The “Blame Game”

Posted By: Peter DavidPosted On:

The Bush administration has embraced a term that truly sets my teeth on edge: The Blame Game.

Yet again, the administration trivializes that which it wants to draw attention from or diminish, finding new and innovative ways to dodge questions and avoid responsibility.

I have no clear idea yet, for certain, if lapses in administrative judgment can be blamed for everything from siphoning money away from shoring up the levies in order to support the war and Bush’s tax cuts, to slow response to the emergency. But these are questions that must be asked. Clearly, the Bush administration embraces this notion with the same enthusiasm and thirst for truth that it did the 9/11 panel. Instead it endeavors to sprint along the obvious “high road”: The Bush administration will not play “the blame game” when people need to be helped.

You know what? The government is large enough to multitask. There’s no reason it can’t help people AND investigate. Not play “the blame game.” It’s not a game, Mr. Bush. Perhaps much of your life has been thus far. Play with toys such as corporations, governments and armies, run them into the ground, and then wait for others to clean up your mess. But it’s not. A game. It never has been, and that’s something that this administration has yet to comprehend.

One thing guaranteed, though: They’ll try to find a way to blame it on Clinton. But Clinton shouldn’t take it personally. It’s all part of the game.

UPDATED 10:45 AM. Maggie Thompson sent me the following link: http://www.thisisnotover.com/archives/2005/09/heres_what_gets.html This is one of those “I wish I’d said that” entries.

PAD

448 comments on “The “Blame Game””

  1. “No, I’m saying that people out there do believe it. I’m also saying that anybody who doesn’t (as you just stated you don’t) should argue the point with them rather then excuse their use of the race issue.”

    Gosh. I’m sorry I’m not living up to your expectations. I don’t argue emotive points. You simply won’t win anything (see O’Reilly, Bill; Coulter, Ann; Hannity, Sean; Huffington; Arianna; Sharpton, Al).

    “But half of your own argument says that he doesn’t have a valid point. You state that you know that there was no race issues involved with Katrina. He says there is. If there wasn’t then he doesn’t have a valid point. All he has is idiocy.”

    When I get the opportunity to spend my life as a black person experiencing things like not getting a job over someone less qualified, or being turned down for a promotion over someone less qualified, or being turned down for a home loan even though I should qualify, or being pulled over for no discernable reason other than my skin color, then I’ll know what he’s talking about. Until then, I’m going to assume that he’s experienced it. I have not.

  2. What you have to realize is that in politics, perception = reality. Whether people’s belief in Bush’s attitude towards minorities is justified or not, the belief itself has real implications and power in the political arena.

    In this case, Bush really didn’t do himself any favors. The day the hurricane him, he went to Colorado and talked about medicare. When he mentioned Chertoff, he said they talked about immigration. The day the levee broke, he was in California, still talking about medicare. When he finally did cut his vacation short, he did a flyover of New Orleans rather than make a personal visit. When he finally did visit, he made a joke about getting hammered at Mardi Gras and talked about how great Trent Lott’s new porch was going to be. Then there was the infamous, “Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job” quote, just as Brown was being universally pilloried in the media for his own cluelessness of the situation in New Orleans.

    At every step during the first week, Bush created a perception that he wasn’t taking the disaster seriously at all. When you have a city that is arond 70% black, it isn’t much of a leap for people there to think that Bush’s callousness towards their plight is based on racism. Especially given the history of the region.

    In 1927, during a previous flood in Louisiana, the city deliberately flooded black neighborhoods to divert water away from the other parts of the city. Rescue boats passed stranded black people by to rescue white people.

    Now, you can say, “that was then, we do things differently now,” but you’ll be hard pressed to find many people left stranded by Katrina who would believe that.

    In that context, rational or not, it is easy to see how the residents of New Orleans, when they see Bush making jokes and praising a man no one else thought was doing a good job, that they might feel that, had they been white and middle class, rescue and relief supplies might have arrived faster. “Bush doesn’t care about black people” may not be an accurate reflection of his views, but his own actions helped to create this perception.

  3. Well, ask the blacks that do see it that way. You and Jerry both seem to be saying that there is NO possible way that anyone should be able to interpret the actions of the government post-Katrina as being racially guided.

    “no possible way that people should be able”…? Huh? People can feel anyway they want. I’m not advocating re-education camps. But if they want me to take them seriously they had better have arguments to back them up.

    Feeling are fine. They have their place. They make life worth living. They are, however, no substitute for thought and reason. In an emergency like this, feeling are about as valuable as prayers, without the outside chance that they may actually turn out to be useful.

    It really doesn’t matter if it’s logical, it’s how they are going to interpret it.

    It matters to me. I mean, you are correct. I don’t deny that. But as far as it being something I am willing to expend any effort on…I don’t know how to deal with irrationality in a world that operates by rational rules of nature.

    Here’s one fun experiment you can try at home while watching the news: if a person is white, see if their color or ethnicity is mentioned. If a person is non-white, see if that is mentioned. Count the number of times skin color or ethnicity is mentioned for both.

    Actually, it’s gotten to the point where the New York Times and other newspapers sometimes don’t even give the ethnicity of criminals– “Police were on the lookout for two men in their 20s, one wearing a red jacket.” Gee, thanks.

