So Kath and I went to see “Sin City” last Friday, but things have been hectic and this is the first time I’ve had a chance to sit down and write my thoughts on it.
In seeing “Sin City,” I found myself reminded of something I’d long forgotten: Why I stopped reading “Sin City.”
Don Thompson always had, I thought, the best politic take: For those of you who like this kind of thing, this is the kind of thing you will like. If you like “Sin City” the comic, then the movie is a fan boy’s dream come true, recreated with a fidelity to the original that borders on the obsessive/compulsive. And the standout, of course, is Mickey Rourke’s “Marv,” oozing resigned determination from every celluloid pore.
But “Sin City” as a comic simply depressed me too much. The characters I liked always died, and the mood was just too relentlessly dark. I think of that moment in an early “Sandman” where Morpheus brings his demonic opponent–and, in short order, the entirety of hëll–to complete silence by saying, “I am hope.” If he stands in a bar in “Sin City” and announces he’s hope, he’ll just be greeted with raucous laughter and told he’s in the wrong place.
Loved Frank’s “Daredevil.” “Dark Knight Returns.” I even liked “Ronin,” which I still think is his masterpiece. But “Sin City” the comic was too unstinting in its noir, and the movie–while visually stunning–is even moreso. Compare and contrast it to “Pulp Fiction,” which is also noir, but manages to have humor (albeit sick humor) and hope of salvation.
It’s great to see that Hollywood can genuinely produce a major motion picture this faithful to the source material. It shows a level of respect and fidelity that hasn’t been accorded to everything from Shakespeare to “The Scarlet Letter.” It bodes well for the future (presuming the film does well). Now I just wish the source material spoke more to me.
PAD
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“The reason I found it interesting to see PAD make this comment is that this is why I did not like the Sir Apropos book “
I loved the Sir Apropos books, In fact for a long time I’ve thought if I ever won the mega lottery I’d pay to get the theoretical 4th and 5th books written.
(I know it’s off topic PAD, but is there any hope of more books?)
I think there is hope in them, one of the reasons Po hates himself is he’s not as cynical as he’d like to imagine he is.
I think there is hope in them, one of the reasons Po hates himself is he’s not as cynical as he’d like to imagine he is.
Apropos has an interesting character arc, whereby the 3rd book he Actually Kinda Gives A Shìŧ. This is, of course, completely blown away by the end of the book.
Hëll, I’d say the end of “Tong Lashing” is about as bleak and hopeless as anything in “Sin City”. (Great ending, though. I love me black stuff.)
Craig, women didn’t have power in this movie. The storyline with Dwight made this completely obvious. The ladies of Old City (Old Town?) kept the peace within their own district, but only within the limits allowed by the cops and the Mafia. And do I need to point out how quickly they start taking orders when a man comes along?
While we’re on the subject, why did Goldie have to seduce Marv if the ladies had any sort of control? The reason Kevin kept getting to eat people was because they were “just høøkërš” and no one would miss them.
I still enjoyed the movie, but I like taking things apart.
“Craig, women didn’t have power in this movie. The storyline with Dwight made this completely obvious. The ladies of Old City (Old Town?) kept the peace within their own district, but only within the limits allowed by the cops and the Mafia.”
But you could argue the same for all three players–the cops were obviously not in control and neither was the mob. In fact, the mob was probably in the weakest position, which is why they had to get the women and the cops fighting each other.
“While we’re on the subject, why did Goldie have to seduce Marv if the ladies had any sort of control? The reason Kevin kept getting to eat people was because they were “just høøkërš” and no one would miss them.”
Sometimes, when you have to fight a monster, you need to use a monster. I think the women together might have been able to kill Kevin–but only at an unfathomable cost. At any rate, you have to give Goldie some credit for control if it only took one night with her to turn Marv into an Exterminator Angel.
“But you could argue the same for all three players–the cops were obviously not in control and neither was the mob.”
On the other hand, none of those players had to have sex for a living and wear skintight leather.
“Goldie some credit for control if it only took one night with her to turn Marv into an Exterminator Angel.”
Yup, having sex. That’s what chicks are good for.
All in all, the movie wasn’t much of a feminist tract. But still fun.
And, y’know, Martha Washington kicked ášš, and stuff.
One of us has largely missed the point of the Sin City comics, Peter. 🙂
I think they’re a lot of fun. The violence and sex and noir in them is so over-the-top it’s downright comical. Sin City is the flip side to The Simpsons. There’s plenty of humor and regular doses of “hope of salvation” as you put it, although different stories have them in different amounts.
To my mind, Sin City is Pulp Fiction done right. I wish Miller would produce more of it.
“Yup, having sex. That’s what chicks are good for.”
I think you may be letting your evident contempt for prostitutes blind you to Goldie’s heroism. (Mind you, I’ve only seen the movie once). My take was that she knew that she was marked for death and instead of just running off and saving herself she manipulated Marv into becoming her avenger. She is like the Bruce Willis character–she dies so that others will live.
