So we tuned into the William Shatner roast on Comedy Central last night, except–although I didn’t keep a running tally–it sure felt like there were more jokes about George Takei than there were about Shatner. Comedians–and I use the term extremely loosely–simply couldn’t get enough of making jokes about George’s having come out. Even George’s entire speech was about the subject. I give it four HSGs, which is the number of times I said, “Holy šhìŧ, George!” throughout the course of it. At least George carried it off with gentlemanly archness that provided amusing contrast to what he was saying. But…geez. An hour of jokes about George’s genitalia?
I was just–I dunno. It’s just that I’m old enough to remember the Friars Club roasts. And maybe they were watered down for TV and there were all kinds of dirty bits that got edited out, but the lacerations in those days were filled with wit and style and didn’t require endless expletives that had to get bleeped out. I don’t give a dámņ about profanity if it’s funny. It’s when it’s used as a substitute for humor–when people laugh in shock or discomfort at word choice rather than because it’s funny. Umpteen comments about George Takei shoving his bleep up someone’s bleep…that’s the state of American humor? Ironically it was Shatner who mostly got just the right mix in his closing comments, wryly commenting to George, “The people here certainly tore you a new áššhølë,” waiting a beat, then dropping his voice to a gravely mumble and adding, “But I’m sure you’ll find a use for it” before losing the high ground by making loud bleeped comments about oral gratification.
It just says something to me that most comedians anyone would have heard of–people who might have raised the level of the humor–didn’t come within ten miles of the event. And so the humor level was instead dragged down. There were a lot of genuinely funny comments, but Shatner’s semi-bewildered “Who the hëll ARE you people?” in his closing really underscored the problem and the C-Level of comedians who were in attendance. Ironically, Andy Ðìçk–whom I usually can’t stand–was actually funny in his incarnation as a devoted fan nerd, and there was one guy who talked about George’s revelation without being foulmouthed: The one who asked George if, when he came out of the closet, the door made that “shwip shwip” air noise of Enterprise doors (it was funnier in the telling than the retelling). Mostly, though, it was unimaginative easy shots.
We had a Stan Lee roast at a Chicago Comicon years ago. I was the toastmaster. Not a single profanity was uttered and the audience laughed itself silly.
Whatever happened to style?
PAD
• 
God, that wasn’t bad. That was just sad. I didn’t laugh through 80% of the thing. Shatner, as has been pointed out above, did a better job of it then the “comedians” working the roast. Hëll, my friends and I, Shatner fans all, have done a better job sending the man and his career up. My wife did a better job of it the first time I made her sit through Kingdom of the Spiders. Half the posters on this board have done a better job of it in the past.
The biggest problem I had was the blue nature of the humor. They got the blue part down without managing to get the humor part. There’s a difference between blue for blue’s sake and funny while blue. My three favorite stand-ups are Billy Connolly, Robin Williams and Eddie Izzard. They curse quite a bit. 25 to 30 % of the dialogue in Connolly or Williams’ acts are probably the word f**k or a variation of that word. But, if forced to remove the profanity and blue topics from their material, those three would still be funny as hëll clean. Most of the roasters used the blue as the set up, build up and punch line. There was no thought and no humor in it. It was like listening to a bunch of foul mouthed third graders.
The Dean Martin roasts: Still funny. I friend of mine got the DVD sets being sold on TV not that long ago. Not the 10s I remembered from my younger days but still 7s to 8s depending on the roast.
Now I need to look into Connolly’s stuff more, Jerry — based on the other two (whose work I like a lot, along with early Carlin), he’s probably worth it as well. Thanks for the recommendation, however inadvertent!
TWL
I don’t want to weigh in on the debate wether it was good or not, but I’d like to remind people that the old Dean Martin roasts were done for network TV, and everyone there knew it. According to what I’ve read while researching a book on comedy in the 40’s and 50’s, the roasts back then at the Friar’s Club when it was a private club for comedians only would make the Shatner Roast look like Sunday School.
I’ve only had a chance to skim these posts, so if someone else has mentioned this already, I apologize.
