
By an interesting coincidence, last night I watched a movie that I’d scheduled for viewing this weekend some time ago: Back to the Future Part III. The film features a scene in which a woman impulsively stops a train in motion.
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It also features a scene of Marty McFly doing the Moonwalk.
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A double dose of irony there.
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Rick
Mr David,
Just wanted you to know that #45 will be my last issue of X-FACTOR. Why can’t liberals keep their politics to themselves? It is my contention that alternative lifestyles are inappropriate for all-ages comics. Before the liberal haters come out of the woodwork, I believe in live and let live. For MAX books, adults only, self-published comics, Vertigo, etc., anything goes. But in books with caped folks throwing tanks–what do fighting bad guys and amazing powers have to do with alternative lifestyles? Kids and teenagers are exposed to these books–is that really the best place for them to be exposed to two guys kissing? All I ask of my superhero comics is a good adventure story, not your personal soapbox for political issues.
It just reeks of pushing your politics down my throat. I know Marvel and DC are full of it, and it’s wrong. I don’t mean to be picking on you, but I generally like your writing. I just can’t stand your constant liberal dogma overwhelming everything you write, personally and professionally.
Since everyone’s so sensitive these days, I suppose I have to point out that I am not advocating a boycott, saying bad things about the writer or artist or their ancestry, or demanding Peter David’s firing from the book. Mr. David, you go to great lengths to ask what fans think of the book and your writing. Here it is. I am finished with X-FACTOR, a book I liked. I’m thinking about avoiding your writing generally too. Not sure about that. Please change your writing style to where not every character you write is a liberal Democrat. Except the villains, of course. I’m sure they’re all conservative Republicans. If people want intimate gay contact in their fiction, there are plenty of outlets for that. Why taint superhero comic books?
Jerry Smith said:
“Before the liberal haters come out of the woodwork, I believe in live and let live.”
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That, Mr. Smith, is an obvious lie. If you truly believed in live and let live, you would simply stop buying the book instead of coming here to file a weak-assed protest. Go crawl back into your cave.
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You would also obviously not have any problem with a conservative viewpoint being displayed in a comic book. In fact, you cheer for such.
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And it’s also (enough ‘also’s for you, ya Palin lover?) obvious that you know you are wrong about this, because of your own hate speech calling me a liberal hater, as I don’t hate you, Mr. Smith, I pity you. Pity you like I would a stray, half starved dog that got run over by a semi on a busy highway.
“That, Mr. Smith, is an obvious lie. If you truly believed in live and let live, you would simply stop buying the book instead of coming here to file a weak-assed protest. Go crawl back into your cave.”
Anyone doubt that liberals can’t EVEN DISCUSS a viewpoint different than theirs? Exhibit #1.
“You would also obviously not have any problem with a conservative viewpoint being displayed in a comic book. In fact, you cheer for such.”
Yes, because there are no conservative viewpoints in mainstream comics. Everyone is a liberal, every character votes Democrat and loves to point it out. Every preacher or conservative is a villain. And I’m wrong for wanting a conservative viewpoint in any comic anywhere that is not mocked? Okay …
Yes, because there are no conservative viewpoints in mainstream comics. Everyone is a liberal, every character votes Democrat and loves to point it out.
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When I was writing “Incredible Hulk,” Betty Banner was depicted as a solid Republican who had very little patience with what she saw as dithering Democrats who wanted to underfund the military. Bill Clinton was portrayed as a dithering waffler who needed to consult Hillary before making a decision.
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The only individual in X-Factor who has stated any liberal views was Guido, which is why I’m then going to be depicting him as unaccountably skeeved by Rictor and Shatterstar: To examine the notion of liberal hypocrisy.
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Which you of course won’t be reading.
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Because when it comes to someone whose actions are informed by, and controlled by, political viewpoints, the one who has that problem isn’t me. It’s you.
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PAD
“Why can’t liberals keep their politics to themselves?”
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What does a kiss have to do with politics?
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“But in books with caped folks throwing tanks–what do fighting bad guys and amazing powers have to do with alternative lifestyles?”
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What do fighting bad guys and amazing powers have to do with traditional lifestyles? If superheroes don’t qualify as alternative lifestyles, I don’t know what does.
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“Kids and teenagers are exposed to these books–is that really the best place for them to be exposed to two guys kissing?”
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Certainly not. The best places for them to be exposed to it are movies and television. Comics have too small an audience.
I really hate to break it to you, but sexual persuasion itself isn’t a political issue. Gay marriage is. But there are folks down the street from me who have voted Democratic for as long as they’ve been voting, but are opposed to gay marriage on religious grounds. If homosexuality has been politicized at all, it’s in relation to issues such as marriage or serving in the military, neither of which was the topic at hand.
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Furthermore, your fundamental objection is flawed because X-Factor isn’t an all-ages book. It’s rated T+.
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And the best thing of all is that in an upcoming issue, the liberal Guido is depicted as being extremely uncomfortable with Rictor and Shatterstar’s relationship. You would probably appreciate it…except you won’t be reading it. Of course, if you wanted to read my genuine “all ages” work, there’s “Wolverine: First Class.” Fun series. But you won’t be reading that either, apparently.
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Your loss.
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PAD
Hey, no fun with the spoilers, LOL.
Poor Guido. He never noticed it before.
So it is OK for Starfire and Nightwing to make out frequently and having thousands of sleepovers when they were in New Teen Titans?
So it is OK for Storm and Forge to kiss each other in The Uncanny X-Men?
So it is OK for Superman to kiss Lois Lane, Wonder Woman and Lana Lang?
So it is OK for this, that and there … except for Rictor & Shatterstar kissing each other? And you decry this as liberals stuffing into your lives?!
Let’s just face the truth — It has nothing to do with liberalism. It has much to do with your homophobia.
R-
Mr. Smith —
X-Factor is labeled T+. It is not, by any definition, an all-ages book. I certainly would never allow a child to read some of the issues of this comic, like, for instance, the early issue in which Siryn was captured, gagged, and tortured. But I’m sure you don’t have a problem with that. After all, it’s a proven fact that depictions of love are far more hazardous to minors than extreme violence. Why, I’m sure Rictor and Shatterstar’s conjoined lips are scarring thousands of young minds as we speak!
Thank you for reminding us all why it’s still an act of guts and bravery for writers like Mr. David to include even the mildest expressions of same-sex romance in their comic books. And thank you, Mr. David, for having that courage. I look forward to following Rictor and Shatterstar’s story, wherever you should take it. Even if it turns out to be a fakeout, I’m glad this panel exists.
Thank you. And no, it’s not a fake out. A number of people seem to be concerned that Star is still under Cortex’s control. Or that Rictor is going to freak out the next panel and say, “Dude, what the hëll?”
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That would be cheap. I don’t do cheap. Okay, sometimes I do, but not this time. I’m not interested in having people say, “Peter David introduced this and then chickened out.”
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PAD
Mr. David —
That’s such a relief to hear. Not that I don’t trust you as a writer, but comics fans quickly get used to last-page reveals not being quite what they seem, so I didn’t want to jump to conclusions. Keep up the good work!
In the context of all the previous references to Rictor’s sexuality I’m half-expecting the next issue to start with them saying “what’s the big deal, I’m just greeting my best friend who I haven’t seen in years, it’s just a European thing.”
I’m glad to read this.
I was afraid Ric might react that way.
Thanks for saying that won’t happen.
Jennifer said:
“X-Factor is labeled T+. It is not, by any definition, an all-ages book.”
Not good enough. It should carry an “Adults Only” designation.
Jennifer said:
“I certainly would never allow a child to read some of the issues of this comic, like, for instance, the early issue in which Siryn was captured, gagged, and tortured. But I’m sure you don’t have a problem with that.”