Tim Lynch writes: (Understand that the Merc in general is not exactly known far and wide for its movie reviews.)
It should be. I think the Merc generally does an excellent job of movie reviews. At least as regards the movies I’m at all interested in seeing.
The Merc in general is a rather underrated paper, IMO. If it were serving a more significant city, I think it would get a lot more attention.
You think the Merc does good movie reviews?
[cheap shot] Well, that certainly explains yours. 🙂 [/cheap shot]
More seriously … Bruce Newman is okay, but Glenn Lovell (whose name I haven’t seen lately — did he leave the paper?) always struck me as absolutely awful. He was petty and sneering about way too many things, and often confused “how well was the movie done?” with “is this the movie I’d have made?”
Give me a Kenneth Turan or an Elvis Mitchell any day.
I can’t really agree that the Merc’s all that great a paper overall, either — granted, it’s better than the SF Comical. I’ve been spoiled, though — my entire pre-Bay adult life was spent in LA, and the Los Angeles Times is a very solid paper. Before that, I was in and around New York — and the NYT, despite some of its flaws, is still pretty much the standard-setter in my book. (Even given its lack of a comic section.)
Hëll, even the Cornell Daily Sun was a heck of a paper while I was there. 🙂
TWL
“I think you may be letting your evident contempt for prostitutes blind you to Goldie’s heroism.”
I have no contempt for prostitutes, evident or otherwise. I have contempt for stories that can only depict strong women by focusing on their sexuality, because I consider that to be stereotypical rubbish.
“I have contempt for stories that can only depict strong women by focusing on their sexuality, because I consider that to be stereotypical rubbish.”
But you still consider it “fun”? Well, different strokes and all…
Goldie wasn’t exactly admirable. She did what she had to, but she set up Marv and didn’t even tell her sister what she’d been planning. In my mind, Gail was a lot more sympathetic and compelling.
Well, Peter, each to his own. Sure, it can seem depressing. And to paraphrase Marvin the Parnoid Android, why would we have characters we like die? The universe is filled with enough of good people dying, why make up more of it?
And yet, I loved this movie. Every sick, violent, and death-soaked minute of it. Although I hope it does not speak to me too much. I would not want to solve life’s problems like these guys.
But each to his own. Sin City is getting great reviews. I told my barber about it. After seeing it, he told me it was revolting (although he was not mad, and he still cuts my hair). This is the same barber who once showed me some icky internet pørņ that he thought was cool.
Each to his own. Just don’t play your stereo too loud.
OK, my wireless signal is getting weak. Time to post now; the heck with spellcheck.
One aspect of Sin City that isn’t getting enough attention–with all the talk we have had about censorship is anyone else pìššëd øff that we will be denied a Richard Rodriguez directed version of A PRINCESS OF MARS just because he had the gall to correctly list Frank Miller as co-director???
I don’t want to start an argument over the value of unions but how is it ok for a union to tell an artist how they can make their art? This would never be allowed to happen to a writer or a painter but movies are still apparently considered little more than consumer product with pretensions of art, seemingly even by some of the people who make them. It’s a dámņ shame.
And Rodriguez deserves credit for having the çøjøņëš to do the right thing.
It’s a dámņ shame.
I agree.
In this case, it sounds like the DGA isn’t so much a group there to protect directors as it is to keep them in line and to make sure the DGA maintains control.
That isn’t what a union should be about.
A lot has been said about the accuracy of the translation from comics to film. But that’s pretty easy when you’re using so much greenscreen.
And it’s not like Frank’s stories (or art) are that detailed. Plots were usually an afterthought. Over the course of all the Sin City comics, he threw in maybe a dozen references to other SC episodes, in an attempt to establish some kind of continuity. Not much, and it’s pretty weak, but it’s there.
With the movie, they finally had the opportunity to weave all of the serialized minis into one cohesive story. But they blew it. Showing Marv and Kevin again after they were already dead must have been confusing for some who never read the comics. How Dwight connects at all is a blur since they chose to include his sequel story. I don’t recall the senator ever getting his just desserts even in the comics, and on the screen this was a real sticking point.
Ehhh… I blame it on the director being an obsessive fanboy.
You know the main reason I liked Sin City so much? The story sticks with you. It dosent disappear from your mind 35 seconds after you walk out of the theater like so much other summer hollywood fluff (*cough*NationalTreasure*cough*)
I found myself thinking about the characters and events days after I saw the movie, and THATS the sign of a good, worthwhile film.
Yes, it went heavy on the monologuing
Yes’ the dialogue was sent up a little too much in places
and, yes, they did have a slap-happy, carefree approach to the violence at times, but you know what? All these semi-lame characteristics formed together to create something wholly unforgettable and completely hypnotizing,
Loved the movie, best of the year thus far.
(Now lets see if Batman Begins can live up to the uber-hype)
By the way, i don’t think anything can save Fantastic Four from the cornball its destined to be.