Several years ago, I saw a broadcast of some event commemorating a major Star Trek anniversary. I can’t remember which anniversary, but I do remember “Voyager” was still in first run at the time. It was set up like an awards show: an audience filled with Star Trek luminaries from all four T.V. series (“Enterprise” hadn’t debuted yet), including Shatner, Stewart, Nichols, Mulgrew, and more.
Ben Stiller gave a speech where he talked about how he fell in love with the original Star Trek. He made it clear he considered the original to be the “real” Star Trek, as opposed to “The New Generation” (sic) or “Deep Space Twelve” (sic).
My jaw dropped. I though, “Jesus! There’s cast memebers, producers, directors and writers from ALL OF THE SHOWS in the audience!!!! Is this guy a complete áššhølë, or just stupid?”
By the way, if you never saw the show, consider yourself lucky. It was bargain-basement all the way. They even did this awful sketch with Kate Mulgrew as Captain Janeway, commanding the bridge of Voyager with a crew consisting of Jane Leeves, John Mahoney, and David Hyde Pierce playing their characters from “Frasier!”
Presumably Kelsey Grammer knew enough to say “no” to that. Truly, truly bad stuff.
Regarding the Aniversary bid with the Fraser cast it was for the 35th Aniversary special(or was it 30th?)
The sketch was suposed to include all the Fraser cast. Kelsey Grammer had agreed to do it but at the last minute he went into rehab and Kate Mulgrew was asked if she wanted to step in.
Kelsey Grammer got the better end of that deal.
I did love Balok’s return, and would have liked to see a little bit more done with it. Not too much, mind you, but if nothing else, Clint Howard could use the screen time.
In retrospect, Clint really should have had a role in SoaP.
Tim Lynch,
I would recommend (in this order):
Billy Connolly Live – The Greatest Hits
or
Billy Connolly – Erect for 30 Years.
They were around $10.00 each.
Both American formatted DVDs just went out of production so they may be a bit hard to find new. The only catch is that you would have to go through about 20 minutes (out of 2 hours 21 and 1 hour 43 respectively) on each of his evolution from a folk singer/comedian to a stand up. But, if you like funny folk songs mixed with jokes you’ll be fine. Oh, it also helps if you have a good ear for understanding accents. He’s from Glascow and his accent gets really thick when he’s on a roll.
They just put out his Live in New York (Too Old to Die Young Tour 2005). It’s ok but certainly not his best.
Also see http://www.billyconnolly.com
Always glad to help create another Connolly maniac.
Cory!! Strode,
Yeah, those guys did reallllly blue humor too when they weren’t checked by TV standards. I’ve heard more then a bit of it and laughed my tail off. But, thing is, a lot of it was humor that would still be funny clean had some sort of thought to it. The stuff from the guys on the Shatner roast was all blue and no humor with little or no thougt.
Not my cuppa. But if others liked it… Fine.
>I don’t want to weigh in on the debate wether it was good or not, but I’d like to remind people that the old Dean Martin roasts were done for network TV, and everyone there knew it. According to what I’ve read while researching a book on comedy in the 40’s and 50’s, the roasts back then at the Friar’s Club when it was a private club for comedians only would make the Shatner Roast look like Sunday School.
… and let’s not forget the huge pr mess that hit Ted Danson when he did a roast in black face while dating Whoopie Goldburg. This stuff is definitely low brow humor for the most part, but most roasts tend to fall that way.
Tim, I second the rec on Connolly–I’m a little surprised that, outside of the growing BOONDOCK SAINTS cult, relatively few Americans have heard of him. (Admittedly, some of the stuff I’ve seen could have benefitted from subtitles, though it’s nowhere near as bad as TRAINSPOTTING, which had one character who uttered not a single word I could make out, other than the curses).
[b][i]”By the way, if you never saw the show, consider yourself lucky. It was bargain-basement all the way. They even did this awful sketch with Kate Mulgrew as Captain Janeway, commanding the bridge of Voyager with a crew consisting of Jane Leeves, John Mahoney, and David Hyde Pierce playing their characters from “Frasier!”