Thanks for letting me know I have no objection to torture. Is that what passes for reasoned discussion on this board? You are definitely entitled to your opinion. I happen to not agree. And it’s hardly an “act of bravery” to push same sex relationships at Marvel. It seems like writers actually HAVE to do it sometime in their six-issue block or be blacklisted from the company.
Yes, I would call that reasoned discussion. Since you’ve clearly had no problem with the T+ rating on all 44 previous issues of X-Factor, which you’ve read and apparently enjoyed, then by your own logic you approve of presenting torture to children, but not kissing. Otherwise you would have dropped the book for self-righteous reasons years ago.
This is, to my knowledge, the first romantic male/male kiss to be featured in a Marvel comic. That’s a far cry from writers being forced to include same-sex relationships in their stories. But I suppose when you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and when you’re a homophobe, it always looks like the gays are out to get you.
Frankly, I wish I lived in the world you’ve invented.
Not good enough. It should carry an “Adults Only” designation.
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So now you’re changing your story. It’s not about the kids. It’s about the teens?
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Why not just admit it’s about you. You don’t like gays. And you don’t like people who don’t have a problem with gays, i.e., me. Because that’s why you are not only going to stop reading X-Factor, but everything I write.
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Right? Just say you don’t like gays and people who don’t have a problem with gays and stop dancing around it.
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PAD
No changing of stories. In my original post I said alternative lifestyles portrayed in comics should have certain restrictions, one of which is that they should be labeled “Adults Only.” As for not liking gays–this is America, do what you want. My girlfriend’s sister would be surprised to hear that–she and her partner are good friends. No, my simply stated opinion was that alternative lifestyles are inappropriate for mainstream comics, for many reasons. Wrong for children, has nothing to do with superhero adventure stories, and allows the writer to push his/her liberal beliefs doen the throats of an unwilling populace. No hate here fellows, as much as you want to think so.
Jerry, if you’re going to deny that your problems with the issue (in both senses of the word) merely stem from your own personal discomfort with homosexuality, at least make a convincing argument. “Wrong for children?” How so? “Nothing to do with superhero adventure stories?” So superheroes can’t have a personal life? What does Clark Kent marrying Lois Lane have to do with superhero adventure stories? “Allows the writer to push his/her liberal beliefs”? Again, what does two men kissing have to do with liberal politics?
Mr. Smith —
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Somewhere above, you claim all comic book characters are written as liberal, and that you hate liberal.
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So it must be asked — Why are you still reading comic books if they all offend you so much.
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Ya know what? Just go the Hëll away.
Sorry if English is your second language–can you point out where I said I hated liberals? They’re wrong, misguided, maybe. But why would that engender hatred?
Mr. Smith —
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Read my post carefully, and you’ll see that I didn’t say you hated liberals, I said you hated liberal, which you do.
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It’s like when you say you don’t hate gays, but you do hate the sin. You don’t hate us liberals, but you do what what we believe.
It seems like writers actually HAVE to do it sometime in their six-issue block or be blacklisted from the company.
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Are you really this thick, or just putting on a show?
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But, by all means, please show us EVERY example in the last 6 months of writers HAVING to do this. We’re waiting.
Peter David: Many years ago, I interviewed you for Silent News, a national newspaper for deaf and hard of hearing about Supergirl that basically stumbled upon the residential deaf school and all that stuff.
You do not know how many Deaf people bought it and saved it — many of them do not read comic books but when they heard of you, they ran to buy it — why? Because it was the first time that an issue touched something that is close to their identity.
And today, you brought Rictor and Shatterstar to each other. When I was a kid, I admitted that I had the hots for Rictor. I was kinda irked when Rictor cared for Rahne. I never cared much for Shatterstar. But as of today, I learned through PerezHilton.com that Rictor & Shatterstar is into each other. I scrambled to find out who wrote it … it was you, Peter.
Out of many writers, you’re bold. I admire that in you. Kordax, Aquaman, Supergirl & deaf kids and now Rictor & Shatterstar!
So for that dude who said that the issue should be designated for adults because there was a gay kiss … c’mon! Why do you think I had hots for Rictor when I was 12?
R-
Jerry Smith,
If it’s inappropriate for two males to be kissing in a comic book, then it should also be inappropriate for a male and a female to be kissing, too. Why would two males kissing be that much more “adult?”
There was no sexual contact.
You also said this:
“But in books with caped folks throwing tanks–what do fighting bad guys and amazing powers have to do with alternative lifestyles? Kids and teenagers are exposed to these books–is that really the best place for them to be exposed to two guys kissing? All I ask of my superhero comics is a good adventure story, not your personal soapbox for political issues.”
What do fighting bad guys and amazing powers have to do with romance at all, period?
There are a lot of comics out there to choose from. If you don’t like a choice made in an X-Factor comic book there are many other choices for homophobic bigots like yourself. From how I see it, you’re no different from how someone would have been in 1966 upon reading that – oh noes! – there is a BLACK character in the new issue of Fantastic Four!
For me, I think it’s great that Peter David is giving readers (AND young people) possible POSITIVE gay role models. And by having Rictor and/or Shatterstar going in that direction, guess what, they’re only 2 characters vs. thousands of heterosexual heroes in the Marvel Universe. I’m enjoying X-Factor (and PAD’s work) even more because of his willingness to “go there.” But as for the kiss itself, if I had children, I’d find something like that even less offensive than say a Code-approved book where it is obvious an unmarried Clark Kent and Lois Lane just had sex.
Your mileage may vary.
I wanted to join in my thanks to you, Peter, for finally more-than-just-hinting. Admittedly I was a waffling fan, especially after Rictor being together with Rahne again and the whole mess with Jamie and Theresa, but I’ve actually gone back to my Marvel subscription of your comic now with these more recent issues. I’ve also gotten several of my friends to start picking it up because of this.
I’m also very, very glad to see you aren’t going to have it “retconned” in a few issues. My largest fear was that Rictor was going to freak out, especially given that Guido’s watching as his earlier predilection towards acting more “macho,” as he might put it. Though you’ve done a lot with him since X-Factor began to show that that’s no longer who he is. I can see the slow-buildup– for example, his earlier conversation with Jamie after he slept with both M and Theresa about Quicksilver.
Though I’m also curious to see why Mr. Smith was alright with children or teenagers reading an explicit torture session but not watching a gay male kiss? Or at least alright with it enough not to stop reading out of moral repulsion.
Look at that, PAD. With one tiny panel of two fully-clothed, adult, non-related men kissing, you’ve managed to pìšš øff at least one homophobe. Good work! If he wants to boycott your writing because he’s more skeeved out by guys showing affection than by women getting beaten and gagged or helpless newborns disappearing into nonexistence, it’s his loss.
Mr.Jerry Smith.
Don’t try to make this political! There are homophobic liberals and gay republicans all over your country who would disagree with your generalisations.
You’re simply a homophobe that was suprised to see a man-to-man kiss “tainting” his superhero comic.
I’m sure if it was two evil chicks kissing instead, it wouldn’t have been that much of a problem.
Also, don’t try to make it like Marvel and DC are trying to shove gay liveral stuff down your throat. The percentage of gay relationships in comics are way less than it is in real life, but I guess it’s still big enough for you to think that the comics are full of gratuitous gay relationships that piss you off.
I’m sure that teens are aware that there are men who like to kiss one another, they wouldn’t expect a comic like “X-Factor”(which was never a simple “caped folks throwing tanks” book to begin with) to shock them with the “sad truth”. Also, there is no such thing as an “alternative lifestyle”. One can either be gay/bi or not, there’s no choice or lifestyle whatsoever and it doesn’t have to affect any other aspect of one’s life.
P.S. I am not a liberal *hint hint*
P.S.2. When I use the word “homophobe” I don’t mean it in the common, hateful sense. You’re just a person that didn’t have the privilege to hang out with decent homosexual people and realise that they’re not the devil and they’re not out to get you. Maybe someday you will, maybe not, it doesn’t matter in the greater scheme of things.
