So recently the ol’ Cowboy’s seen “Incredible Hulk” and “Get Smart.” Comments below…
INCREDIBLE HULK: So many people have asked me what I thought of HULK, and I can’t fathom why. I mean, I work for Marvel and I wrote the novelization. Wouldn’t anything I had to say, especially positive, be suspect?
But, okay, you asked:
I loved it. I think all the edits they made were good ones. The many character-driven scenes which were cut, while well written and, for all I know, well acted, wouldn’t have moved the plot along. And the plot most definitely moves along, making it the anti-Ang Lee Hulk movie. The first half hour is, to my mind, the strongest, as we find ourselves in Bruce Banner’s world, hiding out in Brazil while searching for a cure. That’s when Norton is at his best. And the Hulk as menace-in-the-shadows is also the most effective use of the character, although the subsequent battles with the army and, climactically, with the Abomination, are lightyears ahead of the previous endeavor.
My only complaint is that I thought the chemistry between Bruce and Betty was somewhat lacking. He was almost more interesting when he was watching her from afar (although their abortive lovemaking scene was funny enough.)
Frankly, the high-light of the film, acting wise, is Tim Blake Nelson as Sam Sterns. Apparently channeling Matt Frewer’s manic energy, he seems to be having the best time of any actor in the film, and his presence as the fully empowered Leader will undoubtedly kick the sequel to new heights.
GET SMART–Kath and I have been looking forward to this film since the earliest trailers, and we were not disappointed.
I cannot fathom what the critics are carping about, save to say that their recollections of the original series are extremely suspect. The recurring complaint is that Steve Carrell plays Smart with a modicum of actual skill, rather than as an unrelenting buffoon. Except that’s EXACTLY the way he was in the original series. Yes, Smart was a comedic character, but he was a crack marksman, a formidable hand to hand opponent, and insanely conversant in the minutia of CONTROL protocol. That’s who he is in the film as well. The shout outs to the TV series are breezily interwoven into the film without being annoying. In fact, the opening credits features references to the series pilot and a fast reference to Max’s recurring opponent, the Claw (always announced with, “So! It’s my old enemy, the Craw!”, a monumentally politically incorrect joke that would probably never fly today.) And the cameo by Bernie Kopell (the original Siegfried) is brilliant. Indeed, Kopell’s presence highlights the film’s only shortcoming: Terrance Stamp as Siegfried brings absolutely nothing except glowering to the role. One wonders what a German accented Sasha Baron Cohen–or for that matter Kopell himself–would have added to the film by making Siegfried a more over-the-top presence than Stamp portrays.
Anne Hathaway is nearly as appealing as Barbara Feldon was originally (and she even wears her hair in Feldon’s style for an extended sequence.) And Alan Arkin is perfect as the Chief, looking like he’s having the time of his life. The plot…well, it’s kind of all over the place, but you never watched “Get Smart” for the plot. You watched it for the characters and the catch phrases, and all are present intact.
PAD
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I loved it. I think all the edits they made were good ones. The many character-driven scenes which were cut, while well written and, for all I know, well acted, wouldn’t have moved the plot along.
I’d have liked to see the Samson scenes that were in your novelization. In the movie, Samson contacting General Ross comes across as an act of jealousy rather while in the novelization it’s also out of concern for Betty. Jealousy is a believable motivation but I much preferred what was in the novelization (and, I assume, the screenplay).
Otherwise, this was an excellent movie. Hopefully in the sequel we’ll get to see a truly over-the-top feat of strength.
Back in 2004 I attended the Hulk panel you did with Bruce Jones and Paul Jenkins at DragonCon and you put into words what had been circling in my head regarding my problems with the Ang Lee Hulk. It was clear and to the point and I still quote it to this day when discussing the film.
That coupled with the fact that in my opinion you have a great handle on the character and his world are why I wanted your take on the current Hulk movie.
Yeah, I just hate it when people think the key to making a comedy is to make the lead a bumbling idiot. All that is good for is a couple of cheap laughs. The real genius is to blend the comedic with the competent. It gives suspense because you don’t know WHAT is going to happen next, and you’re laughing WITH the character–lot easier to root for a character that has a set of good qualities about them.
My one and only problem with “The Incredible Hulk” is simple and nit picky at best, with the final battle taking place in NYC and taking place for over 20 minutes… where were spiderman. dare devil. and the fantastic four. Are they unwilling to go to harlem? talk about a slow response time.
Well, the movie was The Incredible Hulk, not The Incredible Hulk And Some Other People.
The great thing about Marvel owning the properties now is that we CAN imagine scenes that tie all these movies together.
