In the interest of full disclosure, I will state what most of you already know: I wrote the novelization of “Fantastic Four.” So obviously it’s to my benefit for the film to do well. Anyone who feels that linkage to the film colors my opinion can disregard it as he or she sees fit.
Now–
Just came back from the FF screening in the city. I heard a number of adults crabbing about how terrible it was, and I was left wondering whether they saw the same film I did. I then asked every kid I could find who was in attendance what they thought of it, and kids of (literally) all ages loved it. Girls liked Sue Storm, boys grooved on the Thing and, particularly, the Human Torch. No one loved Reed. But, hey, what else is new?
Whatever you’re expecting in terms of the more mature angle that comic book films have taken, be it “Batman Begins,” “Sin City,” or even the sophistication of X2…to enjoy “Fantastic Four,” you simply have to set the wayback machine in your mind back to when comic books (and movies thereof) were mostly cornball fun. Think “Superman” but without the camp. Some mild spoilers follow:
It’s a well-made film with some wince-worthy dialogue that you then realize could have (and possibly did) come straight out of Silver Age FF, and a lot of sequences that just nail the entire squabbling-yet-loving family nature of the FF. The film is at its best when it keeps it small. The character interactions, the throwaway casual uses of their powers. Johnny’s tormenting of Ben, including a hilarious practical joke while the Thing is sleeping. And you sit there and say, “That’s the FF.”
When it goes big, there are stumbles. The main problem centers on Doctor Doom. My concern was not that they changed Victor Von Doom from a Latverian monarch to a corporate douche bag. My concern is that Von Doom blames Reed Richards for the accident that essentially ruined Von Doom’s life. In the comic book, this blame is misplaced. In the film, it’s not. That Von Doom goes bonkers as a result doesn’t change the fact that Reed really IS responsible. I’ll grant you, that’s consistent with the comic in that Ben blames Reed for rushing them into space without the proper shielding in place. But the thrust of the comic isn’t Ben trying to kill Reed as a consequence. In this case, the FF isn’t battling a supervillain so much as they are doing damage control, cleaning up after the mess the themselves made (or at least that Reed made).
But there’s more than enough in the film to make it worthwhile nevertheless. The Thing should defnitely be seen on a big screen, because all the cries of “Foam rubber” were misplaced. Between the acting, the sound effects, and a few CGI boosts, you’ll believe a man can be made out of rock. And the must-see of the film remains the Human Torch. Basically he’s an exuberant jáçkášš, but hey, again, that’s Johnny. That he’s not callow doesn’t bother me. After all, he grew up and married a Skrull in the comics, so why not just start with him as the older model? Instead of being a teen and thus expected to be a jerk, he’s a guy who refuses to grow up. Johnny Storm with the ultimate in Peter Pan syndrome considering he really DOES learn to fly.
Several key scenes were in the script but not in the film, which would have topped two hours had they been there. These include an entire sequence with Ben attending a soiree at Alicia’s art gallery, and Johnny running afoul of a football star and his date at a singles bar. I’ll be interested to see if they show up back in the eventual DVD release, as they were excellent scenes (although admittedly they didn’t advance the plot much.)
Bottom line, go in expecting a hip, up-to-date rethinking and redefining of the FF, and you’re largely going to be disappointed. Expect a reasonably faithful (Von Doom issues aside) translation of the style, spirit and stories of the Silver Age of comics, and you’ll have a great time.
PAD
• 
I saw the FF movie last night and generally found it enjoyable – a lot more enjoyable than advance word led me to suspect. To my surprise, the standout character – the one I most enjoyed simply watching when he was on screen – was Johnny, who in the comics has always been the weakest link in the team for me (Ultimate Nullifiers and the like notwithstanding). I also agree with those who’ve said that the Doom portrayal was disappointing. His motivations _were_ obscure and confusing. They hinted at his vanity by showing his being bothered by his scar (and what ever happened to that falling-out hair?), but then he seemed to embrace being turned into metal!
