…that the allegations against Michael Jackson are true…
…can they prosecute the parents of the child for gross stupidity while they’re at it?
I mean, come on, seriously…show of hands now…how many people here, after Jackson talked about how he cuddles with kids in bed…would let their 12 year old stay overnight with the guy? Do these people have bricks for brains or what?
And no, I’m not saying that (if it’s true) Jackson should be excused because the victims brought it on themselves. I’m saying, geez, where the HÊLL were the parents if/when this happened?
PAD
• 
First, the topic of Michael Jackson. A very good editorial in Newsday today pointed out that the fascination with MJ is that he’s been a public self-destroying wreck for years now. He’s not just a celebrity who got caught doing something bad; he’s a man with freakish obsessions whose behavior has been questionable at best. (How many celebrities, no matter how rich, would pay a kid $20 million to make child molestation charges go away if the charges were groundless?) I think we want to see him convicted — and few here have expressed belief in his innocence or a desire to see him exonerated — partly to suffer the consequences of what he paid his way out of before, but mainly to have our beliefs in what he is proven. We don’t just want to think he’s a pedophile; we want it proven in court. It’s hardly noble, but it is fascinating.
As for the 3-year-olds & Hulk… The ratings system is supposedly in place to protect children. The PG-13 rating isn’t there to help adults decide what’s a good movie for them, but if it’s appropriate for their children. Filmratings.com has this comment on PG-13: “Parents should be especially careful about letting their younger children attend.” I know ratings aren’t a hard and fast rule — plenty of teens can handle R movies — but I would think the violence, noise, monstrous form of the Hulk itself would terrify a three year old. Some people have said their kids like the movie, and maybe it’s no more traumatic than Wile E. Coyote falling off a cliff or Bambi’s mother getting shot. We’ll have to agree to disagree.
The StarWolf pointed out that we grew up on violent fairy tales and poems. True, but I think a three year old would be more scared by the rampaging emerald monstrosity than by hearing some lines they probably barely understand.
And for Hulklady, who commented “I am that lady, and I’m going to have a firm talk with your manager about getting you fired, James Lynch.” Which retail store? Which location? Which day (or night)? And what exactly would the complaint be? I’m also curious why someone with the tag Hulklady would have to ask about the movie THE HULK. Heh.
JHL said So far, I’ve seen nothing that says they found anything Neverland. The arrest warrant could be based something else. Speaking of the arrest warrant, why did they not issue it right away instead of waiting till yesterday to issue it?
Of course he is innocent until proven guilty, in the legal sense anyway. However, I think it’s safe to assume they did find something, for two reasons:
1. I know Neverland Ranch is probably a big place, but even so they wouldn’t have spent 14+ hours searching if they weren’t collecting some evidence.
2. It’s the best explanation for why the arrest warrant was issued later. It would be the usual order to obtain a search warrant, execute it, and then file the arrest warrant on the basis of the evidence collected.
I just personally hope they take his kids away asap. They would certainly do the same to any regular joe accused of the same.
It’s an awful situation, but it does support my long-held theory that we need a criminal stupidity law. The parents here would be charged with felony criminal stupidity, with a misdemeanor stupidity charge as a lesser included offense.
A ratings system can only be a guideline, also because each child reacts differently.
Our daughter is 14 months old. The Hulk didn`t bother her at all but she was terrified of The Lion King.
Regarding the warrant of arrest as evidence for anything…
I know in the state where I live an arrest warrant can be issued if there is ‘probable cause’ that the individual committed a crime, or probable cause he will flee the state.
If the same applies here, it would be wrong to assume it was issued due to the former, when easily it could have been issued due to the latter.
And different judges issuing warrants might have different definitions of ‘probable cause.’ Some might consider the child’s testimony alone as probable cause.
And the reason they searched the ranch first prior to issuing the warrant for arrest is the element of surprise. If they issue the arrest warrant first, even though Jackson is out of town, there might be others at Neverland that could destroy evidence. I’m sure basic police procedure dictates they search first, and the order of events is really not an indication anything was found.
