So there’s the sportscasters during the ill-fated (for Chicago) Cubs/Marlins game, stating repeatedly that they hoped the fans in the stands who got in the way of a catchable foul ball would not be ill-treated by Cubs fans the next day. Meanwhile, just to make sure that everyone in Chicago can ID these guys on sight, they keep replaying the sequence at various angles with assorted degrees of close-ups.
In case you weren’t watching, the caught fly ball would have left the Marlins with two outs. Instead, because a fan practically knocked the ball out of the fielder’s mitt (the fielder was visible on camera repeatedly saying the “F” word afterwards) the batter had the opportunity to ignite a rally that sent the Marlin to an eight-run eighth inning, leaving the Cubs and their fans shellshocked. Apparently two fans, a youngster and a guy in his late teens or early 20s, were responsible for grabbing at the ball instead of getting out of the way. Technically it wasn’t fan interference since the fielder had to reach over the stands to get at it. But Cubs fans likely won’t see it that way.
Perhaps the fans involved would be well-advised to get out of town, at least until game 7 is over. If the Cubs win, it’ll be an unimportant footnote. If the Cubs lose, well…they’ll probably get a heroes welcome in Florida.
Oh…Red Sox lost. I’m not sure which is less inspiring for their prospects: That they’ve only beaten one Yankees pitcher this series, or that they’d have to take two in Yankee Stadium. Still, the Sox have done well with their back against the wall lately, so we’ll see. The game of choice for anyone with true love for baseball is Sox/Cubs. If it’s Cubs/Yankees, at least it’ll be the first Cubs series appearance since 1945, and their first chance at a win in close to a century. If it’s Yankees/Marlins, the only ones who’ll give a dámņ are Yankees and Marlins fans, and World series ratings will likely suck.
PAD
• 
And if it’s Sox/Marlins, well, you just *know* the dámņëd Fish will win their second World Series in eleven years of existance by beating the Giants (1954), Cubs (1908), and Red Sox (1918).
I figure in that case, you get folk from Stanford Linear Accelerator, Fermilab (Chicago suburb), and MIT and just nuke Florida on general principles. 🙂
With regards to the ratings if a Marlins/Yankees World Series occurs, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Actually, I think I did say that to myself late last week. Who’s gonna want the Phish against the “Evil Empire?” I love baseball and I doubt even I’d watch the series (which is a lie. I know I’ll watch it regardless of who’s playing).
As far as that Cubs fan goes, I feel bad for him. The ball was foul. Alou had to go into the stands to attempt a catch. The way I see it, it’s the fan’s ball, out of the field of play. Yeah, maybe he should have backed away from it, but really, in a situtation like that, with an LCS ball coming right at you, what would you do?
It’s a natural reaction, a reflex. I don’t know if anyone has been at a ballpark when a foul ball is flying towards you, but trust me, you’re not thinking about letting a player try to catch the ball. You’re not thinking about how many outs there are or if what you’re doing is fan interference. You’re thinking about how to catch the ball without dropping your beer. Every single fan in Wrigley tonight would have done the exact same thing as this fan did.
And remember, this is baseball, where you have many, many opportunities to win (or lose) a game. The game didn’t turn on that one play. Like Harold Reynolds and Bobby Valentine were talking about on Baseball Tonight a little bit ago, there’s a passed ball and an error on the shortstop that had a big part to do with the Marlins eight runs. You can’t blame the fan.
Personally, I blame Dusty Baker. Leaving Prior in to pitch in a situation like that. As soon as Prior allows that first run in the 8th, Baker should have yanked him. Prior was well over a hundred pitches and obviously had lost command of his breaking ball. There was no reason to have left him in for so long. At the very least, someone should have visited the mound to talk to him, slow the game down a bit. But no, no one talked to Prior. They left him in there to serve up hittable pitch after hittable pitch until suddenly the game is tied and momentum is shifted to the visitors.
It’s all on Baker’s head, not that poor fan. The Cubs lost this game tonight all by themselves. They didn’t need help from some guy in the stands.
