Mention has been bandied about (most lately, over in the Pulse on Comicon.con) over a notion involving the permanent return of Captain Mar-Vell. No hoax, no dream, no imaginary tale. The Guy, back from the dead.
The answer is, yeah, we considered it. We consider a lot of possibilities. In this case, I have a story line I’d been building towards involving a sort of massive cosmic intervention to deal with Marv’s current mental state (as some fans have quite correctly observed, there’s only so long Marv can go on doing this stuff before others start trying to rein him in). We discussed it, and ultimately decided we wouldn’t bring Mar-Vell back from the dead for it. This all happened weeks ago. So the matter was already settled well before word started leaking out. We’re still doing the storyline (over issues #15 to 18) but Mar-Vell will not be a part of it.
Beginning, middle, end of rumor.
PAD
• 
Good Call
Mark B.
I’m glad you’re keeping Mar-vell dead, PAD, since some deaths need to be permanent. However, if you ever run low on inspiration, I’ve got a brilliant story idea that would let you bring back Jean DeWolf, Jim Wilson and that female killer chick Doc Samson watched get executed. Call me. We’ll talk.
I agree. I feel resurrecting him would get up the noses of anyone who enjoyed the Death of Captain Marvel TPB (I know I did).
I agree, you guys made the right call, and I’m sure it wasn’t easy since some have complained that Genis isn’t the the “real” Captain Marvel. Not an issue for me, but…
The Pulse people don’t seem to know where the rumor was first reported (they said some people emailed them telling them they’d read the rumor online, but no specifics). Any idea? Just curious to read where it originated.
Thanks for the info, PAD.
Here’s a question. Was it ever announced that CM would be a more-than-monthly comic? It seems like I’m picking it up every other week, but I don’t remember reading anything about the increased schedule…not that I’m complaining, mind you. I love having well-written comics (same with Ultimate Spidey) in my hands more than once a month.
Rob R.
Good call as well.
I need to admit that I always felt more was thought of Mar-Vell AFTER he died than he ever amounted to before.
I have the all original earth-2 and earlier Warlock stuff and Thanos stuff (and all of the original Captain Marvel stuff with the great original green costume and Carol Danvers) and it never really did anything for me. I liked Starlin’s CM stuff but it seemed to over-impress people because of the grand scale and scope. Please… nothing with “infinity” in the title either.
It is VERY AMAZING how those first few Marvel graphic novels (which I still have lurking about) had and have a HUGE impact on the Marvel Universe… New Mutants, Death of Captain Marvel, Anderson/Claremont’s “God Loves, Man Kills”. Minorly, they even rebooted Killraven (though the GN was the second appearance or so after the original). They even had PCR do a cool Elric… which can’t go wrong. Simonson’s Star Slammers (Joe Q. should give HIM Iron Man and see what happens).
Rob R. There are two issues of CM out this month, so there will only be about a 2 week gap inbetween issues 8, 9 and 10. After that, things go back to normal.
It is part of Marvel’s new 13 issues per year instead of having an Annual.
Anyway, thanks PAD for sorting out this rumour. I am glad that Mar-Vell is staying dead. He needs to be one of the “dead is dead” characters, and I happen to like Genis a lot better anyway.
Also, thanks for the little teaser about the upcoming arc! I’ve been waiting to see when someone would step in to deal with crazy Genis.
I think that “Crazy Marv” couldn’t be done any better than the first arc of the new series. In fact, I enjoyed that arc SO much that I wish it would have been its own stand-alone mini-series or graphic novel. Just think: Joe Q and Jemas could have gotten two, two, TWO “number ones” out of the deal!
Having said that…I prefer Marv’s red-and-blue duds. =)
You should resurrect Brain Boy. Now THERE was a comic.
Well the only thing I can say is…
At least it CM is going to last to 18 issues.
After reading the current issue, I just hope the book in the future has more Rick Jones and less Crazy Marv. The complete lack of humor is killing me…
Just curious, when did this Coven story happen? I don’t remember it…
I need to admit that I always felt more was thought of Mar-Vell AFTER he died than he ever amounted to before.
Actually, this is a proving ground, sort of, to another theory of mine. The best Hal Jordan stories were told after he died/specterized. Same with Barry Allen. Same, even to a point, but not as much because of Mike Grell, of Ollie (y’know the Longbow Hunters and Grell’s run on GA about redeemed everything)…
But of course, they’ve now brought all but Barry back.