Adding an extra layer of creepiness to the whole story, some venues are speculating or out-and-out reporting that the child Jackson is accused of molesting is a young cancer survivor whom Jackson befriended. (And whom might have been mentioned in passing during the infamous Martin Bashir interview…)
So, if this is true, Jackson comes off as all the worse for victimizing a child who’s already been through a great deal. And though I don’t know what it’s like to have a child facing a terminal disease, I can imagine that the parents’ judgement may have been compromised during that time. Heck, maybe they though Jackson was just part of a generous make-a-dying-child’s-wish-come-true-by-meeting-a-celebrity type thing. Of course, even then, I could probably think of plenty of celebrities I’d rather see hang out with my (thankfully theoretical) ailing child that Mr. J…
Personally, I found it amusing that the AOL news coverage of Jackson today had an ad for “Cheap Air flights” right next to it. I thought, “Hmm, that could be just what he needs.” Then I actually read the article and saw that his private plane took off with no flight plan filed. My first thought was that the flight plan was likely “Second star on the right and straight on ’til morning.” My second thought was that perhaps he’s bunking in with Roman Polanski about now.
PAD
I was thinking last night–with all the aerial shots of the white private jet sitting out on the tarmac–about a white Ford Bronco slowly tooling down the freeway.
Oh, if only that plane had started rolling.
Well, I guess we all know what the TV schedule is going to be next year if Jackson surrenders:
CSI Neverland.
Random Michael Jackson thoughts:
Haven’t cared for a thing he’s done since “Ben,” and that was a love song to a *rat.* That’s a clue, people.
If I were a parent and somehow, someway, my kid got near Jackson and something happened, I’d like to think no amount of settlement money in the world could keep me from pinching his head off with my bare hands.
Then I think, with a settlement of $20 mil or so, it’d be easy to spend a couple hundred grand to get someone else to pinch his head off.
Chris
Where were the parents during all this? Driving their new I-35 Infiniti, and boning up on their Spanish for the move to Chile, where the age of consent is 13, I kid you not. (Well, I do kid, but not about the age of consent, which is a fact. Mr. Polanski, you should’ve made your moves down there.)
What’s the law in Chile say about drugging a teenager then raping her?
‘Cause that’s what “Mr. Polanski” allegedly did.
I’m hearing on the Radio that the big sticking point is not Jackson’s passport but rather the privacy of the arrest. Jackson aparently does not want the press there taking photos of him in cuffs, etc.
BTW I think it’s important to point out that this District Attorney “Thomas Sneddon” have been at war for quite some time. The lyrics to the Jackson’s song “D.S.” say he’s singing about someone named Dom Sheldon but if you listen to it, he’s clearly singing “Tom Sneddon”
The lyrics were somewhat insulting to “Dom” to say the least.
Guilty or Innocent, it’s safe to say the DA is out to get the guy.
Jeff
Another reason that the police and D.A. might be willing to negotiate with MJ about terms of arrest is that he was out of their juridiction, the last I heard. It could be easier to negotiate terms with him than it is to try to extradite him back to the relavant county before he could simply relocate himself.
Hey, doesn’t Michael have a new album out this week? Ought to be interesting to see how it sells in the light of this scandal.
James, I was kidding. I “signed” the note with “nekouken” just to be sure you knew it was a gag.
Well, he didn’t run…
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/11/20/jackson/index.html
Reading this thread, that catchy little tune from last night’s South Park kept running through my head:
Leave your kid with Michael Jackson/Dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb-dumb…
As for his being “gullible and naive:” This is a forty-five-year-old man. If he’s that “gullible and naive,” then he needs someone to take over his affairs for him.
Paul
This is all they showed today on the news. Yes he was arresred, booked, and posted bail. yadda, yadda, yadda 🙂
“James, I was kidding. I “signed” the note with “nekouken” just to be sure you knew it was a gag.”
In the word of the immortal Homer: “D’oh!” Hope I didn’t go off on you too much.
If only Jermaine Jackson said he was kidding when he denied that his brother Michael was eccentric…
My feelings are fine, James. I just worried that you didn’t get the carefully laid punchline I set for you.
As for Jermaine, well, one could make a case that Michael isn’t eccentric; whatever he is, it’s way beyond eccentric. I seem to recall a song he did in the ’90s(Jermaine) that made news (otherwise I know I never would have heard it; I didn’t even know he was still recording at that point) because some of the lyrics were percieved as critical of his brother. Right around the time of the interview where he explained his de-pigmenting skin, Jermaine put out some song with lyrics like, “Once you were made – You changed your shade – Was your color wrong?” or some-such. Seems critical to me.
“2. It’s the best explanation for why the arrest warrant was issued later. It would be the usual order to obtain a search warrant, execute it, and then file the arrest warrant on the basis of the evidence collected.”
This may be the normal procedure, but if my memory serves me well, Something was said along the lines of, “We would have issued the arrest warrant sooner, but we had to deal with the people that come into Santa Barbara for Halloween.”
