So the world opinion now is that Israel wants to sabotage the peace process. Because, y’know, sixty years of people killing you because you’re a Jew and you’re there isn’t enough; they want to prolong it.
For a month, things were quiet. Then another series of suicide bombers. Israel retaliates…and Israel is trying to scotch the peace process.
In my opinion, there will never be peace–ever–until the Palestinian people root out and destroy the terrorist organizations within their midst. It just won’t happen.
PAD
• 
Couldn’t agree with you more. Mostly because I thought the same thing last night. Caught the top of the hour news update before I went to bed, and heard that people were outraged at Israel’s actions. I was dumbstruck. Israel can’t do anything. Unless they sit there and allow themselves to be wiped off the map by a series of suicide bombers, they’re the Bad Guys. I don’t get it.
I understand the idea of the “circle of violence,” but we’re far past that right now. Israel has the right to defend itself and would be stupid if it didn’t.
They drop one bomb and kill a military leader and they’re ending the peace process. 20 (or whatever the exact number is by now) Palestinian suicide bombers blow up civilian target after civilian target and all is right with the world?!?
I just don’t get it.
-Augie
The problem is, the roots of this conflict go back such a long time. Feelings are strong on both sides and there is simply no easy way out. If you have an extremely complicated situation which is not only political but also religious, finding peace and a common ground is even more difficult.
I don`t know what the solution is. When I watch the news as a person who has a limited historic knowledge I feel the same about this conflict as about the tit for tat war in Northern Ireland, which is if I am not very mistaken the only country in the world where Catholics and Protestants still can`t live in peace together. I am just getting frustrated and fed up with the whole situation. Like Calhoun from your New Frontier series which I enjoy so much, I really feel the urge sometimes to knock the heads of some of these bickering politicians together. Unfortunately there is no one out there in the real world like him who is able to bring all sides together successfully.
But even although I also don`t know how to solve the conflict between Israel and Palestinians, I know that two wrongs don`t make a right, that *both* sides are guilty of wrongdoings, including atrocities. This bomb did not only kill a military leader. It was dropped deliberately in a civilian area, killing and injuring mainly civilians, including babies.
The suicide bombings have to stop. But retaliating like *this* is not the answer. Too many innocents pay the price and it only causes more hatred, more fanaticism.
Yes, the answer is indeed, both sides have to agree to stop here and now. Both sides have to agree – and to show that they are indeed serious about it – that people who commit crimes are punished. To be able to do so, this requires strong, wise, level headed leaders. Unfortunately neither Israel and certainly not Palestina has that.
I think the Latest Michael Moore book, “Stupid White Men” does a good job of illustrating a plan for peace.
Moore wrote an open letter to Arafat in which he tells him plainly the only way to get what he wants. Killing doesn’t work. Or if it does, it takes for-freakin-ever. The thing that has worked time and again is non-violent protest. Passive resistance. Worked for Gandhi, and for King. Why couldn’t it work for Palestine?
Well, aside from their seeming need to blow themselves up along with everyone in a 200 foot radius.
But aside from that…
Best,
Sean
BTW, Keep up the good work PAD.
Have you noticed that when a Palestinian suicide bomber kills Israeli children selected at random, you are hard pressed to find a Palestinian who will say anything other than basically “it is unfortunate that the criminal Israeli occupation causes such incidents” but when Israel directly targets an admitted terrorist who is hiding behind children suddenly the lives of children is something that will get them out in the streets protesting by the thousands? If the Palestinians are going to nonchalantly continue to shrug off the deaths of innocents as if they were just the price of doing business then they would be well advised to remember that that philosophy is a double edged sword at best.
It never ceases to amaze me how wonderful, enlightened, thoughtful and intelligent individual human beings can be.
How is it, then, that whenever people flock together as any kind of group, be it political, geographical or otherwise, they turn into a seething mass of blithering idiots who can’t make an intelligent decision to save their lives or that of anybody else?
I realise that there is no easy solution to any of these problems, but (and I know it’s a cliche) man’s inhumanity to man (on all sides) always seems to me to be motivated by the need for revenge far more than the need for a genuine solution to the problem.