    When I get the opportunity to spend my life as a black person experiencing things like not getting a job over someone less qualified, or being turned down for a promotion over someone less qualified, or being turned down for a home loan even though I should qualify, or being pulled over for no discernible reason other than my skin color, then I’ll know what he’s talking about. Until then, I’m going to assume that he’s experienced it. I have not.

    Umm, no. Sorry, I can’t accept that as a rational concept. Being black does not entitle one to uninformed opinions that should not be challenged as such.

    I mean, I haven’t lived life as a tertiary stage syphillic moron but that doesn’t stop me from judging Fred Phelps.

    What you have to realize is that in politics, perception = reality.

    While there is truth in this, that is one phrase I’d love to see eliminated. Reality is reality. As Phillip K Ðìçk said, it’s still here even when you stop believing in it.

  4. I don’t like the truism myself, Bill, but the truth is, people’s perceptions do influence the political reality.

    For example, say I wanted to invade a third world country because, well, I thought my dad should’ve done it 10 years ago. I know I can’t convince the American people to support an invasion for that reason, but if I cook a bunch of intelligence reports and repeat the country’s name in the same sentence as “9/11” over and over again, suddenly, the perception among the majority of people is, this country is the greatest single threat to our survival and must be destroyed immediately.

    Thus, I’ve created a new reality.

  5. “but if I cook a bunch of intelligence reports and repeat the country’s name in the same sentence as “9/11″ over and over again, suddenly, the perception among the majority of people is, this country is the greatest single threat to our survival and must be destroyed immediately. Thus, I’ve created a new reality.”

    I don’t think Bush created a new reality. I think bin Laden and his people created a new reality. Bush just exploited it.

    PAD

  6. Here’s the thing about basing your elections on misdirection, manipulation, and subtle lies: sooner or later, the voters are going to catch on. If Bush had avoided accepting any responsibility for the lethargic Federal response to Katrina, I think that would have broken the GOP hold on the government.

    Heh, why do you think he mea culpaed? šŸ™‚

    I don’t doubt there exists some sincerity in his admission of culpability, but I suspect that avoiding a wholesale populist shaking off of the GOP was a strong factor, if not the primary one.

  7. “When I get the opportunity to spend my life as a black person experiencing things like not getting a job over someone less qualified, or being turned down for a promotion over someone less qualified, or being turned down for a home loan even though I should qualify, or being pulled over for no discernable reason other than my skin color, then I’ll know what he’s talking about. Until then, I’m going to assume that he’s experienced it. I have not.”

    The greatest PC straw dog of them all. “You’re not black. You can’t say anything until you’ve lived black.”

    Yeah. Let me tell you two things about that.

    1) I grew up in an area where the majority of the people on my block, on my bus, in my school and at my first two work places were black. I’ve dealt with the crap that my friends were handed more then a few times. But I also saw a lot of people using that tired old line as a crutch for not trying and not doing. I saw guys walking around talking about how they didn’t get a job at this place or that because they were black. Thing is, I knew some of the people who ended up with those jobs and they were, surprise, black as well.

    I’ll even do you onw better on the “you have to have felt it to talk about” front. From that time in my life, I was judged, attacked, put down and mistreated based only on the color of my skin. By blacks. I think I can speak on the feeling quite well. I know what racism feels like. I know the scars that violent racism can leave (and I’m talking real ones here.)

    2) That is the biggest load of BS that the PC crowd throw out when their argument starts to fail them. Under that rule, no one can speak on anything that they have never done or experienced.

    Knuck, stop talking about the President and what he did wrong. Have you ever been President of the U.S. of A.? Have you ever been the leader of any country? Well, what the hëll do you know about it then? Have you ever run an operation of the size and scope of FEMA? Have you ever headed up an effort like the on going on down in NO? Then stop talking about those people in such a negative way. It’s obvious that you don’t have the knowledge or experience to say diddly squat about anything that those people are having to deal with.

    You should also avoid posting about anything more then what you think about PAD’s work or when he asks what people think about a movie, TV show or book. Anything else like politics, police work, military and such you don’t have the experience to speak on with any kind of true authority.

    Actually, you probably shouldn’t post on PAD’s subjects either. Are you a professional writer, actor, director, artist or producer? No? Well, then you probably don’t understand the creative process, not having lived your life dealing with it, to properly critique anything you see beyond a simple, “I liked that.”

    West felt bad. Fine. His right to do so. But once he states his feelings in a public forum and has zero facts to put behind the accusations he makes based on those feelings then he shows the world that he is an idiot. And he is.

  8. “West felt bad. Fine. His right to do so. But once he states his feelings in a public forum and has zero facts to put behind the accusations he makes based on those feelings then he shows the world that he is an idiot. And he is.”

    but i think it’s important to address West’s views because they are so widely held and destructive.

    if you just dismiss them as idiotic, you can get unfairly lumped in with all the people who deny that racism is still a problem at all. and then you miss the people who need to be told that this guy is wrong.

    i think it’s important to construct a counter argument to his idiocy that addresses the audience he appeals to. just saying, “you’re an idiot for thinking that” doesn’t win hearts and minds.

    if it did, there would be no Bush supporters anywhere šŸ˜‰

    i’m not saying it’s your job to construct that argument. i’m just saying that even stupid ideas have to be dealt with when they’re influential. just writing that off as idiotic is the strategic equivalent of the Kerry campaign figuring no one would take the Swift Boaters seriously.