Presumably Kelsey Grammer knew enough to say “no” to that. Truly, truly bad stuff.”[/b][/i]
While I don’t know the kind of humor that went into that piece, The set up is kind of a funny joke in and of itself had Kelsey Grammer actualy done the piece… He did play a starship captain (at least once in TNG) after all. So having that captain with a crew from the frasier show is funny in and of itself. Though(not having seen it for myself) judging from the comments here it sounds like the Joke would have been ruined as soon as they oppened their mouths.
“Peter, did anyone get that on video? If so, now that Stan is a big star on SciFi, perhaps you could sell them the footage.”
Yeah, I have it. But I don’t think it’d be appropriate to sell it.
PAD
As for the roast, I saw a bit of Pamela Anderson’s roast from the previous one, and it was all dìçk dìçk dìçk, sex tape sex tape sex tape, Tommy Lee’s wang, etc. etc. Its simply a matter of the main audience demographic for Comedy Central. As bad as Anderson got it, her friend Courtney “30 miles of Bad Road” Love was up there and she got it even worse (though I thought the “she looks worse that Kurt Cobain” quip was alright). A high class friars club style with bottles of champagne and so forth wouldn’t fly. This is William Shatner – I’m going to go out on a limb and assume he’s not exactly a huge draw for the station’s younger audience, so when they piece the show together, you go for easy gags that’ll play to the cheap seats. So to speak.
Oh, and for that Stan Lee roast footage, how about instead of selling or something like that just Youtube-ing it for all? Best video site on the web. People would get a kick out of it seeing it for sure.
>
Kelsey Grammer coulnd’t do the show because he was servicing a jail sentance, (or was it court enforced mandatory rehab, I forget) at the time. If he could have been there I’m sure he would have been, the origninal idea was for him to be there. (Around that time there were a few episodes of Fraiser without Fraiser in them for that exact same reason).
I doubt that the episode will end up on UK TV but my views as a gay guy are these:
First, you get crap thrown at you all the time. Least George keeps his dignity.
Second, if he was offended by it I’m sure he would have walked out.
Third, it does smack a bit of “cheap laughs” the whole set up and show. Never seen it but … you get that feeling.
Then again, hard cash speaks to a lot of people. How much did they get for performing?
Was that Frasier thing the same one that had Jason Alexander in a TOS uniform? Personally, and of course this is just me, being a mild Trek fan and a big Frasier and Cheers fan (okay, I need therapy for this Trek addiction, but at least I acknowledge it, okay?) I thought it was pretty funny. As I recall, though, that was the only bit that I really laughed at.
Jason Alexander wasn’t part of the Frasier/Voyager sketch. He may have appeared at some other point during the show. I don’t remember. I’ve blocked it out of my memory.
I do remember the 30th (I’m pretty sure) Anniversary Special, particularly a rather cringeworthy comment from Danson about his biggest tie to Trek being that his girlfriend’s ex-husband killed Captain Kirk.
Huh, I didn’t know Mary Steenburgen was married to Malcolm McDowell. But why is that comment cringeworthy?
Huh, I didn’t know Mary Steenburgen was married to Malcolm McDowell. But why is that comment cringeworthy?
Well, on the one hand, his delivery was rather lacking. It also drew attention to Danson not really having a real reason to be there. But mostly, it just seemed crass to point out, “The lady’s with me now,” in such a public forum.
-Rex Hondo-
Sorry, guys, but the Dean Martin Roasts sucked. There was no real comedy there. There were lots of cutaways to the attendees “supposedly” laughing at the comic jokes.
The best roast I ever saw on TV was done on HBO, a “tribute” to Budd Friedman, the guy who runs the Improv stand-up comedy club. And although it included big-name comedians, the clear winner was the relatively lower-level and under-appreciated Martin Mull. He “honored” the others with perfectly crafted lines.
“This is where Robin Williams turned a debilitating mental handicap into a six-figure paycheck,” Mull said. And about the most perfectionist comic present: “This is where Robert Klein practiced and Practiced and PRACTICED that spontaneity…”
The killer was, “This is where Paul Rodriguez discovered the wellspring of material to be found in making fun of one’s own people, making him the envy of every non-Hispanic comic. God knows, I’d like to tell jokes like, ‘When does a Mexican know when he’s hungry? His ášš stops burning,’ but that’s your territory, pal, I won’t step in it.”