Maybe I’m wrong, but I could swear I read that on Yahoo or CNN’s site Tuesday night. That is a pretty flimsy excuse for not issuing the arrest warrant sooner.
Here’s some other things to ponder.
1. After the settlement ten years ago, the boy AND his father REFUSED to cooperate with a criminal investigation.
2. If the boy’s father were a normal parent, he would have said to Michael Jackson, “You and your money can go to hëll. I’m going to take you down,” when Jackson settled out of court.
3. If Jackson is a pedophile, why haven’t other victims come forward in the time period between 1993 and the accusations made now? Pedophiles will continue to molest children even after years of prison. It’s part of their mental illness. Surely someone as famous as Jackson would be under close scrutiny by authorities in the past ten years. Yet, no other child came forward before now. I find this super strange.
“I think it’s important to point out that this District Attorney “Thomas Sneddon” have been at war for quite some time. The lyrics to the Jackson’s song “D.S.” say he’s singing about someone named Dom Sheldon but if you listen to it, he’s clearly singing “Tom Sneddon”
The lyrics were somewhat insulting to “Dom” to say the least.
Guilty or Innocent, it’s safe to say the DA is out to get the guy.”
I’m glad to see someone else pointed this out. Sneddon, who, in my opinion, looks like a love child of William Howard Taft and Theodore Roosevelt, seems to be on a witch hunt.
JHL
(quote) 3. If Jackson is a pedophile, why haven’t other victims come forward in the time period between 1993 and the accusations made now? Pedophiles will continue to molest children even after years of prison. It’s part of their mental illness. Surely someone as famous as Jackson would be under close scrutiny by authorities in the past ten years. Yet, no other child came forward before now. I find this super strange. (unquote)
Assuming (and that is yet unproven) Jacko is in the thrall of pedophilia perhaps, as in the rest of his life, he is an eecentric in that area as well.
Most illness and behavior can be graphed as a bell-shaped curve, and there is no reason to pre-suppose he falls into the accepted ‘norm’ for that debilitation, especially based on his demonstrable off-kilter characteristics in other social and civil interactions.
FWIW according to this morning’s news reports, the parents were/are under psychiatric care of some sort. And the family isn’t seeking monetary damages. (Maybe the two are related — you’d have to be insane to completely turn down monetary damages)
My question for PAD, since CBS is not airing his special, is it censorship just like their decision to not air the Reagan movie?
Ah, Don’t bother with my question, I was just being facetious. I know that the two are an apples and oranges comparison.
It came across alot more hateful than I intended, sorry about that.
it may have been facetious…but you’re right…it is censorship.
And there’s nothing wrong with editorial censorship. TV stations, newspapers, magazines daily make decisions on what is appropriate and not appropriate to include.
It’s when the media appears to be reacting to government pressure that alarms, bells, and whistles go off.
Further to the “where were the parents!” issue, the oft-nigh brilliant website http://www.thesmokinggun.com has posted the declaration of the 13-year-old plantiff, describing how he first met Jackson at a restauraunt that the child’s mother and stepfather freqeunted, and describing how the boy, with mother and half-sister, would make trips to Neverland ranch, etc.. At an understatement, it’s pretty depressing reading, as the boy comes to describe the abuse he alleges.
And, elsewhere on the site, they’ve noted that the father was arreseted last year “on a variety of child-abuse charges” and, as noted in their divorce petition, had threatened his wife and children.
It doesn’t appear that we’ve got a bunch of parent-of-the-year candidates in this story…
Negotiations are often over things like bail, media access, security, etc.
Both Steven Clubb and Jeff bring up a point I hadn’t considered, and I’m glad they did. In retrospect, security was pretty important to take into consideration, as there’s probably quite a few crazies out there who’d try to take potshots at Jacko.
From what I’d heard, his lawyers were also attempting to negotiate an acceptable amount to set bail at, and whether or not Jackson would need to surrender his passport (the claim was Jacko wasn’t a flight risk… riiiiiiight). Those two points were really the focus of my ire. It ticks me off that a rich and powerful guy like Jackson has rich and powerful lawyers who attempt to negotiate things which in my mind are non-negotiable– like the surrendering of Jacko’s passport or the moot issue of bail. I mean, what price could Micheal Jackson not afford? Yes, he shouldn’t be gouged in the bail department just because he’s got zillions of dollars, but what’s the difference between setting bail at one or two million for a guy that rich? I don’t think that having a really good lawyer or gobs of money should entitle someone to above-the-law style preferential treatment. Nobody negotiates with Joe Pusher or Quincy C. Catburglar on the terms of their arrests (nor should they), so why does Jackson get to negotiate such terms?