I see some major tongue-in-cheek comparisons to Roger Cormans 1994 disaster on the horizon…
I’m, probably stupidly, allowing myself the faintest glimmer of hope over the Fantastic 4 movie. Yes, the director has never impressed me in the past. Yes, what they did to Doctor Doom is terrible. yes, most of what we’ve seen so far has been less than blow you away impressive.
Um….where was I/ Oh right, well, the latest footage LOOKS nice. Maybe they can capture the essential coolness of suddenly gaining superpowers. They might be able to do something with the celebrity culture of today as it would treat paranormals. They have a good actor playing the Thing.
But Doctor Doom, oy. What eactly was so wrong with the classic Dr Doom that they felt he had to be changed? What?
But Doctor Doom, oy. What eactly was so wrong with the classic Dr Doom that they felt he had to be changed? What?
I can only guess that they’ve made the changes to try and keep the story moving along better.
It’s easier to squeeze Doom in on the same flight the FF took to get their powers than to explain why this guy is from some no-name country halfway around the world.
Hëll, even I don’t know much of Doom’s backstory, but I guess I haven’t really cared to learn it either. 🙂
You know, I actually LIKE the part about Doom being on the ship and bailing out on them when the rays hit. That’s pretty cool and they could have had his ship crash and burn, giving him the injuries that require the exoskeleton. And it would explain his bitterness–everyone else gets superpowers and all HE gets is a a T-shirt that says “My arch enemies went into space and all I got were these disfiguring facial scars”
But to take away his being ruler of a country and turn him into Donald Trump…how small. And if the villian is small how can we care about the good guys, especially when they outnumber him 4 to 1?
Three words about Sin City
Carla Gugino WOW!!!!!!!
I always thought she was hot but mmm mmmm !!!!
I liked the movie alot it really felt like a Sin city comic and the casting was very well done.Who ever did the cast selection gets a big fanboy pat on the back from me.
By the way was I the only one laughing out loud when the the guy with the arrow in his chest was still talking so nonchalantly”Hey guys should we go to a hospital or something”BWA-HAHAHAHAHA!!!
“By the way was I the only one laughing out loud when the the guy with the arrow in his chest was still talking so nonchalantly”Hey guys should we go to a hospital or something”BWA-HAHAHAHAHA!!!”
That was a riot, made funnier by the fact that there wasn’t a whole lot of humor in the movie.
They should have had him wheeled into the hospital at the end with the arrows stuck in his chest and head, still complaining.
Re: Doctor Doom
He is, I think, the FF’s biggest problem for making the transfer to the big screen. His armor isn’t photogenic, he has too much back story, he’s not really a visual bad guy once you get past the ugly armor (that hides his face, which means all he can do is melodrama), but he’s their number one enemy.
They should have done the Galacticus/Silver Surfer story.
I thought the movie was delicious fun, and think that those who are worrying about stereotypes really need to get a grip.
I felt the same way about Miller’s original “Sin City” graphic novels–too much noir is not necessarily a good thing. There has to be some light in the darkness, doesn’t there. The movie’s unflinching fidelity to its source material is both blessing and curse: “Sin City” is easily the most faithful comic-to-screen adaptation in the history of the relationship between the mediums, but if you didn’t like the source material, odds are you won’t enjoy the adaptation. I admire the technical skill Rodriguez shows, making better use of digital background rendering than “Sky Captain & the World of Tomorrow”–great production design, but nothing of interest happening in front of it–but it’s still “Sin City,” where the men are corrupt and the women are høøkërš, høøkërš with guns, ninja høøkërš with swords, etc.
Adoresixtyfour,
“There has to be some light in the darkness, doesn’t there?”
Well, Nancy being saved and having that angelic feel to her, that would seem to qualify.
“‘Sin City'” is easily the most faithful comic-to-screen adaptation in the history of the relationship between the mediums”
Absolutely. It’s as if the panels were literally just put on film.
“but if you didn’t like the sorce material, odds are you won’t enjoy the adaptation.”
Bûllšhìŧ. Two friends from work went with me to see the movie. They had not read a page of “Sin City”. They thought it was great fun. It also seems to be drawing a ton of critical raves, and i doubt very seriously many movie credits have read the books.
“it’s still “Sin City”, where the men are corrupt and the women are høøkërš, høøkërš with guns,ninja høøkërš with swords, etc.”
Actually, the women were not ALL høøkërš. That “ninja” you talk about stole the show (at least as far as my buds were concerned) and Hartigan was obviously far from corrupt.
It was a FANTASTIC film.
“but if you didn’t like the sorce material, odds are you won’t enjoy the adaptation.”
Bûllšhìŧ.
Umm. There’s a difference between not having READ the source material, and having read it and not LIKED it.
So, no bûllšhìŧ here, as far as I can see. 🙂
Cool, Marv will look stunning in that carefully laced beauty!