Dead should be dead. If not, it’s cheap.
A la Rick:
“There. Three out of three people polled have come back from the dead.” Of course, that’s paraphrased. But it shows how rediculous it is…
Travis
Glad you’re planning to deal with the repercussions of crazy Marv. To be honest, I couldn’t figure out why Rick hadn’t gone directly to the Avengers or FF (i.e. Reed Richards) immediately after he got back on Earth to arrange for a nice cage for Genis, ala Bruce Banner’s early days of locking himself up at night. Btw, since I don’t think it’s been mentioned in the story, I’m assuming now that we’ve seen Rick on Earth that the bit on the recap page about Rick and Genis each having a 24 hour time limit on their stay on Earth (or in the Microverse depending on how you look at it) is valid. Because I just don’t see Genis hitting the bands together at this point.
I must say that Captian Marvel is one of the best series I have ever read. Love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyways I am glad that you aren’t bringing back Mar-vell and Dead characters should stay dead. YOu hear that Aunt May….
Anyways I just wanted to say that I also miss the humour lately. Later
I absolutely LOVE “Crazy Marv”.
This rendition of a “cosmically aware” being is FAR more plausable than ANY that we’ve seen before…with the possible exception of Mar-Vell!
Speaking of the Original (non-DC) Capt. Marvel, he needs to STAY DEAD.
(However, the occasional “visit” to the realm of the dead is ok.
Slightly more preferable to that is the “introduced” continuity of stories/events being included “in between” the stories/events that we know already.)
Peter David isn’t ALWAYS my cup-o-tea, but I have no fault with him 85% of the time.
ThanX, PAD for MANY an enjoyable read.
~P~
I think this whole Capt. Mar-vell rumor is nothing but a sly cover story to mask the return of Bucky in the pages of Captain Marvel! 😉
Forget about Mar-Vell.
Know who would be ideal for a “cosmic intervention”?
Marlo. Who else?
Agememnon is coming back?
By Bart:
I need to admit that I always felt more was thought of Mar-Vell AFTER he died than he ever amounted to before.
As in interesting side note, I’ve sometimes wondered if more was thought of the 2nd Flash Barry Allen after he died in the Crisis on Infinite Earths than before it, but I could be mistaken. The Flash was the first book I read from DC(it was issue #230 of volume 1, from Nov/Dec 1974, and may have been a birthday present for me from my family), and I for one really dug it when I was a kid. I also got to read Green Lantern for the first time there, as they were writing it as a backup story there at the time for 3 and a half years. In the case of our beloved Barry, it just wouldn’t do to have him return from the dead. As a ghost, maybe, but to life, no, since it would cheapen one of the most touching deaths in the DCU. His death was also a motivation for nephew Wally West to continue his legacy.
The new issue’s great, PAD. I’m glad to see that Ivan Reis’ art meshed well, and it took me a while to remember that it wasn’t ChrisCross doing the artwork. (Oh yeah, the story wasn’t bad either. It’ll be interesting to see if the “Coven” resolution matches that of the “Sturm & Drang” mini-arc. The Odin backstory really made the story for me.)
As for the reader who wondered when the Coven-related events happened, don’t go looking for it. You’ve as much chance of finding it as that X-Men/Micronauts crossover from a couple years back. 😉 Just chalk it up as another untold tale, along with Byrne’s Alpha Flight story about the Brass Bishop.
While it is a little disconcerting to see Mar-vell becoming more dislikable, at least it beats conventions of comic storytelling into the ground. If it keeps me off-guard and second-guessing, then so much the better.
Speaking of conventions & cliches, I actually found myself liking the latest Uncanny X-Men today, probably because of the dressing down Cyclops gave Nightcrawler. I liked the issue, till I realized that Nightcrawler with implanted memories is even less palatable than Wolverine with implanted memories. (Who’d make up a story about being a priest anyway? It’s like putting “pope” on your resume and hoping nobody checks your references.)
Finally, is it pronounced “Cov-en” or “Co-ven”? (Maybe I should rent “American Movie” this weekend.)
-DM
Speaking of RUMOURS…
I’ve heard that Marvel is “encouraging” the padding of their stories, that Geoff Johns was told to split a single issue’s plot into two issues. Basically, more issues a year, but less story.
I’m asking this here because, and don’t take this the wrong way, Peter, but both the current issue and the last two “Asgard” issues seemed overly-drawn out. The plots could definitely have been tightened up. Sure I love your dialogue, but pages of conversation work against the medium.