Okay i admit im a much MUCH bigger hockey fan then baseball fan, but all sports have had things like happen where there is either some unbelievable un-fair circumstance, or an unbelievably unfair referee decision (anyone watch monday night football 2 weeks ago?)
The fact is: yes something unfair happened, but the cubs had plenty of chances to put the game away earlier, and even after…
It is a team game and ultimately unless god comes down and says “Marlins win; go home” you should always look in the mirror first before blaming a loss on the happenstance of fate.
I was at the Cubs game tonight and I have never seen quite this much stupidity. My wife and I are blaming it on the “Zimmer Rays” that are still emitted by the walls of the Cubs manager’s office.
For more ticked-off commentary, see:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/billroper/12546.html#cutid1
If you go to MSN.com and click on the story about the game it has the guys picture snatching the ball. I don’t envy that guy! 🙂
The I-95 World Series. Fans can travel by bus and make it from Florida to NYC in 24 hours.
Hurricane Heeran
As can be imagined, the various Chicago TV News programs have been covering this with zeal. To me, it just looked like the fan was only looking to the oncoming ball and not anything else. The news said that fan and his companion were escorted out of the stadium in the 8th inning for their own safety (and one fan who sat behind these two goobers commented that the kid kind of looked like a goat!).
I don’t know if anyone has been at a ballpark when a foul ball is flying towards you, but trust me, you’re not thinking about letting a player try to catch the ball.
Actually, I have. As far as I was concerned, that ball belonged to any other person in my immediate vicinity, so long as neither they or it killed me! Let’s just call it a “little league flashback”, a la Les Nessman. 😉 My seat was only a few rows behind the 1st base dugout, and way out of play, but trust me, if there were any possiblity a player could’ve made that catch, it was all his. ^.^;
King Kauffman of Salon.com would disagree with your assessment of the non-fan interference call, Peter:
Watching the play, I thought Alou had reached into the stands and the umpire had made the right call. But the more times I watched the replay, the more I became convinced, and I remain convinced, that the fan, not Alou, reached across the barrier. Next time you see that replay, and you’ll see it hundreds more times, watch Alou’s glove hand, his left, in relation to the rest of his body. It looks to me like Alou’s glove is directly above his right shoulder, which obviously is on his side of the fence.
In the Associated Press photo that I’m guessing will become the definitive image of this play, look at the fan: He’s standing with his legs against the wall, his arms are extended straight out toward the field, and the ball is hitting his hands. The wall is only about six inches wide. Unless it’s an extreme trick of perspective, his hands have to be over the field.
If nothing else, we’ve found our first solid candidate for this decade’s Jeffrey Maier award.
-Dave O’Connell
No, I have to agree with Dave Golbitz. The Cubs lost because Dusty Baker kept Prior in there too long. Good lord, it was painfully obvious he was out of gas, yet Baker didn’t even bother to warm someone up until the damage was done.
JSM
Well, before anyone else decides to judge, take a look at this picture: http://i.cnn.net/si/2003/baseball/mlb/specials/postseason/2003/10/14/marlins.cubs.game6.ap/t1_alou_fan_ap.jpg
Looks to me he was leaning over the wall and interferred….
And whether or not Baker left Prior in too long or whether Gonzalez makes that play at short doesn’t matter. The fact is it should have been 1 on with 2 outs by then, not 2 on with 1 out and the tying run 1 swing of the bat away. Period. Once again, an umpire’s “judgment call” goes against the Cubs and gives the other team hope. This time, it costs the Cubs.
By the way, after watching some of the Sox/Yankees game, I’ve come the conclusion that I really hate Jeter. The guy’s a pompous jerk. One day some over zealous Boston fan is going to try to hurt him.
Apparently two fans, a youngster and a guy in his late teens or early 20s, were responsible for grabbing at the ball instead of getting out of the way. Technically it wasn’t fan interference since the fielder had to reach over the stands to get at it. But Cubs fans likely won’t see it that way.