I acknowedge that I’m woefully ignorant about the history of this conflict, but I agree that there will never be peace with the Middle East as it is today. I concur that Israel can’t just close its eyes and allow the terrorism to continue unchecked; and there are terrorist elements within Palestine who will never acknowledge ANY authority – be it Arafat, Palestine, UN, whatever – they’ll just continue their murderous ways. You can’t argue rationally with irrational men who are deep in the throes of religious fervour. No matter what ANYONE does, there are terrorist zealots who are going to keep targeting Israel because that’s all they know – and all they’re taught. A previous poster said “both sides must agree”. But even if “both sides” do, there will be terrorist elements – inside or outside of Palestine – who will perpetuate the conflict.
The solution is simple – move Israel. It’s the only way we’re going to be able to stop World War III starting in the middle East. They’re surrounded by enemies on all sides. It’s them verus everyone else in the area. I’ll give them Tasmania. Just MOVE! Get out of there.
Unfortunately, they won’t do that – that land is THEIRS, by golly. Says who? The bible. Or is it the Torah? Sorry. And we’re back to religion again.
But wouldn’t it be nice if the common enemy – and the only nuclear-weaponed one at that – was out of the equation? Let the Arabs throw rocks at each other without the worries attendant to the situation as it is today.
I know I’m naive, but when you look at the figures – less than 5 million Jews in Israel, almost 6 million in the USA, and the democrats just today saying that they want to pardon the *8* million illegal ‘wetbacks’ that are in the country, etcetera … it’s a drastic solution, but it *is* a solution! Am I a total novice for even considering it?
There will be no peace until the Messiah comes. It was something I first heard when I was playing goy toy for an elderly couple as a kid, and it’s something I repeat to myself each and everytime I watch the news.
I’d recommend writing the Zion Zion Chronicles by Brock and Bodie Thoene for a wonderful indepth view of how the modern day country of Isreal was formed. Although it is geared towards the Christian audience, the historical side was endepth enough to impress a couple of my history professors.
There will be no peace until the Stones tour Levant. Once Mick rights that big inflatable pëņìš once more, Arafat and Sharon will take off their clothes and PARTY DOWN. Just imagine, all of Israel and Palestine nude.
I agree with Brad. I realize that desert is holy to three different religions (and countless sects within each), but would it really be so bad to save all of those Jewish lives by moving everyone to Oklahoma or Canada or, if they really like desert, Montana or Utah?
Seriously, as PAD once said in Jarella’s world, it always boils down to Sects and violence.
-Joe (who foolishly thinks children’s lives are worth more than land)
Man, I was really enjoying your website. Until the murder of Palestinian babies by Israel sparks you to criticise…Palestine. There will always be terrorists in Palestine as long as Israel commits assasinations.
Apparently, waging war is now a 9-5 job. Once the combatants punch out at the end of the day and go home to their families, they’re no longer legitimate targets. After all, haven’t all the suicide bombings been between 9-5? Shame on Israel for not following the rules, and shame on them for not simply targeting random victims like the other side, instead of going after those who order and plot the suicide attacks.
Nice American fighter they used for the job. Suicide bombings are obviously 9-5 – they are intended to attack busy places. It’s the Israeli claim that they are “fighting terrorism”??! It’s a two sided conflict, not terrorism and defence from.
If Osama B was in a room with 10 American babies would you murder the lot?
“Man, I was really enjoying your website. Until the murder of Palestinian babies by Israel sparks you to criticise…Palestine. There will always be terrorists in Palestine as long as Israel commits assasinations.”
And as long as the terrorisit continue to attack Israel, they will continue to defend themselves. Its a cycle that will never end with that mindset.
I really like what sean shared from Michael Moore’s book. Israel is in the middle east. Put yourself in the 1950’s here. Do you think if the black population of the US started atacking US schools and blowing up bus stops, they would have madee the impact they did in the world. The way I see it, Isreal is just trying to defend its exsitance. If Palastine is truly in such a bad spot, wouldn’t it make a much bigger impact by showing that in nonvolient ways???
“If Osama B was in a room with 10 American babies would you murder the lot?”
Depends. Its not a decision I ever want to make. I would do everything in my power to make it not happen. But if was the choice was letting him hide behind the children and letting him plan acts of terror against my friends and family. Yes I would take him out. I would ask God to forgive me the rest of my life, but I would. I pray no one ever has to make that choice. It would more horrible then I could imagine. But its not an imposible situtation.