So, is this Marvel’s doing or your own?
(Again, no offense, I’m a longtime fan! :))
Speaking of RUMOURS…
I’ve heard that Marvel is “encouraging” the padding of their stories, that Geoff Johns was told to split a single issue’s plot into two issues. Basically, more issues a year, but less story.
I’ve heard that too, although I wouldn’t go that far when it comes to Grant Morrison’s treatment of the X-Men: he needlessly bloated that story in which he wrote a boring rehash of the events involving the Shi’ar empire, so that he could toss in a needless suggestion that the Beast was gay, and while it wasn’t as bad as it sounded, it was still unrealistic and insulting, in that it had Trish Trilby calling up and sounding nasty, so’s in order to set her up as the one to blame, while at the same time it slips in a kind of subliminal message in which the Beast de-facto states that he’s not going to have any relations with humans anymore. If so, then that’s quite a slap in the face to what Stan Lee and Jack Kirby thought of years before, in which the characters are acting like bigoted imperialists shutting themselves out from the world, when Xavier wanted the opposite viewpoint, which was to live in friendship and coexistence with regular humans.
Getting back the recent rumor, it’s a little confusing for me how the padding could be done, if they did it. Either they gutted some nice meaty stories, which would be to dumb them down, as they say, or, they’re trying to force the writers to bloat their stories needlessly.
I don’t know which is the exact answer, but I should hope that the rumor isn’t true.
(And just in case, no offense from me either, I’m a longtime fan too! :))
This is just the musings of a humble fanboy, but I think among the members of the cosmic intervention should be the only true Captain Marvel, Monica Rambeau. I know she had no relationship to the original, and she gave it up in an incredibly bad Avengers Unplugged story, but she did more honor to the title than Genis is doing so far. And with her Stern era powers she could give Genny a run for his money. Come on Peter, give us a throwdown for the rights to the name.
And along with other things that will never happen, how about Quasar showing up again?
Ben Hunt
Regarding the latest issue of Captain Marvel, Genis’ comparison between godhood and killing reminded me of a conversation between Deanna Troi and Trelane in “Q Squared”. Paraphrased from memory: “Killing someone doesn’t make you a god – any idiot with a phaser and a half-decent aim can do that. But bringing someone back from the dead does prove divine powers.”
The legal aspects of the death penalty were interesting – I’m sure there’s scope for Bob Ingersoll to write a column on that. (I remember him refuting the myth about being released if the first three attempts to hang someone fail.) I’d say that the spirit of the law is that the criminal shouldn’t be let loose on the streets, and that you don’t want to bear the cost of imprisoning that person for the rest of his/her life. In which case, if at first you don’t succeed, try try again… Morally, if it’s ok to kill someone once, then I don’t see a problem with killing that person multiple times. Legally (technically), I don’t know, but I guess this provides a precedent in the MU.
There’s added difficulty in writing a story about the death penalty in a comics universe, which is that in a world where traumatic experiences can give someone super-powers, the death penalty wouldn’t work the way it does in the real world. (The last thing you need is a serial killer developing electrical powers from the electric chair, poison powers from the lethal injection, or whatever.) After one high-profile incident of that type, the penalty would probably be abolished or rolled back to a form less likely to act as a power trigger (hanging? beheading?).
However, applying that sort of logic a) makes it hard to actually do stories addressing the issues involved (the “Star Trek” problem) and b) makes the Marvel/DC Universe less like ours on the surface. Therefore, logic of that sort is sensibly ignored. 🙂 (Although I’d be curious about the status of the death penalty in, say, the “Powers” universe.)
Regarding the rumor of Marvel padding their storylines.. it’s entirely possible.
Most, if not all of Marvel’s comics lately have been in storyarcs. You could say it’s popular due to the sales of Ultimate Comics, Hulk, Daredevil, etc.
To further fuel the rumor fire, also take note of Marvel’s popular TPB/HC program as of late. There’s been a quick turn around on these, some debuting very close to the end of storyarcs.
What’s the bottom line on collections? Is it more profitable?
-T
You’d have to look at the numbers. According to the latest figures, overall growth at Marvel Publishing was 4%. But Trade PB sales more than doubled (not quite tripled). If those are new sales, it’s a plus. If those are displacement sales, it’s (at worst) a wash.
