PeterDavid.net

Well, I, for one, am unhappy about the return of crossovers in monthly titles. This one doesn't hurt my wallet because I buy all the Spidey books. However, I fear that the management at both of the Big Two is starting something that many readers won't finish. I mean, we had the 90's already, and look how they turned out. Why is the industry going back to these short-sighted contrivances that seem (in my view) to drive readers away in the long run?

That said, PAD, I hope that FNSM works out well for you and that you do pick up plenty of readers from the crossover. I'm really looking forward to your tenure on the book.

Eric

Well, I'm sort of irked/inconvienced that I have to take FNSM off my pull list already(I stuck it on there the second it was solicited), since I'm not dumping down three dollars for a Hudlin issue. His work has been somewhere between lackluster and depressingly bad. Though one can only hope that working so closely with JMS and PAD will do him some good.

Past that I don't mind too much. Beats the status quo of stories that take half a year to get finished (and not big stories like JSA's Princes of Darkness and Flash's Rogue War that have been built up for years).

Thanks for the heads up. I'm sorry to say but I hate crossovers. I guess I won't be getting FNSM after all.

Screw crossover hating; I'm getting FNSM regardless. I might not particularly appreciate a crossover arc right off the bat, but it makes a certain sort of sense... exposes readers on all titles to the new title/writer, and acts as lure for the existant Spidey titles.

Now, if it's going to be crossover mania for half the year's worth of issues, I might change my position come this time 2006... but 'fear of crossover' alone isn't going to keep me from picking up 'FNSM.' Like PAD said, you don't HAVE to buy the other titles.

I probably will, though, to be completist. Stupid Type-A genes!

...should have read "existING Spidey titles." Midnight is just not a good time for me to be thinking.

It's interesting that Marvel pretty much stopped doing crossovers when PAD left his titles, and now they're starting up again now that PAD is back.

Actually, I'm kind of excited about the crossover. One of the reasons I stopped reading Straczynski's Spider-man was because he appeared to simply abandon the whole spider-totem plot thread. It didn't seem to go anywhere and it seemed to end with little fanfare. Glad to see it hasn't been abandoned after all.

I'm afraid that I was one of the people griping about the crossover at Newsarama.

I haven't read a Spider-Man book in years. When I heard about you and Mike on FNSM, it actually got me excited about reading Spider-Man again. I was looking forward to a series where you could tell your own Spidey stories. I don't know, I guess I was expecting FNSM to be just your book and that I wouldn't have to buy the other two to get your story.

You do present a good argument for this crossover. From a writing perspective, I agree with you about the "one writer a month" idea is good. It should make this much better than normal crossovers. And exposing the readers who only buy one book (like I was planning to do with FNSM) to the other Spidey writers is a good idea too.

Maybe I'm thinking too traditionally. One book-one writer-one story. A 3-part, complete Spidey story by you in one month is definately exciting. So, what's my problem? I don't know.

To end my rambling, I'll just say that I'm looking forward to your Spidey issues in Oct. And, who knows, I love being surprised about enjoying a story when I didn't think I would. I just might be eating crow as I enjoy the other writers' parts of this crossover. It should be fun regardless of what happens.

Lex

P.S. I enjoyed your responce to my Newsarama post about FNSM not being Part 3 of the crossover. :)

I like crossovers.
I also like strong continuity. I, personally, thought that the numbering of the Superman books to have continuity was one of the best thing ever done in comics.

I'll buy them all.

Peter,

Looking forward to reading Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.

Maybe it's just me, but what does not liking crossovers have to do with whether you're going to pick up an ongoing title long-term or not? Just skip the crossover issues and come back for the regular run. Saying "I hate crossovers, guess I'll skip reading the entire run of your series," strikes me as kind of petulant. Everyone here is obviously savvy enough to know who is writing a given issue and who isn't, so buy the writers you like and skip the ones you don't. Also, most comic shop pull list people (being one myself) are happy to take notes and edits... tell your shop you want all the issues except the crossover and they'll give you that. It makes it much easier for them to operate if they know what their clientele is planning on buying.

Well, PAD, you can count on me picking up your books in October. The rest...definitely "wait and see," but leaning toward "no" for reasons of personal taste. PAD, at least you're getting me to break my "no ASM" rule, just this once!

Good news that a complete story will be in your 3-parter!:-)

Good luck with this one, PAD!

~G.

Well, as much as I despise crossovers, I'll just do like I usually do - get the PAD books and not worry about the rest. And I'll look at the three issues as one big PAD-written Spidey story which is never, ever a bad thing in my opinion.

Well now, here's a dilemma. I dislike crossovers so usually when they hit I skip the title for the duration, and IF I hear amazing things about them (which I never did so far) I'll get the trade. Out of the 3 titles involved here, 2 are on my list and the only reason MKSM isn't is I'm very unexcited about Hudlin's work.

On a sidenote, I think it's important to say that since crossovers seem like a pretty much unavoidable annoyance nowadays (again), at least SOME good word should go to Marvel for playing around with the format both in HOM and here, trying to find a way to make it more interesting at least - and, of course, for having a very reliable TPB program in place.

So, as I really DO want to read the story, I guess I could say 'well, 2 out of 3 isn't bad' and get the singles as they get published, including the Hudlin work. But for whatever reason, ASM has a tendency to be late, and it would annoy me even more to have to wait for part 5 when 7 is already published (or whatever).

Guess it might be 'Waiting for the trade' after all, at the risk of being subjected to spoilers until it's out.

We'll see.

I appreciate your take/explanation/spin on the matter, but it doesn't make the case as far as I'm concerned.
I haven't picked up a regular Spider-title in more than a decade and was really looking forward to your book. I wanted to read YOUR run on "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" not your FIRST issue then have to skip the next two issues as "fill-in" writers put their touches on "your" book, only to resume with issue 4. As it stands, I'm afraid I can't put my support behind this. On the other hand, I will be ordering the Kolchak: The Night Stalker Chronicles book (admittedly, I'm a Kolchak fan and would've probably ordered it anyway, so your participation is more a case of a special incentive) and I'm also really interested in reading your take on Carl Kolchak in the upcoming "Kolchak Tales" comic. Perhaps if my interest in Spider-Man were at the same level as my interest in Carl Kolchak, I'd be more willing to take a chance on this Spider-Man crossover; unfortunately, it's not.
But good luck with "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" even though I won't be along for the ride.

Likewise, I'm sadly forced to drop FNSM as well. This just isn't what I was looking for - and yes, it's VERY significant that the beginning of what I'd hoped would be my first Spidey core book is swallowed up by a crossover spinning out of a JMS storyline.

And even if I didn't mind the concept of a crossover, a collaboration between PAD, Hudlin and Straczynski sounds about as appealing as a musical performance by Frank Sinatra, Roseanne Barr and Steve Urkel.

I will get FNSM but, no, not the other books of that crossover.

I am already getting fed up with Marvel again because of this "House of M" mega crossover event. It is MUCH too big and offputting. I pre-ordered the core series but will stick to the regular series I am buying anyway.

Starting a regular series with a crossover is definitely a bad idea and I can only hope it won`t harm the start of FNSM.

I'm curious as to what some people have against JMS's Spidey title. I've very much enjoyed his work on it, and have been delighted with what he's done on various story lines, from getting Peter and MJ back together to May's finding out the truth about Peter. And now, his being part of the Avengers and living in the Tower? Very nicely handled, too.

I'll only have to buy 2 extra books in order to get everything PAD writes in the crossover, and an unbroken FNSM? That's not too bad. I've seen worse.

I love you PAD.
I hate crossovers.
I will be with FNSM from issue 4

Only have one problem woth crossovers, and that's when it's just a publicity stunt a la "Hey, look who's in our book!" If the story works (and a) I have the money/time to get it and b)I can keep Brian the 4 year old from decimating the books before I read them) I'm all for it. It makes the world in the book a little more real, y'know? IUt was one of my big continuity arguements with Trek since the 7th season of Next Genereation. Yeah, we're focused in on our heroes, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world just sits on it's thumbs and nothing happens!

As long you really can get a full story with FNSM I'm sticking around. (Sorry, bad pun.) No chance of me grabbing a second book even if Hulk: Destruction is over by then. I'm a DC fanboy with far too many Marvel books of late. I don't mind when they're books or creators I like. Hulk, Hulk: Destruction, FNSM (sensing a pattern here), Defenders (What? Peter's not writing that one!) and possibly Drax the Destroyer (oh joy! Another pattern.)

As I posted at Newsarama, this crossover effectively stopped me from buying the new book. From what I've read about it so far, I've no interest in this storyline. Period. It's a shame, at a time when I'm slowly but surely decreasing what Marvel titles I buy (down to 4 now), PAD had me buying a new title from them. But leave it to Marvel to screw that up.

I hope everything goes well on the new book, I just won't buy it.

Wait...I'm getting two different messages here.

1) PAD will be writing three books in one month for the crossover.

2) The crossover will last three months, with JMS and Hudlin continuing to write their own titles.

Which is it? I see a LOT of people saying "Goodbye FNSM" and citing that they don't want to pick up Hudlin-written books.

For God's sake. Would everyone who's about to jump off a bridge over this crossover just step outside, breathe some fresh air, and start picking up FNSM with #4?

Where's your sense of perspective?

Oh, that's right. We're comics fans.

Actually, despite all the internet naysaying, I don't think there's a lot for you to be worried about, Peter.

It's a number 1, a Spider-Man title, and an important (the first) part of a crossover. A lot of are going to buy it regardless. And sales will probably stay strong through issue 2 and 3, and if this board and Newsarama is any indication, you'll much less of a drop off than usual with issue 4 because the people who are holding off until then will be jumping on. It actually bodes sort of well for the title, from a sales perspective, if you ask me.

That said, I'm still not wasting money on a Hudlin issue. Both his MK SM and BP frustrate me to no end. And while I appriciate a lot of JMS' work (B5, Midnight Nation, Delicate Creatures and even Supreme Power sometimes), I did drop his ASM a while back because it just wasn't doing it for me.

So I'll probably check out 1, and then come back in with 4, and if I like where things are headed after that, stick it back on the pull list. This just made it from a sure buy to an eventual, probable buy.

Peter, anything coming up from you at DC?

--your pal, Hoy

Chip,

Being the completist that I am, I'd prefer to start from the beginning. IMO, this crossover is "preventing" that. I've no interest in starting with #4 after being quite excited to start with #1 with the announced creative team of PAD and 'Ringo. (I know, it sounds petty.....) I despise JMS's handling of ASM (really do not like this announced storyline) and I've never read any of Hudlin's writing.

Personally, I just think this is a piss-poor way to begin what appeared to be a wonderful new book. Marvel's losing more fans in doing this than in gaining them....

If I were still making most of my purchases at a comic shop in person, this might not be a big deal. But I place my titles on a Reserve list and my retailer mails them to me twice a month. It is just too difficult to tell him, "Send me these 3 other Spidey titles, but only for this month so I can read the PAD issues." For this reason, this is NOT a good idea and may turn me off to the new title entirely.

yes, i'll pick it up. No, I'm not thrilled about the crossover, but i'm a Peter David fan and will support his work. If the story is self-contained enough that I'm not "forced" to pick up additional titles/books that I normally would not have, super. if the story is -so- compelling that I feel ..um...compelled (damn, where's my thesaurus) to buy the additional books, well actually that's great too since it means i'm getting a story of that quality.

my biggest fear in reading the Nrama article has to do with the storyline itself. I'm not familiar with what has gone before (the Ezekiel storyline)...but the whole, "peter parker may not have been the first spider-man" (paraphrasing) is somewhat unsettling. This isn't a person who was born with his powers. he received them quite by accident. Dunno. I'm picturing eons of geeky science students being in the "wrong place" at the "wrong time", who just happened to get bit by radioactive spiders in order to accomodate this notion of an eternal 'totem' of 'spidermen'.

I've never thought there was anything 'mystic' about Spider-Man. Wrong place. Wrong time. Spider bite. Ouch. Powers. Story plays out from there.

I'll still pick up the books with as open a mind as possible. Peter hasn't let me down before. Even if this is the first time...well, that's still a pretty damned good ratio.

Actually, I think it's a novel approach to the crossover idea. I remember being infuriated by "X-Cutioner's Song" since it seemed like three different writers with three different ideas of where to take the story. The story seemed a little on the schizophrenic side when Parts 1, 5, and 9 were written by Scott Lobdell, Parts 2, 6, and 10 by PAD, and the rest by Nicieza. This way, at least, we get a cohesive bit of narrative. As I've been following JMS's Amazing and I planned on getting FNSM all along, the only real additional expense is MK Spidey.

My only issue is why Marvel seems to want to ram Reggie Hudlin down our throats, between the Spidey crossover and the upcoming Uncanny X-Men/Black Panther four-parter.

I'm already following JMS Spidey and loving it and was planning to get FNSM too so this isn't a problem for me.

I've wanting to see tighter continuity between the various Spider-Man titles so I'm not going to complain.

I'm curious as to what some people have against JMS's Spidey title.

I'm not sure if it's JMS that's the problem or if Bendis has taken over the Marvel Universe. :)

Kind of like how X-Men related stuff (Age of Apocalypse, Onslaught) took over the Marvel Universe in the 90's.

I saw the House of M checklist. Like four dozen issues, total, over a bunch of different books.

Ok, and here I thought the Age of Massive Crossovers had ended as well.

My big gripe about crossovers is the same as my gripe about the current trend in extended 6-issue-or-so stories; if you're going to tell a tale over a lot of pages, make sure every page is worth it. I want a GREAT story in every book I read. No slacking.

A lot of the crossovers in the 90s didn't do that. So fans boughts lots of issues that weren't very good.

If this doesn't happen in "The Other", great! I hope (and expect) that you, JMS, and Judlin will combine to tell a great story. I'm looking forward to the event.

And honestly, if it doesn't work, I'm still going to stick around, unless you do something absolutely horrible.

I missed you PAD. I'm glad you're back! If for no other reason than now we (PAD's web community) can whine, bi*ch and moan about something other than flag burning, the Pledge of Allegiance and censorship. I was sick to DEATH of those topics.

heh.

BBayliss is going to be in for quite the shock when page 1 of FNSM is a splash page of spidey burning the flag while reciting the Pledge of Allegiance (except the phrase "one nation under God" won't appear because it's going to be censored) :)

Charlie Griefer. The revolution is approaching. Consider yourself "on the list."

;-)

"1) PAD will be writing three books in one month for the crossover.

2) The crossover will last three months, with JMS and Hudlin continuing to write their own titles.

Which is it? I see a LOT of people saying "Goodbye FNSM" and citing that they don't want to pick up Hudlin-written books."

The first is correct. And in the second month, Reggie will be writing MK as well as the other two Spidey books, and in the third month JMS will be writing ASM as well as the other two books.

So basically people are willing to bag my entire new Spider-Man series based on two issues not written by me. Not to go all Darth Vader, but...I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Of course, the kicker is that if FNSM has low sales as a result of people shunning the crossover, the thinking will likely be, "Hunh. Fans weren't interested in reading Peter David on Spider-Man."

PAD

[i]Of course, the kicker is...[/i]

Even worse is that if all of your fans only buy issue #1, then they'll just say that the numbers are due to its being an issue #1.

Of course, the kicker is that if FNSM has low sales as a result of people shunning the crossover, the thinking will likely be, "Hunh. Fans weren't interested in reading Peter David on Spider-Man."

I dunno.

I think the kicker is that Marvel is willing to pull this stunt on a new book that, people are going to buy a) because it's a Spider-Man title, or b) because you're writing it.

So, if somebody goes and buys #1, and then they see that you're not on #2, and they're buying it because your name is on the cover, should it surprise you if they are no longer interested?

Frankly, it's a bad idea full stop. If these were issues 13-15, it wouldn't hurt the book so much, but it's issues 1-3, and that could kill the book.

You should have pushed for your issues to stay in FNSM, even if it meant the story took three months rather than one.

(I won't be getting the crossover BTW)

I agree with the general sentiment here: I was thinking about checking out this series, but I hate crossovers. I'm not interested in the other creators - and comics are way too expensive for me to jump into a concept that I'm not fond of, involving a lot of creators that I'm just not into.

I'm going to skip the first three months and give FNSM a chance at issue #4.

Well, I'd like to think that if people buy #1, but not #s 2 and 3, and then come back for #4, whatever marketing brains at Marvel would be able to attribute that to "lack of PADness". That, to me, would seem the sensible approach to the die-hard PAD-a-maniac: Buy the first three parts of "The Other", as written by PAD, skip the next two issues of FNSM, then pick it up again at #4. You'll have spent about the same amount of money as you would have on just FNSM #s 1-3, be able to read all of the Peter Davidey goodness, and not risk being "tainted" by Hudlin or Straczynski.

Still, no offense to the writer, I would think that FNSM #2-3 would be worth picking up on the merits of Wieringo's art alone.

Charlie, as has been discussed elsewhere, JMS left the whole "totem or accident?" thing open to interpretation. Ezekiel certainly believes Peter was chosen by this "spider-totem", and some others seem to believe/have believed it as well, but the last I saw (forced to stop for a while, as, oddly enough, it's tough to locate comic shops here in San Diego, home of the International Comics Convention), Peter wasn't fully buying into it. (Besides, I like the Avengers thing because I get to watch May flirting with Jarvis, and shutting Wolvie's antisocial habits down cold. Wolvie needs to be told "no" more often.)

That said, I do plan on picking this up, if I can find out when it starts (finally found On COmic Ground last week! Yay!). I'm not familiar with Reggie Hudlin, but I like PAD's writing, and I think he and JMS will mesh well (solid secondary characters, puns - what's not to love?).

Okay. Yes, I can see how this could be inconvenient enough for people with pre-orders that they may just decide to drop the whole thing for the duration.

What I'll probably do is put FNSM on my pull, then try to remember to pick up the other two books the month PAD's writing them. But if either of the non-PAD FNSM issues end up in the First Looks packs, I will probably ask my store not to hold them for me if I dislike the results (and will make such advisories public).

With JMS, I'm liking his scripting, but not really his plotting, which is why I'm not buying ASM. With Hudlin, I'm disliking everything, but it's possible that in a situation where he's required to not screw things up for the next writer he might do okay.

Anyway, it doesn't solve the problem of crossovers being disruptive gimmicks intended to prop up the sales of one of the titles at the expense of readability. A lateral situation like this will at least result in coherent stories...but why not just NOT cross over in that case? Tell the three sides of the story in FNSM in three successive months, borrowing supporting cast as necessary? The way it's going, it's really just "FNSM #1-3 will come out all in one month, then three issues of ASM in one month, and three issues of MKSM in one month, with two months of hiatus in each book. And misleading logos on two of the three issues each month."

I don't avoid crossover-heavy lines because of storyline incoherence. I avoid them because it becomes all-or-nothing. You can't just read one X-Book or one Batbook or one Superbook during times of crossover mania. Making the storylines more coherent doesn't solve this problem, it just makes bending over and taking it a bit more palatable.

I'm with most people here. PAD, your name and Mike's are big draws for me independently, and I was thrilled at the prospect of the combination. My view of new series launches is: it's a chance for a fresh take on the character from a new creative team, more or less independent of the rest of the line, and also a chance for new fans to get in on the ground floor. This stunt makes it feel like FNSM is just a way to publish 50% more of the same crap each month.

What is a new fan going to think, convinced to take a chance on a big #1 and a snazzy Ringo cover, only to find "to be continued in Marvel Knights Spider-Man #XYZ!!!!" He or she will drop it like a rock.

What about old-timers who've gotten jaded about mainstream event-based crap and might have been lured back at the prospect of good fun and great stories from PAD and MW? Who want a NEW kind of Spider-Man? I planned to buy FNSM because I want to read FNSM, not Generic Spider-Man Comics Weekly.

I don't mind trying to introduce readers to different styles, but that's what backup features and preview are for. Hijacking the first three months of a brand new series is just suicide - and it doesn't make for good comics.

This is, quite simply, a terrible idea. I don't imagine you can do anything about it now, but I can't just sit back and let this pass without comment.

"Bending over and taking it?"

Dave, I read and enjoyed your Rants and reviews back in the day on Usenet. Great stuff. But "bending over and taking it" in relation to the decision whether to buy a crossover or not ... this is that perspective thing I was talking about.

"So basically people are willing to bag my entire new Spider-Man series based on two issues not written by me. Not to go all Darth Vader, but...I find your lack of faith disturbing."

Is it so hard to understand the perspective of the jaded reader? I'm not interested in crossovers. At all. I'm so bloody sick of "Events" that I will cartwheel backwards to avoid them.

When FNSM was first announced, there were NO indications it would start out like this. And personally, as someone who finds nothing of interest in either Hudlin's or Straczynski's work, I was hoping this would be the series to provide readable, enjoyable, SELF-CONTAINED Spider-Man stories.

Instead, I get this.

Crossovers, by their very nature, presuppose a larger story that you don't get if you're not reading everything included. I don't want to read Hudlin or JMS, therefore I'm not reading "The Other".

But why not just start at #4? Simple. The mandate for this event is likely the same as all other events: "Change [Insert Character Here] F-O-R-E-V-E-R". It's a fair guess that "The Other" will implement status quo changes all Spider-books will reflect.

So I don't want to read it and I can't work around it. And unless you can guarantee me that issue #4 will be tabula rasa... well, I don't see the point.

That's why I'm bagging FNSM.

"Of course, the kicker is that if FNSM has low sales as a result of people shunning the crossover, the thinking will likely be, "Hunh. Fans weren't interested in reading Peter David on Spider-Man."

*shrug* Then you shouldn't have agreed to the crossover.

I'm curious as to what some people have against JMS's Spidey title.

Can't speak for anyone else but me, but....

It committed the cardinal sin that any book by any creator can make: It didn't make me want to come back for more. Then there's the whole "spider-totem" thing. I mean, hadn't I already read that when Mark Waid called it the "Speed Force" over in Flash? ;-) Similarly, on a broader scope, JMS's work (regardless of medium) has consistently had that same effect: It's never made me want to come back for more. Of course, I also think that the owner of the comic store summed up my reaction to his ASM quite nicely, shortly after JMS began on the book: "Well, at least it doesn't suck quite as bad as it did before."

---------------------------

Now, regarding this "crossover," forgive me if I'm unaware of the details. I'm not a regular reader of Newsarama, so all I have to go by is what I've seen here. So, let me see if I've got it straight:

FNSM #1 - By PAD & Ringo.
FNSM #'s 2 & 3 - Not by PAD, and part of a crossover with the other books, correct?

If so, I'll probably be keeping FNSM on my pull list, but skipping #'s 2 & 3. Why? Well...there's a reason I don't read the other Spidey books. Namely, they do nothing for me. I see no reason why I should believe that the work of creators who don't "grab" me should have any other effect if it's under the banner of another book whose regular writer does consistently entertain and interest me.

Still on the fence on #1 and PAD's other two installments that month. On the one hand, I want to support PAD's work. On the other, do I really want to bother with reading chapters 1-3 when I know I won't be reading chapters 4-9?

It's hilarious to me that people are assuming this crossover will suck dirt and have decided to not buy PAD's new book before it's even out.

Perspective people. Take a deep breath. Relax. Pick up the book at the Comic Book Store. Look through it. If it interests you, great! Buy it. If not, put it back on the shelf. Sheesh. What a bunch of drama queens!

BBayliss: Name one major Marvel crossover in the last five years that was anything more than "average if you're being very very generous."

And then explain to me why people who dislike JMS and/or Hudlin should assume that they'll like a crossover where said writers are participating.

What this crossover thing screams to me is:

1) wait for the collections
2) start reading FNSM three months later after the crossover is done

Diana: I don't think my opinion on crossovers really matters. I may have liked hell, I don't know, Secret Wars II, for example. Does that mean YOU or anyone else should buy it? Nope. Does your opinion that every Marvel crossover in the last 5 years sucked? Not to me.

The point is, why lambaste a project before: 1) it's even come out and you've had a chance to read it and 2) just because it's a crossover (which, according to all press releases *I'VE* seen) it's not. It's 3 mini arcs over 3 different books in a month. You can take 'em or leave 'em. Read one not the other two, whatever.

"So, if somebody goes and buys #1, and then they see that you're not on #2, and they're buying it because your name is on the cover, should it surprise you if they are no longer interested?"

That wouldn't surprise me, no. What surprises me is people who say they're fans of my work who are now planning to skip issue #1 or even THE ENTIRE SERIES despite the fact that my name will be on the cover of every issue but 2 and 3.

"Well, I'd like to think that if people buy #1, but not #s 2 and 3, and then come back for #4, whatever marketing brains at Marvel would be able to attribute that to "lack of PADness"."

Yes, except...no. Here's the potential scenario: Retailers order strongly on issue #1. Issues 2 and 3 then drop like rocks. Retailers promptly start cutting their orders. Issue #4 now sells lower than issue #3. By the time retailers get around to course-correcting, Marvel either cancels the series or assigns a "more popular" writer.

In the meantime, I keep thinking about all the fans who stated that what "Fallen Angel" needed to survive was crossovers with DCU books and I"m just left shaking my head.

PAD

In the meantime, I keep thinking about all the fans who stated that what "Fallen Angel" needed to survive was crossovers with DCU books and I"m just left shaking my head.

PAD

with all due respect Peter, I think most of the requests were not for crossovers of this (FNSM) magnitude, but rather just a guest-appearance in order to place Fallen Angel within the DC universe, and hopefully get the book more visibility. At least, that's how I interpreted it.

Like I stated above, I'll pick up the books to show my support where you're concerned. But to play devil's advocate, I don't entirely disagree with the people who are hemming and hawing. Most people nowadays are watching every dollar. Comics aren't as cheap as they used to be (nothing is, I guess). Every "new" book that's picked up often means one has to get dropped. I don't think you can begrudge people who are concerned about having to pick up an extra 6 (?) books when all they really wanted was to read some PAD spidey (with some kickass 'Ringo artwork accompanying).

From a business perspective, I understand trying to cross-promote and get people to at least try a title they might not otherwise have picked up. But from a reader's perspective, it can feel like I'm being 'forced' to buy a title (or titles) that I ordinarly would not have.

I do hope that you try and see it from 'our' perspective. It's not a lack of support for you. Picking up a new PAD written Spidey (a PAD written anything, for that matter), is a no-brainer for me. Picking up a new PAD written Spidey that's going to try and squeeze a few extra bucks out of my pocket by crossing over into other titles with other writers doesn't stop me from buying...but I'm admittedly less enthusiastic :\

It should be expected that comic fans are at least a little obsessive about their hobby. So, there will always be an all-or-nothing mentality. If I only want 3 parts of a 9 part crossover, then I'd really rather not bother. If I don't want the first 3 issues of a new series that otherwise interests me, then my interest has waned to the point that I may not pick it up at all. Having 2 of the first 3 issues of a series be fill-ins is not a smart way to launch a series that is riding on the popularity of its creators.

I'm adding my name to the list of people who think it's unreasonable for fans to swear off FNSM just because of the crossover with two other writers taking place in #2 and 3. If you buy for the writer, buy the pieces you like and ignore those you don't. If you get your comics through a subscription service, it may be a little more difficult to coordinate things, but not impossible (Anyone use Previews? Probably best bet.). If you follow books by full runs rather than just personal tastes, I'm sorry, that's outmoded thinking (or is it OCD?--you decide:-D). Nobody's forcing you to buy the parts of the crossover not written by PAD but you.

I do think it would've been a better plan, seeing how this is really three separate but interlocking stories by three different writers, to have each title carry their own story. The problem with coordinating things such as the current plan indicates is that there are people who read comics with a completist mentality, that if they miss one issue because it's not what they want, it's the end of the world, and why should they collect that book at all, so why start?

As for why I don't like JMS' ASM personally--he offended me with his sensibilities. The animal totem idea is so hokey, even though the first arc was VERY good (Vs. Morlun, etc.). Contrary to what people are posting on here, I think it's been shown quite conclusively that Peter's origin IS now mystical in nature, as shown by the empirical evidence of the nature of the beings who've come after him since--Morlun, Shathra, et al. And then, just when I thought the totem-type stories had run their course and JMS would go for straighter Spidey stories--poof, "Sins Past" comes along and demolishes my faith in JMS as a writer because of its inane blend of completely slipshod continuity, distasteful realism (blatant textual, not subtextual, sexual jealousy vis-a-vis Peter & Norman), and bad sci-fi cliches (rapidly aging ninja kids). JMS has this pattern of taking past events and putting his own salacious and unnecessary twists on said events (those being the origin of Spidey and the death of Gwen Stacy--each with the happenstance of said events drained away and replaced by conspiracy and design). And then, on his newsgroup, he berated fans in a way I thought completely unprofessional, no matter if their commentaries were wrongheaded or insightful. (Would you ever catch Stephen King taking potshots at his fans?) I got turned off to the man's writing for the last time with "Sins" making me so angry, for many reasons, I quit ASM and haven't looked back. Never in my many years of reading comics have I been that outright offended (I think I know now how some people must've felt during the Clone Saga...which I personally loved). I thought JMS, who I'm told did great things in his own universes (B5), would be able to do something groundbreaking without treading on the past so brazenly. To me, the work is cliche and nothing special, in plot and script, and with "Sins," offensive for a multitude of reasons.

So, that's me. But if PAD likes the idea behind this new crossover well enough to go along with it and write a piece of it, then his word makes me consider the remote possibility of picking up more than just his own 3-parter in October.

~G.

"If you follow books by full runs rather than just personal tastes, I'm sorry, that's outmoded thinking..."

The creative team could have just teamed up on Spectacular Spider-man after Jenkins left. But this new Spidey title was supposed to be PAD & Ringo's "fun" Spidey book. How do you differentiate a title from its brethren when the writers of the 2nd and 3rd issues are Straczinski and Hudlin? So, it becomes just another Spidey title, for 3 months at least.

Compare the interest in All-Star Superman to what it would have been if Morrison and Quitely had instead contracted to do 12 issues between the 3 Superman titles, crossing over with Verheiden and Rucka issues.

Just for the record, I'd probably be a lot more concerned about the mixed reactions if I thought that the internet was remotely representative of the buying public at large.

I mean, fans bitched incessantly about Bruce Jones' Hulk while sales continued to go up and up. The sales eventually went down (as all things that go up always do) but on-line fans were crabbing about it for several years before it had a sales impact. And lo, the on-line fans kept saying, "Bring back PAD." Which Marvel did. And what was the sales reaction? Bruce Jones numbers or lower. Certainly not measurably higher.

All I can tell you is that, to this observer, giving fans what they want is no guarantee of success, while that which the fans complain about the most, sells the best. Which means this could be a potential spectacular Spider-hit. Or course, with my luck, this'll be the exception...

PAD

PAD, quick q. Do you have any idea if Bendis is going to add an issue of the Pulse into this Spidey-event?

Just for the record, I'd probably be a lot more concerned about the mixed reactions if I thought that the internet was remotely representative of the buying public at large.

(snip)

PAD

I don't disagree with that at all. The reaction I've seen on newsarama and one other comic forum regarding Liefeld on 2 issues of Teen Titans has been overwhelmingly negative...probably in the neighborhood of 90%/10% (hate it/don't hate it), if not higher. But for whatever bizarre reason, I'm sure it will outsell all previous issues of the current series.

and FWIW, I'm sorry (and a bit surprised) to hear that the Hulk numbers haven't eclipsed the numbers on Jones' run. Nothing against Mr. Jones, but I didn't care for his Hulk. I continue to be thrilled that you're back on the title. Guess I thought there would be a more significant # of other people out there who felt the same way.

Curious now that I'm thinking about it. I think that right now, DC is doing some amazing things. That sentiment also seems to be echoed on some online forums. Do you think the Hulk figures might be more due to people moving from Marvel books to DC books in general than they do Bruce Jones Hulk vs PAD Hulk?

I think the reason a lot of people are skittish about a Spider-Crossover is that they fear a return to the Spidey-books of the 90s, where they might as well have made the series a weekly book called "The Web of Peter Parker: The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Spider-Man Unlimited." After "Maximum Carnage" it became increasingly difficult to follow one or two Spider-books while ignoring the others.

Currently, the Spider-books are fairly self-contained. One can read Amazing from month-to-month without needing to know what happened in MK Spidey. I think it's a fear that the book will return to it's multi-issue semiweekly megaseries ways that might have some people's panties in a bunch.

Personally, my only added expense will be 3 issues of MK. Compared to keeping up with "House of M" or "Countdown to Infinite Crisis", the cost of "The Other" is chicken feed (if chicken feed costs between nine and eighteen bucks these days).

As for "Fallen Angel", personally I was in the "This should be a Vertigo book" camp. Seriously, the lady who used to live next door to me would buy every and any Vertigo book just because of the indica in the corner. While it might not be as true as it was in the days when Sandman was in its heyday, there are still people who tend to buy things based merely on the brand name. I think the ones who wanted tons of DC crossovers really wanted Lee to "lose the dye job" and wear an "S" on her chest.

"Contrary to what people are posting on here, I think it's been shown quite conclusively that Peter's origin IS now mystical in nature, as shown by the empirical evidence of the nature of the beings who've come after him since--Morlun, Shathra, et al."

Actually, Gary (may I call you Gary?), I think that has to do with other beings buying into Ezekiel's notion, more than whether or not it's true. IIRC, the whole Shathra thing had to do with Peter using Doc Strange to help with something or other, and this "wasp-totem" spotting him and thinking, due to its own nature, that the "spider-totem" was the only possible explanation (kind of like Ezekiel's assumption, based on his own experiences). It still could have been total accident, and a series of egregious assumptions on the parts of various mystic entities...

...not that people in the real world ever make egregious assumptions about things based on their own limited experiences, right? :-)

PAD:

I was a huge Marvel fanboy 15 years ago. I had a total all-or-nothing approach, comparable to what others here are talking about. I had to buy Speedball to make sure there was no essential canon that would I miss, or else I couldn't possibly enjoy the latest issue of Darkhawk, not that I enjoyed either series. I widdled it down to Spidey books and X-books, and eventually just cut off comics entirely. I felt like that some of the assorted folk writing them had no more right to determine canon than, say, me. Present company excluded by leaps and bounds.

Ten years later, I cautiously came back to the fold, focusing on authors and quality stories as opposed to characters and canon. I started off mainly reading closed stories, Vertigo type stuff, but will go for the occasional author run on a series that I felt I could 100% enjoy without reading anything but that series. I think of Alan Moore as the best example of being able to write within canon, but not make me feel like I'm missing anything. Looking at books like the Swamp Thing run, even with an issue dealing with Crisis mishigas thrown into the mix, you never feel like you're missing anything by only reading that series. The problem is, growing up an all-or-nothing fanboy, even if I don't care now, part of me feels like I'm missing something important when a crossover is going on. For me, the focus right now is all about finding a given author and totally sticking with the closed story.

So, as a fan of yours both in the past and present, I would jump at the idea of adding a run of Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man written by you to my elitist trade paperback shelf. However, knowing that your run is complicated by a crossover with other books, it's a huge turnoff. The Morrison run on X-Men is a great example of something I like, since even though it's dealing with the most crossover-happy set of characters ever, it's an insular story by a quality writer. The Morrison run on JLA, however, fails in the same regard by having a few too many crossover problems. For me, this is mostly about some snobbist purity in only wanting to have to read stuff by quality authors. But there's also the completist in there, who doesn't know if he would enjoy a series if he skipped issues #2 and 3. So, whether or not to get involved becomes a conundrum.

In essence, comics for me now are 100% about the author, with the characters and canon coming second. So, any "series" involving an author in whom I have no interest become much less appealing. Others have said variants on all this, but... I felt like talking.

Best,
Josh

Jonathan--

Point well taken. I guess I'm laboring under the unwritten rule that says "If it waddles like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it's a duck." In other words, why are these cosmic entities after Peter? They obviously operate at some level beyond our ken, whether result of heightened intellect or instinct that should enable them to pick out who among humanity is possessed of such totemistic abilities, i.e. said forces have some kind of built-in detector that leads them right to Spidey--their very own variant of spider-sense. Granted that idea, the chances are substantially heightened that Peter IS what those forces out to destroy him think he is, and substantially lessened that he isn't. Sounds logical to me, but it may not to you.

I guess now the operative question is, regardless of why these things are chasing Peter, is he supposed to be "the one" or is Peter just some schmuck who inadvertently inherited said spider-abilities? Which is where "The Other" probably comes in.

Hmm, maybe a better title for the story would be "The Chosen One"...

~G.

What brought me to Spider-Man was the movies and the news that JMS brought Peter and Mary Jane back together. I decided to start with the trade paperbacks and because I enjoyed that Spider-Man so much, I stayed with it.

Because I like your work, PAD, I will get a step further and buy FNSM from the beginning but I won`t support these crossover gimmicks Marvel is starting again. Having one JMS issue among FNSM is even fine with me, I guess it will appear in the trades I am still buying later. I don`t know Hudlin`s work but, ok, even if there is one issue I am not fond of, I can live with that.

I am subscribing my comics and it just makes it easier if I am just sticking with FNSM instead of telling him to skip the Hudlin issue. With my luck, he would mess it up and skip something else instead.

If I will stay with FNSM in the long run will also depend on it how stand alone the series will be afterwards. If I will get the feeling that I can`t enjoy the series on its own, I will drop it.

Concerning Fallen Angel: I am one of the fans who have zero interest in the DC universe and I read Fallen Angel because it stands on its own. I most definitely don`t want that to change!

Some thoughts:

I was one of the readers who quit buying the Bruce Jones Hulk, and asked for PAD back. When PAD came back, his first story was a five parter that included lots of characters acting out of character, because they weren't really those characters, just simulacra. Not a strong start, not entertaining, and after spending more than $10 for a story that I liked extremely little of, I'm not willing to continue.

re: Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man - bad name for a book being launched with a batch of crossovers. It definitely doesn't sound new (or returning) reader friendly.

PAD, I notice a lot of people expressing concern about JMS elements entering your book, which led me to wonder... what did you think of Sins Past? Specifically, Gwen Stacy shacking up with Norman Osborn?

Also, what's it like working with JMS again, this time in a medium you have more experience in?

Three PAD Spider-Man books in one month is awesome. Two months without a PAD Spider-Man book, not so great. I will most likely get the whole crossover anyway.

I get that it will be from three different points of view, and I think that is pretty cool, but is there allot of collaboration/limitations on the story or was is more of a pass the torch thing. Will you have anything to do with the books after your books?

Looking forward to it.

Honestly, that is such a slap in the face.

PAD, you pretend that it's *our* fault for not liking the idea and I know, I deep down know, you realize it's a crummy way to begin a series.

Just awful.

"Nothing against Mr. Jones, but I didn't care for his Hulk. I continue to be thrilled that you're back on the title. Guess I thought there would be a more significant # of other people out there who felt the same way."

On the net, yes. In the "real" world, not so much.

"Curious now that I'm thinking about it. I think that right now, DC is doing some amazing things. That sentiment also seems to be echoed on some online forums. Do you think the Hulk figures might be more due to people moving from Marvel books to DC books in general than they do Bruce Jones Hulk vs PAD Hulk?"

Dunno. What I do know is that the price went up .75 cents, so although our numbers are the same, we're still bringing in more money. But people only seem to focus on the units sold.

"Honestly, that is such a slap in the face."

Huh? What? Where? Who did I slap? Considering I'm seeing fan after fan announcing that they're bailing without having read word one, I think I'm being consistently civil.

"PAD, you pretend that it's *our* fault for not liking the idea and I know, I deep down know, you realize it's a crummy way to begin a series."

I wasn't aware I was assigning blame. For that matter, I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about. Whose "fault" are your opinions supposed to be other than your own? I don't think it's MY fault if some people don't like the idea. Frankly, I don't know what definition of the word "fault" applies to any of this.

"A crummy way to begin a series?" And you know that I know this because you've got a little office set up in my head or something? Okay, now you're just pissing me off. How about this for a crummy way to begin a series: Retailers lowball their numbers, just as they did on "Hulk," just as they did on "Madrox." Fans of ASM figure they can pass on it because they're already reading the "main" Spider-Man title. Fans of ASM and MKSM figure they're already reading two Spidey books, and that's enough, especially since it's only being written by Peter David and not some hot new writer. Boom, swish. Book debuts maybe, maybe in the top fifty, and then quickly drops out of it. And while on-line fans loudly proclaim that it's the best written Spidey book out there and that they hate ASM, ASM's sales continue strong while FNSM is roundly ignored. End of book, and it's a cold day in hell before Marvel gives me any major assignments again.

So how about you excuse the hell out of me for not exactly trusting normal ordering patterns to be supportive of either me or my work. I am sick to freaking God of reviews that say, "Wow, this is some of Peter David's best work ever; too bad no one's reading it." I've played it your way for years now and it's gotten me acclaimed critically and kicked in the teeth sales wise. So don't you DARE be telling me what I believe deep down. I have no idea what's going to work in terms of getting more people to sample my work, but I sure know what hasn't been working: Simple quality.

So if this crossover thing establishes FNSM as a book that should be considered as integral to the saga of Spider-Man as the other books, I say "great." And if it gets people who wouldn't give my work the time of day to read a story with my name on it and say, "Hey, I gotta check out his Spidey title," also great. And if it turns off people who are already fans of mine and feel ill-used, I'm sorry about that, but the harsh fact is that there simply aren't enough of you to count on making my work a marketplace success. So we do what we gotta do, and at this point I'm perfectly willing to give this a try.

And don't you EVER tell me that you know what I'm thinking, as if I'm just blowing smoke up your ass. Because THAT, sir, is a genuine slap in the face.

PAD

Well, here's one person who is actually now buying comics again now that Peter's back on the Hulk (ok, so it was actually the return of Hal Jordan that got me back in the comic shop, but I'm still buying the Hulk, dammit).

And by the by, I thought "Dear Tricia" was fantastic.

The self-pity wears thin, Mr. David. You're not the only writer out there whose sales are disproportionate to the quality of his writing. Your series aren't the only critical darlings axed because the zombies of the mainstream were too busy reading brainless commercial tripe.

I know it's somewhat naive of me to expect professionals to deprioritize the Almighty Dollar - God knows it's the only language Marvel's administration speaks - but it's still disappointing to see a writer choose sales over the readers who've stuck by him for years.

Peter David: "What surprises me is people who say they're fans of my work who are now planning to skip issue #1 or even THE ENTIRE SERIES despite the fact that my name will be on the cover of every issue but 2 and 3."

I wouldn't skip the entire series, but the reason I might skip #1 is that I'm not particularly inclined to just buy part 1 of 12. I know I can use the money I would have used to buy #2 and #3 to buy the relevant ASM and MKSM issues that month, but I also don't feel inclined to just read parts 1, 2, and 3 of 12 without reading the resolution. Better to just skip the whole thing and start fresh with #4. If the crossover thing turns out to be worth reading people will talk it up and I will look for the collections.

"The self-pity wears thin, Mr. David."

I was merely stating cold, hard fact based on current ordering practices. Fan condemnation of announced projects before a single word is read or image is drawn, however, does tend to wear thin. But what can one do?

"You're not the only writer out there whose sales are disproportionate to the quality of his writing."

Didn't say I was.

"Your series aren't the only critical darlings axed because the zombies of the mainstream were too busy reading brainless commercial tripe."

Didn't say they were.

"I know it's somewhat naive of me to expect professionals to deprioritize the Almighty Dollar - God knows it's the only language Marvel's administration speaks - but it's still disappointing to see a writer choose sales over the readers who've stuck by him for years."

And I could just as easily say that readers choose to prioritize the Almighty Dollar over a writer whose work they've enjoyed, especially when readers make no secret of announcing they'll stop reading a comic of mine if the price goes up by one almighty dollar. Except I didn't say that. Then again, I didn't say any of the other stuff you appear to believe I said, so you have to appreciate the consistency if nothing else.

It does take some odd kind of logic, though, to believe that "readers" and "sales" must somehow be mutually exclusive. What, if I willingly participate in a storytelling exercise that could potentially garner me some new readers (plus, God forbid, might actually be fun for me since I get to work with other writers whose work Ilike), I've failed to live up to your expectations of me?

Here's a newsflash: One of the major reasons I wrote the "Spike" one shot was to get my name in front of the Buffy fans who never heard of me, but might now become interested in other projects of mine such as "Fallen Angel." Does that lower me in your eyes somehow? Are my motives insufficiently pure for you?

Please. I've sacrificed nothing and no one, and prioritized no one thing over another. I'm simply being open to an undertaking that might help keep my career going. That's not self-pity; that's just reality. And if you've got problems with reality, then that's your look-out, not mine.

PAD

Just keep doing what you're doing, PAD. We'll be there. I just added Hulk, waiting for new Fallen Angel and will sure as hell pick up Spidey (haven't since the clone thing).

P.S. Any comments on the portrayal of Genis in New Thunderbolts? It's a nicely written book, but I'm fond of the direction the character is going.

Take a look across the street, DC's ENTIRE LINE will be a 'crossover' for the next six months, with most titles not directly revealing how they are actually connected.
Nightwing has a been crossover logo, but nobody in the industry or outside of it can tell you how it relates to anything.
I'm not going to lose any sleep over a 3 part PAD story launch month, and 2 issues of 'lesser talent working on PAD's book'-I survived a crappy larsen aquaman and a lackluster hulk reboot.

I think I can handle 2 non-PAD issues of FNSM, if anything it might drive home a few points.

PAD:

1) Allow me to add my voice to those on this posting who have become completely allergic to crossovers (as well as "Event" comics, of which this is not an example). Loved them back in the days of Stan and Rascally Roy. But having been burnt so many times in the last 25 years, I now avoid them like the plague. Crossovers and Event-crossovers become one more reason for me to consider dropping a title.

2) Your bitterness over the fate of FALLEN ANGEL is palbable. I am very sorry that this title did not achieve success when you (and many critics) feel it represented some of your best work. But perhaps the reason I dropped the book after 4 issues is also the reason for it's lack of sales success: It was just not what I have come to expect when I pick up a comic written by Peter David. I associate your name in comics (including those based upon other media) with thorough knowledge of a pre-existing character and their universe, clever and witty dialogue and a wonderful sense of humor. None of these existed in the issues of FA that I read, which, I think, was your deliberate intention. I was faced with a bunch of new characters, all of whom I found unsympathetic. I just decided it was not "my cup of tea", and stopped purchasing it. Perhaps I did, indeed, miss one of your best works and will come to regret it if I ever read a collection, but I believe that my reasoning may be more widespread. It is the same reason that, for example, I have yet to see either SCHINDLER'S LIST or SAVING PRIVATE RYAN. Both works are said to be among the director's finest, but they are just not what I associate with Steven Spielberg AND they are not the type of film I usually enjoy. (In fact, the only reason I will someday see them is because they are works by Spielberg.)

LL

"But perhaps the reason I dropped the book after 4 issues is also the reason for it's lack of sales success: It was just not what I have come to expect when I pick up a comic written by Peter David. I associate your name in comics (including those based upon other media) with thorough knowledge of a pre-existing character and their universe, clever and witty dialogue and a wonderful sense of humor."

Fair enough. However, readers have this funny habit when they believe they know what to associate a particular writer with: Sooner or later they get bored and wander away. My intention with "Fallen Angel" was to confound expectations because, to paraphrase Woody Allen, A writing career is like a shark. You have to keep moving or you're dead.

My frustration doesn't stem from people who tried it and didn't like it. You can't please everybody. My frustration stems from lack of awareness. I've mentioned it before, but I'll say it again: At last year's San Diego Con, I had a steady stream of people coming up to me at signings telling me they read everything I write. And I would say to them, "Do you read 'Fallen Angel?' And I kept count: Nine out of ten people stared at me blankly and said, "What's that?" The book had been coming out for a year and they'd never heard of it. And I'll wager they couldn't even find it on the stands because their retailers ordered no store copies. THAT'S where the frustration comes from.

PAD

See, Lon, this is something else that has been pointed up in previous discussions of comicdom. For every fan who says, "Hey, you're just rehashing old stuff - how about something new?", there's at least one who feels as you do - that they associate a certain product with a certain writer, and are disappointed if that writer fails to produce what is expected.

Personally, I understand PAD's annoyance here. He's trying to make a living doing what he loves. There's no sign that the quality of his work is going to suffer for what some deem a "gimmick". And, perhaps most importantly, this isn't going to be one of those year-long megacrossovers, where to get the whole story you have to buy every single title the publisher puts out. No, the extra expense here is a grand total of two issues of two other titles (that is to say, four books) about the same character. If that's still too steep for you, start with #4, and avoid the whole thing. My POV is that a movie will run me $10 per person going (generally meaning I'm shelling out $20-30 for a two-hour one-time experience), getting HBO on my cable would run me, with the special offer they've got now, $10/month for six months (and going up after that) - hell, even a medium-size caramel frappuchino down at the Starbucks will set me back $5. The cost of these extra comics, IIRC (been a while since I bought, but I seem to recall the cover price being around $3), should come to about $12 and tax, spread over two months - for something I can enjoy as often as I'd like.

What's all the bitching about? Gads, you'd think folks here were being required to take out a second mortgage just to catch the beginning of a title!!

My one and only comment on this matter: What a bunch of bitchy cheapskates... with fans like these, who needs X-Ray?

You've got my support, PAD.

StaR

At last year's San Diego Con,

Speaking of, PAD, will you be at this year's Comic-Con?

I thought I spotted your name on something for Thursday, but I'd have to go back and check. Plus, I'd need to confirm its you anyways - with a name like "Peter David", it isn't impossible for it to be somebody else. :)

Oh, I'm going to get beat down, but you know, I happen to like the JMS stuff on ASM; it probably helps that while I've read comics for years, I've only been reading Spiderman for roughly the last five years. For example, the whole Gwen Stacy story isn't something I consider sacred, as it happened, what, 25 years ago? Unless I'm mistaken, what PAD's doing with this initial-writer-crossover-thing-to-start-a-new-book-event is something new, so maybe, just maybe, it'll be the next best thing.

And really folks, being an artist and desiring to make money doing something you love aren't mutually exclusive or bad. Jumping to conclusions based on sketchy information about a work that's not even printed yet on the other hand...

"what did you think of Sins Past? Specifically, Gwen Stacy shacking up with Norman Osborn?"

Hmm... wrong question, huh? :)

Well, since I'm alreading reading AMSM and MKSM, I will definitely be reading this crossover. As for JMS, I am a big fan. Supreme Power is great and his Spidey is as good if not better than any of the others. I am just as big a fan of PAD, so with those two working together on a crossover, I can certainly be counted in. As far as MKSpidey, while Hudlin's dialogue is not very strong, the book itself is a fun read in its own lighthearted way. Plus, he is bringing back the emphasis on the scientific mind of Peter which has been put on the backburner for so long. I think characters like Spidey are more suited to his style as opposed to characters with serious personalities like Black Panther (though I read his BP because I like the character and the story is interesting).

Well, for what it's worth (and as you detailed, internet sentiments don't necessarily correlate to sales figures at all; so I suppose this is worth three comic book sales), I'll be buying your three Spider-Man [Here's your "beatdown", Jason - learn how to spell the name!!! ;)] issues, PAD. I can see why some people are dreading the thought of a crossover - some of them have been godawful and largely pointless - but I'm not ruling out the possibility of buying the other issues, either. I'll wait and see if there's more I want to learn after your story or if I'm satisfied with just reading your three-parter, and if the other stories look decent - when they come out (a novel concept, apparently ...).

I can see why doing this at the very start of the series concerns some people; but your reasoning about why this could attract extra readers, from the beginning of the title, also makes sense. And if I've ever wondered if I was compulsive - well, _I_'ve never felt that missing one or two issues in a series meant that I couldn't buy ANYTHING from that series - sheesh. This idea is kind of like "Kraven's Last Hunt," actually - one story carried over all of the Spider titles - for six issues, in that case - all written by J.M. DeMatteis (and followed, iirc, by a three-part story across the titles by Ann Nocenti). Maybe people should assume that this could be of that quality rather than automatically lumping it in with the worst of crossover dreck.

Frankly, with the politics and problems of getting and maintaining comics titles in this age, combined with your great success in novels - your own concepts, Star Trek, film novelizations - I won't blame you, PAD, if someday you decide this industry just isn't worth the aggrivation anymore.

Happily reading 'til you reach that point,
Luke Walsh

"Sins Past." Huh. How to put this...

I thought the story was well-written, as I would expect of Joe. Well put together, pretty powerful. If you're going to do it, then you darn well better to a hell of a job with it, and Joe did that.

Personally, I wouldn't have done it. My reasoning would have been, who am I writing this story for? The long time fans? They'll just get pissed off. What's to be gained by soiling Gwen's memory? The more recent fans? They don't know the original Gwen, don't know her history with Peter. So they lack any real context for the story as a whole, and it loses its impact.

There's times I've written stories that I knew would piss people off. The story in which the Hulk refuses to give Jim Wilson a blood transfusion and he dies of AIDS comes to mind. Heck, I knew even "Tempest Fugit" would put some people off because it was so different from anything I'd done on my previous run. But I felt strongly about it and went ahead, and you just deal with the fallout. In this case, Joe obviously felt strongly enough about this story to withstand the Gwen-lover brickbats. If he felt that strongly about it, then he was right to write it.

PAD

As for JMS, I am a big fan. Supreme Power is great and his Spidey is as good if not better than any of the others.

I like JMS on his own creations, like Supreme Power and Midnight Nation... but sometimes when he does established characters like Spidey, it feels like he's trying shoehorn ideas in that don't quite fit the character.

The more recent fans? They don't know the original Gwen, don't know her history with Peter. So they lack any real context for the story as a whole, and it loses its impact.

This is how I felt. I didn't really see what it added to the mythos, and to a lot of us, Gwen Stacy represent the "age of innocence".

Interestingly, JMS recently revealed that his original idea was for the kids to be the product of Gwen's first time with Peter, and that she simply kept the pregnancy secret from him. But Marvel nixed that. I can understand why they wouldn't want Peter to have kids... but gosh, anything would have been better than Norman Osborn. I mean, he's always come across as so repulsive and creepy, I just can't buy Gwen ever being attracted to him.

Damn, people catch the smallest things around here. Ok, I'll take my beating and just say "Spidey" from here on out...

I was one of the folks who was initially pretty ticked to hear about the crossover. I'm starting to soften on it. But I never doubted for a second that it would be a HUGE boon for sales. And a hit PAD comic would mean other PAD comics, which is a good thing... if one likes comics by PAD (as I do).

Damn, people catch the smallest things around here. Ok, I'll take my beating and just say "Spidey" from here on out...

There should be a comma between 'say,' and, 'Spidey.'

To me, "Sins Past" is one of the most powerful comic stories I have ever read. It is very dramatic and very touching. I also think, it is very believable. I could understand the motivations so well, this is what made the story moving and tragic.

I got the trade paperback with that story after I already read a lot of comments. Maybe I have some advantage here because I started reading JMS story without the emotional attachments long term Spider-Man fans have. From reading the story, I saw a woman who was very sensitive, very likeable and very vulnerable who made a mistake that is unfortunately not uncommon. She most definitely was not a fallen saint and also not someone JMS turned into a "slut" or "whore" (which are comments I have actually seen). I also think that after she made her mistake, she picked herself up and has shown a remarkable amount of strength dealing with it and also with the resulting responsibilities.

I don`t like the idea of seeing Gwen as a kind of innocent saint. JMS turned her into a three dimensional character I find much more interesting and I am definitely hoping that JMS will continue this storyline.

BBayliss....

It's hilarious to me that people are assuming this crossover will suck dirt and have decided to not buy PAD's new book before it's even out.

Re: My expectations of the crossover's quality

I already know without a shadow of a doubt that the work of the other writers involved doesn't interest or entertain me. Never has...doubt it ever will. With that in mind, I don't see why I should expect any different from their contributions to this story.

----------------------------
PAD....

That wouldn't surprise me, no. What surprises me is people who say they're fans of my work who are now planning to skip issue #1 or even THE ENTIRE SERIES despite the fact that my name will be on the cover of every issue but 2 and 3.

As stated earlier, I just don't see the point in buying/reading chapter 1 (or chapters 1-3) when I know I won't be buying/reading chapters 4-9. I don't make a habit of ripping out the final two-thirds of a novel before I sit down to start reading. I don't make a habit of taping the first third of a tv show and ignoring the rest.

However, also as I stated earlier, I'm still on the fence about FNSM #1 (and, for that matter, your other two entries that month). The PAD completist in me may indeed win out. 'Course, if it does, I'll probably never actually read those issues. For the reason, see the paragraph above. I can say with certainty that I won't be picking up FNSM #'s 2 & 3. But then, even as a die-hard Titans fan, I won't be picking up the two Liefeld issues, either. (I'd rather have gaps in my collection than support Liefeld with even a penny of my money.)

Yes, except...no. Here's the potential scenario: Retailers order strongly on issue #1. Issues 2 and 3 then drop like rocks. Retailers promptly start cutting their orders. Issue #4 now sells lower than issue #3. By the time retailers get around to course-correcting, Marvel either cancels the series or assigns a "more popular" writer.

Well, FNSM is already on my pull list at the store. I don't plan on removing it. But, I will be putting #'s 2 & 3 back on the shelf.

And, for what little it's worth...who's the editor of FNSM and does Marvel editorial & managerial staff still attribute more weight to a snail-mail letter or does an e-mail now carry equal weight? (As I've understood it, for quite some time, even a tiny extra bit of credibility was given to a snail-mail letter, as the writer took the time to write it, address it, put a stamp on it and mail it, as opposed to the relative instant ease of an e-mail.) It may not count for much in the big picture, but I'll gladly contact the editor and Quesada in either format (or both) to explain to them why they won't be getting my few bucks for those issues.

From reading the story, I saw a woman who was very sensitive, very likeable and very vulnerable who made a mistake that is unfortunately not uncommon.

Having sex with her best friend's dad? Geez, I'd hope that's not TOO common...

Ultimately, what made it a bad story in my eyes is who the characters are. Norman Osborn had been well-documented (even by those who didn't know him as the Goblin) as a mean, greedy, ruthless person... with a bad haircut to boot. Imagine Dick Cheney as a supervillain (okay, maybe you don't have to imagine). Based on Gwen's character, her hopping in the sack with him, even as a "mistake" is just ultra-far-fetched. Hopping in the sack with Harry while she was in a relationship with Peter would be a mistake. Hopping in the sack with Norman is just a whole 'nother Jerry Springer level.

"...it's still disappointing to see a writer choose sales over the readers who've stuck by him for years."

How are they going to stick by him if he isn't given any titles to write for his fans to follow?

Gimmicks, "events", and superstar creators are a necessary evil to keep a book's numbers up. A new #1 Spidey title will obviously fare better than most, but unforunately, PAD doesn't have the celebrity status (which comes from where exactly, anyway? Wizard?) to ensure a hit that someone like Millar had for his MKSM launch.

1
I know that internet reaction doesn't equal sales, But you make us sound like fair weather friends for not wanting to pick up books by writers we don't enjoy.
I understand starting a new book as a part of a crossover is supposed to get the guys already buying the other two books to buy yours too.
Good job.
But we've had time to decide whether we like their Spidy books or not.
Do you read books buy authors you don't like because you don't want to be one of those guys who "decide they don't like a story before it's written"?
So I'm sorry if sales figures drop for 2 and 3 (like we have that kind of influence or numbers), But I don't want to read a Spidy comic by either of the other writers.
I will look out for the other books that month written by you. Hope ASM is on schedule.
I'm sure the main reason Marvels stayed away from crossovers the last few years has been the fact they couldn't even keep one book out on time to match another books ship date.
Wasn't there supposed to be an Exiles/X-Men crossover that ended up being printed all in one title for that reason?
On a related note, Isn't Marvel Knights a different universe from (what's left of) Marvels main universe?
They do have their own FF.
Is MK Spidy in the Avengers?
And how the heck does he explain Peter, MJ, and his aunt living at Avengers HQ?
I could go on and on with questions about how Marvel does or doesn't make sense anymore, But I guess I should just stop and say how much I was looking forward to you Spidy book ( with Mark, his was one of the last good runs on Spidy. with Todd Dezago.), Enjoy the Hulk and am fallowing Fallen Angel to IDW.

"I know that internet reaction doesn't equal sales, But you make us sound like fair weather friends for not wanting to pick up books by writers we don't enjoy."

Well, first of all, fans ARE fair weather friends. I have no illusions that fans are loyal to me. Fans are loyal to my ability to entertain them, period. If fans cease liking my work, they're not going to say, "But I really need to keep picking up his books because he needs financial support." That's ridiculous. They'll instead move on to someone who DOES entertain them. And that's fine. I have no problems with that.

Believe me, I know some pros who HAVE been under the impression that fans have personal loyalty to them. It's always a sad sight to see when they're inevitably disillusioned.

My belief is that pros owe fans their best effort to entertain, and fans owe pros nothing. I think that's a fairly accurate and sane way to view the world.

That said, I've asked no fans to buy books by writers they don't like. All I said was (a) perhaps if they like the storyline as presented in my first three issues, they might be interested in sticking with it to see what happens and (b) if enough people refuse to buy FNSM based purely on a decision to avoid the entire storyline, the low sales would likely be ascribed not to the crossover, but to a lack of interest of me as the writer. Now obviously I can't help how you view my sentiments on it. I'm simply stating my opinion. What with this being my blog and all, that doesn't seem an unreasonable thing to do. How you react is entirely your lookout.

PAD

PAD:

Doesn't it really depend on your definition of loyality in this case? I really have no interest in Spider-man and therefore probably will have a wait-and-see attitude towards FNS-M.

BUT.

I will trumpet how great of a writer (and great person, for that matter, based on the insights I've been given on this here website) I think you are to any and all who will listen. Is that not a type of loyalty to you?

Well, first of all, fans ARE fair weather friends. I have no illusions that fans are loyal to me.

I'm not sure that's entirely fair. While it's true that no one is going to continue buying a book forever if it's no longer entertaining (just as someone wouldn't continue being your friend forever if you ceased being nice), your fans will pick up a book that they wouldn't otherwise pick up (say from an unknown company, or in black and white, or higher priced), just because you're writing it. And your fans will also stick with a book for longer, even if they're not wild about it, in faith that it will get better, simply because you're writing it.

Does everyone do that? No, but a lot of us do, perhaps more than you realize, and I think that's the definition of a fan. And if you think all writers get that kind of consideration, you're wrong. I'd certainly count that as loyalty.

A little crossover won't scare this Spidey fan away.

As long as a) Peter Parker remains Spider-Man, accept no substitutes and b) Pete and MJ stay married, I'm willing to give every writer/story a try.

Also, it doesn't hurt that I loved the original Morlun story, it brought me back to reading Spider-Man.

"My belief is that pros owe fans their best effort to entertain,"

This is why we, your fans, give anything with your name on it a try.
From Soulsearchers, Fallen Angel, Spidy, Star Trek books and original novels.
You say we owe you nothing, but complain when someone says they're fans, but have never heard of Soulsearchers or Fallen Angel.
I only know of Soulsearchers from talking to you in San Diego.
The average comic fan doesn't run to the GCD web page to find out all you've done. Not that they'd find it all in one place anyway.

I have no real interest in the "Spider Totem" story line, Hate the MJS characters who's names seem formed from a Boggle game, But will pick up the issues with your name on them because I have faith that you could write a good story, even using concepts I hate.
But, Unless the other issues of FNS-M come out on a very,very slow release day, I don't see picking up issues 2 & 3 just to keep my collection complete. I don't really want to spend money on the other two guys, And even if I love your part of the story, I don't care what happens next if it's being handled by writers I don't like.
It's like the Matrix movies. One was fun, Two sucked. I have no interest in watching the third "To see how it turns out".
I enjoyed the first two X-Men movies, But aren't going to run out and catch the third until I hear something good about it. And so far, The more I hear, The worse it sounds.

Oh yah, What is up with the Marvel Universe and marvel Knights Universe?

MK Inhumans wasn't the MU Inhumans.
MK Punisher wasn't MU Punisher.
MK FF isn't MU FF.
MK Black Panther has no resemblance to MU Black Panther.

But MK Spider-Man IS MU Spider-Man?

I have no idea where MK Capt. America and Daredevil fit in.

All of the ones that you mention are the same as they are in the MU, except for Black Panther. MadroX was a Marvel Knights book too. Marvel Knights is just a brand, and books can move in and out of it (Captain America, Wolverine, Hulk, Black Panther, etc).

"All of the ones that you mention are the same as they are in the MU, except for Black Panther."

What about the FF, man?

MK is just a brand that has some MU chracters and some alternate versions of MU characters.

I guess it doesn't make any more sense than anything else at Marvel these days.

The MK FF are the same as the MU FF... early on there were some continuity problems, but they have fixed those, and now the two books match up. Basically, the difference between MK and the MU is supposed to be in the approach... MU books are supposed to be more "superheroey" while MK books are supposed to be more "real world". But usually they're the same characters, just handled differently.

Im sick of 2 things people hating on the crossovers first off realize this isnt a crossover in the traditional sense and that intriging but to me the best thing about this is that the Books will finally have an actusal continuity to each other did anyone really think of that?! i mean when peter got organics in spectacular i wasnt sure until just recentlty (new avengers)if anyone else was usign him with them im just glad that the books will flow into each otherinstead of spidey havein like 4 different adventures in one month and not making mention to them in other books. and second People STop hatin on hudlin he's building an arc that taking time to build up the action now peole are just giving him a hard time cuz he's filling BIG SHOES but i like his arc and h=with him workin so closely to jms and mr david his stories on "the other" will be brought up to a new level altogother and lest we forget he's brought black panther to prominence again so stop hating. but ever since spectacular ended i been mising havin another spidey title so FNSM is like a peice of JOY to me Peter David has writeen SPidey b4 and he will deffinatley make this arc worth reading!

sorry to do 2 posts one after another but i forgot JMS is the Reason i bought spider-man again. HE gave Depth to people who had previously lost it Aunt May had been so one dimensional and mary jane had no purpose so they had to write her out with the occasional scene evry once in a while.he made GWEN STACY human instead of the mark of perfection she had been previous to us meeting her children. AND the spider-totem has done nothing but make for Great reading morlun and Shatra and even Eziekial at the end where some of the toughest bad guys this side of venom and Carnage. Plus just when you thought the Green Gobilin was done screwing with Peter we find out about thse twins who's goalin life was to be another pain in spidey's NECK its just a new twist. and i've enjoyed and and I AM thoroughly enjoying the hydra arc cuz spidey has never taken them on! JMS is taking spidey to regions he never explored and doin a greqt job so i have total faith in "The Other" story arc it wont hurt my wallt the addition of FNSM will fill the space of spectacular and prior to that Peter Parker, and you HAVENT EVEN READ the books from "the other" and u have thrown the book to the wayside i know comic book fans are a stubborn bunch but its not gonna kill u to walk in the comic shop and take a quick glance maybe ready a few sentences u might enjoy what you read either from Hudlin, PAD, or JMS. give it a chance jus take a glance are ur nuts gonna fall off if u do?