  10. “if you just dismiss them as idiotic, you can get unfairly lumped in with all the people who deny that racism is still a problem at all. and then you miss the people who need to be told that this guy is wrong.”

    Yeah, I know.

    In his little mini debate, I have pointed out that I know that real racism is out there (if only in a minority of the population.) I pointed out that I’ve seen it directed at friends I grew up with in the same posting you pasted from. I’ve also come across a wee bit more bûŧŧhëádëd about it then when I’m dealing with it in real life.

    On a local or personal level I deal with this in a slightly more even handed way. With this I just get a bit pissy because you have something as massive as Katrina being turned into a race card issue by some out there and then you end up with excusers ready, willing and able to do what they can to tell them that it’s perfectly fine for them to believe that this entire thing is one big black hating crusade by the government and media.

    Maybe I’m just overly sensitive to the issue. But I think I have a right to be. Do you know what it’s like to have a small child cower away from you and then tell you, when you ask them what they’re afraid of, that they think you want to hurt them because momma or daddy or big brother has told them since they could first remember that police officers want to hurt, harass or kill them just because they’re black? I don’t know one police officer who sets out at the start of shift wanting to kill a black man before the nights end. But I see more and more young blacks being told that by “leaders” and ignorant pinheads like West. There are times that I go well beyond the call of duty to help someone else and it gets met with suspicious looks or open anger because of the uniform I’m wearing.

    Not all the time mind you. And I do keep in mind that I’m dealing with people who often see police only at the worst of times (that sin thing I mentioned in an above posting.) But I still get pìššëd with the race card and the use of it more then anything else in politics because I see it and its results in real life 40 to 72 hours a week. I see how it’s played for power games in the seat of Virginia’s government. I see it on the job and I see it when I’m home and just biking through the neighborhoods.

    I get frustrated as hëll when explaining to someone that they aren’t going to get anywhere if they don’t even try to begin with. If you don’t try to get what you want and claim that it’s not worth the try because the system is designed to keep you down then you prove yourself half right. The system is designed that way. But it’s you who designed the system that’s trapping you. But you try explaining that to some people and you get the mindless crap that Knuckles finally resorted to. I don’t understand anything because a) I’m white and b) being white made everything easy for me. Yeah, right.

    It’s frustrating when you live in the state that, at a time when it was heavily majority white, elected Doug Wilder as the first black Governor in the country and you would still see local level black leaders talking about how the white man wanted to keep the black man poor, dumb and without any power. It was more frustrating to see so many believe it when they could see the leader of both his party and his state, a black man elected by all colors of people in VA, on the TV every night.

    It’s frustrating to me to see, with so many people bending over backwards to prove that they’re not racist and walking on eggshells with race issues, so many black leaders and public figures making the statements that the Wests, Jacksons and Sharptons make and so many others believing it. And making charges without having to back it up with so much as one bit of evidence.

    It’s even more frustrating to see people, like Knuckles, who say that they know it’s bogus but fight with every breath to excuse or allow the bogus idea to be spread unchallenged by the Wests of the world. Refusing to fight against a lie is as good as lying yourself. In this case the lie is so evil and vile that it destroys lives. I kinda think that’s a lie that’s worth fighting against.

    And why am I so frustrated on such a personal level? The far left guys usually try to claim that I’m just tired of having the responsibility or the guilt or the whatever of my race’s crimes pointed out to me. They’re idiots. I grew up with some good people. I’ve watched some of them become more successful in life then I may ever be. I’ve watched many of them not make it as well. But the ones that didn’t make it weren’t held down by anyone but themselves. They had lots of people giving them an excuse to cling to and they used it. But the excuse became an anchor and dragged them deeper and deeper down. And I’ve watched one die. I saw a life leave this Earth for no other reason then he could have been more then he was if he had tried. But he didn’t and he played real stupid games instead and it cost him his life. It also cost a huge amount of joy to leave the life of a woman, his mother. She was one of the kindest souls I ever knew. She didn’t deserve to go through that.

    That’s what gets me so frustrated. That’s what gets me so angry on this issue with idiots and power seekers alike. I knew people who should have been every bit as successful as I am or more so and they flushed it all by themselves. No one held them down but themselves in the end. And I just keep seeing more and more people milking this crap for power and money and more and more people buying it while, it seems sometimes, more and more people keep their mouths shut and refuse to speak out against it because it’s just too unPC to say anything.

  12. Amen, Jerry.

    I totally missed or forgot that you were a cop. People on this board have said very nice things about teachers and they are appreciated. I’m sure that just as many would thank you for what you do. Personally, I think that police and fireman are WAY more deserving of our gratitude–not to denigrate my own profession but it’s a rare day that I ever put my life or health on the line. Sanity, sure.

    As to your points, you said it better than I ever could. The one hope I have is that the next generation, even when they play the race card, seems to know it’s just a game. I’ve had kids try the old “It’s because I’m Black. right?” routine on me and 9 times out of 10 when you call them on it they crack up and admit that they are full of wild strawberry muffins (or something more pungent).

  13. Bill,

    I would have to disagree with you. I first set out to be a teacher. Going into the family trade came after I realized that teaching was too stressful for me.