It would be great if the fantastic 4 reverted back to marvel and they could do a Silver Surfer/galactus movie the way it should be done.
I brought this up on my show yesterday. Was it in the novelization as to how exactly did Bruce Banner get into the country in todays day and age given the fact that he was a wanted man and most likely on the no-fly list? ‘Cause they didn’t explain that in the movie….
In the reviews published in Ottawa and Toronto that I’ve seen to date, most seem to be quite happy with Smart’s depicted competencies balancing out his flaws.
I actually found Hulk more exciting that Iron Man. Not necesarily saying it’s better, but in my mind, if you going to have a Hulk movie, than that’s how you end a Hulk movie, rather than “overloading the glowing cloud.”
The Get Smart movie wouold have been SO much better without SC. Am I the only one who finds him as irritating as all the other “I can act crazy and play the same character and still get paid a shitload of money for playing the same part”? over and over and over and over…..
John Conner wondered, since the last fight was in NYC, where the other NY superheroes were. This is one of those “willing suspension of disbelief” elements that’s prevalent in the Marvel and DC universes. Both of them are chock-full of superheroes, yet most comics are set up that only the star of that particular title can save the day. Batman has to stop the Joker from launching Gotham City into space; he doesn’t know that if he fails Superman can catch it, or Green Lantern can put it back with a giant green hand. Personally, I’ve always wanted to hear a villain muse, “Once I defeat the Defenders, the world is mine! Of course the Avengers will respond. And there are the X-Men, X-factor, and probably a few other groups of mutants out there. Thor — hate to face that guy, a frickin’ *god*! The Hulk is as mean as they get too! Spider-Man is pretty wiley… Is Captain America back from the dead yet? Maybe I’ll just go to Starbucks…”
Told you that it would be more welcomed than any movie critic’s review. 🙂
I was really looking forward to Get Smart as I was a big fan of the original series. I wasn’t disappointed either. It slowed down a bit near the end when it started trying to be an action movie but it maintained the spirit of the source material better than I thought it would. My main worries before seeing the movie were that Agent 13 and Hymie wouldn’t make an appearance and I was delighted to see that not only did they appear but that a couple of great actors took on the roles.
Hey, Roger Ebert loved “Get Smart”… while everyone else in the country was giving it C’s and D’s.
And the plot most definitely moves along, making it the anti-Ang Lee Hulk movie.
I think it’s interested that, based on what I’ve read, most of what was cut was the character scenes – the scenes where the characters really get fleshed out.
Granted, this tends to happen in most movies, but it seems that Marvel really pushed to do this if only to make the movie as distanced as possible from Ang Lee’s Hulk.
Maybe this is more of a guess, but it’s easy to see that Norton is upset because he was allowed to rewrite the script, added in all the character stuff. Then Marvel wants that all cut, because that’s exactly what they didn’t want in the film in the first place.
My biggest issue with The Incredible Hulk is that this incarnation of Betty Ross is the least believable lady scientist in film since Denise Richards played a “nuclear scientist” in The World is Not Enough. I don’t know if it’s Liv Tyler’s performance or that there just wasn’t much in the way of “science-y” things given to her to do, but nothing about this Betty says “cellular biologist” to me in any way. She seemed to be there only to do “love interest” things–pine for Bruce, empathize with Bruce, yell at daddy over Bruce, etc. Even in the scenes in Sterns’ lab, she’s only there to sit on the Hulk’s chest and tell him to stay calm. You’d think that with her doctorate and such, she could at least have been pushing a few buttons or monitoring some readouts, not to mention talking “shop” with Sterns and Banner instead of standing by while the men talk about science. I put my feelings thusly to a friend–there’s something a bit off when a guy thinks that the female lead needs to do something besides look pretty.
By the way, just finished the novelization yesterday (a nice read!), and PAD, I hope you’re satisfied with yourself for the comics-derived “easter eggs” stuck in there. Rick the dog, Saunders and Larroquette, Amadeus Cho, Betty’s friend Marlo….you know, I do most of my reading on break at work, and it’s apparently annoying to some of the guys when I’m sitting with my nose in a book and chuckling for (from their perspective) no discernable reason.
Chuck
“So! It’s my old enemy, the Craw!”, a monumentally politically incorrect joke that would probably never fly today.
I don’t get it. How is that a politically incorrect joke? I don’t even see the joke. Is it something to do with Craw/Claw? Or was that a typo?
Some kind soul please explain.
