A pivotal issue in the series hits the stands this week. Whad’ja think?
PAD
68 comments on “FALLEN ANGEL #10–WHAD’JA THINK?”
In what way? Whatever potential “fans” there might be around for this series, DC doesn’t seem to be ACTIVELY PURSUING any of them at the moment. However, moving the title to Vertigo WOULD at least provide the publisher with an excuse to give FALLEN ANGEL a shot at better exposure.
This is assuming that there’s a big segment of fans who are not buying the book because they haven’t heard about it.
I’m not so sure that this is the case. The current comics buying market is so small and so insular in its tastes that I’m not sure they will respond to efforts from the publisher to promote the book. Even when you’ve had a stunt like U-Decide, which certainly drew a lot more attention to a book than most, the effects were not entirely successful.
I’m not entirely sure that publishers’ efforts are going to be that successful without revamping distribution structures on a wholesale basis…
“This is assuming that there’s a big segment of fans who are not buying the book because they haven’t heard about it.”
Frankly, given the book’s current sales figures, and given the usual LAISSEZ-FAIRE promotional practices of the publisher, I hardly think one even NEEDS to assume.
However, YOU might be assuming that DC has given the book a FAIR shake, but with HUNDREDS of books being issued EACH MONTH, it’s relatively EASY for an UNTESTED title to be ignored out of hand.
“I’m not so sure that this is the case. The current comics buying market is so small and so insular in its tastes that I’m not sure they will respond to efforts from the publisher to promote the book. Even when you’ve had a stunt like U-Decide, which certainly drew a lot more attention to a book than most, the effects were not entirely successful.”
Sorry, but the U-Decide stunt doesn’t really factor in this case, as we’re dealing with an DIFFERENT publisher. Although if you really want to dwell on that half-hearted promotional attempt, you might want to draw attention to the fact that Marvel NEVER announced THE WINNER.
Perhaps you should ask yourself this MUCH MORE RELATED question: has DC even BOTHERED doing IN-HOUSE ads in support of FALLEN ANGEL? ‘Cause they SURE AREN’T SHY about doing them for just about EVERYTHING ELSE they currently publish. I saw SIX such ads in #10 itself.
KET
“I liked the issue, but it’s a very swift read. A lot of comics seem to be trending this way, and it’s a concern for me.”
Well, in terms of pure wordage, “Fallen Angel” is as long or longer than my other works.
In any event, I don’t write it to be read. I write it to be reread.
PAD
“This is assuming that there’s a big segment of fans who are not buying the book because they haven’t heard about it.”
Roger, less than a month ago, a fan on a Newsarama thread basically said, “You know what Peter David should do? He should create his own Vertigo-esque book so he can explore stories with mature themes.” A couple of people immediately said, “You mean like he’s been doing for the last eight months in ‘Fallen Angel?'” The response: “Fallen Angel? What’s that?”
Then again, I had fans coming up to me at conventions saying, “Are you ever going to do anymore work for Marvel?” and I’d been writing “Captain Marvel” for two years.
Never, *never* underestimate the signal-to-noise ratio that hands like a shroud over any book that doesn’t get the full court press. DC did nothing to push the return of Kara in “Supergirl” and it took us six months to bring the sales up forty places in the Diamond ranking. They bang the drums for three months on Batman/Superman #8 with the return of Kara and it debuts at #1.
PAD
“#1 – Is Widle supposed to look suspiciously like crica mid-90s Lenny Kravits?”
He’s supposed to have a sort of rasta look to him, if for no other reason than I’ve gotten sick of seemingly every black villain (or hero for that matter) having a shaved head.
“#2 – Why did Wilde knock off that waitress?”
You know, I tried several different ways to have him express a reason. He didn’t like the service, he was still hungry, etc. But no matter how I tried to approach it, it just came across as being flippant at a point where I didn’t want flippancy. As if the waitress’ death was simply a set up for a punch line. So I decided the best thing to do was just to let the act speak for itself. That the true horror of it was that he was so dámņëd casual about it, it almost didn’t matter *what* the reason was.
PAD
I just have to say, I loved seeing Lee in the “Peace, Love, Linux” t-shirt. Nice touch. Your idea or the artist’s?