I Like genis a lot, but Mar-Vell will always be my favorite. Those who say he should stay dead…I understand. See, I have been collecting Captain Marvel since early 70’s. Starlin’s run got me hooked. Growing up I learned more from the character of Mar-Vell than any other literary figure. He was a hero to me. An ideal. I adpted his ways, like a teaching. It molded me. I know people say that is extreme, but Mar-Vell had that Impact on me.
When Mar-Vell died of Cancer…it was far to real for me. I had lost my Aunt and Grandfather to Cancer. I understood people’s pain on the diease, but I wanted to escapr from the realities. I wanted the only figure I could look up to back, but I couldn’t cause he was gone the same way my Real Life role model died. I crusaded for Mar-Vell tocome back. Always met with resistance,but I never stopped trying. I never will give up hope that one day I can look upon a book starring my hero and relive the finer times in my life, when things were simpler and less complicated and assured that Mar-Vell would save the day.
For now, Genis serves well as Captain Marvel. I’ve followed him since Legacy, but Mar-Vell will always remain my favorite.
Scott
Here is a cut and paste from Geoff’s Message board. It in it self is a cut and paste from Joe Q’s board I think.
Today at wondercon,Geoff Johns said that after he turned in one of his early Avengers scripts, he was told there was “too much story” in it. In response to that, he said he basically took the original script and cut it in half, padding out scenes to fill a normal issue. He said he wasn’t surprised when reviews of the book came out and noted that there wasn’t much happening in the issue.
I would have chosen a different way to describe all this, but yes, that’s essentially accurate.
Tom Brevoort”
Hey big guy, mind explaining this? Yeah, thought so. That’s pretty sick. I expect a public appology for ripping off the fans.
I believe Geoff is talking about Red Zone. The thing with many team books that turn off general audiences, and me in particular, is when a slew of team members show up in the random fashion that we’ve become accustomed to seeing over the years. It’s a daunting task to actually care about that many players. It’s because of that history of traditional comic storytelling that Bill had a long conversation with Geoff before the beginning of the Red Zone arc. It was the only time that any of us have spoken to Geoff about the AVs that I’m aware of. The idea was to try a new approach to the book. To slow down a bit and not to just throw the characters headlong into the event. I believe there were more Avengers in the first issue and Bill suggested to keep it to about three and to take a bit more time to introduce, not only these heroic characters, but some of the people on the ground who were getting killed so that we could get a taste of the tragedy that was happening and how horrible it actually was. As for reviews, check these out.
Avengers review 1
Avengers review 2
Avengers review 3
Gee, these seems like rave reviews to me. Not only that but they site this as some of Geoff’s best stuff and they really seem to enjoy the intense characterization.
I would never deny that we asked Geoff to slow down, but it was for good reason and great effect. This is an incredible arc by an incredibly talented writer. Oh and the solo Falcon story he told before Red Zone was a lot of fun as well. A nice character study!
End cut and paste.
I’ve noticed the padding of stories for years. John Byrne’s Namor is one, Anything by Chuck Dixon is another (I can’t believe he gets away with so many splash pages and double page spreads ) Some day’s Peter puts alot in others not so much, but it seems each is done for dramatic effect.
On reviving Mar-Vell… I think that only the writer who killed them off should be able to bring them back, or maybe the character’s creator. That said, I wan’t colosis back and don’t want Lobdell near him.
What’s Len Wein doing now? 🙂
Multiple thoughts
1. “Please… nothing with “infinity” in the title either” however if PAD does it to mock the infinity crutch… I’d buy it.
2. Padding of stories… it isn’t too hard to identify when this happens. Pacing is so tightly tied to the art that it is hard to imagine a “corporate policy” that wouldn’t be obviously stupid. The slow reveal of the Red Zone story in Avengers is WONDERFUL. Coipel’s art is amazing (loved Legion as well) and perfect for a team book. I have no complaints about the pacing of that book at all… they’ve shown a softer (worried) side to She-Hulk, taken time to emphasize Ms. Marvel’s military background (Warbird, I mean), shown the civilian impact to the disaster, shown that heroes get respect and Cap as a leader. Best Avengers in a LONG time (maybe since the Ultron arc a while back). If we wanted to talk about stretching out of a story we should discuss the awful Kang arc a year or so ago. Uhg.
3. Re: Avi’s comment about the Beast. My attention has been drifting from the X-Men, too many art changes, too many titles, it is hard to keep track. For the love of Mike half the comics last week had Wolverine on the cover…. just stop it! LOVE THE Asamiya art… it took a while to get used to but it is such a breath of fresh air. KEEP TAKING CHANCES WITH THE ART!.