An airplaine is highjacked again and is heading towards a downtown area to do a replay of 9-11. Do you shoot it down and kill the 200 people in it to save the 2000 in the building it is heading for??
And of course the old question people have been for years now. You have the chance to kill Hitler while he is still a child, and save the world from the all the horrors of world war 2. Do you do it?
As Israel has done, you cant just oppose the UN’s decree of setting up a Palestine state and a Jewish state, via war, and terrorsim, to occupy further territories. Then when the people of those lands you have invaded and occupied oppose you, claim THEY are terrorists. Oh, wait – You can if America backs you with arms and money.
“Put yourself in the 1950’s here. Do you think if the black population of the US started atacking US schools and blowing up bus stops, they would have made the impact they did in the world”
When their leaders were being assasinated and homes attacked? Sounds similar…
I look at it like this. Isreal is fight for its life. Most of the terrorist organizations will not be happy intill there is no Isreal. Most of the Arab countrys love to use the Palestinians to get at Isreal. Funny how Iraq, Iran, Jordon or any other Arab country is unwilling to give up land but Isreal should. Intill the Palestinian elect a leader who does not believe in using terrorist then there will be no peace.
“When their leaders were being assasinated and homes attacked?”
And why are they being attacked? Because IIsrael is trying to defend itself. I don’t think (and I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong) that Israel has ever launched an attack unless it was in responce to one aganist it.
And if you dont think that the blacks who lead the civil rights movement suffered for what they tried did, look into it. And still, the ones that made the impact, the ones we remember as changing our country, they are the ones who made there case through peaceful means. There were the ones then who called fo uprising and were more militant, but it Martin Luther King Jr and Rosa Parks we remember.
Ped wrote: “As Israel has done, you cant just oppose the UN’s decree of setting up a Palestine state and a Jewish state, via war, and terrorsim, to occupy further territories.”
Had the Arabs accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have become a refugee and an independent Arab state would now exist beside Israel. Jewish leaders urged the Arabs to remain in Palestine and become citizens of Israel. Israel’s Proclamation of Independence, issued May 14, 1948, also invited the Palestinians to remain in their homes and become equal citizens in the new state … A plethora of evidence exists demonstrating that Palestinians were encouraged to leave their homes to make way for the invading Arab armies.
See http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/refugees.html
To the knucklehead above who seems to blame the Palestinian-Israeli conflict entirely on the Israelis, sorry, dude, you’re wrong.
You’re probably one of those šhìŧhëádš who feels that “the Palestinians are justified in their homicide bombings because IT’S THE ONLY WEAPON THEY HAVE.”
Bûllšhìŧ.
If one’s choice is between accepting being exiled from one’s homeland and blowing up innocent children who did not directly have a dámņ thing to do with it, you accept your exile, crappy though it may be.
I wonder if all of the šhìŧhëádš who say this think that if Native Americans started homicide bombings to reclaim the U.S., it would be understandable because “it’s the only weapon they have.”
Sorry, Mr. I-Support-the-Palestinians-Without-Really-Thinking-It-Through, but while both sides in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict are somewhat in the wrong, the Palestinians are more in the wrong. The Israelis have never deliberately targeted innocent civillians with no terrorist connections; the Palestinians have.
I wonder what would happen if Palestinian people came, in singles or groups, completely unarmed, and sat down next to the cafes and bus stops that they seem so proud to bomb… and instead sang protest songs and politely reminded passerbys of their plight? Would it do any good? How would Israel, as a people and as a government, react?
I can’t imagine the results being any worse than what is happening there now.
I’m glad to see that you’re continuing the fight, Peter. I’ve found a couple of people already who were delighted that you are. The thing that is really disturbing is that the media establishment uses the nasty trick of “blaming the victim”, and it’s a very harmful tactic that they’re using. Which is precisely why we should all be boycotting sources like CNN, among others, for their biased approach to the issue.
I just read that four more Israelis were murdered by terrorists… including one child. Where are the protests? Where is the media?
Unlike the Israeli attack, it wasn’t on the front page, and the victims weren’t even referred to as Israeli, only “settlers”.
It sure seems to me that the media is doing its best to de-humanize the Israelis while glorifying the Palestinians. If the US were under constant attack the way Israel is, they would crush their enemies and get away with it.