    Plus, some of my basik gremmar, spulling and wuhtnot bloz.

    :()

  14. The greatest PC straw dog of them all. “You’re not black. You can’t say anything until you’ve lived black.”

    Itā€™s not a straw dog at all. And from your comments below, you prove that.

    Yeah. Let me tell you two things about that.

    1) I grew up in an area where the majority of the people on my block, on my bus, in my school and at my first two work places were black. I’ve dealt with the crap that my friends were handed more then a few times. But I also saw a lot of people using that tired old line as a crutch for not trying and not doing. I saw guys walking around talking about how they didn’t get a job at this place or that because they were black. Thing is, I knew some of the people who ended up with those jobs and they were, surprise, black as well.

    I’ll even do you one better on the “you have to have felt it to talk about” front. From that time in my life, I was judged, attacked, put down and mistreated based only on the color of my skin. By blacks. I think I can speak on the feeling quite well. I know what racism feels like. I know the scars that violent racism can leave (and I’m talking real ones here.)

    You seem to think I equate victimhood with genuine racism. I donā€™t. Victimhood = Race Card. Itā€™s an excuse. Apparently you have a similar background to West. I donā€™t. You donā€™t like what he said and are able to back up why you think itā€™s bûllšhìŧ. Great. I canā€™t.

    2) That is the biggest load of BS that the PC crowd throw out when their argument starts to fail them. Under that rule, no one can speak on anything that they have never done or experienced.

    Come on, Jerry, donā€™t be a jáçkášš. Thatā€™s not the point at all and you know it.

    Knuck, stop talking about the President and what he did wrong. Have you ever been President of the U.S. of A.? Have you ever been the leader of any country? Well, what the hëll do you know about it then? Have you ever run an operation of the size and scope of FEMA? Have you ever headed up an effort like the on going on down in NO? Then stop talking about those people in such a negative way. It’s obvious that you don’t have the knowledge or experience to say diddly squat about anything that those people are having to deal with.

    Now there is a frequent conservative criticism. One I (and many other liberals) have received quite a bit. It has the same level of cognitive dissonance about it that ā€œIf you donā€™t support the war, you donā€™t support the troopsā€ does (For the record I have one brother, one brother in law, one uncle and one cousin who served in the first Gulf War; I also have numerous friends as well as the same cousin who are either currently serving in Iraq or have rotated out. I do not support the war, but oddly enough, my friends and family feel quite assured that I do support the troops.). Thereā€™s a difference between common sense (you know, something youā€™d use in a disaster ā€“ like a hurricane, preparing for war, cutting taxes). I criticize things that I would handle differently if put in the same situation. You know what? Iā€™ve never been in Westā€™s situation. Iā€™ve never been in yours. You think heā€™s an idiot because (apparently) you come from a similar background. Great. As mentioned before, you have grounds to criticize him. I donā€™t. So I wonā€™t criticize him because he has led a life that I canā€™t relate to whatsoever. Just like Iā€™m not criticizing you for being an áššhølë to me (apparently due to your life experiences). Youā€™ve led a life that I simply havenā€™t. This clearly pìššëš you off, and apparently my lack of outrage to Westā€™s remarks pìššëš you off even more.

    You should also avoid posting about anything more then what you think about PAD’s work or when he asks what people think about a movie, TV show or book. Anything else like politics, police work, military and such you don’t have the experience to speak on with any kind of true authority.

    Actually, I do, but that is neither here nor there.

    Actually, you probably shouldn’t post on PAD’s subjects either. Are you a professional writer, actor, director, artist or producer? No? Well, then you probably don’t understand the creative process, not having lived your life dealing with it, to properly critique anything you see beyond a simple, “I liked that.”

    I was at one point, but got over it. I write database code now.

    West felt bad. Fine. His right to do so. But once he states his feelings in a public forum and has zero facts to put behind the accusations he makes based on those feelings then he shows the world that he is an idiot. And he is.

    The difference in our interpretation of his comments is this: Apparently you see him presenting this as fact. I donā€™t. I see him presenting it as opinion.

    My background: white, surburban youth. Raised in Seattle. Father remarried when I was 5, theyā€™ve stayed married ever since. Went to public schools, started in community college and then graduated eventually from university in Montana. What common ground do I have with West (or you) to criticize either what he said or your reaction to what he said? Nothing whatsoever. I can, however, criticize your reaction to my apparent lack of outrage. And I have. You want to call my reaction ā€œmindlessā€, fine. You apparently operate on a higher moral and intellectual plane than I do. At the end of the day, however, I still think you are (quite unnecessarily, mind you) being a dìçk. And you really donā€™t need to be.

  15. Bill: The left doesn’t excuse Sharpton, they ignore him. Like it or hate it, Democrats aren’t in the business of shutting people up just because they’ve got a big fûçkìņg mouth. Yes, I think the Al Sharpton of 20 years ago was incredibly divisive. I also think he’s made great strides over the past decade or so to try and (at the very least) moderate his vitriol. I also think trying to group Al Sharpton, Kanye West and Louis Farrakhan into the same group is like trying comparing Sinbad, Howdy Doody and Ronald Reagan. Three great tastes that don’t taste great together.