I thought the comments from Trish sounded wrong (for her character). She’s been around mutants for so long. What reporter in his/her right mind would sever ties with one of the preeminent mutants in the world. Hello? Professionally this is called a source that her co-workers and management would be whole-heartedly encouraging her to maintain contact with. I have faith in the press/journalism not to adopt blatantly (that they are aware of) racist policies. Probably my biggest gripe about the whole premise of the mutant/human animosity is the plot device use of the media to SHOW the hatred. In reality the media will always go after the sexy stories but editorially they would MOST PROBABLY take the side of tolerance, human rights, and peace. There is almost no way in hëll that any news organization would for a second take a position that mutants shouldn’t be afforded the exact same human rights and treatment as all people. There are always shock jocks and Fox news babble heads but the editorial consensus would be on the side of equal treatment… finding a way to put their powers, dangers, opportunities into the context of the law.
4. I missed the gay theme but would be more than willing to give the writers whatever lattitude they want. The orginal Kirby/Lee X-Men sort-of SUCKED. Nothing hallowed about those halls. The BIG IDEAS of their creation were brilliant but the intriguing parts of the characters were all created/developed later. Hulk, FF, DD, SM, IM and most of the other “founding” marvel characters have cores that need to be touched very carefully but not the original XMEN. I think the “secondary mutation” concept was brilliant and it is perfectly resonable that as these characters grow up and have changing powers that more then just physical changes might occur. IMHO… the best (and only decent) “classic” X-Men team stories are the retro ones done by modern creative teams. Steve Rude, Byrne, etc. More has been made of those characters nostalgicly.
ANYTHING that helps build consistant artist/writer teams is good in my book…. keep the look and feel of the book consistent.
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ANYTHING that helps build consistant artist/writer teams is good in my book…. keep the look and feel of the book consistent.
And in that context my cudos to PAD for HIS dedication to the books that he writes. It makes it so much easier for reader to stay tuned in.
I’m glad Mar-Vell is still currently dead. On the other hand, I enjoyed the miniseries Tom Brevoort wrote a few years ago set just before Mar-Vell’s first story in Marvel Superheroes and wouldn’t mind another flashback tale to that time.
–your pal, Hoy
I miss ya Mar-vell ( or “Some of my best friends are Kree” )
I have to admit that as much as I have enjoyed the adventures of Genis I still prefer Mar-vell. I would love to see him brought back if only for a short while. I’m sure a number of posters will accuse me of merely being a nostalgia freak but I truly miss the adventures of Mar-vell. I own his entire run ( 1-62 ), Marvel Spotlight appearances, Avengers crossovers , and his 1st appearance in Marvel Super- Heroes 12 & 13. In my humble opinion he was one of the few Super Heroes that ever truly learned and changed through the years. He was a hero that did the right thing as opposed to the Dirty Harry/ Hannibal Lecter/Wolverine anti heroes that represent the current “state of the art”….Geez I miss CM!
To paraphrase another well known Captain
“Of my friend, I can only say this: of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, his was the most… human”
**I’ve heard that Marvel is “encouraging” the padding of their stories, that Geoff Johns was told to split a single issue’s plot into two issues. Basically, more issues a year, but less story.
I’m asking this here because, and don’t take this the wrong way, Peter, but both the current issue and the last two “Asgard” issues seemed overly-drawn out. The plots could definitely have been tightened up. Sure I love your dialogue, but pages of conversation work against the medium.**
I’ve certainly received no such mandate.
As for the Asgard story, trying to cram that entire story into one issue and do justice to the environment of Asgard just wouldn’t have been possible.
PAD
Today at wondercon,Geoff Johns said that after he turned in one of his early Avengers scripts, he was told there was “too much story” in it.
“Too many notes, Mozart. Just…use fewer notes.”
PAD
“Too many notes, Mozart. Just…use fewer notes.”
That’s so odd, someone on the Quesada board said:
I like David- and think it’s a shame he can’t churn out the sort of 8 or 12 parter that can be slapped in a trade with a clear beginning, middle and end. Produce a few easily accessable books like those and he’ll get more recognition for his comics work.
And I responded with that Amadeus quote (including the “Just cut a few, and it’ll be perfect” line).
So Geoff too is being pressured to “cut a few notes” to make his work “more accessible”…