Instead of grabbing a foul ball over the railing, he should’ve gone to Spankee stadium and snatched a fair ball right out of the glove of the outfielder while it was still in field. That way, instead of his life being threatened, he would’ve gotten a parade with the mayor of NYC and a spot on Letterman.
Did I mention that I hate the Spankees?
The big difference with the Jeffrey Maier situation is that Jeffrey Maier was a Yankees fan and they were playing in Yankee Stadium. So it was a fan helping the Yankees win, while here it was a Cubs fan helping the Cubs lose.
If there is any definition of a baseball curse, that 8th inning is it.
Everything completely fell apart after that point.
I also hate Jeter and am completely sick of his advertisement with Steinbrenner. Instead of simply muting the TV, I now have to change the channel when that comes on.
Neil
Perhaps the fans involved would be well-advised to get out of town, at least until game 7 is over. If the Cubs win, it’ll be an unimportant footnote. If the Cubs lose, well…they’ll probably get a heroes welcome in Florida.
I don’t think there are enough Marlins fans in Florida to protect them from all the retired former Chicagoans down there. Someplace more exotic and remote is probably in order. I hear Kuala Lumpur is lovely this time of year.
Ah…..Frag.
The only thing that makes yesterday’s Sox loss palatable is the fact that misery loves company, as the Cubs’ essential nature asserted itself, as well…..
Yeah, yeah: I still believe, and all that. Never say die. Keep the fat lady off stage. Cowboy–gulp–up.
But, fellas? Those wooden things in your hands when you’re staring at the pitcher and that little white ball comes at you? Those are bats. Swing them at the little white ball. Doesn’t have to be out of the park every time–just good enough to get some of you on those little white bags spaced around the field out there.
Okay–onward to Games 6 and 7 and beyond….
The big difference with the Jeffrey Maier situation is that Jeffrey Maier was a Yankees fan and they were playing in Yankee Stadium.
No, the difference is that Jeffrey Maier is a scumbag who was rewarded for cheating even though people who commit blatant fan interference are supposed to be expelled from the stadium as stated in Cheating Bášŧárdš Stadium policy.
I live in Chicago and I hate to say it but if the Cubs can’t overcome a little bad luck with the guy in the stands and they can’t win one game out of the last three in the series with the last two at home, they obviously don’t deserve to go to the World Series. And if they plan to go into the game tonight blaming a fan for their loss last night when they gave up 8 RUN IN ONE INNING rather than taking responsibility and learning from the mistakes they themselves made then they are probably going to lose again tonight if that’s all it takes to shake their confidence and get them to choke.
Well as a Yankees fan living in South Florida, I’d love a Yanks-Marlins, so that my team will win either way. Given the amount of ex-New Yorkers down here, I don’t know which team would have more support. I guess all the Mets fans will go for the Marlins 🙂
The atmosphere should still be friendly then that at the Dolphins-Jets games though.
As for the “incident,” With the Yanks it was a case of a probable out turned into a home run. Here it was a POSSIBLE out turned into a foul. Which was followed by a ball, walking the player, and then soon after by an error by the shortstop which prevented another out.
And the amazing thing was that none of those 8 runs came from a home run.
On the other hand, that guy has a ball that will be worth a lot of money some day.
That was the stupidest call I have seen all year. Probably one of the stupidest I have seen in my life.
Maybe they should’ve taken that ump to get an eye exam after the call.
How could they NOT call that fan interference?
Or am I the only person who sees that the FAN is the one reaching over the railing, that Alou would have to be Michael Jordan to get that high to reach into the crowd at that part of the wall?
I guess so.
Why shouldn’t we blame that fan? It changed the entire game.
Man on 2nd with two outs is far different than men on 1st and 3rd with 1 out, and that’s all there is to it.
(sarcasm) Of course, we shouldn’t blame the fan, (/sarcasm) but the media will go on about that stupid goat curse till they are blue in the face.
Leaves one to wonder why so many in the media have such a fascination with it.
I wonder how many are going to cuddle up with a particular barnyard animal if the Cubs lose tonight.
Everybody talks about how wonderful it is to have the fans that close to the game.