And he did it without any sexual references, and completely attaching his jokes to the character and professional behavior of these comedians. A pity the only work Mull gets these days is Ziploc bag commercials and Vlad Plasmius voice acting gigs on “Danny Phantom.”
Thomas E. Reed: “Sorry, guys, but the Dean Martin Roasts sucked. There was no real comedy there. There were lots of cutaways to the attendees “supposedly” laughing at the comic jokes.”
I think you’re forgetting that humor is subjective. I’ve seen a couple of Dean Martin roasts and thought they were very funny. While I appreciate your attempt to let us down gently with your apology, there really was no need for it. Your opinion is just that: your opinion.
Thomas, I’d like to clarify one thing just in case it isn’t clear: when I said “there really was no need for it,” I was referring to your apology only. You’re as entitled to express your opinions about art as much as anyone else.
“And although it included big-name comedians, the clear winner was the relatively lower-level and under-appreciated Martin Mull. He “honored” the others with perfectly crafted lines.”
That doesn’t surprise me. It seems in any get-together of comedians where he’s present, Mull comes out on top. There were a ton of comics in “The Aristocrats” and yet his version was definitely the best (although Sara Silverman’s was up there, and the magician was more amazingly impressive than funny.)
PAD
I remember the Improv tribute, but I think Mull did make at least one sexual reference: about a waitress who had blown every comedian who worked there.
Still, it was 1,000 times funnier than anything I saw at the Shatner roast, so I’ll just echo what others have said: There’s nothing wrong with a comedian telling a blue joke, so long as the joke is funny. But “going blue” isn’t and should not be seen as a substitute for actually being funny.
I watched some of the Pamela Anderson roast from last year and probably shouldn’t have even tried the Shatner roast because it was clearly by the same people.
About the only funny thing in the Pam Anderson roast was watching Courtney Love repeatedly insist that she’d been sober for six months when it was obvious she was completely wasted.
While I thought it was funny in bits, maybe I was in a dirty frame of mind at the time. I also found it too dirty at times.
I didn’t see the roast, so I can’t speak about that but I to echo what Jason M. Bryant said about the comedians probably not comparing notes. When my Dad was in high school, he did a rendition of Andy Griffith’s classic “What It Was Was Football” routine at some sort of assembly before the entire school. The thing is, he wasn’t the only one who decided to go with that bit, but as it was the only one he’d rehearsed, when it was his turn to go up, he was stuck repeating the same bit everyone had heard _many_ times before.
Now granted “What It Was Was Football” is in no way comparable to jokes about a person’s sexual orientation, but I’d have to agree the same principal probably applied. The comedians at the roast went with what they had. Although, being (presumably) professionals, I’d hope that at least _some_ of them attempted to rework their material.
Bill Myers, the program you’re describing celebrated Star Trek’s 30th anniversary. At the end, all the various Trek stars in attendance come up on stage and are presented with plaques by Mae Jemison and Buzz Aldrin. I gotta admit I liked that part.
Don’t remember the Ben Stiller goof, but one thing I do remember from the 30th anniversary celebration was Joan Collins at the podium talking about how her character, Edith Keeler, was enthralled by Hitler.
Um, no Joan. Your character never so much as _mentions_ Hitler’s name. Not in the episode, or in Harlan Ellison’s original script. Where she got that idea I have no clue, but it would have been nice if someone had corrected her. I would have. I’d probably have been nice about it, but I’d have done it.
You think the _Voyager_ skit with the _Frasier_ actors was bad, O.K. I haven’t seen it since the special aired, so I can’t give a fresh opinion; but I feel pretty confident that a skit with Jason Alexander and two other people whose names I now forget which aired in a special following DeForest Kelley’s 1999 death went far beyond bad into extremely bad taste. I don’t remember all that happened, but it ends with McCoy dying. It was, as they say, craptastic.