I manage a comic shop in Canada and would just like to share the fact that FALLEN ANGEL has gained new readers with every issue since #4 was released. It’s a slow climb, but an easy sell once the customer has given the book a chance. It’s so tough to make a new book fly these days with so much Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men etc clogging up shelf space, but when a comic is this engrossing, this GOOD, it makes it easier for me to get behind it as a salesperson.
I plan to make the most of the trade paperback when it is released. Too bad DC hasn’t provided a poster or some sort of promotional dealie for me to work with. I want this book to last.
By the way, almost every single Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan I have in the store has started reading Fallen Angel—just a tip for any retailers reading out there…
c.
Never, *never* underestimate the signal-to-noise ratio that hands like a shroud over any book that doesn’t get the full court press. DC did nothing to push the return of Kara in “Supergirl” and it took us six months to bring the sales up forty places in the Diamond ranking. They bang the drums for three months on Batman/Superman #8 with the return of Kara and it debuts at #1.
Ah, yes…well. Facts. Inconvenient things…
Perhaps I’m getting a bit disappointed with readership as a whole–what they say they want is not what they buy. When you point out examples of what they say they want in a book, they either shut up or ignore you….
Finally got a chance to pick this issue up. I’ve said something like this before, but THIS was my favorite issue!
As stated before I think we really get somethings cleard up and we really begin to see who some of these people really are.
Dolf really shines in this issue. I know the rumor out there is that Dolf is in fact Hitler. I think his views on good/evil and power/weakness really seem to fit with what I think Hitler might have thought at one time.
“You know, I tried several different ways to have him express a reason. He didn’t like the service …”
Just as well you didn’t, as people would probably have pounced on a comparison with KINGDOM COME where Vandal Savage casually snaps the neck of one of Luthor’s aides because she one sugar instead of two in his coffee. “Sorry, immortal habits die hard…”
Who’s the retailer? Because I’m perfectly capable of calling Diamond and asking if they really “failed to send” them, or if the retailer just didn’t bother to order it.
PAD
PAD,
I don’t blame you for wanting to check up on their ordering, after all I know you largely blame the retailers for your books not selling(Even though I believe it to be a mixture of retailers not ordering, publishers not advertising and consumers not buying.), but DIAMOND frequently does not ship books to retailers that they DO order. Things have been much better recently, but our store for example has been shorted copies of Daredevil recently as well as Exiles and Uncanny X-Men. Sometimes we have to go to other stores to get replacements if Diamond doesn’t have any available.
We carried Fallen Angel for the first 6 issues and we only sold 1 copy of issue 1 to a customer. We even put the book in our featured section and I told people about it and yet no one bought it except myself and the owner. It is very difficult to get consumers to try certain books out. Just the nature of the beast I guess. Fortunately we have recently gotten a subscriber recently to try out issues #7-11 after reading the description in Previews for #10. We reordered #7-9 for him so that he could read the whole story. Hopefully he’ll stick with it. We’re ordering copies for the shelf again so we’ll see how it works out.
“Goddammit would it KILL you to use the front door?!”Classic line that had me busting a gut laughing.Came into the story late (issue 7 i think) but i love this title.The Chaos vs Order argument was interesting.Much like the lines from Jurassic Park when Goldblums’ character was discussing Chaos theory and the natural order of things.Like that fact that Mariah is in crisis because her life is in someone elses hands .More to the point that she actually wants to die.Immortality would suck in the long term wouldnt it.Thanks for the info about the two finger salute .Who new Spike was flipping people off the whole time?
I figured she was on her way in giving God the bird, not knowing anything about the two finger version (nice touch). It was obvious to me what she was saying. Plus, I figured she was exhausted (being tortured and all) and she was slowly expressing herself.
Does Mariah want to die? Or the opportunity to die? And if she gets her mortality back, will she just die or grow old and then die? Could be interesting if it gets to that point.
Well, in terms of pure wordage, “Fallen Angel” is as long or longer than my other works.
In any event, I don’t write it to be read. I write it to be reread.
PAD
Fair enough, but is it as long as your works 5 years ago, or ten years ago? I just settled in to reread the Death of Jean DeWolff, and each issue seems to take a lot longer to read. I’m not asking for quantity over quality, and I do like titles that I will return to over time to reread. However, I do feel that comics as a whole read a whole lot shorter, and yours are no exception.
