I seem to have come in late on this whole "Who's the Greatest American?" thing. I haven't seen any lists or anything, so I'm just talking off the top of my head.
Even after all the intervening centuries, and even with what we know of some of the more dubious activities in his private life, I'd still go with Thomas Jefferson.
Runners up to my mind would include FDR, Jonas Salk, Martin Luther King, and my wife. I'd also put my mom and dad, but they weren't born in this country so I'm not sure they'd be eligible.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at June 22, 2005 10:28 AM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingLots of naturalized citizens were on the list, like Tesla and Einstein.
(Aside: I tried watching that "town hall meeting" debate about the top five candidates, but it was just so painfully BAD.)
here's the list: http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/greatestamerican/top100/top100.html
Top 5: Abe Lincoln, MLK Jr., Ronald Reagan, George Washington and Ben Franklin.
James Madison. Come on, Father of the Constitution AND prematurely bald? Ya can't get better than that...
BJJ
MY list:
Che Guevara (OK
Rosa Parks
Jackie Robinson
Martin Luther King
Mark Twain
huh.. not sure why only part of my message posted. Yes, I know Che was SOUTH American, but it doesn't say 100 greatest NORTH American People.
FDR, Twain, Teddy Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman. Hubert Barnes. (My Grandpa) Mildred Barnes (My Grandma, and a Rosie the Riveter)
Travis
I'm still wondering how Reagan got in the top fiove along with Washington and Lincoln......
I browsed around the Discovery pages and the AOL pages and saw absolutely no explanation of how the top 100 were decided upon, or the top 5...and now all we can vote on is the top 5.
Did Discovery Channel and AOL host an earlier voting for the top 100...or was it decided upon by a group of 'experts'...or what? Does anyone know?
Personally, I think when voting on such a topic, one should be prevented from voting for anyone who was alive during your liftime. Especially when it comes to politicians, history has to decide. Anybody who was cognizant during a President's term is biased on judging whether that President had any merit.
Personally, I laugh (or cry) at the idea of Reagan being considered next to Washington and Lincoln. But I know I am just as biased as those who think he was great.
I'm going to give my nod to Washington. He helped put an end to the idea of America having a monarch; he only served two terms by his choice, put down the whisky rebellion, and freed his slaves in his will.
Hmmm.
My five are in no particular order and subject to change on a daily basis
1. Lincoln
2. John Steinbeck
3. Bruce Springsteen
4. Dashell Hammett
5. Thomas Jefferson
I think this was a kind of historical American Idol...they had earlier shows with like 4 Americans each, and viewers could go to the web and vote, with the winners advancing.
No, they didn't do four at a time. They had a list of the 100 greatest Americans they created in advance. The first week, people were able to vote on the top 25 of that list, which by the time they got to that point, they gave in alphabetical order. From there, they did a show on the top 25, and opened voting again to pare it down to the top 5.
Thankfully, my choice (Benjamin Franklin) is still there; at one point, it looked like George W. Bush (yes, you read that right) was going to knock him or one of others out (although Washington and Lincoln seemed pretty safe).
You get 3 votes, and then it locks you out from voting for a week from that computer. (tossing your cookies doesn't help.)
You can also vote by toll-free number...I'm not sure if they put a limit on the number of times you can dial from one line...or if that's even possible with caller-id blockage available.
Or through text messages.
Y'know, when I first heard about this--having no idea who was on the list or what the current voting numbers were like--I thought, "Watch conservatives grab control of this and try to put Ronald Reagan in the top slot."
Lo and behold.
If it's of any consolation, according to a recent "Daily News" article, Saddam Hussein speaks very fondly of him.
PAD
Gene Weingarten expresses my opinion on the matter pretty well.
My votes are Theodore Roosevelt and Thomas Edison. Better throw Abe Lincoln into that mix too. Some amazing minds roaming in there.
There is nothing we Americans cannot reduce to a competition.
Ben franklin
George washington Carver
Ceaser Chavez
Thomas Edison
Robert Pirsig
Richard Bach (author of Illusions is that his name?)