The gag is that the Claw is an Asian villain. The stereotype is that Asians are unable to pronounce the letter “L.” So presumably at some point in the past (we never actually see their chronological first encounter) the Claw introduced himself to Maxwell Smart who–unaware that the Claw could not say his own name properly–misunderstood and thought his name was “the Craw.” And the Claw, unable to nail the “L,” would become frustrated because he couldn’t get Max to say the name with the L…except presumably the Claw himself didn’t realize his own pronounciation was causing the disconnect. Consequently, whenever they would encounter each other again in the course of the series, it was always thusly:
SMART: So! It’s my old enemy, the Craw.
CLAW: No, not the Craw! The Craw!!!
In the 1960s, people laughed. In the 21st Century, you’d get a storm of protest from Asian organizations. Trust me on this: I once depicted two Japanese tourists taking photographs in “Incredible Hulk” and got nasty letters from a Japanese activist organization over how I was perpetuating stereotypes.
PAD
I would give Get Smart 3 stars, but on the basis of about 5 jokes in it, I’d bump it up to 3.5 stars.
Also, it has one of the funniest lines I’ve heard in movies since the very last line of Dodgeball fititingly enough.
My biggest fear since the Get Smart movie was announced was that Max was going to be played as stupid. I’m incredibly relieved that by all reports he isn’t.
I once depicted two Japanese tourists taking photographs in “Incredible Hulk” and got nasty letters from a Japanese activist organization over how I was perpetuating stereotypes.
If I recall correctly, didn’t you say those tourists were based on a couple of people you ran into a few times at a convention and every time they would insist on taking photographs with you?
Haven’t seen “Get Smart” but the Craw bit is classic and should have made it into the film. It’s pretty sad that people can’t take a little friendly ribbing these days.
Wow. Did not know the background on the character, or that there was an Asian letter-writing segment of the community that was so sensitive.
Thanks for the explanation though.
If I recall correctly, didn’t you say those tourists were based on a couple of people you ran into a few times at a convention and every time they would insist on taking photographs with you?
Exactly right. It was a Diamond trade show, if I recall correctly.
PAD
As a minor comic fan at best (I read Fallen Angel & X-factor & the New Frontier Star Trek…and that’s about it), I really enjoyed this incarnation of the Incredible Hulk. It was very exciting, very fast-paced without feeling rushed, and gave me the facts I needed to figure out what was going on without lengthy introductions. Being Canadian from a city very near Toronto, I really enjoyed the last fight scene in “Harlem” that was filmed on Yonge Street in Toronto, as I walk by all those signs and landmarks regularly – except there’s no Apollo theatre sign! Guess they edited that in. 🙂
Peter, I only read the first line of your Get Smart review, but I’m now breathing a sigh of relief. It’ll probably get a matinee viewing over the coming week.
If I recall correctly, Peter, weren’t you also careful to have the Japanese tourists not doing stereotypical things like spouting mangled “Engrish” (had that term been coined at the time?) or calling the Hulk “Gojira”? I know I was quite baffled reading the Hulk lettercol where one of the complaints was published….and the media here in the States has only become more annoyingly politically correct since then. *sighs*
Chuck
Ages ago, there was an Asian comic named London Lee who always started his act by saying, “Herro.” People busted up every time. Within about 5 minutes, he would say it correctly.
Hey there, please to meet you, John….
I remember a comic by the name of Henry Cho, a Korean-American by way of Texas. He would get up on stage, let everyone get a good look at his standard Asian features, then start his routine thusly:
When done right, and stereotype-busting is better than just parroting the stereotype these days, they can still be pretty funny. (IMHO, of course)
I know what you mean RobInJapan. I once saw a black comedian come on stage in sunglasses with a white cane. He introduced himself, told us he was from Georgia and then said he had to let us all know, he didn’t much care for black people.
Haven’t seen “Smart” yet, going to see “Hulk” in about an hour.
I noticed in the “Get Smart” trailer that there was a scene with a Sunbeam Tiger (which was Smart’s car till VW, who were sponsoring the show, put him in a KarmanGhia).
Soemone please tell me that it either survives or is a mock-up.
(BTW – Smart’s Tiger was Don Adams’ personal car. The per-episode budget was apparently slightly higher than that for “Dr Who” – but not much.)
Yes, it survives. There’s about a 45 second sequence in which every model of car that Maxwell Smart ever owned shows up, one after the other. Bernie Kopell, using his Siegfried accent, shows up in the course of it.
PAD
Saw it last night and enjoyed the hëll out of it… the pan of all the old memoribilia at the beginning had both Heather and I nudging each other gleefully… It was much better than I expected, based on the wildly fluctuating reviews – and to answer Dave W.’s comment up above, I hardly think Carrell is playing the same character over and over – there’s a lot more nuance to his performance of Maxwell Smart than you’re (apparently) not giving him credit for.