  16. Jerry: Clearly I havenā€™t been able to take the time to try and clarify my point at all, either that or Iā€™ve pìššëd you off enough that you simply havenā€™t read it (I am more inclined to believe that I simply havenā€™t made it clear). All Iā€™m saying is this: I firmly believe that there are people in Louisiana who, as a result of their life experiences, legitimately feel that they werenā€™t helped because they were black. They arenā€™t being victims, they arenā€™t using race as a catch-all, this is something that they legitimately feel and could back up with anecdotes from their lives, just as you have done.

    As I have stated before: I do not believe that any relief efforts were prioritized, executed, whatever based on race. And I can say it all I want to whomever I want: ā€œNo, the lack of aid from the government wasnā€™t because you were black, it was because the response was executed by a bunch of fûçkìņg morons.ā€ Who is going to listen to that? Well, you are, I am, Bill, PAD, indestructibleman, etc. But Iā€™m thinking that the urban poor who are currently living in the Astrodome (or Reliant Arena or whatever) probably donā€™t have an internet connection, so maybe they arenā€™t paying real close attention. They arenā€™t in a position to be logical, they are in a position to be emotional. I also feel that based on their social background, their response makes perfect sense. Is that contradictory? Perhaps so. Is it mindless? No. Not at all.

    What I do hope is that the response of the people of America does more to show these people who might be crying race now that they are mistaken. The actions of America will speak louder than anyoneā€™s words. Iā€™ve donated to the Red Cross, and my wife has volunteered with the county government to go down to New Orleans to be part of the recovery efforts. Iā€™ve got friends who are driving down to Houston to pick up a family to bring home with them for a while. I appreciate what West said, and will defend it simply because I think itā€™s his right AND I think itā€™s something he legitimately feels. But I also think that what I, you, and my friends and family are doing speaks far louder than anything any freaking rapper says on TV.

    If I may iterate: I am white as white can be. I grew up in a very white part of a fairly white city. I have a half-sister and brother in law who grew up in Cleveland. She is half-black, he is not. They both could speak to your experience far more than I could. Were my parents trying to shield me from harsh urban realities? No. Housing was cheaper. But thatā€™s my background. Have I ever been discriminated against? Not really. I had long hair for a while in high school, and on more than one occasion had a VWF guy come up to me with those flags that they sell at fairs and festivals, tap me on the shoulder and say, ā€œExcuse me, miss?ā€ I was also once on the receiving end of a skeptical look at a bed and breakfast in Scotland. Other than that? Nothing.

    Do we have race issues in Seattle? Sure. The SPD, like almost any other police department is continually accused of racial profiling, typically by a šhìŧ-spouting firebrand that cries ā€œRACISM!ā€ at every possible moment. When you consider that the head of the union, and many other highly ranked officers in the force are black and Asian, itā€™s a claim that is treated with derision as a general rule. Does anyone pay any attention to him? I suppose a few do, but not many. Everyone has their constituents. Have I ever written a letter to the editor of the local paper calling this guy out on his bûllšhìŧ? Absolutely, but I can sort of speak to the realities of growing up in Seattle (even the poorer neighborhoods, as I had many friends from those areas and went over to their houses a lot). I havenā€™t the faintest fûçkìņg clue what itā€™s like to grow up dirt poor in the south (regardless of my skin color). You go right ahead and criticize West, you apparently have the background.

    But you try explaining that to some people and you get the mindless crap that Knuckles finally resorted to. I don’t understand anything because a) I’m white and b) being white made everything easy for me. Yeah, right.

    I didnā€™t say I donā€™t understand anything: I said I wouldnā€™t judge him. I understand plenty, thanks. If you see that as a cop-out, well, too bad. And I never said that being white made everything easy for me. Thatā€™s your interpretation.

  17. Knuckles, I’m sorry, because you make some valid points even if I don’t agree with them, but your statement that “The left doesn’t excuse Sharpton, they ignore him” truly shows a healthy dose of ignorance. He was a valid contender for the Democratic nomination. He participated in the debates. He spoke at the convention. Don’t think for a minute that he doesn’t entertain a healthy modicum of reverence and respect from the “general” left.

    And please don’t turn what I just said around and point out people that the right don’t condemn enough. That’s not what I’m talking about…simply your singular statement that I feel needs to be refuted.

    As for the perception vs. reality argument, I point you to the rather surprising ABC post-presidential interviews:

    http://newsbusters.org/node/1201

  18. “He was a valid contender for the Democratic nomination. He participated in the debates. He spoke at the convention. Don’t think for a minute that he doesn’t entertain a healthy modicum of reverence and respect from the “general” left.”

    If you honestly think that Sharpton was a valid candidate for the Democratic nomination, you weren’t playing really close attention to the party itself. He had just slightly more of a chance of getting nominated than Carol Mosely Braun and Dennis Kucinich. His campaign was primarily about salvaging his image amongst the party moderates.

    Don’t get me wrong, people love Sharpton. I love Sharpton. I think his speech at the DNC kicked ášš. He’s a hellraiser of the first order, and that’s something the Democratic party needs. But he is very much like the little boy who cried wolf when it comes to issues of race. After Tawana Brawley, no one in the party will ever take him seriously again. And that is what I meant with that statement.

  19. And to further clarify my statement on Sharpton: Yes, he still has his constituents when it comes to issues of race. But they are not legion, nor are they a force within the Democratic party. This is not a statement of ignorance, this is a statement of fact. Al Sharpton’s presidential campaign was about salvaging his political image, not about being a legitimate contender for the nomination. You want to see an African American force in Democratic politics, you look to Barack Obama and Harold Ford. For better or for worse, Al Sharpton is a social activist.

  21. Try this again…

    AZTeach: Aside from the fact that link takes me to a site dedicated to refuting the “liberal media bias” (which I find every bit as ridiculous as Hillary’s “vast right-wing conspiracy), it doesn’t take me to anything about the post-presidential debate interviews. It takes me to something about Katrina victims loving Bush and blaming Nagin. That’s all well and good, but doesn’t have much to do with the good Reverend Al.

    Here’s a link to Media Matters, just so I can do a tit-for-tat:

    Media Matters For America

  24. Well, Knuckles, I honestly think here what we have is a disagreement in terminology, which is OK. I didn’t say Sharpton had a chance to win the election, I said he was a valid candidate, but I guess that just means different things to you and me. Just as you don’t see a disconnect between “Don’t get me wrong, people love Sharpton. I love Sharpton. I think his speech at the DNC kicked ášš” and “The left doesn’t excuse Sharpton, they ignore him.” I see them as polar opposites.

    As far as the video goes, it’s fairly obvious you didn’t watch the video or read the transcript, so there’s no point discussing it other than to say that my post never said it had anything to do with Al Sharpton, and I specifically tagged it is as refering to the perception vs. reality debate, but perhaps I should have made them different posts to accentuate that.

  26. Definitely a difference in terminology. To me, a valid candidate is one with a legitimate shot at winning it. He had no chance. There were really only two or three candidates at most who had any sort of legitimate chance. Al Sharpton was not one of them.

    Text of Al Sharpton’s Speech to the DNC

    I absolutely think this speech kicked ášš. Read it. You may disagree with everything he says in it, but he is a man who knows how to speak in public (although I still cringe when I think of his response to a question from an American Indian regarding tribal sovereignty at the debate in AZ). He’s great at getting people riled up. He got me riled up. And I stand by my statement with a slight modification: the left doesn’t excuse Sharpton, Nor do they condone him. It is really all the party can do to acknowledge his existence. “Ignore” was too strong a word, and I retract it.

    (Total DNC aside: the worst follow up act at that convention was Joe Lieberman to Wes Clark. Clark was a little raw on the circuit when he started, but by the time he hit the convention he was firing on all cylinders and gave a fantastic speech. Then came Lieberman, and everyone I know turned off the TV, and read the transcript the next day.)

    As to the transcript, I have now read it, and nothing in it really surprises me. For every lambaste of the federal response that I’ve read in the paper, I’ve also read similar criticisms of Nagin. I didn’t read the responses as overwhelmingly in favor of Bush and his address, but they were generally favorable. I don’t have this perception that everyone affected by Katrina somehow hates Bush and think he hates blacks. I’ve gone overboard trying to express that. I would assume that, since this is a country of hundreds of millions of people with hundreds of millions of opinions, that opinion amongst those affected would be varied. This strengthens that assumption.

  27. Getting back to the original topic for a moment, the administration that won’t “play the blame game” is looking to blame environmental groups.

    I saw that on TalkingPointsMemo this morning, Michael. Gotta admire the chutzpah…

  28. I would have to disagree with you. I first set out to be a teacher. Going into the family trade came after I realized that teaching was too stressful for me.

    Teaching was too stressful, so he became a cop. THANK you, ladies and gentlemen!

    Between this and my new discovery that driving a bus puts me in the elite among drivers I think I qualify for The Avengers. Or at least Justice League Unlimited but hëll, who doesn’t?

    The difference in our interpretation of his comments is this: Apparently you see him presenting this as fact. I donā€™t. I see him presenting it as opinion.

    Well, that does explain things a bit. For me, I heard him say nothing that would make what he said opinion. He stated it as though it were fact and nobody who has any respect for him could be blamed for assuming he knew what he was talking about.

    Bill: The left doesn’t excuse Sharpton, they ignore him
    uh huh. The guy who spoke at the Convention?

    Yes, I think the Al Sharpton of 20 years ago was incredibly divisive.

    No argument there: From wikipedia:
    it is also alleged that after calling a Jewish shopkeeper a “white interloper,” he looked on while an associate of his suggested the Jew’s shop should be burned down. When a black member of the crowd did so, killing several including himself, Sharpton initially denied having been present. When confronted with a video tape showing his presence, he said: “What’s wrong with denouncing white interlopers?”

    I could accept that he’s cleaned up his act if he could come clean about his past. he hasn’t. he still thinks that Tawana Brawley was telling t he truth. This after he was found guilty of libeling people with his accusations. The republicans have problems but I think they would be unlikely to put up with a proven race hustler like Sharpton.

    Knuckles, you are obviously a good guy. Not trying to butter you up or anything. You are a better writer than you give yourself credit for and it obviously pains you that some of us are taking offense at what you wrote. I think we may be talking past each other here–when you say that “I firmly believe that there are people in Louisiana who, as a result of their life experiences, legitimately feel that they werenā€™t helped because they were black.” I have to wonder–what, exactly is an illegitimate feeling? If facts don’t matter, how can any feeling, as long as it is sincerely felt, be unworthy of respect, from your point of view?

    If you honestly think that Sharpton was a valid candidate for the Democratic nomination, you weren’t playing really close attention to the party itself. He had just slightly more of a chance of getting nominated than Carol Mosely Braun and Dennis Kucinich. His campaign was primarily about salvaging his image amongst the party moderates.

    Well, ok, but in return you have to promise never to refer to Pat Robertson as a valid candidate for the Republican nomination!

    As for the blaming of environmentalists, two points–either you are FOR finding blame or against it. If it turns out that environmental groups prevented the kinds of development that would have stopped it, well, that’s where the chips will fall.

    My second point though…maybe the environmental groups were right. there may be a limit to how much we can be willing to change nature to fit our desire to have New Orleans be a city of several hundred thousand instead of a much smaller, environmentally feasible city.

    At the very least, I hope there will be some consideration to preventing certain things from being allowed in the New New Orleans. A city that will flood–and it will–is no place to, say, store toxic wastes. They should look at the sources of the toxic pollutants in the waters they are pumping and do what is needed to be sure that the next time they will not be added to the flood waters.

    Wish I could be optimistic but I think that we will soon be seeing corruption on a level that will be truly breathtaking–Louisiana politicians with a blank check. It’s gonna be wild.

  29. I have to wonder–what, exactly is an illegitimate feeling?

    This would be the oft-repeated playing of the “race card”.

    Well, ok, but in return you have to promise never to refer to Pat Robertson as a valid candidate for the Republican nomination!

    Never have, never will (the Republican voters of Washington felt differently some years back, but that’s because the caucus was unexpectedly flooded with Robertson supporters).

    As for the blaming of environmentalists, two points–either you are FOR finding blame or against it. If it turns out that environmental groups prevented the kinds of development that would have stopped it, well, that’s where the chips will fall.

    Can’t argue with that. What I take issue with is that this appears to be the FIRST course of action the administration is taking.

    Well, that does explain things a bit. For me, I heard him say nothing that would make what he said opinion. He stated it as though it were fact and nobody who has any respect for him could be blamed for assuming he knew what he was talking about.

    There is a huge difference then. I heard him giving his opinion. He may state it flatly: “George Bush doesn’t care about black people”, but it’s still his opinion. I, for one, haven’t declared him a sociologist of record, but he very well may know what in the hëll he’s talking about. I’m not about to say he doesn’t, because I haven’t the evidence to refute it. I may think he’s wrong and may say so, but that ALSO is my opnion.

    My second point though…maybe the environmental groups were right. there may be a limit to how much we can be willing to change nature to fit our desire to have New Orleans be a city of several hundred thousand instead of a much smaller, environmentally feasible city.

    What you say here is something I accept as fact: There IS a limit to how much we can change nature to fit our desire to do anything. It has been repeatedly demonstrated in the past that nature can, and will, kick our áššëš. If you are going to attempt to modify it, I personally can’t stop you. But you’d best be prepared to handle disaster (New Orleans and the US Government was NOT, in this particular case) and deal with the aftermath. Or, you could try doing something else. Unfortunately, we rarely try doing something else.

  30. I could accept that he’s cleaned up his act if he could come clean about his past. he hasn’t. he still thinks that Tawana Brawley was telling t he truth. This after he was found guilty of libeling people with his accusations. The republicans have problems but I think they would be unlikely to put up with a proven race hustler like Sharpton.

    Now, that’s not what I heard in some post-debate interviews with him. He was questioned about it, and his defense (as lame as it was) was that “he was coming to the defense of a defenseless young, black woman”. No contrition, I’ll grant you, but he didn’t defend the girl. And correct me if I’m wrong, but the Republicans welcomed David Duke in a somewhat similar relationship (yeah, you can be Republican but no, we’re not going to help you out much).

  32. ” And correct me if I’m wrong, but the Republicans welcomed David Duke in a somewhat similar relationship (yeah, you can be Republican but no, we’re not going to help you out much).”

    The reaction was a weebit stronger then that.

    Duke’s beliefs and his running as a Republican were condemned and repudiated by every major figure in the party at that time. His biggest critic was the sitting President of the U.S., George Bush.

    Duke is also a lousy choice to hold up as an example of the Republican party’s version of Sharpton. Duke made many bids in a relatively short time frame as a Democrat, an Independent and as a Republican. Sharpton has always claimed the Democrat party as his home.

    And Sharpton still defends the Tawana Brawley case, her claims and his actions in it from time to time. If I can find a link to a recent story I’ll post it for you.

  34. And actually, both of you are right. I should have gone for the easy mark: Pat Robertson. Other than some semi-harsh words from the current administration regarding his comments on assassinating Hugo Chavez, he has never been repudiated by the GOP that I am aware of. I’d love to see if if he has.

  35. Here’s a piece on Sharpton from 2003:

    Profile on Slate

    And the below is almost verbatim what he said in the post-debate interview:

    Sharpton stands by Brawley’s story. In May 2002, when the Associated Press asked whether he would apologize to Pagones, Sharpton replied: “Apologize for what? For believing a young lady?” Referring to his incipient presidential campaign, Sharpton continued, “When people around the country know that I stood up for a young lady … I think it will help me.” In March 2003, when the Washington Post asked whether Sharpton could have expressed sympathy for Pagones after the prosecutor was cleared, Sharpton replied that Brawley “identified Pagones. I was her spokesperson. I cannot turn around in what I said I believed.” As to the jury verdict against him, Sharpton told the New York Daily News in July 2003 that “a jury said in the Central Park jogging case ā€¦ that I was wrong, and it was just overturned 13 years later. Juries can be wrong. I’ve stood by what I believe. Juries are proven wrong every day.”

  36. knuckles, my objection to West was not his statement about Bush not caring for Black people. That’s obviously opinion. It was still a dumb time and place to say it and illustrates that West cares more about himself than the people he was supposedly trying to help but it’s his opinion.

    What I objected to was his statement of fact that **…they’ve given them permission to go down and shoot us!”. Indefensible race baiting.

  37. It also occurs to me that the fact that pictures of poor Black people suffering has resulted in the single greatest amount of charity donations in our history. This should give people like Mr West pause. Perhaps the country isn’t as predisposed to hating and harming minorities as he believes.

    I doubt that will happen but they say he’s smart so there’s hope.

  38. I don’t think Bush created a new reality. I think bin Laden and his people created a new reality. Bush just exploited it.

    Bin laden just opened our eyes to the reality that was already there. Bush’s reality is the one that’s an artificial creation.

  40. It also occurs to me that the fact that pictures of poor Black people suffering has resulted in the single greatest amount of charity donations in our history. This should give people like Mr West pause. Perhaps the country isn’t as predisposed to hating and harming minorities as he believes.

    I doubt that will happen but they say he’s smart so there’s hope.

    Hey, that’s what I said.

    What I do hope is that the response of the people of America does more to show these people who might be crying race now that they are mistaken. The actions of America will speak louder than anyoneā€™s words. Iā€™ve donated to the Red Cross, and my wife has volunteered with the county government to go down to New Orleans to be part of the recovery efforts. Iā€™ve got friends who are driving down to Houston to pick up a family to bring home with them for a while. I appreciate what West said, and will defend it simply because I think itā€™s his right AND I think itā€™s something he legitimately feels. But I also think that what I, you, and my friends and family are doing speaks far louder than anything any freaking rapper says on TV.

    It may be cliche, but it’s true: actions speak louder than words.

  41. Bill, re:

    “Teaching was too stressful, so he became a cop. THANK you, ladies and gentlemen!

    Between this and my new discovery that driving a bus puts me in the elite among drivers I think I qualify for The Avengers. Or at least Justice League Unlimited but hëll, who doesn’t?”

    LOL!

    And also, we’ve learned that you’ve got that whole movie-making thing going, too … you might be even more qualified for superhero groupdom than the guy on that commercial who they let into a super group because he could turn objects into beer ….

  42. you might be even more qualified for superhero groupdom than the guy on that commercial who they let into a super group because he could turn objects into beer ….

    A- I’ve never seen this commercial and just from your description it may be one of my all time favorires
    and
    B- I disagree; truly, he would be the most beloved superhero of all time.

  45. Leave it to good ole Fred to find the true perspective…

    Whimpering About Poverty

    Maybe You Should Try The Real Thing

    Septmber 25, 2005

    Repeatedly I hear that the misbehavior in New Orleans sprang from the exigencies of poverty. I would offer a countering view. Permit me to start with the family of Violeta, mi pareja in Mexico. I know them well. Listen, and judge.

    Her father was born poor 78 years ago. Poor in Mexico in the twenties meant poor–dirt-floor poor, village well with typhoid and no sewerage poor, no safety net, no medical care, and government by caciques who had unlimited power and didnā€™t care whether you lived or died. It was hookworm, roundworm, pinworm, tapeworm poor. It was louse poor. Obesity from eating at McDonaldā€™s was not a concern. Just eating was a concern.

    Her Dad learned to read from an aunt who had learned in a Catholic school. In Mexico then, as in the United States now, the Catholic schools were better than the public, when the latter existed. He then apprenticed himself to a primitive machine shop, the only kind available, and became a valve-maker.

    Eventually he hired on with a company, saved hard over the years, and bought a house, now paid off, in which he still lives. Buying a house for a Mexican worker then required grim determination. After thirty-six years he retired with a pension adequate to support life. In all this time, he did not sack a single city.

    Poor doesnā€™t mean ignorant. He read whatever he could find, to include newspapers daily. He knows a lot of history and geography. If you mention, say, Ceylon, he knows where it is, and the capital. Do American college graduates?

    He wasnā€™t shiftless, you see. Poverty is a condition characterized by a lack of money. Shiftlessness involves a lack of backbone, morals, independence, self-respect, and drive. They are not the same thing. Of course, if you are shiftless, you are likely to be poor.

    ((The rest of it is here…))

    http://fredoneverything.net/FOE_Frame_Column.htm

  47. Oh, come on!!!

    Former FEMA Director Places Blame

    (CBS/AP) Former Federal Emergency Management Agency director Michael Brown defended his role in responding to Hurricane Katrina on Tuesday and put much of the blame for coordination failures on Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin.

    “I very strongly personally regret that I was unable to persuade Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin to sit down, get over their differences, and work together,” he told a congressional panel. “I just couldn’t pull that off.”

    more at

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/27/katrina/main886469.shtml

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