P.S.3 PAD, you are all kinds of awesome!
Yes there is nothing ADULT about 2 men kissing. If a comic can feature a man and a woman kissing then there is no reason whatsoever that 2 men or 2 women can’t kiss. Heck we’ve seen men and women in bed wearing nothing but a well placed sheet. This was practically Howdy Doody Time in comparison.
Just echoing my compliments to you PAD for finally doing away with the innuendo (loved the innuendo mind you) and not making it a fake-out. I know I can’t wait for each issue.
This was the book that got me back into comics and it’s still my fave each month.
Oh well… lose one reader, gain another.
I haven’t read comics in 8 years; simply because the task of purchasing everything that I wanted became so dámņ tedious that I just gave it all up. Then I came across the ending to X-Factor 45 and decided it was time to return.
Props to Marvel and Peter David for showing, God-forbid, homosexuality in a mainstream comic; and more importantly, managed to do it without an “Adult” rating. Clearly, this was NOT an adult situation and is nothing to hide from younger readers. It’s about time…
Here here! lose one gain two it would seem. I’ve moved away from Marvel comics in the past couple of years mainly due living a full 2 hour drive from the nearest comic shop and also because I became more involved in small press but upon hearing about issue 45 of X-factor I made the effort to head to my “local” and stocked up on trades and back isssues.
Thank you Mr. David for finally doing something I thought should have happened waaaaaaaaaay back in X-force. I was ten at the time, didn’t know what gay meant but I still knew those two where more then friends.
For reference, the recent issue of Cable, #15, is also rated T+. And inside is plenty of guns blazing, claws slashing, and even Deadpool being torn in two.
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But let us all remember: two adults of the same sex kissing is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR worse than somebody being ripped apart.
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Obviously.
Wow. Quite a debate on the kiss.
I was unaware of any ‘hinting’ that had gone before, so when Rictor and Shatterstar shared that one moment, it was a genuine (and very exciting) surprise.
I’ve enjoyed a great deal of your work, and I am now doubly excited to see you depict a (possible) gay relationship in your work. I’d read X-Factor anyways (have for 45 issues already), and this just gives another example of the rewards for doing so.
Thank you so much. I can’t wait to see what comes next. (Picture Dawn after Willow and Tara got back together in Buffy and you have an inkling of my excitement level).
Jeff P.
You know, that’s a part about the USA I probably will never understand.
Action scenes no matter how brutal, are rarely a point in a discussion about a movie or any other kind of entertainment. But a hint of any sexual conduct and you have protestors out to ‘protect the children’.
As I mostly hear the Black and White part of the news over here it always sounds like:
“We must protect the morals of our children, this is more important than protecting their lives.”
While I don’t agree with the strictness of our german weapons law, I question holding up morals over lives. It only comes up when a shooting happened and then only computer games portrayed as the problem. Rarely, if ever action movies or crime serials, never how the news report something.
Note: Given, news from other countries are rarely very specific and even rarer are are the reporters who understand what history has to do with the current mindset and can relate it to his listeners. Not to mention that we only get the so-called ‘relevant’ news. Every country has enough news dayly to fill anyones day, so foreign news are rated low on the interest scale unless one is involved.
Also, this was not intended as criticism, only as an observation how others see it. Some might say they are not interested in other points of view, but then I don’t know how many in the USA were surprised about the recent turnaround in Washington about the whole global warming stance. Sometimes other points of view can help.
I think I’m going to starting reading Marvel comics again because of this story line. I stopped buying Marvel on a regular basis after the over the top homophobic reaction to Northstar coming out from the Marvel execs.
I was further dismayed when they took Mystique and turned her into one of the 4 Whørëš of the the Apocalypse and had her hooking up with every guy she could find. It was like Marvel brass was trying to prove she’s really straight. Personally, I wished they made her solo series a MAX title and got her a new girlfriend, but that’s another discussion.
I view homophobia as no different from racism. If a company practices it I try and avoid those companies. It looks like Marvel might be creeping into the 21st century and if so, I’ll gladly support them. Plus I always like PAD’s writing.:) It was definitely hard to stay away! So, consider me as a gained buyer because of the storyline. PAD you ROCK!
Understand, Ashes, I don’t want to lose you as a new reader. But in regards to Northstar, I was on the inside for every moment of that, and I want to let you know that it was way more complicated than execs having a homophobic reaction. Remember, if Marvel execs had been homophobic, the storyline would never have been done in the first place.
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What happened was the Northstar story hit on a slow news day, where the various cable news networks had nothing better to do than go batshit crazy over a fictional character’s coming out. It went the 24-hour-cable news equivalent of viral. Which in and of itself wasn’t a problem.
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The problem was that a major retail chain (I think I remember which one, but I don’t want to chance getting it wrong, so I won’t be specific) informed Marvel that they were going to cease carrying all X-related merchandise because they didn’t want to carry something that even carry a whiff of controversy.
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So basically because Northstar came out, the MRC was going to cease carrying Wolverine action figures. This at a time when Marvel was making serious headway with its toy line.
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Now it’s easy for you and me to say that Marvel execs should have stuck to their guns and told the MRC to sod off. But we aren’t the ones whose jobs were on the line, suddenly having to explain to their bosses or stockholders why a promising toy line was suddenly going to lose a gargantuan national distribution outlet. The execs weren’t homophobic. The retail chain was. The execs were losingmoneyphobic, and when your job is to make money for the company, that isn’t an entirely unreasoning fear.
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Marvel execs promptly sent down an edict: nothing controversial. They didn’t say, “No more gays.” They didn’t want anything that even carried a whiff of controversy. An X-Factor storyline I’d written that centered on discussing abortion–a story that the editors told me when I wrote it was one of the best things I’d ever written–got gutted when the edict came down.
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I’ll grant you, it wasn’t Marvel’s finest hour, but if the Major Retail Chain hadn’t put the hammer down, Marvel execs absolutely wouldn’t have cared about Northstar’s sexual persuasion.
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I just thought you should know.
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PAD
Thanks for the info. I had heard various things before the issue came out that people were told they couldn’t make a character out right gay and when the issue came out all involve were let go. However, I wasn’t there firsthand, so I completely believe what you are saying.
I work in the film industry and can attest that profit is what controls what gets out and doesn’t. I do agree that it would have been nice if Marvel had stood up to the chain.
Once again, thanks for the response.
Thanks for the info. I had heard various things before the issue came out that people were told they couldn’t make a character out right gay and when the issue came out all involve were let go
Peter, I posted a couple of comments addressing to you and Jerry Smith earlier in the day. It never came visible. Hope you can find it – if not, tell me so that I can re-do it. Sigh.
R-
PAD,
A job well done! I’ve always enjoyed how you developed Rictor’s character and I’m very excited to see how you are going to develop his relationship with Star. I’m really looking forward for the next issues!
as a card carrying gay geek, I thank you for a story a long time coming!
I’m glad to hear everything you’ve said above. It makes me an even MORE ardent fan, if that is possible! Love your work!
Well, first off, I’d like to join the applause: granted, it wasn’t the biggest shock given that we already knew Rictor was into guys (didn’t he tell someone on the team a few years ago?), but still, way to follow through!
Just out of curiosity, though: why Shatterstar? I’ll admit I’m not overly familiar with his history, but it seems like an odd choice – as far as I know, he hasn’t been around since the Big Giant Shoulderpads era of X-Force back in the ’90s…
X-Factor 45: Thank you for a GREAT story. Great characters and an exciting scene that was surprising and powerful. Count me in as another new reader who will put this comic on my pull list.
I think WordPress ate my last post, so:
First off, kudos to Peter for the last-page twist: not the biggest shocker, since we already knew Rictor was into guys (didn’t he tell someone on the team a few years ago?), but still a pleasant surprise.