One point I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else here make is that the downfall of his company made little sense. First of all, he was obviously a guy with a strong business track record, so you’d need an Enron-style debacle to get the bankers to call in his loans. The debacle in question, however, was apparently (I’m not sure this was explicitly stated) what happened up on his space station. Now, if you were a successful businessman who had just been in on the creation (however accidental) of a team of suddenly very popular super-heroes, don’t you think you’d be able to spin the situation to the P.R. advantage of your company (and finance tends to follow P.R.)? I got the feeling that there may have been some dropped scenes that would have made more sense of Doom’s declining fortunes. As far as I was concerned, they could have instead dropped most of the scenes around Ben’s ex Debbie, especially that excruciating bridge encounter, which just left me feeling, “What a bìŧçh!” OTOH, it provided a nice moment when Reed gave Ben the ring he couldn’t pick up with his club-sized fingers.
I could make many other comments, but I’ll just mention one problem with the Sue Storm character that, again, I haven’t seen anyone mention. They took pains to introduce Sue as an accomplished geneticist – in the modern world, we can’t have her just be “the girlfriend” – but when it comes time to work on curing Ben of what has presumably been an alteration of his DNA, she leaves all the work to Reed. (Compare this with Ultimate FF, where Reed is portrayed as a physics genius rather than a scientific jack-of-all-trades, and Sue is a brilliant biologist.) And it would have been cool if Reed’s machinery looked more Kirby-esque and less like leftovers from Cronenberg’s remake of “The Fly.”
There are many other nitpicks I could make about the film, and it could certainly have been better, but the fact of the matter is that despite these flaws, I enjoyed it a good bit. I especially loved the classic teamwork displayed in defeating Doom, even if the battle was a bit too brief. (But isn’t the correct answer to “What happens if you rapidly cool hot metal?” that it becomes brittle? Or do I have metal confused with glass?)
“Am I the only one who noticed that Stan “The Man” Lee actually got to play a character that HE CREATED instead of a generic walk-on character written for the film adaptation? Willie Lumpkin was always among my favorite “comedy relief” characters in comics and it was nice to see Stan play him, especially since he was too old to play J. Jonah Jameson in both Spiderman films.”
I caught that too. Plus it was nice to see Stan get a speaking part for a change; isn’t this the first time he’s ever spoken in a live-action Marvel film?
He had lines in Hulk, and there was a “look out!” in one of the Spider-Man movies, as he’s grabbing someone out of the way from debris. I saw an interview with him discussing his FF role, and he said he ad libbed a good portion of his lines. Not sure how much of that would make it to the finla print, though.
The interview was with Kevin Smith. It’s truly fascinating for anyone with a love of comics. One of things I found really neat was how Stan will forget he helped create the characters while sitting in the theater and watching them on the big screen. He’s just taken with the marvel (cough cough) of it all, in terms of how todays SFX can actually put into motion the amazing powers these characters have.
“Why give Alicia drawing tools if she didn’t draw anything?”
She was probably coming back from drawing something. I try to bring a pen, pad and tape recorder wherever I go in case something happens, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to generally be writing when I’m trying to relax in a bar.
The scene got across that she WAS an artist. For this movie, for me, that’s enough.
SHE’ S BLIND!!
That’s why she’s a SCULPTOR.
She can’t see to draw.
“This is, to me, what made Batman Begins the best comic origin movie yet: even taking all the Batman stuff out, and it was just a plain good movie.”
Bobb, you nailed it. I hope I didn’t come across too harsh in my comments, but I’m a decades-long Marvel Zombie (R) who also happens to work in the film biz, so this sort of sloppy filmmaking really galls me. I couldn’t care less about their costumes or how faithful the details are to the comics, but I could see the botched development and execution of the film right up there on the big screen. Very sad, especially knowing what this could have been. Hopefully, now that a sequel is all but ensured, a bit more time, money, and care will lead to a much better FF2.
Ray
Paul wrote: “I caught that too. Plus it was nice to see Stan get a speaking part for a change; isn’t this the first time he’s ever spoken in a live-action Marvel film?”
Stan’s cameo was like a slap in the face. His voice is so dang distinctive, I’d have known it was him with my eyes closed. And the fact he played a character who actually had a line — Willie Lumpkin — was a nice touch. It could have only been better if Stan had demonstrated the comic book Willie’s lone power: Wiggling his ears.
“It could have only been better if Stan had demonstrated the comic book Willie’s lone power: Wiggling his ears.”
LMBO!
I’m glad that someone else remembered that classic FF issue where they were looking for a replacement for Ben. I think that even Fred Hembeck made that touching scene the McGuffen for the “FF Roast.”
Getting back to the film, I thought it was an interesting choice to “re-visualize” Alicia. Interracial relationships weren’t even explored in Marvel until the Vision/Scarlet Witch romance in The Avengers. It should be interesting to see how this subplot develops.
Also, I don’t recall anything romantic happening between Doom and Sue in the comics. Could this have been an amalgamated plot fusing the SubMariner/Reed/Sue triangle with the traditional “You upstaged me, Richards, for the last time!” origin/re-introduction stories in the comics? Does that mean Doom might crash The Wedding instead of Subby in the sequel? Hmmmmm….
I hope I didn’t come across too harsh in my comments, but I’m a decades-long Marvel Zombie (R) who also happens to work in the film biz, so this sort of sloppy filmmaking really galls me. I couldn’t care less about their costumes or how faithful the details are to the comics, but I could see the botched development and execution of the film right up there on the big screen. Very sad, especially knowing what this could have been.
Ray, any chance you could tell us some of the films you’ve worked on? I find my enjoyment of something goes up 1000% when I have some connection, however tenuous, to the creative people behind it.
Your comments are spot-on. TI have no doubt that Tim Story wanted to make a good FF movie, just as Mark Johnson wanted to make the ultimate Daredevil movie. Why neither succeeded to the same degree that Raimi on Spidey or Norrington on Blade did is worth pondering. I know many breathed a sigh of relief when Peyton Reed dropped out as director but dman if the man didn’t do an amazing job of achieving a “look” on Down With Love…I can imagine him having made one hëll of an FF movie.
BID Big Time. But since there has been some talk of the Spider-Man movies, here goes. Just read in CBG that Topher Grace will be in the next Spider-Man movie. Rumor has it he will take over the role of Peter Parker/Spider-Man. Am I the only one worried that he will play the role of —The Clone!!!
SHE’S BLIND!! That’s why she’s a SCULPTOR. She can’t see to draw.
Last I checked, you didn’t need sight to be able to draw.
Just means you can’t see the results. But there’s nothing wrong with that.
It also means your drawings will look like šhìŧ.
I saw the movie the other day. It was filled with plot holes, poor characterized, campy, one-dimensional and shallow, and just flat-out mediocre. Thank God I didn’t have to pay for it.
Hi PAD, I’ve got to tell you that I was one of the disappointed adults in the crowd. I didn’t want or expect a “dark” film, I wasn’t expecting Shakesphere. I just wanted a film with better writing, directing and the adventure of the comic. The actors were great, they weren’t given the story and direction to make a great film.
Ray, just curious, but do you remember what it was like to see shows before you had industry insight? I nearly minored in theater arts in college, and ever since I first took some stage-support classes, learning a lot of the tricks they use to create “the illusion,” I’ve been increasingly critical of both stage and film productions. Production errors that make it on screen, be they set/prop related, dialogue, or editing, really take me out of the atmosphere the film is trying to create. Wy wife had a hard time getting through Batman Begins the first time because she thought the mole/sty on Bale’s nose was playing hide and seek…she’d see it in one scene, not see it in another, or it’d be on the other side of his face.
The opening box office take sure says otherwise, and I’m glad that not all in the movie audience isn’t a picky at me. While I don’t know that FF is the summer savior that the news is trying to make it out to be, I’m glad that it appears to be doing well enough for studios to continue attempting to make comic-based movies. I’ve seen all but the Blade sequals, Catwoman, and Elektra (and now FF), and I’ve liked all of them.
Yes, even Daredevil and Hulk.
Bobb, I know you’re questions wasn’t directed at me, but theatrical training makes bad movies worse, but good movies better. Voice your opinions too much, though, and your friends might not want to see movies with you anymore…
Any chance the DVD will have a director’s cut like Daredevil did? If so, I *might* get the DVD (Daredevil made sense with the director’s cut – though I liked it to begin with, the DC made a huge difference).
You’re absolutely right, Robbnn. I can’t get through a bad movie, and I’ve ruined a few friends’ impressions of movies by pointing out some of the defects I see. On the other hand, when a movie does get things right, it adds so much. And when an average movie does something really clever, it can elevate my opinion. Sky Captain was only a so-so movie, but just knowing how they were doing every shot made it a treat to watch. And I remember seeing people walk out of the first 15 minutes of Moulan Rouge, because it was so over-the-top musical stage on crack production, but once you get past that, it’s really just a fantastic old-time movie musical tragedy.
Randall Kirby,
“SHE’S BLIND! THAT’S WHY SHE’S A SCULPTOR! She can’t see to draw”
Craig Ries,
“Last I checked, you didn’t need sight to be able to draw. Just means you can’t see the results. But there’s nothing wrong with that.”
Randall Kirby,
“It also means your drawings will look like šhìŧ.”
Not necessarily, Randall. You aware that Beethoven was deaf, right? So using your logic, there’s no way he could have done his pieces, because, how could he make such beautiful, powerful music when he couldn’t hear it?
People overcome obstacles in their lives every day.
Bethoven isn’t the best example in this case, as he didn’t start to lose his hearing until he was 28, well into his career. Since he was a composer as well as a musician, he (like many such extreme talents) “heard” the music in his head, and he would transcribe his talent into musical notation. By the time he started losing his hearing, he no longer needed to physically hear music in order to create it. I think it’s also questionable the extent of his hearing loss.
But I think the point is, you don’t necessarily need to have the obvious sense associated with certain forms of art in order to create it. I’ve read of paintings made by elephants selling for thousands of dollars…and they’re at least as “good” as what some fully functional adult humans pass off as “modern” art.
Would a blind person be able to draw a likeness of a specific person? Doubtful, unless they had very accurate dimensional measurements to go from. But someone without sight could certainly use traditional pencils/pens/markers to create some form of art. Whether it would appeal to any individuals is of course up to the beholder.
Jerome Maida: Beethoven was not 100% deaf. He had to struggle to hear his music. He also had a rich musical background before he started to lose his hearing. The problem with the film Alicia is that she’s not the comic book Alicia. From what I remember of the comics Alicia was made 100% blind by an explosion of Puppet Master’s clay. The film Alicia is a big question mark so the fans revert to the comic book version for reference.
There are plenty of things to complain about in the film, but the one that I haven’t seen anyone mention is the transformation of the Thing at film’s end. At the post-fight wrap party, Reed tells Ben he will get right back to work on a cure, and Ben essentially tells him, “nah, I’m good like this.” This after an entire film spent agonizing over his transformation into a monstrosity. This after losing his girl, whose picture he carried around for much of the film. His transformation into a monster shattered her life in many of the same ways it did his, and though her decision to “give back the ring” was certainly not the action of someone ready to honor “for better or for worse,” her reason for doing so were at least somewhat understandable.
Ben’s story arc is utterly bizarre. Misery to complacency in no easy steps. Had he been placed in a position after Doom returned him to human form of knowing he could not go back to Ben if he reversed the process again, it might have been a little more understandable. Instead, he blows off everything that has led to that point in the story. That he determines that he doesn’t want to change back, rather than merely forgiving Reed for what happened and accepting whatever fate has in store for him, is just weird.
Sre, a person who is blind could draw, because they have hands.
But try this. Close your eyes, draw something. Chances are, it looks like šhìŧ. Perhaps if you practice drawing with your eyes closed, you could get better at it.
But if you can’t see the paper in the first place, you won’t know if your art looks good or looks like šhìŧ.
And what are you going to do with your art once you’ve drawn it?
File it?
How are you going to know which piece is which?
I’m not saying blind people can’t overcome obstacles. I have blind friends.
I’m saying drawing is very very unrealistic for a blind person.
(And they don’t read comic books, either.)
I haven’t seen the film, even at this late date. I was really turned off by the fact they made Reed Richards so much younger looking. I figured if hollywood can’t even get this fact of casting correct, the film will suffer in other elements. However, I may see it this coming weekend and reserve final judgement till then
…I saw the movie the other day. It was filled with plot holes, poor characterized, campy, one-dimensional and shallow, and just flat-out mediocre. Thank God I didn’t have to pay for it…
but jessica alba does wear a tight outfit so it all evens out 🙂
ALL STAR BATMAN & ROBIN #1 comes out today!!!!!
joe v.
I did take my six-year-old to see it. For the record, a nosebleed does not count as serious blood. 🙂 I did have to cover his eyes at the murders of the guy in the parking garage and the doctor (who was definitely dead, his eyes were open and that’s movie-code for “he ain’t comin’ back no more no more”). But I’ve seen enough movies to tell when something like that is coming, and I’m quick with the hand-over-the-eyes. That’s harder with Wolverine on the screen, I have to say. 🙂
That said, my son – who adores even the Schumacher Batman movies, the Superman movies, the X-Men and worships Spiderman – was bored. He now worships Johnny the Torch Guy (his words) and flies around the apartment shouting, “Flame On!” But the action wasn’t enough for him. First time that’s happened in a superhero movie (except “Hulk” – he fell asleep, but he was younger then). 🙂 I think the pacing was a bit off.