It’s all rhetorical now; we’ve all seen lots of celebs get preferential legal treatment, and I’m sure we’ll see it again. I guess the blatantcy of it just struck a really tender nerve.
tOjb
Oh, and Jeff… I’m right there with you on the tax cut bill. Ever notice how since the early 90s the media has tried to turn every mediocre eye-candy story into “OJ2”?
Not that it wouldn’t be surreal to watch Micheal wave to fans from the passenger seat of a slow-moving white Bronco. Especially if the Bronco was driven by Tito.
“Micheal– what rhymes with ‘Elephant Man’?”
tOjb
From what I’d heard, his lawyers were also attempting to negotiate an acceptable amount to set bail at, and whether or not Jackson would need to surrender his passport (the claim was Jacko wasn’t a flight risk… riiiiiiight). Those two points were really the focus of my ire. It ticks me off that a rich and powerful guy like Jackson has rich and powerful lawyers who attempt to negotiate things which in my mind are non-negotiable– like the surrendering of Jacko’s passport or the moot issue of bail.
Those things would be a point of contention in any bail hearing. One of the purposes of negotiating bail ahead of time is to minimize the amount of time that Michael Jackson (or any defendant) would spend in Court prior to the Criminal Trial. If the Prosecuting and Defense attornies are in agreement over the terms of the bail, then the judge can rubber-stamp the agreement… or impose his own. Ultimately, the judge is the final authority on this matter.
And that’s not just for MJ’s benefit. The longer MJ is there, the larger the crowds the Courthouse has to deal with, and that creates problems for the state. Getting Jackson in and out as quickly as possible is in everyone’s best interest. At this point of the legal process, they’re not trying to detain the defendant any longer than necessary.
“Micheal– what rhymes with ‘Elephant Man’?”
Since my name is Michael — which his how Jackson spells his, too — I’ll field this one for him. He’s busy.
Well, I can’t, Dan.
Belle, the Runts fan.
Sell a bundt pan (as in Bundt cake).
Well done rump ham.
Tell the Cubs fan, “Ya better run, man.”
Mr. David, your comment about Michael Jackson bunking with Roman Polanski doesn’t work for one reason. Polanski, regardless of his predilections, is a director with a body of work that people have appreciated for years, and has mostly ignored his press. Jackson is a once-famous singer whose songs were popular for a few years, but has made no significant music for over a decade – and his fame is propped up by his staging events for the press.
Somehow, I think their incompatabilities would make for a genuine “Odd Couple” living situation. Polanski as Felix, and Jackson as Oscar.
It’s amazing to me that the media frenzy this has generated has gotten to the point where it has far eclipsed coverage of more important topics. It shows just how far our society’s sense of priorities has been corrupted.
Here’s a thought: If the energy and resources being put into the MJ “investigation” by all the media were directed at, say….finding Osama Bin Laden, we just might FIND that guy, a goal much more desirable than any outcome pro or con from this banality.
(quote) Here’s a thought: If the energy and resources being put into the MJ “investigation” by all the media were directed at, say….finding Osama Bin Laden, we just might FIND that guy, a goal much more desirable than any outcome pro or con from this banality. (unquote)
It may (and certainly should be) not so, but, with the track record Karl Rove has re: managing campaigns, I wouldn’t totally discount that we know just about precisley where in the hills of Pakistan Bin Laden is, and Rove has pressured those in charge to wait for a politically propitious moment, such as just prior to the election, to announce his capture or demise.
Hope it ain’t so, but my naturally cynical nature gnaws.
Well, you do bring up some obvious questions. Seems to me with the political will and military force, Bin Laden should be easily found and captured. But I digress….
Back to the MJ thing: It was just reported that Michael raised quite the stink during his booking. Yep. Turns out he farted three times and some reporter actually counted them…..and the absurdity of it all just goes on and on and on…..
I think we all know why the parents allowed it, sad, but true:
MONEY SONG
I’ve got ninety thousand pounds in my pyjamas.
I’ve got forty thousand French francs in my fridge.
I’ve got lots of lovely lire.
Now the Deutschmark’s getting dearer,
And my dollar bills would buy the Brooklyn Bridge.
There is nothing quite as wonderful as money.
There is nothing quite as beautiful as cash.
Some people say it’s folly,
But I’d rather have the lolly.
With money you can make a splash.