But nobody talks about the fact the fans can be close to the game in every other sport but not being able to physically affect the game.
That stupid incident with the Yankees a few years back; they treated that kid like royalty for SCREWING UP. It’s a load of crap.
there’s a passed ball
Which wouldn’t have happened at all had the proper call been made on the play.
and an error on the shortstop
Which may not have happened because with two outs, even had Rodriguez still got the hit to score Pierre, the dynamics of the upcoming at-bats would have changed.
You can’t blame the fan.
We can, and, rightfully so, we will.
On the other hand, that guy has a ball that will be worth a lot of money some day.
Actually, I don’t believe that SFI* got the ball.
*Stupid #$@%!*^ Idiot
Two words: Justifiable homicide.
Two words: Justifiable homicide.
Two words: Justifiable homicide.
That’s six words, Justin, and none of them warranted, however stupid the guy’s actions were. 🙂
Displaying my ignorance:
Who is Jeffrey Maier and what’s his claim to infamy?
Who is Jeffrey Maier and what’s his claim to infamy?
A few years back, 1996 iirc, Maier was the 12 year old kid who reached over the fence during the ALCS between the Yankees and Orioles, on a Jeter fly ball.
The kid reached out onto the field with his glove, the ball bounced off it (when the outfielder was there to make the play), and it bounced into the seats behind him.
The ump blew the call and no other ump overturned it.
The Yankees won the game, and went on to win the series.
The kid was proclaimed a hero by the Yankee faithful.
Disgusting to say the least.
The proper call should’ve been fan interference (ie, an out) and the kid ejected from the game.
Note how the same failure of proper application of the rule occured last night.
…calm the hëll down. Just a game, dude.
The funniest thing I heard about the incident this morning was from a St. Louis DJ who is a huge Cubs fan. He was at the game last night, a few rows back of the incident, and said that while checking his email this morning he came across a note that read:
JC–In my view the umpires made the correct call.
Don Denkinger
And if you don’t know why that name is infamous to Cardinals fans, think 1985 World Series. 🙂
JSM
Well, said fan is officially toast. The Smoking Gun has put up his name and background:
OCTOBER 15–Meet Steve Bartman. He’s the poor 26-year-old Chicago Cubs fan who last night got his hands on that foul ball headed for outfielder Moises Alou’s mitt. Bartman, who attended the University of Notre Dame, works for a Chicago-area consulting firm and serves as coach for a local youth baseball program. We wanted to speak with Bartman about last night’s incident, but he did not return messages left on his office voicemail. And when we dialed Bartman up at his apartment–about three miles from Wrigley Field–we got a recorded message saying that his number had been disconnected. Which is probably not a bad idea.
Why is everybody talking about the foul ball, fan interference, whatever?
The bottom line is the Marlins didn’t score from a ball that was foul instead of caught. The Marlins scored against pitching that suddenly became piss poor. The Cubs’ pitching strategy went to hëll and they paid for it. It’s cause and effect.
disclaimer: I’m a Yankees fan so I’m not partial to either team.
Here’s the video of the fan being escorted from his seat. Fair warning, there are a few “bleeps
in a mere 46 second video: rtsp://a1775.v8153d.c8153.g.vr.akamaistream.net/ondemand/7/1775/8153/001/real.trb.com/chinews/realvideo/2003-10/9814457.rm
The Cubs’ pitching strategy went to hëll and they paid for it. It’s cause and effect.
So, you’re saying that cause and effect exists, yet the bad call on the interference wasn’t a cause that had an effect upon Prior’s pitching?
I would say that you’re not making much sense.
The kid was proclaimed a hero by the Yankee faithful.
Which is the most disgusting thing about the whole incident. The entire city of New York treated this snotball as a hero. Not only did they cheer him, but they put him on national TV to rub it in the noses of the rest of the country that they won a game by fan interference.
Anyone who wants to know why the rest of America despises the Spankees, just reference that incident.
Full disclosure: I am an Orioles fan so yes, I did take it personally.
Off-topic, but Captain Marvel #15 is out this week. . . Cinescape has a write up of it: http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Comics&action=page&obj_id=39909
Chris
As I said about 18 years ago after a certain World Series game where a questionable call led to the Cardinals’ demise:
Championship teams overcome the flukes that go against them.
It was obvious Prior was struggling, yet Baker didn’t even have anyone warming up in the bullpen. Which I suspect says more about his faith in the Cubs’ relief corps than it does his managerial acumen.
Either way, one bad break didn’t cause the Cubbies to choke. They did it to themselves.
JSM
“On the other hand, that guy has a ball that will be worth a lot of money some day.”
According to an article on ESPN.com, he wasn’t allowed to keep the ball. So, all that effort fer nothin’.
As a Cubs fan, I was pìššëd when it happened, but this morning I realized it was just one of those things that happens and 99% of people in the same situation would have done the same thing without thinking about it. That isn’t to say the guy doesn’t feel like a moron today, I’m sure.:)
Yes, it had an effect on the outcome of the game and having something weird like that can become a momentum killer (players from both teams have said the energy in the park sort of died right after that) but in the end the Cubs lost the game, not an overeager fan. In all the interviews I’ve read today, Prior has been laying the blame on himself for his pitching in that inning. He’s not pointing figures at the fan, or Gonzalez’s error.
A side note, it wasn’t that the fan wasn’t able to keep the ball, he never actually caught it. It bounced off his hands and back into the stands behind him.
Oh, look, Angel Hernandez, home plate umpire for game 6 of the Sox/Yankees, pathetically missed a call.
He called Ortiz on a foul tip strikeout when Ortiz’s check swing (which may have been strike three anyways) was nowhere near the ball.
Makes you wonder how these guys miss such calls when they’ve been doing this for years and years. 🙂
Ok, the goat did his work. Now the Bambino has to do his thing tommorow 🙂
Seriously though, to the Chicago fans out there, great series, and frankly I’m more surprised that you lost than you are.
Angel Hernandez was the ump in the Cubs/Rockies game at Wrigley where he egregiously blew a call at home, calling out a Cubs runner (who was very safe, save for the bad call) from behind the catcher who was trying to apply the tag. Everyone on the 3rd base side of the field (myself included) had a better view of the play than Hernandez.
Later, Steve McMichael got ejected from the park after he got up to sing “Take Me Out To the Ball Game” during the seventh inning stretch and said, “Don’t worry. I’ll have some speaks with that umpire after the game.”
It was a close game down to the end and I leaned over to Gretchen and said, “I hope there’s not another close call at the plate that goes against the Cubs, or the fans will stomp this park into rubble.”
And then — in one of the more interesting botched rundowns I’d seen in a while — Hernandez called the Cubs runner safe at the plate with the winning run and got the heck off the field in a hurry.
The interesting thing was that I wasn’t sure the runner was safe. (But when I saw the replays at home, I found that the second call was correct.)
Umpires are going to blow calls. Blowing them by being out of position to make the call is bad.
*chuckle* I remember watching that game, Bill.
The amazing thing is how badly calls can be blown even when they have the angle.
Wasn’t Hernandez also the first one on the call for the BoSox homer that the fan tried to reach out and get on the right field foul pole? The one that was overturned.
I don’t know what everyone is so Pi**ed about if you were the one that was sitting there you would have done the same thing that he did and then you would be the one that is being outcasted…….SO WHAT he messed up a play, not that it would have mattered any way it would have made the second out not the 3rd so it wouldn’t have won them the game. Who’s to say that they would have won the game with out the play getting messed up? Everyone needs to stop and think what if they would have been sitting in that seat what would they have done???? You can say what you want but you know as well as everyone else you would have done the same thing he did. So stop ragging him get off his back and get on with your life because if this is all you have to think about or do in life then you have no life, so let everyone get on with theirs.
I was with Jeffery Maier on the day he caught the ball (we took him to the game). Jeff was a 13 year old kid who just wanted a souvenir, and its absolutely irresponsible to call a CHILD a scumbag. Unless you want me to call your kids scumbags too.