Rick
Let me preface this by saying that I’m the furthest thing from being culturally PC, right down to my shoulder stockless, NOT-meant-for-hunting, Moe-on-“The Simpsons” Mossberg “house” shotgun that’s probably illegal in most “British Commonwealth” countries (and probably San Francisco in a few years!). I don’t really know
how much of an áššhølë Andy Ðìçk really is, but it seemed to me that the William Shatner Roast was almost a sideshow for a night of the most juvenile kind of shameless gay-bashing against him and George Takei reminiscent of the just-post AIDS days of the Reagan Administration. This is totally unacceptable, especially for the Hollywood scene. If an eastern Yankee-boy like yours truly who’s willing to use lethal force to defend his home (whether it’s legal or not) can nonetheless understand that at least SOME of what Dr. Alfred Kinsey said about homosexuality is true, I subsequently think it is totally strange that a state which now borders close to the mentality that would like to ban the sale of my Mossberg (and all tobacco too) would take a diametrically opposite attitude on the subject. I USED to think that “PC is just the flip-side of reactionism”, but apparently in California they are one-and-the-same!
While I didn’t find the roast as bad as PAD did, I did want to KILL the editor. All of the comedians I’d never heard of (and I know I’m not alone on that considering the running joke about them being unknowns)had their segments run in their entirety. Several people I would have liked to have heard more from had their segments scaled down. (Nichelle Nichols, Fred Willard, Kevin Pollack, Andy Ðìçk.) It’s as if it was more about promoting Comedy Central’s stable of regulars or something. All of Farrah Fawcett’s segment was shown and that was just painfully embarassing to watch.
Kudos, however, on getting Clint Howard to reprise his role as Balok.
I thought the Pamela Anderson roast was funny. The first four presenters were spot-on with their jokes, IMO, and Courtney Love was just plain annoying, given her constant attempts to interrupt the presenter and call attention to herself. If she’s been sober for a year, then perhaps she just gave up her last excuse for acting like a moron.
Bill Myers, no apology necessary, dude. I should have said “not funny TO ME.” But I have seen an awful lot of bad roasts.
A lot of these shows booked B or C list talents, many of whom were not comedians, comics or comic actors. And while, at a private roast, some of the participants might have written their own stuff, a lot of the Martin roasts were scripted by the show’s regular writers.
There were some people who apparently made their living off TV roasts in the 60’s. They never seemed to do anything else in show business. Red Buttons always did the same awful routine. “Gee, Honored Guest got a dinner. But I never got a dinner…Attilla the Hun never got a dinner…Marie Antoinette never got a dinner…”
And then there was George Jessel. I don’t know what he was like in his prime, or in private Friar’s Club roasts, but on TV he was freakin’ weird. He was like the crazy old grandpa people kept locked up in the closet, brought into the presence of normal people for Thanksgiving dinner. At the time I saw him, he wore some kind of phony military uniform with lots of ribbons, still did a dumb bit where he talked to his “Mama” on the phone, and still thought his Jolson impression was killer.
PAD wrote”one of the comedians made a joke that George came out of the closet 30 years after the end of Star Trek (and his career ^_^). I’ve wondered why he didn’t make that choice earlier. “
One possible reason I thught that George may have waited so long to come out was that as a Japanese-American he had already been victimized once in his lifetime for being a minority when his family was placed in an internment camp during World War II. I could see why experiencing something like that might make you a bit cautious about admitting to the world that you are secretly another kind of minority.
One possible reason I thught …
I hate when I miss my own typo.
I enjoyed this a lot. I seem to be in the minority. Maybe it is because I am a huge Howard Stern fan. Artie Lange is one hëll of a funny guy. Crude, yes, but thats his style. His relationship with George Takei (they are the modern odd couple) makes their jokes even funnier. Anyone who has listened to George on the show knows how much he hates Shatner, for treating him like garbage. It was always Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelly…and then the rest, but Spock and Bones would at least respect them. Shatner never did.
Lisa Lampenelli (not Laura) is also one funny gal. Again, a semi regular on Stern, I know a lot of her back story. She make sfun of her self in that she is fat and that she only dates black guys. If you know her backstory, it makes a lot of the little comments even funner.
I like having the C listers there. They can go places that A listers often don’t or won’t. Stop hate’n on them!