I enjoyed it for the most part. Wasn’t thrilled with Reed, Sue and her eye makeup (which should have gotten credit as an extra) annoyed me. But the Thing and the Human Torch were great. I will agree with analysis of the ending, however – it was so blatantly a setup for a sequel that I found myself slightly cheated.
Still, I think this one’s being added to our pantheon of DVDs.
“…the one that I haven’t seen anyone mention is the transformation of the Thing at film’s end. At the post-fight wrap party, Reed tells Ben he will get right back to work on a cure, and Ben essentially tells him, “nah, I’m good like this.” This after an entire film spent agonizing over his transformation into a monstrosity. This after losing his girl, whose picture he carried around for much of the film. His transformation into a monster shattered her life in many of the same ways it did his, and though her decision to “give back the ring” was certainly not the action of someone ready to honor “for better or for worse,” her reason for doing so were at least somewhat understandable.”
The reason why I didn’t comment on this is because Ben’s conflicting perspectives on whether he prefers to be the Thing or Ben Grimm has been recycled with each new creative team on the book, so why should the FF film be any different.
It was the on-going “If I’m The Thing, I’m ugly! But if I’m Ben Grimm, I’ll lose my superstrength and I can’t be part of the team anymore! Besides, Alicia loves to touch my bumpy face. What will I feel like with a ‘normal’ face to her? Will she stop loving me then?”
If anything, Ben having a wife BEFORE he becomes The Thing made me unsympathetic towards HER when he changed, not Ben! How many times have I heard “Men love women for their looks, but women love men for their PERSONALITIES?” As Ben said, he was the same guy INSIDE despite his appearance. The fact that she couldn’t accept it made her look shallow and bigoted! No wonder Ben ended up with Alicia! And I think that it was good writing AND the actress’ acting that made her a BETTER choice for Ben. Being able to save Reed and the world from Doom and finding UNCONDITIONAL acceptance afterwards more than likely prompted his final decision. Could he change his mind later? Possibly.
I can remember some John Byrne issues where The Thing became Ben again. He felt powerless and concerned that he could no longer be part of the FF and that Alicia wouldn’t “see” him in the same way as before, so Reed developed a special suit for him that resembled The Thing and it gave him partial-Thing strength. Eventually, he fought a super-villain that fired a cosmic ray at him, which caused him to revert to The Thing.
Maybe they’ll use that plot in a later film, in the same way that Spiderman II used the “Spiderman Costume found in a Trashcan” storyline.
No mention of the autographed photo of Devo in Reed Richards’ bedroom? It wasn’t merely a fleeting glimpse, it was on screen a good 10 seconds or so…
Yeah, changing Ben back should have been a non-repeatable event rather than an event that just required more power.
Hey, maybe Picasso was blind. That would explain a lot…
I guess originally the movie explained Ben’s inability to use the Reversion machine again by saying it used the mutated flowers to somehow run it and there was a limited amount of mutated flower matter to use.
I have been reading the FF since around issue #17, way back in the sixties, and was not disappointed by the movie. I’ve seen the movie twice now and I actually enjoyed it better the second time. Virtually every movie has plot holes (some more than others) and could be “improved”, but I thought this was MUCH better than most of the critic reviews. The two adults and three kids that I dragged along the second time also all liked it, none of them being current comic book fans.
I’ve read through some of the statements above (it’s getting too long to read all of it) and I have to say the people that criticize this movie are so off. Look I’ll admit I’m not a huge Fantastic Four fan. I think I’ve owned a total of three Fantastic Four comics in my life (No I’m not counting Ultimate FF which I have been collecting since the beginning).
All and all though, I think it was Marvel’s BEST team movie thus far and probably their 2nd best movie (following after DareDevil). The writer clearly READ THE COMICS, the casting was strong (Jessica Alba as Invisible Woman just rocked!), and it was a good origin story.