And although it was an easy laugh, I think Alan Arkin’s “pointed” response after a certain chase scene made me pull a muscle, I laughed so hard… 🙂
In terms of people who play with audience expectations, there’s a disabled comedian over here in the UK who would come on stage on his crutches and, just before reaching the mike stand, would throw them aside, grabbing at the stand to prevent himself from falling. Then, still hanging on to the stand, he’d point at the crutches and say:
“Look at them…they’re useless without me!”
Trust me on this: I once depicted two Japanese tourists taking photographs in “Incredible Hulk” and got nasty letters from a Japanese activist organization over how I was perpetuating stereotypes.
Clearly members of these organizations have never been to Disneyland. 🙂
Now, I’m not going to say that all Japanese that visit the states fit this stereotype, but they do exist in great numbers.
Well, now i have seen “Hulk”.
Fun, but not so much as “Iron Man” or “Kingdom of the Crystal Skull”.
I think i could hazard a guess as to the identity of the (or at least of “an”) antagonist if there’s another film.
Man, I’m glad that reaction to “Get Smart” is positive, except in the case of the critics, in which case who cares.
I’ve liked the original Don Adams version of “Get Smart” and liked it. Actually, I even liked the relaunch CBS tried in the 1980s with the son of Maxwell Smart, although I’m not sure who played Max’s son.
I love the fact that Max isn’t a buffoon. He’s semi-competent, but has some staggeringly bad luck. I think a lot of the comedy comes from him reacting or trying to rectify whatever situation he’s gotten himself into.
I saw THE HULK today, and I’d give it a B. While Edward Norton was Great, Liv Tyler just acted like a lovesick girl on the verge of tears the whole time. (And was William Hurt trying to act like Captain Stottelmeyer (sic) from MONK?)
Two thoughts:
1) When the Hulk was leaping from rooftop to rooftop, causing destruction in his wake, did that remind anyone else of the cartoon THE TICK?
2) [WITH SPOILER ALERT] At the end, when Stark approached Ross about forming his new team… who was he trying to recruit? The Hulk, who had proved uncontrollable? The Abomination, who was worse than the Hulk for seeking destruction for its own sake? Or was he seeking new recruits from Ross, who Stark criticised for restarting the Super Soldier program? It just didn’t make sense to me.
You just HAD to go and mention Matt Frewer, didn’t you, Pete? Now I’ve got visions of him from that horrid “Generation X” TV movie.
Not to mention his uncharacteristic performance as the Leader in the animated series.
You’re a bad, bad man.
>>> which was Smart’s car till VW, who were sponsoring the show, put him in a KarmanGhia….>>> which was Smart’s car till VW, who were sponsoring the show, put him in a KarmanGhia….< Actually, when they moved him to another network for his last season, (CBS, I believe) they stuck him in an 1969 Opel GT. Just a note from a fan who happens to be a gearhead. Bob
I remember a Ghia; i don’t recall the Opel. (Not to say that you’re wrong; just what i recall.
And i remember that godawful Barris custom Mustang with the zebra-hide inserts in the side sculpture panels.
Got to agree with the poster who said the portrayal of Betty was pretty lame.
Nobody’s reacted to my “next villain comment”. Either everyone deduced what i did or nobody cares (or, perhaps, tough as it may be on my ego, nobody cares what i say…).
I remember a Ghia; i don’t recall the Opel. (Not to say that you’re wrong; just what i recall.
And i remember that godawful Barris custom Mustang with the zebra-hide inserts in the side sculpture panels.
Got to agree with the poster who said the portrayal of Betty was pretty lame.
Nobody’s reacted to my “next villain comment”. Either everyone deduced what i did or nobody cares (or, perhaps, tough as it may be on my ego, nobody cares what i say…).
Yup, GM cars are all over the last season of Get Smart.
Somebody mentioned the short-lived revival with Max’s son. That was actually in 1995. Max was now Chief of CONTROL, 99 was a U.S. Senator (Barbara Feldon made one or two cameo appearances, but wasn’t a regular) and Andy Ðìçk played son Zach, who was really incompetent. He was paired with Agent 66 (Elaine Hendrix), who was supercompetent. Zach’s twin sister is acknowledged, but never shows up. The show only ran seven episodes and was apparently cancelled before it even aired, as it was running when NBC announced NewsRadio, also featuring Andy Ðìçk. At the NR announcement, Andy Ðìçk asked the crowd if anyone had seen Get Smart the night before, and when a few hands went up he apologized.