That said, I’m curious as to why you picked Shatterstar specifically – granted, I’m only vaguely familiar with that particular character, but wasn’t he one of those Ubiquitous Shoulderpads of Unconquerable Width folks from the early ’90s?
Bravo! Thank you so much for the kiss. I think the kiss hints at a love story, the subtext and foreshadowing from years ago, etc., all hint at a very deep love story between the two heroes and I really hope you flesh out that story for us.
Aside from Wiccan and Hulkling, (not even Northstar has had a proper love story) Marvel really hasn’t published an adult take on a gay relationship. While I realize that comic books by their nature are action stories, I think there’s room for a little bit of love in the world. Lord knows, the X-universe is a dark enough place as it is that it could use a little love.
Thanks again, Peter. It really means a lot to me that you’re willing to go there.
Random non-Rictor speculation: when the government guys are shown monitoring Doom and Layla and Jamie… the view looks like it could be from Ruby’s POV, wonder if she could be bugged or somesuch?
Can you believe that even more than the kiss, I liked the way Ric simply knew a lot about Shatterstar, like when he informs Guido about Shatty’s hollow bones.
I was thinking about how they know each other very deeply. That was great.
BTW, I was shocked when I saw the kiss. I didn’t expect it.
I will stay first that honestly I have not picked up an issue of X-Factor in a long time….last time was when Havok and Polaris were on the team. That has all changed….I have been hearing from many people how good the book.
Peter I want to thank you for doing what are you doing with Shatter and Ric. I have always been impressed with your writing and I am definitely going to be picking X-Factor up now.
As a long time gay reader, my hat off to you Peter.
• 
Since the only days I get comics are day when there’s a new X-Factor – today was a good day(man, did Marvel decide to put out a lot of stuff today…)!
Great issue!
Did I detect a mention of the unaccounted for time traveling clone? Hmmmm. A moment I’m sure lots of fans were looking forward to/wondering about/dreading for years! Hah. Good times.
And Cortex can communicate across ? And so easily? I’m intrigued…
Okay, you’re going to make me go back and reread that ish (for like the 123th time!) I did NOT pick up anything about the clone. What the heck did I miss.
PAD – seriously- if you talked about the 2nd dupe that everyone so conveniently forgot about, I will love you more than I loved the ending….
Got XFACTOR, Gotham Sirens, Green Lantern and Detective.
I think Detective is the pick of the week, with a combination of a good script and eye-popping artwork and coloring.
Plus the hardcover of SIR APROPOS OF NOTHING came out.
I got the new X-Factor, and, as a longtime X-Force (the real one) fan…I APPROVE.
Detective Comics – Really liked Kate Kane’s solo debut (even though the baddies relate to the inane Book of Crime, again). Loved Renee Montoya’s return as the Question. My only qualm is that a few of JH Williams’ otherwise gorgeous pages cross over into excessive cheesecake.
Sirens of Gotham – Speaking of cheesecake, this fluffy and forgettable comic is almost nothing but cheesecake. Dini is closer to his Countdown work than his Detective work here, and Guillem March does little to make me think this book will ever be anything but T&A. Not coming back next month.
The Literals – The grand finale of the unexpectedly delightful and funny Great Fables Crossover. I’m a bit sad to see it end, since I think that the regular Fables book will go back to being humorless.
I read X-Factor last night and all I have to say is, I love you PAD. I love you so much!
WOW. Huge lot of comics, I actually spent over $100 in one week (my budget is $100 a month) so this took some financial work on my part.
Freddy, Jason and Ash – I love Bruce Campbell and the Evil Dead movies, all these characters are just fun and the comic didnt disappoint. In a world where I have to wait months for a convoluted and delayed series like Legion Final Crisis and so 3000 Dark Reign miniseries, this is like a nice relaxing bath…in blood.
Gotham Sirens – Loved the art and the writing, made me sad that I seemed to have missed so much of the Batman Universe of late.
Green Lantern & X-Factor – Almost each month these two titles tie for most loved. When these issues come out they go right to the top of the pile. And Peter David Thank you for that wonderful scene with old friends Rictor and Shatterstar.
JSA- bored, which is odd, I love the series as a whole and a huge fan of Jerry Ordway art.
Thunderbolts – manages to scare and entertain.
All Avenger titles – If you had told me in 1995 that there would be almost as many Avengers titles as there were X-men titles I would have laughed and kicked you in the shin.
Many more titles, but didnt get to them. At 39 I am going back to school to finish a degree I abandoned in 1990. So I needed to do some homework and then swim a little to lose weight that I have slowly been gaining since 1990.
I also picked up the standard slew of X & A books:
*Astonishing was disappointing but pretty (but at least a somewhat novel approach for X-Men)
*Uncanny was amusing and ended predictably
*I picked up the Utopia thing just for Silvestri on X – but the whole storyline looks really obnoxious
*I was going to drop Avengers Initiative, but the underground will keep me in it. God I hate Osborn, so tired of him. I’ll take “bad Tony Stark” any day over this – plus the whole Osborn thing really would have ran better during the Bush years.
*New Avengers was decent, but I’m not big on the stereotypical accent that comes in and out on Dr. Voodoo.
*As mentioned, X-Factor continues to excel.
*Guardians of the Galaxy still rocks, lots of balls in play.
*I really wish Captain Britain & MI13 hadn’t been canceled – it’s consistently the second or third best book in my pull.
*Mighty Avengers is at least keeping me wondering what’s coming next.
Rictor & Shatterstar- glad to see it! You are the best!!! Been waiting for this ever since their X-Force days! Can’t wait for the next issue- although, I say that every month with this title!
Thank you for writing this book!
X-factor: Enjoying it. I like adult(ish) Layla better than 13-year old Layla. Dr. Doom was fun; and I enjoyed the reveal there. Not entirely sure where all this is going, but I really enjoy the characters that are going there.
Avengers Initiative: Going pretty much on Momentum for me. New Warriors #1 (1990) and that era WC Avengers were among my first serious collected comics so I’m going mostly on Nostalgia.
New Avengers: I dig Dr. Voodoo. Maybe it’s a kind of obvious play on Voodoo Doctor, but I dig it.
Dark Avengers: The novelty’s wearing off, but still fun.
Thor: Not sure how I feel about it. A little sorry to see the Odinforce go; I enjoyed the nice balance struck with Thor going about his godly business and not being just a superhero.
Nova: Liked this follow up/clean up issue much better than the ‘Major Arc Conclusion’ in the previous.
Astonishing: It’s pretty. I’ve really enjoyed a lot of Warren Ellis, but I think he crossed the line from ‘High Concept’ to weird and boring. I like Forge. I like him conflicted, I like him off-balance. I don’t like him as an out of touch psycho.
Green Lantern: I’m having a lot of fun with the war of the light. Really enjoyed the Guardians’ “diplomatic” solution to its conflict with Agent Orange.
Last Days of Animal Man: Earth’s Green Lantern is a Baleen Whale. That’s kind of awesome.
Haven’t picked up my books yet (but I have two issues of X-Factor waiting for me so I’m excited for that) but I did read the Peter David Interview Retrospective thingie on comicbookresources, and it’s a real entertaining read. My favourite bits, when asked about the hook-hand the answer goes: “Number one, it’s a freaking harpoon. Can we get on the same page with that? It’s not a hook. It was never a hook.” And when asked about the Marv Goes Insane storyline in Captain Marvel (which I liked a lot) the quote goes: “I developed the storyline to play to what I saw as Chris’s strengths as an artist. In this case, his strength lay in drawing people who looked as if they were nuts.” Big chuckle there.
Iz here:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21760
Picked up X-Factor and Wolverine: First Class. Both were AMAZING. The Siryn/Dazzler team-up was was great. It was especially nice seeing Theresa in a lighter and more comedic role with everything she’s been through in X-Factor recently. Thumbs up to you for pulling off the huge contrast!
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X-Factor was amazing. The fight scene was exciting as hëll, and that last page just floored me. Thank you SO MUCH for that, and pulling that off the way you did. It’s been a long time coming and could’ve easily gone all wrong. I’m totally anticipating the next issue now!
i releally enjoyed the dazzker book thats what im calling it plus woleverene funny in 2 books a record
I read Wolverine:First Class and X-Factor yesterday.
W:FC was adorable! Loved the “twist” in the end. And Wolverine was being such a bìŧçh to Dazzler it made me LOL.
About X-Factor? You delivered, as usual! The Dr.Doom twist made me feel so sorry about him… I don’t think I was supposed to, though..hehe!
Oh, and that last page… it better not be undone/dismissed by the next issue! I just hope Rictor doesn’t shove him away and ask WTF is going on…!
More Dazzler! Best issue of W:FC to date! She was too cute for words. The entire character dynamic between the four was stellar.
Pad~ Please say you’re going to review the Transformers movie. It was already dissappointing that you skipped out on Terminator Salvation. Think of the children!
JC– I’m not PAD but here’s a quick review of T:ROFL.
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My ears! My eyes! My brain!
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That said, it’s not as bad as some of the reviews made it seem, which is a shame since a genuine 200 million dollar trainwreck would be more fun to watch. All I can say is that it appears that Michael bay looked at every review of the first movie, saw what the reviewer did not like, and made sure this movie was 4 times worse. It would be as though George Lucas made Attack of the Clones with the intention of making it all Jar-Jar all of the time.
Hey PAd– if you stick around on W:FC is there any chance of Lockheed showing up? That would be cool. Or how about the return of Eye-Scream?
On the X-Factor front– I’ll send a real letter soon. As soon as I think of something to top my letter (the one that got published) in Supergirl.
Nothing new this week, but while looking for a particular item as a gift yesterday, my quest took me to another area comic shop, where I bought myself Vol. 5 of Hulk Visionaries: Peter David. Included in this collection is Incredible Hulk Annual #16, which I’d never read before. I can only assume I never saw it on the shelf and/or my (sadly long gone) comic shop at the time didn’t include that annual in my pulls.
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It’s also possible I deliberately decided not to get it because it was part 3 of four of some storyline called “Life Form”, which I’m assuming crossed various annuals.
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Anyway, the Hulk annual featured a return appearance of Mercy, the female-looking alien who decides that killing you is a kindness. Or used to. In this story, she learns that not everyone who says they want to die really does. So, feeling somewhat embarrassed by her previous actions, Mercy’s not quite as willing to send people to that undiscovered country anymore.
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Which isn’t such great news for a guy named George. He’s desperate to die.
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There are some nice points to all that, and to the “debate” among Banner, the (grey) Hulk, the Life Form and George; but my favorite scene was the one where the Army Colonel gives the Hulk a piece of his mind after the Hulk trashed his platoon– a platoon that had simply been on night maneuvers; they weren’t looking for him, and didn’t even know he was in the area. The panel of the discombobulated Hulk being taken aback as the Colonel tears into him is priceless.
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For some reason, the entire annual wasn’t reproduced in this collection. Other stories mentioned on the annual’s cover were absent. Presumably because PAD didn’t write them. But then he didn’t write the two page piece that followed his story. Wonder why that was included? Maybe because Herb Trimpe did the art, and he’s considered a classic Hulk artist whose work Marvel was happy to include, albeit briefly? Or maybe it had something to do with the required total page count of the collection, and those two pages were a perfect fit.
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Anyway, I enjoyed re-reading all those issues, as well as reading what, to me, was a new issue of PAD’s run on Hulk. Too bad the whole “Life Form” story had to be a crossover, but again, I loved that scene of the Hulk literally flinching from the outraged Colonel.
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On a related note, consider the line regarding the TV incarnation of the Hulk, “and now, when David Banner grows angry or outraged…” Outraged in what sense? As in this scenario? He’s at the supermarket, buying groceries, and he gets to the dairy section.
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“Milk is how much?!”
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By the way, the last story in that collection is the one where Bruce and Betty are reunited after his apparent death in Middleton. The one where Bruce fails to get to Betty’s train and time and falls to the tracks in defeat as it heads around a corner. PAD himself has criticized the ending because he thought it was a bit of stretch for the readers to buy the last page where Bruce looks up and Betty’s standing there on the track. He said something to the effect that Betty would somehow have to have sensed that Bruce was nearby, pulled the emergency cord and jumped off the train. All stretching credulity. No, that’s only the rumors of a Fantastic Four/Plastic Man team-up.
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Myself, I never had that problem with that scene. Not when the issue first came out, and not yesterday, aware of PAD’s own criticisms. Since there was no “sound effect” of the train suddenly stopping (unless this collection failed to reproduce it), it seemed to me that Betty either never got on the train (she seemed to hesitate a bit in the scene with the conductor), or that she simply jumped off before it began moving very fast (it was just starting and going around a bend, don’t forget)– possibly from the back of the last car– and wasn’t seen by anyone else on board. Which would also explain the lack of train-stopping sound effects.
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While Betty not having gotten on the train would make the most sense (though she couldn’t be standing in front of Bruce as he lifted his head); the station’s behind him, her having jumped off the train still works. I mean, as opposed to pulling the emergency cord. As to why she would leave a train after having just gotten on board, the most logical explanation is that she made a sudden decision not to run off to wherever, but to stay in Darrien, Connecticut and either live her life or find out just what was up with whoever it was she encountered in the church confessional (Bruce, as she’d soon discover) or both. Either that, or she’d recently been bitten by Peter Parker and acquired some spider sense.
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Other great moments included the “Ears fellow?” scene from the issues involving the Hulk, Submariner and Dr. Strange. Good stuff.
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Rick
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P.S. While I didn’t find that gift item yesterday, a place I went to today had it.
By an interesting coincidence, last night I watched a movie that I’d scheduled for viewing this weekend some time ago: Back to the Future Part III. The film features a scene in which a woman impulsively stops a train in motion.
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It also features a scene of Marty McFly doing the Moonwalk.
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A double dose of irony there.
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Rick
Mr David,
Just wanted you to know that #45 will be my last issue of X-FACTOR. Why can’t liberals keep their politics to themselves? It is my contention that alternative lifestyles are inappropriate for all-ages comics. Before the liberal haters come out of the woodwork, I believe in live and let live. For MAX books, adults only, self-published comics, Vertigo, etc., anything goes. But in books with caped folks throwing tanks–what do fighting bad guys and amazing powers have to do with alternative lifestyles? Kids and teenagers are exposed to these books–is that really the best place for them to be exposed to two guys kissing? All I ask of my superhero comics is a good adventure story, not your personal soapbox for political issues.
It just reeks of pushing your politics down my throat. I know Marvel and DC are full of it, and it’s wrong. I don’t mean to be picking on you, but I generally like your writing. I just can’t stand your constant liberal dogma overwhelming everything you write, personally and professionally.
Since everyone’s so sensitive these days, I suppose I have to point out that I am not advocating a boycott, saying bad things about the writer or artist or their ancestry, or demanding Peter David’s firing from the book. Mr. David, you go to great lengths to ask what fans think of the book and your writing. Here it is. I am finished with X-FACTOR, a book I liked. I’m thinking about avoiding your writing generally too. Not sure about that. Please change your writing style to where not every character you write is a liberal Democrat. Except the villains, of course. I’m sure they’re all conservative Republicans. If people want intimate gay contact in their fiction, there are plenty of outlets for that. Why taint superhero comic books?
Jerry Smith said:
“Before the liberal haters come out of the woodwork, I believe in live and let live.”
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That, Mr. Smith, is an obvious lie. If you truly believed in live and let live, you would simply stop buying the book instead of coming here to file a weak-assed protest. Go crawl back into your cave.
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You would also obviously not have any problem with a conservative viewpoint being displayed in a comic book. In fact, you cheer for such.
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And it’s also (enough ‘also’s for you, ya Palin lover?) obvious that you know you are wrong about this, because of your own hate speech calling me a liberal hater, as I don’t hate you, Mr. Smith, I pity you. Pity you like I would a stray, half starved dog that got run over by a semi on a busy highway.
“That, Mr. Smith, is an obvious lie. If you truly believed in live and let live, you would simply stop buying the book instead of coming here to file a weak-assed protest. Go crawl back into your cave.”
Anyone doubt that liberals can’t EVEN DISCUSS a viewpoint different than theirs? Exhibit #1.
“You would also obviously not have any problem with a conservative viewpoint being displayed in a comic book. In fact, you cheer for such.”
Yes, because there are no conservative viewpoints in mainstream comics. Everyone is a liberal, every character votes Democrat and loves to point it out. Every preacher or conservative is a villain. And I’m wrong for wanting a conservative viewpoint in any comic anywhere that is not mocked? Okay …
Yes, because there are no conservative viewpoints in mainstream comics. Everyone is a liberal, every character votes Democrat and loves to point it out.
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When I was writing “Incredible Hulk,” Betty Banner was depicted as a solid Republican who had very little patience with what she saw as dithering Democrats who wanted to underfund the military. Bill Clinton was portrayed as a dithering waffler who needed to consult Hillary before making a decision.
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The only individual in X-Factor who has stated any liberal views was Guido, which is why I’m then going to be depicting him as unaccountably skeeved by Rictor and Shatterstar: To examine the notion of liberal hypocrisy.
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Which you of course won’t be reading.
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Because when it comes to someone whose actions are informed by, and controlled by, political viewpoints, the one who has that problem isn’t me. It’s you.
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PAD
“Why can’t liberals keep their politics to themselves?”
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What does a kiss have to do with politics?
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“But in books with caped folks throwing tanks–what do fighting bad guys and amazing powers have to do with alternative lifestyles?”
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What do fighting bad guys and amazing powers have to do with traditional lifestyles? If superheroes don’t qualify as alternative lifestyles, I don’t know what does.
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“Kids and teenagers are exposed to these books–is that really the best place for them to be exposed to two guys kissing?”
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Certainly not. The best places for them to be exposed to it are movies and television. Comics have too small an audience.
I really hate to break it to you, but sexual persuasion itself isn’t a political issue. Gay marriage is. But there are folks down the street from me who have voted Democratic for as long as they’ve been voting, but are opposed to gay marriage on religious grounds. If homosexuality has been politicized at all, it’s in relation to issues such as marriage or serving in the military, neither of which was the topic at hand.
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Furthermore, your fundamental objection is flawed because X-Factor isn’t an all-ages book. It’s rated T+.
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And the best thing of all is that in an upcoming issue, the liberal Guido is depicted as being extremely uncomfortable with Rictor and Shatterstar’s relationship. You would probably appreciate it…except you won’t be reading it. Of course, if you wanted to read my genuine “all ages” work, there’s “Wolverine: First Class.” Fun series. But you won’t be reading that either, apparently.
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Your loss.
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PAD
Hey, no fun with the spoilers, LOL.
Poor Guido. He never noticed it before.
So it is OK for Starfire and Nightwing to make out frequently and having thousands of sleepovers when they were in New Teen Titans?
So it is OK for Storm and Forge to kiss each other in The Uncanny X-Men?
So it is OK for Superman to kiss Lois Lane, Wonder Woman and Lana Lang?
So it is OK for this, that and there … except for Rictor & Shatterstar kissing each other? And you decry this as liberals stuffing into your lives?!
Let’s just face the truth — It has nothing to do with liberalism. It has much to do with your homophobia.
R-
Mr. Smith —
X-Factor is labeled T+. It is not, by any definition, an all-ages book. I certainly would never allow a child to read some of the issues of this comic, like, for instance, the early issue in which Siryn was captured, gagged, and tortured. But I’m sure you don’t have a problem with that. After all, it’s a proven fact that depictions of love are far more hazardous to minors than extreme violence. Why, I’m sure Rictor and Shatterstar’s conjoined lips are scarring thousands of young minds as we speak!
Thank you for reminding us all why it’s still an act of guts and bravery for writers like Mr. David to include even the mildest expressions of same-sex romance in their comic books. And thank you, Mr. David, for having that courage. I look forward to following Rictor and Shatterstar’s story, wherever you should take it. Even if it turns out to be a fakeout, I’m glad this panel exists.
Thank you. And no, it’s not a fake out. A number of people seem to be concerned that Star is still under Cortex’s control. Or that Rictor is going to freak out the next panel and say, “Dude, what the hëll?”
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That would be cheap. I don’t do cheap. Okay, sometimes I do, but not this time. I’m not interested in having people say, “Peter David introduced this and then chickened out.”
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PAD
Mr. David —
That’s such a relief to hear. Not that I don’t trust you as a writer, but comics fans quickly get used to last-page reveals not being quite what they seem, so I didn’t want to jump to conclusions. Keep up the good work!
In the context of all the previous references to Rictor’s sexuality I’m half-expecting the next issue to start with them saying “what’s the big deal, I’m just greeting my best friend who I haven’t seen in years, it’s just a European thing.”
I’m glad to read this.
I was afraid Ric might react that way.
Thanks for saying that won’t happen.
Jennifer said:
“X-Factor is labeled T+. It is not, by any definition, an all-ages book.”
Not good enough. It should carry an “Adults Only” designation.
Jennifer said:
“I certainly would never allow a child to read some of the issues of this comic, like, for instance, the early issue in which Siryn was captured, gagged, and tortured. But I’m sure you don’t have a problem with that.”
Thanks for letting me know I have no objection to torture. Is that what passes for reasoned discussion on this board? You are definitely entitled to your opinion. I happen to not agree. And it’s hardly an “act of bravery” to push same sex relationships at Marvel. It seems like writers actually HAVE to do it sometime in their six-issue block or be blacklisted from the company.
Yes, I would call that reasoned discussion. Since you’ve clearly had no problem with the T+ rating on all 44 previous issues of X-Factor, which you’ve read and apparently enjoyed, then by your own logic you approve of presenting torture to children, but not kissing. Otherwise you would have dropped the book for self-righteous reasons years ago.
This is, to my knowledge, the first romantic male/male kiss to be featured in a Marvel comic. That’s a far cry from writers being forced to include same-sex relationships in their stories. But I suppose when you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and when you’re a homophobe, it always looks like the gays are out to get you.
Frankly, I wish I lived in the world you’ve invented.
Not good enough. It should carry an “Adults Only” designation.
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So now you’re changing your story. It’s not about the kids. It’s about the teens?
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Why not just admit it’s about you. You don’t like gays. And you don’t like people who don’t have a problem with gays, i.e., me. Because that’s why you are not only going to stop reading X-Factor, but everything I write.
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Right? Just say you don’t like gays and people who don’t have a problem with gays and stop dancing around it.
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PAD
No changing of stories. In my original post I said alternative lifestyles portrayed in comics should have certain restrictions, one of which is that they should be labeled “Adults Only.” As for not liking gays–this is America, do what you want. My girlfriend’s sister would be surprised to hear that–she and her partner are good friends. No, my simply stated opinion was that alternative lifestyles are inappropriate for mainstream comics, for many reasons. Wrong for children, has nothing to do with superhero adventure stories, and allows the writer to push his/her liberal beliefs doen the throats of an unwilling populace. No hate here fellows, as much as you want to think so.