I mean let’s take a look at all the hallmark movies that everyone raves are the best Marvel movies. Let’s first start with the other team movies, X-Men and X2. Well X-Men started off with a random selection of X-Men characters that still makes no sense to me. There are a few dozen random and pointless changes (like Rogue suddenly becoming reject for the casting of My So Called Life 2000 or how Mystique looks like a blue porcupine and is Magneto’s lacky). They stole a great amount from the X-Men characters and they didn’t even have an X-Men TEAM. Then we leap to X2, which was a horrible attempt at God Loves, Man Kills and missing the entire point of the story! On top of that, it had to suddenly become Wolverine and those other mutant people.. Not the X-Men. Oh and Jean’s amazingly lame death. It felt like it was plugged in at the last minute to make way for the Phoenix storyline, but it wasn’t particularly powerful or even good like her original “death” in X-Men. I mean they had at least 2 people who could freeze the water and one who could pulverize the water with his optic blast.. and a whole host of mutants with unknown abilities, so.. let’s kill Jean? Yeesh.
Now onto Spiderman which was pretty solid, though I still don’t like Tobey McGuire as Peter Parker. He’s just too bland and emotionless (he apparantly went to the Keanu Reeves school of acting). Add to the fact that Mary Jane has been downgraded to the status of weak useless heroine, well it’s kind of a let down for me. Oh and 3 times they had to chime in with “With Great Power comes Great Responsibility”. It was so overkill. The huge let down though was Spiderman 2 which had plotholes big enough to drive a mach truck through. You have the “arms-made-me-do-it” Doc Ock, the sudden realization that Peter Parker can turn on and off his powers at will, and the gaggy messiah scene as Spidey is pulled off the front of the subway train and the kids say “We won’t tell..” while the adults have apparantly just forgotten their camera phones cause you know the realistic thing is that they’d cash in on it.
Now we get to the FF movie which only had a couple major changes. One of them is Doom who is quasi-responsible for his own origin (He could have aborted the mission just like Reed told him) and while it can be easily argued as “Damage control”, it’s beyond question that they are rather heroic in saving New York City and the people of NYC are probably unaware of Doom’s origins. Besides, I think his origin was so fitting since it’d take well over half the movie for him to build an army of robots to fight the FF. Instead they gave him powers, I found that acceptable (some people won’t ever like it). The only other major change was the age changes and that Sue and Reed had clearly dated before and broke up before, several times. I liked that. It worked well in the film and it was a way for them to get the two married and having kids (so we can see Franklin Richards on the big screen before we’re all 100).
I also think this movie was perfectly acceptable for kids, unless they have some sort of aversion to men wearing tiny pink ski jackets. The majority of the sexual energy in this movie was CLEARLY focused on Johnny (though Sue did look gorgeous as Jessica Alba always does). The man spends a good portion of the movie nekkid. I also think the lack of action was appropriate since they’re building a family. It was funny and I throughly enjoyed the film.
Malkie,
Opinions are of course a point of view, and you’re entitled to yours.
But you think DAREDEVIL is the BEST Marvel movie? DAREDEVIL? Other than screwing up Matt Murdock’s origin story, making his father a crook, having the Kingpin look and act like a character from a Saturday Night Live sketch, having Bullseye more silly than scary, having the ridiculous playground scene, making Daredevil a murderer so Ben Affleck could feel he had a “character arc”, having Elektra be the most lame superheroine in history as opposed to a deadly assassin and having Daredevil inexpicably reveal his identity to the Kingpin…what did you like?
Randall Kirby,
What precisely would make recognizing features you’ve never seen before and doing them well as a sculptor different than doing the same in a drawing? As a writer, I can say there is something special that goes on when I write, like the pen and paper are an extension of me. And I can’t draw a straight line. I would imagine the experience is multiplied a thousand times for someone with artistic ability.
>>I’m saying drawing is very very unrealistic for a blind person.
I could not figure out why you were all talking about Alicia having drawing tools. So, when I watched the movie again, I looked for them. Unless I missed a scene, Alicia didn’t have any drawing tools on her table at the bar. What you saw was her walking stick folded up.
KIP
I just saw the movie today, and I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would, from reading the reviews and listening to people. I had thought the movie would be horrible, and it was kinda cool.
I think that perhaps the biggest change was the same they make in most superhero movies. They made it more “realistic”, setting it in a world more like our own so the non-comic book fans can understand it easier.
On account of this, there is no “Jack Kirby” wow factor to be found. This is perhaps the biggest change that can turn off some of the fans. But, in this more “down-to-earth” background, it makes perfect sense for them to put a heavy emphasis on the family aspect and on the bickering bit.
And I suppose it’s a lot easier to for the public to accept and relate to Doom as a guy who owns a company, instead of a medieval castle… All the changes they made to Doom seem to stem from this: making him more integrated into a modern setting and more integrated with the FF.
Johnny and Ben were perfect. I’ve heard some complaining about the radical sports angle, but I think it’s a perfectly valid update of Johnny. If you want to show that a guy is “wild” in 2005, you have to do more than just make him good at working with hot rods.
Even Reed was not as changed as I’ve heard. Less confident, more vulnerable, without the Jack Kirby square-chinned big hero angle, but still basically Reed Richards, I think. I didn’t cared much for the actor’s perfomance, though (I can say the same for Doc Doom. Not that they were horrible, though).
Sue was the most changed of the Four, but frankly, on this day and age I think it wouldn’t go so well to make her a girly-girly housewife who just wants to be normal.
Her altered history with Reed and Doom can be considered necessary to give them personal stuff to deal with. In the comics, this angle usually appears when they bring Sub-Mariner in. But I suppose that for a variety of reasons it wasn’t possible to squeeze in Namor. So, in the movie, if they wanted to give Sue and Reed something to struggled with, they had to work with what they had already, so why not use Doom and make their relationship more rocky, I can see the people who made the movie reasoning in this direction.
All in all, it wasn’t a movie to change my life, but it was good and I can’t say it’s less faithful to the source than the other Marvel movies. Perhaps Spider-Man (the character himself, not his villains or Mary Jane) was more faithful, but the FF must rank a close second.
Oh, and to the fella who said Ben’s change should be a one-time event. Man! How many times Ben has changed back and then reverted to the Thing, just on the Lee/Kirby run alone? Sometimes it seemed like it would crop up once every 6 issues or so.
Actually, Rene, I meant that the machine should be a one-time event (as it stands, Ben can change back and forth whenever he wants if a stronger power source can be found). In the comics, correct me if I’m wrong, but Reed et al always found different ways to change Ben back. You rob the character of his angst if he can just go back to the transmogrifier and zap himself when he’s lonely.
Alicia in the comics – something that always bothered me were her various sculptures of people she likely could never meet and/or touch (how did she get a perfect rendition of the Hulk’s face? Why would the Black Panther pose for her?) and why would a serious artist work solely on Superheroes? Of course, that’s just picky-picky (like thinking Ben is an insensitive bøøb for bringing up the fact that she’s blind “but sees the world better than any sighted person” in EVERY BLINKING ISSUE!).
Despite all this, the FF has always been one of my favorite comics (except when various artists butcher the art).
[I]Ray, any chance you could tell us some of the films you’ve worked on? I find my enjoyment of something goes up 1000% when I have some connection, however tenuous, to the creative people behind it.[/I]
Hey Bill – well, i’m a small (and mostly ignored) cog in a very big machine, but I’ve worked on the Mummy films, Fast & the Furious, Spy Game, Josie, The Interpreter, the Dawn of the Dead remake, and a bunch of others. All development/pre-production work.
And Bobb… the funny thing is, if it’s a good, entertaining film, having any “industry insight” (for whatever that’s worth) is hardly ever an issue for me. In fact, it’s often easier for me to ignore some of the “flubs” that seem to bother so many “non-pros” (I hate that term because it sounds so condescending, but you know what i mean). I find it real easy to put on my film geek hat and simply enjoy a flick or TV show.
But a bad film – now those I think I have a harder time with, especially ones that I wish were good or think might have been good (like FF) if developed and executed differently and/or better. Geez – that bridge/firetruck sequence in FF had me in stitches due to its multiple contrivances and illogic. I know it was hampered by some reshoots and harsh editing, but there’s simply no way to excuse it. And as I’ve noted above, I’ve worked on some pretty bad s***. 😉
Ray
Saw the movie this weekend, and frankly it was one of the most enjoyable super hero films I’ve seen. Was it the best made? No, but it was light, fluffy and super fun, and really that’s all I ask for.
I agree that the normal voice from Doom’s mask wasn’t right..but then again, it was just a mask he put on..not power armor, not a speaker system, so why should the voice change?
The only real casting issue I have is that Chicklis seems too old to be this life long protector buddy of Reed’s…but he rocked, so we’ll ignore that.
Alba was just great. I bought her as a scientist….not sure what people think I scientist is like that normal people can’t be them. Cause she’s pretty? shurg.
Grufford was dead on too. His accent seemed to slip in a little, especialy in the opening scenes (and i really liked the flower scene…Reed doesn’t know how to talk to Sue but remembers some little detail like her favorite flower..and probably it was something she mentioned off hand once and he committed it to memory).
And Johnny was perfect.
Really, this was more Ultimate FF than Lee/Kirby FF, but so what..it was just a great fun movie!
Robbnn:
I get what you meant about the Thing now. This is probably something that could (and should) be better dealt with if the movie were longer. Just like more background on Alicia or even Doom.
But some of the things that usually bother fans don’t bother me. I’m not overly concerned with “logic”, I’m usually more worried about emotional impact. But yeah, I know that for some of the more analytical folks any emotional impact goes down the drain when there is a lapse in logic, but for this to happen to me it must be something pretty big. I suppose I’m just way more unashamed of being gullible than the average folk.
Re: Alicia in the comics.
Her blindness is the dramatic kind, instead of the real life kind, i.e. she is borderline psychic. She would sculpt people as they “really are” instead of what they appear to be, since she is “unburdened by the prejudices accompanying physical appearance”.
I also suppose that in a world were superheroes are real, there would be respected artists dedicated to this theme, just like there were/are artists dealing only with religious matters.
Hey, I like that. Empathy brought to a near-psychic level. Someone said that Alicia was blinded by her stepdad’s radioactive clay… that could all fit, then.
You raise an interesting point. If superheroes were real, would they be treated like celebrities (as done in the FF movie and oft-times in the comics) or something more? If there’s a nervous underlining fear about them (which I think I’d have with people who can pulverize planets — I mean, I’ve met a few professional boxers and it’s kind of creepy knowing these guys fight for a living and if I get them mad, I could be dead… it’s the realization, not the idea that they actually might, you understand) then Alicia’s subject matter would make sense. It just seems a little vapid – though these guys put their lives on the line so it’s a bit different than movie celebs.
Unfortunately, I can’t park logic at the door. When Hawkman hacks a bad guy’s arm off and caves in the heads of domestic abusers, it all falls apart if there are no ramifications (not to mention just tapping someone with a hundred pound mace with spikes on it would do major damage, but he does a full roundhouse swing). Maybe that’s a reason I’ve always liked the FF so much. They go broke paying for what they’ve wrecked…
If superheroes were real, would they be treated like celebrities or something more?
Well, that’s always been the interesting (and sometimes conflicted) thing with Marvel’s characters.
The (Marvel Universe) world seems to love the FF and Avengers. Spider-Man is villified by at least one media company, the X-Men are hated, the military wants to whack the Hulk.
Yet, they’re all super heroes, regardless.
So, while it’s interesting that people could cheer them on, it’s also conflicting that some are hated for being different, yet others are loved for it (when, in a nutshell, they’re ALL different from normal people, and it shouldn’t matter HOW they became different).
“The (Marvel Universe) world seems to love the FF and Avengers. Spider-Man is villified by at least one media company, the X-Men are hated, the military wants to whack the Hulk.”
Ya know, I blame this on the 90s. After the fiasco of the grim & gritty phase there was a “let’s go back to the fun” movement in the Avengers and FF related titles that, though pretty good, tried to make them as universally loved, bright, untarnished heroes.
But, before that, were the Avengers THAT loved? It seems like the population in the MU is as fickle as in the real world. They turn against the heroes with surprisingly ease whenever some villain frames the Avengers (it happened many times, with Nefaria, the Enchantress, etc.), they will villify Avengers who don’t conform to the All-American stereotype (Quicksilver, Wanda, the Vision, Sub-Mariner, all faced a lot of persecution when they were Avengers)…
It seems to me that, before 1997, it wasn’t really the Avengers people loved with such gusto, but some of their more “friendly” members, like Captain America, or the Wasp.
Now, the Fantastic Four is a special case. Even though they also faced some periods where the public wasn’t hot about them, they have some things going for them that most heroes lack. Like, they don’t wear masks, everyone know who they are, and they’re a clear-cut all-american family to boot. What’s not to like?