Issac Asimov
Spelling may be off on some names
What American inspired hundreds of millions [if not billions] around the globe when he gave concrete form to a dream spanning Man's history?
Neil Armstrong.
But, no, he doesn't rate a place at the top.
Oh well ...
I'm still wondering how Reagan got in the top fiove along with Washington and Lincoln......
I boggle.
That he was in the top 100, okay, I can't really quibble with that (well, I could, but I won't). But top five? That's just... frustrating, and indicative of a lot of America. :/
The refrain about Reagan being responsible for the fall of communism - rather than just the weight of it's own corruption - has been repeated and accepted by so many people on both the right -and- left that it is no longer something you can argue. His position in the top has been bought not with money or deeds but sheer repetition and we may as well just all accept it and move on. Who cares if he ignored AIDS or sanctioned illegal arms deals? He tore down that wall!
It's not America that's voting...it's a very small group of Discovery channel watchers, and maybe some AOL customers.
Hmm, wait, that sounds a lot like...elections...
Ok, maybe it IS America voting...
So Madonna, Michael Jackson and Dr. Phil make the list, but Norman Borlaug doesn't?
And people wonder why the world's oging to hell in a handbasket....
I'm partial to George Washington or Abraham Lincoln.
Washington, because his defeat of the British during the Revolutionary War was nothing short of miraculous under the circumstances. And if Washington had lost the war, Jefferson, Franklin and some of his other contemporaries mentioned on the list would have ended up in the British gallows or as exiles.
Lincoln, because, despite tremendous odds and the most costly and brutal U.S. war to date, managed to not only force a deeply devided nation back together again, he also successfully abolished slavery in the process.
It is a simple choice, (glassy eyed stare)the greatest American would be George W Bush. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated by the Republican party. .....Sleep Data, Sleep.........
That was really quite bizarre. For me, it's Ben Franklin without question. And so I went to the website via the link proffered up earlier in these comments, cast my vote for Ben Franklin and a little screen popped up saying "Thank you for voting for Ronald Reagan". I would have voted for him if the contest were "Greatest American President that served between 1981 and 1989", but only grudgingly at that point. I now need to vote lots of times simply to cleanse myself of that damn Reagan vote.
It's a shame none of these made the list:
Chief Joseph
Sitting Bull
Crazy Horse
Geronimo
Hiawatha
You people must be having fits. The horrible Ronald Reagan is topping the list, and so is the evil Bush-hitler!
No doubt you will all be forced into the same tired "the voters are idiots" routine if one of them wins.
God forbid it's Bush! But so what if he's voted the greatest American?
Remember ... BUSH SUCKS!
Curious, since I can't seem to look at the list from work...
Any modern Democrats on the list? Do the Clintons come in below or above Michael Jackson? Or do they make it at all?
There is nothing we Americans cannot reduce to a competition.
Both the British and the French did this before us. The British voted for Sir Winston Churchill. The French voted Charles de Gaulle as their #1. (At least they had an author, Victor Hugo, in their top 5).
I hope John Adams (my personal fave) and George Washington get some love too.
I thought the Greatest American Hero was some curly haired teacher named Ralph...
I'm gonna stump for "them" to add Reagan's head to Mt. Rushmore. No, not carve it, I want his REAL head there.
Yeah, we Canadians did it too, though it was rather embarassing, because to prove the system was a complete wash, a Radio DJ in alberta asked all his listeners to vote for him. He ended up 34th. The top ten list looks like this, however:
1 Tommy Douglas
2 Terry Fox
3 Pierre Elliott Trudeau
4 Sir Frederick Banting
5 David Suzuki
6 Lester B. Pearson
7 Don Cherry
8 Sir John A. Macdonald
9 Alexander Graham Bell
10 Wayne Gretzky
So apparently we have three former prime ministers, another former politician, three influential scientists, an inspirational cancer activist and a hockey star and announcer as our top ten citizens of all time.(Not in that order) