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FNSM #5: (Belief) Vanna is confronted at the end by Aunt May.
Luigi Novi: That was clear. I don't know how anyone could see Vanna as an elderly woman, and think that Aunt May could still be alive, though I'm sure that if Aunt May were still alive, Anna Nicole Smith might consider lesbianism.

X-FACTOR #4: (Belief) The assassin was delivered to SI in some sort of frozen material or enveloped in an energy field. (Fact) No, that was bubble wrap.
Luigi Novi: I thought it was frozen material, and looking at it again makes it look like an energy field, because of the unconnected dots (an ironic metaphor for this blog entry, if you think about it). While I like Sook/Grawbadger/Calero's art, and artists have to experiment in order to see how is the best way to render something, this one just didn't work out. Given the size of the object and its distance from the camera eye, focusing on the individual bubbles by rendering all those little dots was overkill, when focusing large wrinkles on the material would've been better.

No, that was a tranq dart that deadened her vocal cords.
Luigi Novi: The first impression that her throat was cut may stem from the curved line on her throat in that one panel (I'm still not sure how that could imply a dart), but since the subsequent panels clearly show her holding up the dart, how much clarification do you need at that point? I mean, she even speaks after pulling it, which I don't think one could do once having their throat cut. Trust me, I've tried it. It wasn't a pleasant experiment.

That was Damian Tryp, Jr., from earlier in the book, who had a face to face discussion with Siryn and warned her off lest something bad happen to her.
Luigi Novi: Given that the panel in which he appeared during the latter attack was almost identical to the prior one in which the assassin was delivered to him, I don't see how anyone could miss this. Again, I think this one is on the readers.

No, that was events leading up to it.
Luigi Novi: Interestingly, I made this point when I updated the Wikipedia article on Fallen Angel when I wrote:

Although exactly what happened next is not yet clear, it is presumable that she either took action against Holly’s killer, renounced her position as a guardian angel, or that her loyalty to the "boss" began a decline with this incident. Whatever occurred is a source of animosity that Lee holds for Malachi.

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Angel_%28comics%29)

You know, I enjoyed hearing you read the script for X-Factor at Wondercon, but it also kind of threw off my reading experience of the actual comic. During the deadly serious last page, I couldn't get out of my mind your acting out the scene by banging the table in front of you. And all the to the muffled soundtrack of the "Superman Returns" preview in the next room, no less...

Luigi Novi: Given that the panel in which he appeared during the latter attack was almost identical to the prior one in which the assassin was delivered to him, I don't see how anyone could miss this. Again, I think this one is on the readers.

If anything, you could argue the fact that in the panel we see of Tryp looking down at Siryn (ie, the one after she's lying on the ground clutching her throat), he's all wide-eyed and you could think his little beard thing is not really there, but that it's just shadowing on his face, and thus think it's supposed to be somebody else.

Ok, I think I've overanalyzed that one enough now.

While I think it's clear enough that the person at the end of FNSM is MJ and not Aunt May (it should be VERY clear when she says widow), the issue left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

The speech from MJ is basically telling an obviously mentally ill woman to eff off. In fact, the judge tells her to eff off even though he realizes she's obviously mentally ill.

This isn't the case of someone with some fannish overreactions or some faulty logic, the story pretty well goes to lengths to convince us that she's a nutter, and MJ speech comes off sounding as if the mentally ill have only themselves to blame for not pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps and telling those pesky voices in their heads to shut up.

I admit that you didn't tell the cliche story I expected where we get a happy ending and Vanna gets some much needed help that she realizes she needs, but I'm not sure the (probably unintended) possible reading of the story really works either.

"The speech from MJ is basically telling an obviously mentally ill woman to eff off. In fact, the judge tells her to eff off even though he realizes she's obviously mentally ill."

Mentally ill? She wasn't mentally ill. Insecure and conceited, definitely. But not mentally ill.

I've known people like Vanna. Their problems aren't nearly as grand as mental illness. They're just insecure little people who'd rather believe that someone is spying on them than face their own problems. I can't imagine someone like that actually learning from MJ's speech, but it's definitely good for MJ. You have to stand up to the small little people and tell them to act like adults.

As for MJ looking like Aunt May, I find it surprising that anyone was that confused. I actually liked the fact that Spidey's future wife (presumably MJ) looked like Aunt May. It felt like a connection between the two women in Peter's life who both act as emotional protectors for him. I don't know that it was intentional, but that's how I thought of it, and I got a kick out of it.

I just picked up X-Factor #s 1-4 today (and enjoyed them very much, btw), and I have to admit I completely missed that it's supposed to be Tryp...Junior, to be precise. I'd agree that it's the fault of the shading in the panel - even now, I can't see his goatee thingie. His hair seems shorter, too.

I never had any doubt at all that it was the dart affecting Siryn's voice.

As for the bubble wrap...I never really thought about it either way. I guess I'm just not analytical enough.

Mentally ill? She wasn't mentally ill. Insecure and conceited, definitely. But not mentally ill.
>>

Err...even the judge seems to believe her to be mentally ill, perhaps not a danger to anyone, and perhaps not in the sense of throwing fecal maatter, but she's shown signs of paranoid delusions and irrational thinking throughout the story. I mean, seriously, can you really read that and not see a disturbed individual? Maybe not the "sexy" version of mental illness that Hollywood tries to sell, but mental illness all the same, which is what I at first thought would be the point of the issue, then we had a sudden lef turn and jump years later to MJ telling a woman who had shown serious, if harmless, signs of mental illness all her life to not be such a baby.

I thought it was styrofoam packing peanuts, not bubble wrap. But I REALLY don't like the murkiness of the art, which is more and more looking like von Grawbadger's fault.

Hey Peter, at least one of your fans that reads this website is a big fan of SOULSEARCHERS. Any fan of your humor should be reading this title. It is always one of the highlights of the week when it comes out.

"Err...even the judge seems to believe her to be mentally ill"

The judge told her to get professional help. That's not the same thing as calling her crazy or mentally ill. Lots of sane people with problems get professional help.

And sometimes, those professionals say things that aren't too different from what MJ said.

Since it always bites me in the butt with internet discussion, I'll lay it out on the table early on that I consider fiction subjective, and my comments on the issue are my own subjective reading of it and are not to imply that it was actually the way PAD meant it to come across, or that others should have had the same reaction.

"The judge told her to get professional help. That's not the same thing as calling her crazy or mentally ill"

I'm sorry, but the character is written as so paranoid and delusional that she easily falls into the realm of being someone very much divorced from reality. Yes, the speech from MJ at the end would have worked quite well if not for the fact that Vanna comes across as being seriously disturbed.

"And sometimes, those professionals say things that aren't too different from what MJ said"

Those are either the crappiest psychologists on the planet or the type of therapist that Vanna says she fired ;)

Vanna comes across as mentally ill and has all the signposts of serious loss of being able to tell reality from delusion. Whether she's meant to come across that way or not.

I think Narcisitic Personality Disorder would be the condition that her behavior most closely fits, based on what I've been told and read about that condition (though I'm a layman).

"I'm sorry, but the character is written as so paranoid and delusional that she easily falls into the realm of being someone very much divorced from reality. Yes, the speech from MJ at the end would have worked quite well if not for the fact that Vanna comes across as being seriously disturbed."

Seriously disturbed?

Let me give an example of "seriously disturbed".

Seriously disturbed is not writing a weblog that says Spider-Man is following you around. Seriously disturbed is devoting your entire journalistic career to slandering Spider-Man as a criminal in a newspaper.

Seriously disturbed is not getting a restraining order. Seriously disturbed is paying large sums of money to have someone altered into a giant scorpion to so he can attack Spider-Man.

J.J.J. has gone *massively* beyond everything Vanna has done. Sometimes people call him crazy, but they always call him a jerk.

Yet Vanna gets the treatment of "Oh, poor little victim, she has no personal responsibility for her actions."

The reason people turn into "victims" like Vanna is because we treat them like victims instead of treating them like adults.

I admit to being uncertain as to what it was the assassin was wrapped in, but why would anyone think Siryn's throat had been cut? It clearly shows her holding a dart, and people generally don't say, "Ow! What the h--" when their threat has been cut.

Posted by: Robert Fuller at March 5, 2006 03:16 AM

I admit to being uncertain as to what it was the assassin was wrapped in, but why would anyone think Siryn's throat had been cut? It clearly shows her holding a dart, and people generally don't say, "Ow! What the h--" when their threat has been cut.

Depending on how sharp the blade and how fast the cut, you might blurt out somthing before the Really Bad Stuff eventuated...

There's an old vaudevill/burlesque/minstrel routine about the sharpest blade ever made, and the punchline is "Oh no? Then turn your head a little."

Jason, just because you find someone that is more mentally disturbed doesn't mean that another person isn't also seriously disturbed just because they don't exhibit that exact same criteria. We have how many years of history on Jameson, compared to 1 issue of Vanna. Vanna also doesn't have Jameson's money, so who's to say she wouldn't do these things to try and get rid of Spider-Man if she did?

What is obvious is that she has some severe problems, and paranoia is not the top one.

The reason many victims have continuing problems is because people like you refuse to realize that they need some help and treat them as if there is nothing wrong.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If people aren't reading SOULSEARCHERS, they're really missing out on a great book!

Everyone that enjoys Peter's work owes it to themselves to order it. The end.

Derek
St. Paul, MN

*raises hand* I read Soulsearchers! Unfortunately, I haven't caught up with the current issue yet. (I'm still waiting on issue 50 from the Lucky Mojo people. They sent me Elvira by mistake.)

X-Factor;

I will always consider that team to be made up of the five original X-Men; Cyclops, Phoenix, Beast, Angel, and Iceman.

I wish they were on the team again as they are perhaps the most loyal to Professor X;s dreams and ideals.

I didn't have any problem with any of the misconceptions except for who was beating up Siryn. Everything else I got, including the bubble wrap, which I thought was pretty darn funny.

I love Soulsearchers.

Unfortunately, the only way I've been able to get it is to buy it whenever I go to the US, which is once a year.

(I've tried to mail order them. Let's just say that my country mail is not exactly reliable)

(OTOH, I loved the bubblewrap thing. I've been giggling over Layla FedEX-ing the body since Wendsday)

That was bubble-wrap? Geez. Not that I had a problem with that scene, but man, what a crappy depiction of bubble-wrap!

I didn't realize it was Tryp Jr., I thought it was a cop. Partly me not paying enough attention (though I thought it was obvious her throat wasn't cut), partly the art being a bit murky and overly shadowy (I'm not gonna be blaming Von Grawbadger too much, since I think he's the one currently keeping the book afloat in artistic terms, making the styles of both pencilers come closer together thanks to his inks--considering how crisp they are over in Nextwave, I'm sure there's a good reason for the muddier inks here)

I didn't like the ending of FNSM either. It seemed mean-spirited.

Yet Vanna gets the treatment of "Oh, poor little victim, she has no personal responsibility for her actions.">>

Where are you getting that from? I don't think we really see her treatment besides characters obviously reacting to her as if she's not all there. We don't see any other perspective than hers. Even Jameson looks at her like she has a few screws loose.

Also, she doesn't TAKE any actions. The most she does is try to get a restraining order and even then she's shown as being paranoid.

"The reason people turn into "victims" like Vanna is because we treat them like victims instead of treating them like adults."

I think that's the problem some people are having with the ending, and why one poster already says it comes across as "meean spirited".

From everything shown Vanna has a pathological paranoia that has fixated itself on Spider-Man, and though we don't see it you have to wonder how it affected other areas of her life as she is shown as a lonely old woman.

Actually, it would make more sense it this was Jameson's journal, as then it would resonate more with the character and reader.

Jameson is the successful publisher of a powerful newspaper and an influential man. If he has a fization on Spider-Man it hasn't interfered with the rest of his life as he's still selling papers and making money.

Compare that to a woman who has nothing.

I'm not granting her victim status, but the end message of the comic comes off as mean spirited and wrongly targeted. Why would MJ feel the need to slag off this woman,a woman who has nothing, when there are others who surely followed in Jameson's steps (assuming he's dead by this time) and slagged off Spider-Man.

MJ carried a grudge for that long?

Mentally unbalanced people just need a stern lecture to turn their pathological psychiatric problems around?

Seriously though, I think you hit the ticket on the Jameson thing, I think that would have had real impact. MJ handing a bloody Spider-Man mask to Jameson and revealing Peter's identity and Jameson realizing all his petty hate was a waste. Now, that's a great ending.

What, no live-blogging Oscar thread? Who will we be able to share our snarky comments with?

>That was bubble-wrap? Geez. Not that I had a problem with that scene, but man, what a crappy depiction of bubble-wrap!

Huh, this is the first time that I've heard about the confusion, but it seemed very clear to me. It was a plain wooden box shipped to a house with an unrefridgerated body inside. I did a double-take, but it made sense to me as bubble wrap at the time.

Fred

Yeah...I did not get that either...plus we see a character playing with the bubble wrap earlier, as I recall.

"Also, she doesn't TAKE any actions. The most she does is try to get a restraining order and even then she's shown as being paranoid."

She fired a therapist. Sounds like she was taking action-she was refusing help and advice.