There is nothing quite as wonderful as money (Money, money, money, money)
There is nothing like a newly minted pound ( Money, money, money, money)
Everyone must hanker
For the butchness of a banker.
It’s accountancy that makes the world go ’round (‘Round, ’round, ’round)
You can keep your Marxist ways,
For it’s only just a phase,
For it’s money, money, money makes the world go ’round.
(Money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, moneeeeey!)
Music: John Gould
Lyrics: Eric Idle & John Gould
My theory about Jackson is that he’s convinced himself he’s not ‘really’ doing anything bad if he does one thing or another. For instance, if he only looks, or if he asks permission before touching, or this, or this, or this… Not excusing or justifying, this is a seriously disturbed man who’s probably done a lot of damage, but he might actually believe he’s done nothing wrong.
Creepy subtext of his recent long, long video with the haunted house: An outraged authority figure (Played by Jackson himself in heavy makeup) storms a castle where Jackson’s character has been entertaining children. Early on, as the trouble’s brewing, one kid snaps at another, “I told you not to tell!”
Finally, the parents. If Jackson is a pedophile, he’s probably also pretty slick at reading parents and manipulating them into thinking nothing’s wrong. Granted, this is a stretch when we consider this is a man who’s voluntarily turned himself into Doctor Phibes, but if they’re willing to take their kids to Neverland in the first place, he probably has a tiny window of trust he can work with.
Further to the Osama Bin Laden digression earlier on, EVERYONE should visit the following link and spread the word. It’s a REAL eye-opener! The link is: http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/index.html
And now back to Michael Jackson…..sigh…..
He’s innocent and has an alibi 🙂
On the night in question he was at Buckingham Palace, getting breakfast for Prince Charles.
nekouken: Since my name is Michael — which his how Jackson spells his, too…
Dammit, that’s the second time I’ve misspelled a name in this thread (earlier, I spelled ‘Polanski’ with a ‘u’). I suck; I’ve never, ever been able to spell ‘Michael’ right. Thanks for catching that, nekouken.
tOjb
I think its just sad the way some are saying its for the money and its all a big conspiracy because he’s famous. What about this child who has gone through hëll and gets molested by someone he looked up to. The only reason a child would be around that scary looking thing is if they really thought of him as a hero. Just think how devastating that is to a child. Who knows how many kids out there he has molested. It’s tough to get grown women to admit they have been raped, imagine what a small child goes through when their hero is molesting them. Do you really think they are going to tell? Get real people. As for the first case, a huge amount of people settle these sort of cases out of court for one reason, the emotional impact it has on the victum. Some parents don’t want to put their child through that sort of emotional strain. If any average Joe were to dangle his child out a window and be accused of molestation, they would have taken their kids. I think it would actually be the best thing for Jacko’s kids. Then they could actually breathe fresh air without the restrictions of a plastic mask.
Oh, and I do think the kids parents are extremely stupid. What sane person would leave a kid with MJ?!? Even if they could prosecute someone for stupidity, I don’t think it would hold since the first charge didn’t hold.
I’M A TILL DEATH DO US PART FAN AND FÙÇK EVERYONE WHO HAS NEGATIVE OPINIONS. HE DIDN’T DO IT.MICHEAL I LOVE U.
i just say, hes as gay as a stud from san fran ciso yeah he got kids so he can molest them when they get jitboffenators big enough for him to suck on, he had kids to sheild the fact he is gay , and the females who slept with him will tell you hes no animal in bed in fact they would rather sleep with a dog who can move his ášš like a jack hammer then sleep with him, im sure while hes making love or jërkìņg øff his private parts or putting somthing up his butt think its a 12 year old jiffboffenator. im sure he thinking about it, the guy says its ok to fondle and cudle with boys in bed.. i think they should throw the book at him, hes a dumbmass for doing this he should have protected his money better i hope they nail his stupid ášš and mike my horses ášš looks better then your nose buddy you dámņ homo
id kill you if you ever touched my kids, i wouldnt let them sl;eep over without my being their even then i would be scared cause i gotta sleep to what if he did me in the butt while i slept what if he said he gave me a bj cause he thought i was under age.? or he though i was he flavor of the week and my big ole slong was a strap on and he couldnt keep his hands and mouth off it.?
he did it
i hope all you afro wearin crack smokers see this and learn from it.
Wow… I don’t know whether to laugh or cry after that last one.
I know I’ll regret this, but just what is a ‘jiffboffenator?’ And please, if there’s a less graphic route to take when explaining, please do so.
tOjb