Patrick Gaffney wrote:
“If Osama B was in a room with 10 American babies would you murder the lot?”
The answer is no. It would also be no for Palestinian and Israeli babies.
Personally I believe the solution to Middle East peace is really very simple, but nobody wants to try it.
Palestine agrees to stop their terrorist attacks.
Israel agrees to stop building settlements on Palestinian land.
Settlements already established would be under the control of Palestine. Settlers would not be forced to relocate and would be treated fairly.
Taxes could be collected by Palestine from these settlers, and this could give a boost to their economy–something desperately needed.
Now I’m not so wide-eyed and innocent that I believe this will end the violence of terrorist groups such as Hamas, the Israeli Terrorist Orgainzation, for at the heart of such groups is a simple, stupid desire to kill anybody handy and a want for raw power.
However, if the Palestine and Israeli governments co-operated, this could create the start of a general peace and allow them to combine forces to destroy the terrorist groups operating in both their countries to insure an everlasting peace.
Ray
Totally disagree with you on this, dear PAD. I think that Israel has the DUTY to defend itself from terrorism, but has also the duty to AVOID errors such as the last one: killing 8 child to kill a HAMAS leader is not a compromise I understand (sorry for my english, I’m Italian): it isn’t possible that a State behave as the terrorist he is fighting.
his is a very limited and maybe naive
COMMENT: if you want I can extend my point in a future message.
Ciao
Rico
Mr. Tate, with all due respect, I want you to know “palestine” is the late Roman name for the Land of Israel (originally they called it IUDAEA, Judea) that was reused by the British after they were given a mandate by the international community in 1920 to develop the country as the Jewish national home, a mandate which the British violated.
And as for the Arabs, let us be clear: if there’s any country to which they DO have a national claim, it’s Saudi Arabia.
Do you want to know how the conflict between us Jews and the Arabs began? It was back in the middle ages, when the early Muslim rulers conquered the country, particularly under the rule of the Caliph Omar, when they oppressed Jews and other non-Muslims (Christians, etc.) with severe taxes and all sorts of discriminatory and humiliating rules. They thus drove many Jews out of the country, many coming to Europe.
Whatever the Ministry of Truth tells you about Islam it is NOT a tolerant and peaceful religion, and there are many parts in the Quran that contain racist and misogynistic themes.
Yasir Arafat, I want you to know, is a terrorist leader who was one of those responsible for planning the Munich massacre in 1972. I hope that you agree that, if he is a murderer, he for one DOES NOT deserve to be a leader in any way.
And since Judea and Samaria, the real name for the “west bank,” are Jewish by national right, then let us be clear: the Jews who live there have every right to do so, and you should never say something that the enemy would want you to say.
Furthermore, both the Jewish and the Christian bibles make it clear that the Lord our God gave the Land of Israel, INCLUDING Judea and Samaria, to the Jews, and if I were you, I’d respect that. Believe it or not, even the Qu’ran says that the Jews were the people chosen to live in the Land of Israel (Quran, Sura 5:20-22).
Please apologize for making statements that can be encouraging for Israel’s enemies.
“If Osama B was in a room with 10 American babies would you murder the lot?”
Yes in a bloody heartbeat and I wouldn’t think twice on it.
No one should really make statements about Israel until he or she knows the history of Israel. The Jews in Israel excepted the 1948 partition, while the Arabs rejected it and waged war to destroy the state. Many of the Palestinians fled their homes when the Arab countries told them to leave and come back after the destruction of Israel. This didn’t happen, hence, the refugee problem: a problem invented by the Arab countries! Today, the ones who didn’t leave and their ancestors are IN Israel as citizens…… The Palestinians want all the Jews out of their areas, while no one mentions the 1.4 million Palestinians who live in Israel. The main issue is this::::
THE PALESTINIANS WANT ALL THE JEWS IN ISRAEL OUT. This is the main issue. They will continue to kill Jews. There cannot be a peace with people who preach violence and destruction. Israel has a right to defend herself. Both sides are not to blame. The writer of the statement above is ignorant!!! Israel has a right to kill terrorists-WHEREVER THEY ARE!!! Maybe folks… it’s not a good idea to hang out with terrorists… what a lesson….. So all of you who make comments without knowing….. don’t you think you should read????
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