I posted this under another subject heading below, but I figure I should post this here, too, so it won't get buried. My two cents on FNSM:

What I found particularly fascinating was the part where Mary Jane was saying to Vanna that some people blame their failures on their youthful traumas while others use those traumas to propel them to greatness. Well, the latter part certainly applies to Peter, of course. But soon after reading the story, I realized it also applies to someone else--MJ, herself; the family dysfunction in MJ’s childhood mirrors Vanna’s quite a bit. However, whereas Vanna was stunted by her pain and made Spider-Man a target in her lashing out, MJ did the opposite--she became an extrovert, the life of the party, even a model. In the beginning, her actions were a way for her to hide or forget her pain, but eventually she really elevated herself in the end. Heck, she even married Spider-Man; she’s like the anti-Vanna!
I admit that, at first, I was a little surprised by the seeming cruelty of MJ towards Vanna, but when I realized how Vanna’s background mirrored MJ’s, I could understand how someone like Vanna might piss her off to the core (plus the fact that Vanna has been attacking her husband on her blog for decades), and that MJ would want to give her a piece of her mind. Does what MJ say make her seem like a bitter old woman? Perhaps. But more to the point, MJ is only human, with her own flaws. And characters who have flaws is not a bad thing at all in stories. Thanks, PAD, for a great one-off, an issue that is about MJ as much as it is about Peter.

I just wanted to say I read FNSM #5 and liked it. I don't know exactly where it came from; but, I liked it.

Not much more for me to say, I guess.

I read Soulsearchers. #78 is being solicited in the latest PREVIEWS.

The only one I have read is X-Factor, but oddly enough I understood all those things you pointed out. What got me confused at first was who was playing with Jack Vaughn's mind. It took me two readings to understand that was Monet outside the plane. At first, with the coloring and shape of the eyes, she looked more asian than she did in other parts of the book. I thought it was somebody from Singularity getting petty revenge for Jack's bad attitude.

I didn't really buy the ending of FNSM. Yeah, it brings the story to a turn, gives it a little purpose, but I just don't buy that the widow would seek this woman out - this is clearly not an issue that has particularly bothered Spider-Man in his life, insofar as it has never been referred to before. It makes me curious what sort of conversation she might have with Jonah, or, say, whoever killed Spider-Man.

I realised it was bubble-wrap, by the way, but I did figure it to be ice as I originally turned the page.

X-Factor; I will always consider that team to be made up of the five original X-Men; Cyclops, Phoenix, Beast, Angel, and Iceman.

Funny. I always consider them to be the original X-Men, and thought X-Factor was a lame attempt to bring them back together. :-)

While I would love to see the 5 original in a book -- and would buy it if it had a decent writer -- PAD's X-Factor has been the only X-Factor comic worth reading (no offense to any of the other writers but if PAD quit this book I would drop it immediately). With PAD, it doesn't really matter who is on the team since it will be a well written story (at least most of the time -- Fallen Angel just never worked for me).

Iowa Jim

Iowa Jim

I read X-Factor AFTER seeing people talk about Siryn apparently getting her throat cut, and when I got to that page I didn't get that out of the scene as drawn. I looked at the object Tryp was using and it looked blunt to me.

Hey, Peter! I had no problems with the parts mentioned above, and I've just learned about Soulsearchers...I found two trades, are there any others?

Alan

Re: Siryn getting her throat cut - thank you for not cutting her throat and clarifying!

Wow. That has to be one of the weirdest sentences I've ever written on the internet.

But thanks anyway, because cutting a Cassidy's throat = hackneyed plot device.

Alan: there are only two SoulSearchers TPBs so far, so you've got them both.

(I got a bit confused by the packing material at the end, thinking it was ice, but that wasn't a major problem.)

Iowa Jim, you may want to try the new Fallen Angel series. I find the writing to be vastly more interesting than in the previous series, though I did like the Hurly Burly arc of that one.

Lynn

Yeah, Jim might actually like it. Particularly the fifth issue, in which the Fallen Angel explains what God's plan is and why bad things happen to good people. I happened to wind up discussing the series with a Reform rabbi at "Wondercon" and ran it past him. He says he can't swear to it, but he doesn't think anyone's ever come up with it before. So, hey...new territory.

PAD

Dag Blast it Peter, I have repeatedly tried Fallen Angel and picked up #1 of the current series because of your commitment to it and your conviction that it is your best work. Yet, I have yet to be drawn into it for whatever reason (my own personal taste, a missing chromosome, etc). Yet, you repeatedly toss out an idea or aspect of an upcoming story that I find difficult to resist. How do I solve this dilemma?

Signed,

Up Dawson's Creek Without a Remote

Apparently, I have a "yet" fixation. I'll have that checked out.

For Jason M. above, in regards to JJJ....

Some people call him MAUR-ice....

A yet fixation is better than a yeti fixation. (or at least less dangerous.)

Okay, I don't know why there was any confusion. I got every point PAD felt the need to clarify.

Oh, and I'm one of the 12 people crazy enough to read Soulsearchers, thank you very much!

And so far I'm really enjoying Red Sonja vs. Thulsa Doom.