Pennyforth: My biggest issue with The Incredible Hulk is that this incarnation of Betty Ross is the least believable lady scientist in film since Denise Richards played a “nuclear scientist” in The World is Not Enough. I don’t know if it’s Liv Tyler’s performance or that there just wasn’t much in the way of “science-y” things given to her to do, but nothing about this Betty says “cellular biologist” to me in any way. She seemed to be there only to do “love interest” things–pine for Bruce, empathize with Bruce, yell at daddy over Bruce, etc.
So, it is ironic that she was protrayed in the show as she was in comics for decades?
The only thing that would have made The Incredible Hulk perfect for me was if they’d kept the Abomination’s distinctive face from the comics. That’s what really says “Abomination”!
Well, that and if the CG animators had been able to lick the problem of CG characters frequently appearing “weightless”. Even taking their strength into account, beings as massive as the Hulk and the Abomination should still look like they’re subject to the forces of gravity and atmosphere.
Ah, well — at least we were spared the sight of the Hulk swinging a tank around by its gun turret this time…
– Frank
KIP LEWIS:So, it is ironic that she[Betty] was protrayed in the show as she was in comics for decades?
A clarification of my dislike of Doctor-Betty-who-doesn’t-do-anything-“doctory” has been pointed out to me in further discussion with friends, and it actually relates a bit to your point: Why even make Betty a biologist in the film if it’s not going to be a factor in the character’s performance?
You’re right: The Incredible Hulk‘s Betty was not far off from the “damsel-in-distress” of the character’s early years (well, except for when Liv Tyler’s elbowing soldiers in the face or reading the riot act to cabbies)–but “comics Betty” never was, and has never been, a cellular biologist. In point of fact, it wasn’t until the last decade or so of stories prior to her comics death that Betty was shown regularly holding down a job–the rest of the time she was either still living with daddy, being someone’s live-in girlfriend (Samson’s) or wife (Talbot, Banner), or living as a nun and thus supported by the church. The only incarnations of Betty as any sort of scientist are the live-action films and the last two animated series.
So, I guess my real beef isn’t just, “Why was Betty stuck with nothing but girlfriend things to do?”; it’s, “Why even bother making Betty a scientist in the movie if you’re only going to give her girlfriend things to do?”
Or, why add a doctorate in cellular biology which the source version of the character doesn’t have, if the only bearing it’s going to have on the film version is an excuse for her to have been working with Bruce when the accident happened? She could have just as easily been Bruce’s girlfriend who was studying any given major at Culver, who just happened to be coming to visit Bruce or her father when Bruce was irradiated.
Chuck
Concerning Betty the scientist, not only was she scientist in the moviesn she was also one in the last Hulk cartoon.
Heroes Reborn made her a securities person and in Ultimates, she is in PR.
I greatly enjoyed Get Smart. I had seen the reservations by critics but was far too excited to listen. It was absolutely hilarious.
“You just HAD to go and mention Matt Frewer, didn’t you, Pete? Now I’ve got visions of him from that horrid ‘Generation X’ TV movie.
Not to mention his uncharacteristic performance as the Leader in the animated series.
You’re a bad, bad man.”
Aw, I liked that performance in the cartoon. That must be why it seemed so spot-on to me when I was watching the movie. Of course, I’ve never read much Leader stuff in the comics. Personally, I think the next time they make a Superman cartoon, they should cast Frewer as the Prankster. I think he’d be great.
Anyway, I’m glad to hear that Get Smart was good. I’m also glad to hear that Max wasn’t portrayed as completely incompetent. I hate when they do that. It’s one of the reasons I liked the Inspector Gadget movie more than the cartoons (another classic Don Adams role). I just hated how stupid and useless Gadget was in the show.
I finally saw this today, and I have to say, I liked it more than I thought I would (and certainly more than the Ang Lee film). It was nothing earth-shattering, but it was good, solid entertainment.
And I completely agree about Tim Blake Nelson. He was brilliant. Nobody will ever give him an Oscar nomination for it, but I honestly believe he deserves one.
“My one and only problem with “The Incredible Hulk” is simple and nit picky at best, with the final battle taking place in NYC and taking place for over 20 minutes… where were spiderman. dare devil. and the fantastic four. Are they unwilling to go to harlem? talk about a slow response time.”
Just because this movie takes place in the same world as Iron Man (and the future Avengers and Captain America films), it doesn’t mean the same is true of those other movies. I mean, where was Spider-Man in the Daredevil and FF movies, and vice versa? They’re all stand-alone movies.
Yeah, you could reasonably ask where Iron Man was during the fight, and the only answer is that he was just busy.