Jerry, if you’re going to deny that your problems with the issue (in both senses of the word) merely stem from your own personal discomfort with homosexuality, at least make a convincing argument. “Wrong for children?” How so? “Nothing to do with superhero adventure stories?” So superheroes can’t have a personal life? What does Clark Kent marrying Lois Lane have to do with superhero adventure stories? “Allows the writer to push his/her liberal beliefs”? Again, what does two men kissing have to do with liberal politics?
Mr. Smith —
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Somewhere above, you claim all comic book characters are written as liberal, and that you hate liberal.
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So it must be asked — Why are you still reading comic books if they all offend you so much.
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Ya know what? Just go the Hëll away.
Sorry if English is your second language–can you point out where I said I hated liberals? They’re wrong, misguided, maybe. But why would that engender hatred?
Mr. Smith —
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Read my post carefully, and you’ll see that I didn’t say you hated liberals, I said you hated liberal, which you do.
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It’s like when you say you don’t hate gays, but you do hate the sin. You don’t hate us liberals, but you do what what we believe.
It seems like writers actually HAVE to do it sometime in their six-issue block or be blacklisted from the company.
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Are you really this thick, or just putting on a show?
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But, by all means, please show us EVERY example in the last 6 months of writers HAVING to do this. We’re waiting.
Peter David: Many years ago, I interviewed you for Silent News, a national newspaper for deaf and hard of hearing about Supergirl that basically stumbled upon the residential deaf school and all that stuff.
You do not know how many Deaf people bought it and saved it — many of them do not read comic books but when they heard of you, they ran to buy it — why? Because it was the first time that an issue touched something that is close to their identity.
And today, you brought Rictor and Shatterstar to each other. When I was a kid, I admitted that I had the hots for Rictor. I was kinda irked when Rictor cared for Rahne. I never cared much for Shatterstar. But as of today, I learned through PerezHilton.com that Rictor & Shatterstar is into each other. I scrambled to find out who wrote it … it was you, Peter.
Out of many writers, you’re bold. I admire that in you. Kordax, Aquaman, Supergirl & deaf kids and now Rictor & Shatterstar!
So for that dude who said that the issue should be designated for adults because there was a gay kiss … c’mon! Why do you think I had hots for Rictor when I was 12?
R-
Jerry Smith,
If it’s inappropriate for two males to be kissing in a comic book, then it should also be inappropriate for a male and a female to be kissing, too. Why would two males kissing be that much more “adult?”
There was no sexual contact.
You also said this:
“But in books with caped folks throwing tanks–what do fighting bad guys and amazing powers have to do with alternative lifestyles? Kids and teenagers are exposed to these books–is that really the best place for them to be exposed to two guys kissing? All I ask of my superhero comics is a good adventure story, not your personal soapbox for political issues.”
What do fighting bad guys and amazing powers have to do with romance at all, period?
There are a lot of comics out there to choose from. If you don’t like a choice made in an X-Factor comic book there are many other choices for homophobic bigots like yourself. From how I see it, you’re no different from how someone would have been in 1966 upon reading that – oh noes! – there is a BLACK character in the new issue of Fantastic Four!
For me, I think it’s great that Peter David is giving readers (AND young people) possible POSITIVE gay role models. And by having Rictor and/or Shatterstar going in that direction, guess what, they’re only 2 characters vs. thousands of heterosexual heroes in the Marvel Universe. I’m enjoying X-Factor (and PAD’s work) even more because of his willingness to “go there.” But as for the kiss itself, if I had children, I’d find something like that even less offensive than say a Code-approved book where it is obvious an unmarried Clark Kent and Lois Lane just had sex.
Your mileage may vary.
I wanted to join in my thanks to you, Peter, for finally more-than-just-hinting. Admittedly I was a waffling fan, especially after Rictor being together with Rahne again and the whole mess with Jamie and Theresa, but I’ve actually gone back to my Marvel subscription of your comic now with these more recent issues. I’ve also gotten several of my friends to start picking it up because of this.
I’m also very, very glad to see you aren’t going to have it “retconned” in a few issues. My largest fear was that Rictor was going to freak out, especially given that Guido’s watching as his earlier predilection towards acting more “macho,” as he might put it. Though you’ve done a lot with him since X-Factor began to show that that’s no longer who he is. I can see the slow-buildup– for example, his earlier conversation with Jamie after he slept with both M and Theresa about Quicksilver.
Though I’m also curious to see why Mr. Smith was alright with children or teenagers reading an explicit torture session but not watching a gay male kiss? Or at least alright with it enough not to stop reading out of moral repulsion.
Look at that, PAD. With one tiny panel of two fully-clothed, adult, non-related men kissing, you’ve managed to pìšš øff at least one homophobe. Good work! If he wants to boycott your writing because he’s more skeeved out by guys showing affection than by women getting beaten and gagged or helpless newborns disappearing into nonexistence, it’s his loss.
Mr.Jerry Smith.
Don’t try to make this political! There are homophobic liberals and gay republicans all over your country who would disagree with your generalisations.
You’re simply a homophobe that was suprised to see a man-to-man kiss “tainting” his superhero comic.
I’m sure if it was two evil chicks kissing instead, it wouldn’t have been that much of a problem.
Also, don’t try to make it like Marvel and DC are trying to shove gay liveral stuff down your throat. The percentage of gay relationships in comics are way less than it is in real life, but I guess it’s still big enough for you to think that the comics are full of gratuitous gay relationships that piss you off.
I’m sure that teens are aware that there are men who like to kiss one another, they wouldn’t expect a comic like “X-Factor”(which was never a simple “caped folks throwing tanks” book to begin with) to shock them with the “sad truth”. Also, there is no such thing as an “alternative lifestyle”. One can either be gay/bi or not, there’s no choice or lifestyle whatsoever and it doesn’t have to affect any other aspect of one’s life.
P.S. I am not a liberal *hint hint*
P.S.2. When I use the word “homophobe” I don’t mean it in the common, hateful sense. You’re just a person that didn’t have the privilege to hang out with decent homosexual people and realise that they’re not the devil and they’re not out to get you. Maybe someday you will, maybe not, it doesn’t matter in the greater scheme of things.
P.S.3 PAD, you are all kinds of awesome!
Yes there is nothing ADULT about 2 men kissing. If a comic can feature a man and a woman kissing then there is no reason whatsoever that 2 men or 2 women can’t kiss. Heck we’ve seen men and women in bed wearing nothing but a well placed sheet. This was practically Howdy Doody Time in comparison.
Just echoing my compliments to you PAD for finally doing away with the innuendo (loved the innuendo mind you) and not making it a fake-out. I know I can’t wait for each issue.
This was the book that got me back into comics and it’s still my fave each month.
Oh well… lose one reader, gain another.
I haven’t read comics in 8 years; simply because the task of purchasing everything that I wanted became so dámņ tedious that I just gave it all up. Then I came across the ending to X-Factor 45 and decided it was time to return.
Props to Marvel and Peter David for showing, God-forbid, homosexuality in a mainstream comic; and more importantly, managed to do it without an “Adult” rating. Clearly, this was NOT an adult situation and is nothing to hide from younger readers. It’s about time…
Here here! lose one gain two it would seem. I’ve moved away from Marvel comics in the past couple of years mainly due living a full 2 hour drive from the nearest comic shop and also because I became more involved in small press but upon hearing about issue 45 of X-factor I made the effort to head to my “local” and stocked up on trades and back isssues.
Thank you Mr. David for finally doing something I thought should have happened waaaaaaaaaay back in X-force. I was ten at the time, didn’t know what gay meant but I still knew those two where more then friends.
For reference, the recent issue of Cable, #15, is also rated T+. And inside is plenty of guns blazing, claws slashing, and even Deadpool being torn in two.
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But let us all remember: two adults of the same sex kissing is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR worse than somebody being ripped apart.