The shop I frequent just received the issue this week. To echo what Rich said, Diamond seems to short my shop on one or two titles each week. It’s not so bad when it is a DC title, because they can be reordered. It really hurts when it is a Marvel title lately because if Diamond doesn’t have any copies left, the shop owner has to try to track them down from other sources.
I know in my case it was not the store failing to order the title because it has been on my pull list since Issue #1 and the owner has not failed to get it for me yet.
Anyway, I enjoyed the issue and am looking forward to see how this arc resolves. I am caught up in the story and this continues to be one of my favorite books.
Okay, so you specified the two-finger salute, and it was drawn that way.
Will you now please explain why the dialog in an earlier issue referred to Dolph using a Walther P38 and what he was holding was a Luger P08?
And whose idea was the “Aston Martin” joke in Asia’s crypt?
And it’s nice to see that I-10 runs through Bete Noire. Always did like coming into town on I10 when i visited the place…
“Will you now please explain why the dialog in an earlier issue referred to Dolph using a Walther P38 and what he was holding was a Luger P08?”
Do I *look* like the artist? I specified in dialogue what he was supposed to be holding. I determined what was appropriate by doing a google search as to popular guns with the German SS. If the artist turned around and drew the wrong gun, there’s not a lot I can do about it.
“And whose idea was the “Aston Martin” joke in Asia’s crypt?”
Dave’s.
PAD
The esteemed Peter David explained the use of the wrong gun this way:
“Do I *look* like the artist? I specified in dialogue what he was supposed to be holding. I determined what was appropriate by doing a google search as to popular guns with the German SS. If the artist turned around and drew the wrong gun, there’s not a lot I can do about it.”
No one’s asking you to do an Alan Moore, and write a whole script page for a panel. However, some local artists I know have regular reference books for things like weapons – especially people who do military and science fiction material. If I could draw, and draw well, and worked with a really great writer who described a weapon…well, I’d consider it SOP to look up what the pistol looked like. Even if it was only on the Internet somewhere.
And in the artist’s defense…well, maybe he was hitting that ol’ deadline wall.
• 
In what way? Whatever potential “fans” there might be around for this series, DC doesn’t seem to be ACTIVELY PURSUING any of them at the moment. However, moving the title to Vertigo WOULD at least provide the publisher with an excuse to give FALLEN ANGEL a shot at better exposure.
This is assuming that there’s a big segment of fans who are not buying the book because they haven’t heard about it.
I’m not so sure that this is the case. The current comics buying market is so small and so insular in its tastes that I’m not sure they will respond to efforts from the publisher to promote the book. Even when you’ve had a stunt like U-Decide, which certainly drew a lot more attention to a book than most, the effects were not entirely successful.
I’m not entirely sure that publishers’ efforts are going to be that successful without revamping distribution structures on a wholesale basis…
“This is assuming that there’s a big segment of fans who are not buying the book because they haven’t heard about it.”
Frankly, given the book’s current sales figures, and given the usual LAISSEZ-FAIRE promotional practices of the publisher, I hardly think one even NEEDS to assume.
However, YOU might be assuming that DC has given the book a FAIR shake, but with HUNDREDS of books being issued EACH MONTH, it’s relatively EASY for an UNTESTED title to be ignored out of hand.
“I’m not so sure that this is the case. The current comics buying market is so small and so insular in its tastes that I’m not sure they will respond to efforts from the publisher to promote the book. Even when you’ve had a stunt like U-Decide, which certainly drew a lot more attention to a book than most, the effects were not entirely successful.”
Sorry, but the U-Decide stunt doesn’t really factor in this case, as we’re dealing with an DIFFERENT publisher. Although if you really want to dwell on that half-hearted promotional attempt, you might want to draw attention to the fact that Marvel NEVER announced THE WINNER.
Perhaps you should ask yourself this MUCH MORE RELATED question: has DC even BOTHERED doing IN-HOUSE ads in support of FALLEN ANGEL? ‘Cause they SURE AREN’T SHY about doing them for just about EVERYTHING ELSE they currently publish. I saw SIX such ads in #10 itself.
KET
“I liked the issue, but it’s a very swift read. A lot of comics seem to be trending this way, and it’s a concern for me.”
Well, in terms of pure wordage, “Fallen Angel” is as long or longer than my other works.
In any event, I don’t write it to be read. I write it to be reread.
PAD
“This is assuming that there’s a big segment of fans who are not buying the book because they haven’t heard about it.”
Roger, less than a month ago, a fan on a Newsarama thread basically said, “You know what Peter David should do? He should create his own Vertigo-esque book so he can explore stories with mature themes.” A couple of people immediately said, “You mean like he’s been doing for the last eight months in ‘Fallen Angel?'” The response: “Fallen Angel? What’s that?”
Then again, I had fans coming up to me at conventions saying, “Are you ever going to do anymore work for Marvel?” and I’d been writing “Captain Marvel” for two years.
Never, *never* underestimate the signal-to-noise ratio that hands like a shroud over any book that doesn’t get the full court press. DC did nothing to push the return of Kara in “Supergirl” and it took us six months to bring the sales up forty places in the Diamond ranking. They bang the drums for three months on Batman/Superman #8 with the return of Kara and it debuts at #1.
PAD
“#1 – Is Widle supposed to look suspiciously like crica mid-90s Lenny Kravits?”
He’s supposed to have a sort of rasta look to him, if for no other reason than I’ve gotten sick of seemingly every black villain (or hero for that matter) having a shaved head.
“#2 – Why did Wilde knock off that waitress?”
You know, I tried several different ways to have him express a reason. He didn’t like the service, he was still hungry, etc. But no matter how I tried to approach it, it just came across as being flippant at a point where I didn’t want flippancy. As if the waitress’ death was simply a set up for a punch line. So I decided the best thing to do was just to let the act speak for itself. That the true horror of it was that he was so dámņëd casual about it, it almost didn’t matter *what* the reason was.
PAD
I just have to say, I loved seeing Lee in the “Peace, Love, Linux” t-shirt. Nice touch. Your idea or the artist’s?
I manage a comic shop in Canada and would just like to share the fact that FALLEN ANGEL has gained new readers with every issue since #4 was released. It’s a slow climb, but an easy sell once the customer has given the book a chance. It’s so tough to make a new book fly these days with so much Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men etc clogging up shelf space, but when a comic is this engrossing, this GOOD, it makes it easier for me to get behind it as a salesperson.
I plan to make the most of the trade paperback when it is released. Too bad DC hasn’t provided a poster or some sort of promotional dealie for me to work with. I want this book to last.
By the way, almost every single Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan I have in the store has started reading Fallen Angel—just a tip for any retailers reading out there…
c.
Never, *never* underestimate the signal-to-noise ratio that hands like a shroud over any book that doesn’t get the full court press. DC did nothing to push the return of Kara in “Supergirl” and it took us six months to bring the sales up forty places in the Diamond ranking. They bang the drums for three months on Batman/Superman #8 with the return of Kara and it debuts at #1.
Ah, yes…well. Facts. Inconvenient things…
Perhaps I’m getting a bit disappointed with readership as a whole–what they say they want is not what they buy. When you point out examples of what they say they want in a book, they either shut up or ignore you….
Finally got a chance to pick this issue up. I’ve said something like this before, but THIS was my favorite issue!
As stated before I think we really get somethings cleard up and we really begin to see who some of these people really are.
Dolf really shines in this issue. I know the rumor out there is that Dolf is in fact Hitler. I think his views on good/evil and power/weakness really seem to fit with what I think Hitler might have thought at one time.
“You know, I tried several different ways to have him express a reason. He didn’t like the service …”
Just as well you didn’t, as people would probably have pounced on a comparison with KINGDOM COME where Vandal Savage casually snaps the neck of one of Luthor’s aides because she one sugar instead of two in his coffee. “Sorry, immortal habits die hard…”
Who’s the retailer? Because I’m perfectly capable of calling Diamond and asking if they really “failed to send” them, or if the retailer just didn’t bother to order it.
PAD
PAD,
I don’t blame you for wanting to check up on their ordering, after all I know you largely blame the retailers for your books not selling(Even though I believe it to be a mixture of retailers not ordering, publishers not advertising and consumers not buying.), but DIAMOND frequently does not ship books to retailers that they DO order. Things have been much better recently, but our store for example has been shorted copies of Daredevil recently as well as Exiles and Uncanny X-Men. Sometimes we have to go to other stores to get replacements if Diamond doesn’t have any available.
We carried Fallen Angel for the first 6 issues and we only sold 1 copy of issue 1 to a customer. We even put the book in our featured section and I told people about it and yet no one bought it except myself and the owner. It is very difficult to get consumers to try certain books out. Just the nature of the beast I guess. Fortunately we have recently gotten a subscriber recently to try out issues #7-11 after reading the description in Previews for #10. We reordered #7-9 for him so that he could read the whole story. Hopefully he’ll stick with it. We’re ordering copies for the shelf again so we’ll see how it works out.
“Goddammit would it KILL you to use the front door?!”Classic line that had me busting a gut laughing.Came into the story late (issue 7 i think) but i love this title.The Chaos vs Order argument was interesting.Much like the lines from Jurassic Park when Goldblums’ character was discussing Chaos theory and the natural order of things.Like that fact that Mariah is in crisis because her life is in someone elses hands .More to the point that she actually wants to die.Immortality would suck in the long term wouldnt it.Thanks for the info about the two finger salute .Who new Spike was flipping people off the whole time?
I figured she was on her way in giving God the bird, not knowing anything about the two finger version (nice touch). It was obvious to me what she was saying. Plus, I figured she was exhausted (being tortured and all) and she was slowly expressing herself.
Does Mariah want to die? Or the opportunity to die? And if she gets her mortality back, will she just die or grow old and then die? Could be interesting if it gets to that point.
Well, in terms of pure wordage, “Fallen Angel” is as long or longer than my other works.
In any event, I don’t write it to be read. I write it to be reread.
PAD
Fair enough, but is it as long as your works 5 years ago, or ten years ago? I just settled in to reread the Death of Jean DeWolff, and each issue seems to take a lot longer to read. I’m not asking for quantity over quality, and I do like titles that I will return to over time to reread. However, I do feel that comics as a whole read a whole lot shorter, and yours are no exception.
The shop I frequent just received the issue this week. To echo what Rich said, Diamond seems to short my shop on one or two titles each week. It’s not so bad when it is a DC title, because they can be reordered. It really hurts when it is a Marvel title lately because if Diamond doesn’t have any copies left, the shop owner has to try to track them down from other sources.
I know in my case it was not the store failing to order the title because it has been on my pull list since Issue #1 and the owner has not failed to get it for me yet.
Anyway, I enjoyed the issue and am looking forward to see how this arc resolves. I am caught up in the story and this continues to be one of my favorite books.
Okay, so you specified the two-finger salute, and it was drawn that way.
Will you now please explain why the dialog in an earlier issue referred to Dolph using a Walther P38 and what he was holding was a Luger P08?
And whose idea was the “Aston Martin” joke in Asia’s crypt?
And it’s nice to see that I-10 runs through Bete Noire. Always did like coming into town on I10 when i visited the place…
“Will you now please explain why the dialog in an earlier issue referred to Dolph using a Walther P38 and what he was holding was a Luger P08?”
Do I *look* like the artist? I specified in dialogue what he was supposed to be holding. I determined what was appropriate by doing a google search as to popular guns with the German SS. If the artist turned around and drew the wrong gun, there’s not a lot I can do about it.
“And whose idea was the “Aston Martin” joke in Asia’s crypt?”
Dave’s.
PAD
The esteemed Peter David explained the use of the wrong gun this way:
“Do I *look* like the artist? I specified in dialogue what he was supposed to be holding. I determined what was appropriate by doing a google search as to popular guns with the German SS. If the artist turned around and drew the wrong gun, there’s not a lot I can do about it.”
No one’s asking you to do an Alan Moore, and write a whole script page for a panel. However, some local artists I know have regular reference books for things like weapons – especially people who do military and science fiction material. If I could draw, and draw well, and worked with a really great writer who described a weapon…well, I’d consider it SOP to look up what the pistol looked like. Even if it was only on the Internet somewhere.
And in the artist’s defense…well, maybe he was hitting that ol’ deadline wall.