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Obviously.
Wow. Quite a debate on the kiss.
I was unaware of any ‘hinting’ that had gone before, so when Rictor and Shatterstar shared that one moment, it was a genuine (and very exciting) surprise.
I’ve enjoyed a great deal of your work, and I am now doubly excited to see you depict a (possible) gay relationship in your work. I’d read X-Factor anyways (have for 45 issues already), and this just gives another example of the rewards for doing so.
Thank you so much. I can’t wait to see what comes next. (Picture Dawn after Willow and Tara got back together in Buffy and you have an inkling of my excitement level).
Jeff P.
You know, that’s a part about the USA I probably will never understand.
Action scenes no matter how brutal, are rarely a point in a discussion about a movie or any other kind of entertainment. But a hint of any sexual conduct and you have protestors out to ‘protect the children’.
As I mostly hear the Black and White part of the news over here it always sounds like:
“We must protect the morals of our children, this is more important than protecting their lives.”
While I don’t agree with the strictness of our german weapons law, I question holding up morals over lives. It only comes up when a shooting happened and then only computer games portrayed as the problem. Rarely, if ever action movies or crime serials, never how the news report something.
Note: Given, news from other countries are rarely very specific and even rarer are are the reporters who understand what history has to do with the current mindset and can relate it to his listeners. Not to mention that we only get the so-called ‘relevant’ news. Every country has enough news dayly to fill anyones day, so foreign news are rated low on the interest scale unless one is involved.
Also, this was not intended as criticism, only as an observation how others see it. Some might say they are not interested in other points of view, but then I don’t know how many in the USA were surprised about the recent turnaround in Washington about the whole global warming stance. Sometimes other points of view can help.
I think I’m going to starting reading Marvel comics again because of this story line. I stopped buying Marvel on a regular basis after the over the top homophobic reaction to Northstar coming out from the Marvel execs.
I was further dismayed when they took Mystique and turned her into one of the 4 Whørëš of the the Apocalypse and had her hooking up with every guy she could find. It was like Marvel brass was trying to prove she’s really straight. Personally, I wished they made her solo series a MAX title and got her a new girlfriend, but that’s another discussion.
I view homophobia as no different from racism. If a company practices it I try and avoid those companies. It looks like Marvel might be creeping into the 21st century and if so, I’ll gladly support them. Plus I always like PAD’s writing.:) It was definitely hard to stay away! So, consider me as a gained buyer because of the storyline. PAD you ROCK!
Understand, Ashes, I don’t want to lose you as a new reader. But in regards to Northstar, I was on the inside for every moment of that, and I want to let you know that it was way more complicated than execs having a homophobic reaction. Remember, if Marvel execs had been homophobic, the storyline would never have been done in the first place.
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What happened was the Northstar story hit on a slow news day, where the various cable news networks had nothing better to do than go batshit crazy over a fictional character’s coming out. It went the 24-hour-cable news equivalent of viral. Which in and of itself wasn’t a problem.
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The problem was that a major retail chain (I think I remember which one, but I don’t want to chance getting it wrong, so I won’t be specific) informed Marvel that they were going to cease carrying all X-related merchandise because they didn’t want to carry something that even carry a whiff of controversy.
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So basically because Northstar came out, the MRC was going to cease carrying Wolverine action figures. This at a time when Marvel was making serious headway with its toy line.
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Now it’s easy for you and me to say that Marvel execs should have stuck to their guns and told the MRC to sod off. But we aren’t the ones whose jobs were on the line, suddenly having to explain to their bosses or stockholders why a promising toy line was suddenly going to lose a gargantuan national distribution outlet. The execs weren’t homophobic. The retail chain was. The execs were losingmoneyphobic, and when your job is to make money for the company, that isn’t an entirely unreasoning fear.
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Marvel execs promptly sent down an edict: nothing controversial. They didn’t say, “No more gays.” They didn’t want anything that even carried a whiff of controversy. An X-Factor storyline I’d written that centered on discussing abortion–a story that the editors told me when I wrote it was one of the best things I’d ever written–got gutted when the edict came down.
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I’ll grant you, it wasn’t Marvel’s finest hour, but if the Major Retail Chain hadn’t put the hammer down, Marvel execs absolutely wouldn’t have cared about Northstar’s sexual persuasion.
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I just thought you should know.
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PAD
Thanks for the info. I had heard various things before the issue came out that people were told they couldn’t make a character out right gay and when the issue came out all involve were let go. However, I wasn’t there firsthand, so I completely believe what you are saying.
I work in the film industry and can attest that profit is what controls what gets out and doesn’t. I do agree that it would have been nice if Marvel had stood up to the chain.
Once again, thanks for the response.
Thanks for the info. I had heard various things before the issue came out that people were told they couldn’t make a character out right gay and when the issue came out all involve were let go
No. Patently false.
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PAD
Peter, I posted a couple of comments addressing to you and Jerry Smith earlier in the day. It never came visible. Hope you can find it – if not, tell me so that I can re-do it. Sigh.
R-
PAD,
A job well done! I’ve always enjoyed how you developed Rictor’s character and I’m very excited to see how you are going to develop his relationship with Star. I’m really looking forward for the next issues!
as a card carrying gay geek, I thank you for a story a long time coming!
I’m glad to hear everything you’ve said above. It makes me an even MORE ardent fan, if that is possible! Love your work!
Well, first off, I’d like to join the applause: granted, it wasn’t the biggest shock given that we already knew Rictor was into guys (didn’t he tell someone on the team a few years ago?), but still, way to follow through!
Just out of curiosity, though: why Shatterstar? I’ll admit I’m not overly familiar with his history, but it seems like an odd choice – as far as I know, he hasn’t been around since the Big Giant Shoulderpads era of X-Force back in the ’90s…
X-Factor 45: Thank you for a GREAT story. Great characters and an exciting scene that was surprising and powerful. Count me in as another new reader who will put this comic on my pull list.
I think WordPress ate my last post, so:
First off, kudos to Peter for the last-page twist: not the biggest shocker, since we already knew Rictor was into guys (didn’t he tell someone on the team a few years ago?), but still a pleasant surprise.
That said, I’m curious as to why you picked Shatterstar specifically – granted, I’m only vaguely familiar with that particular character, but wasn’t he one of those Ubiquitous Shoulderpads of Unconquerable Width folks from the early ’90s?
Peter,
Bravo! Thank you so much for the kiss. I think the kiss hints at a love story, the subtext and foreshadowing from years ago, etc., all hint at a very deep love story between the two heroes and I really hope you flesh out that story for us.
Aside from Wiccan and Hulkling, (not even Northstar has had a proper love story) Marvel really hasn’t published an adult take on a gay relationship. While I realize that comic books by their nature are action stories, I think there’s room for a little bit of love in the world. Lord knows, the X-universe is a dark enough place as it is that it could use a little love.
Thanks again, Peter. It really means a lot to me that you’re willing to go there.
Random non-Rictor speculation: when the government guys are shown monitoring Doom and Layla and Jamie… the view looks like it could be from Ruby’s POV, wonder if she could be bugged or somesuch?
Thanks for this latest issue of X-Factor.
Can you believe that even more than the kiss, I liked the way Ric simply knew a lot about Shatterstar, like when he informs Guido about Shatty’s hollow bones.
I was thinking about how they know each other very deeply. That was great.
BTW, I was shocked when I saw the kiss. I didn’t expect it.
I will stay first that honestly I have not picked up an issue of X-Factor in a long time….last time was when Havok and Polaris were on the team. That has all changed….I have been hearing from many people how good the book.
Peter I want to thank you for doing what are you doing with Shatter and Ric. I have always been impressed with your writing and I am definitely going to be picking X-Factor up now.
As a long time gay reader, my hat off to you Peter.
Much thanks!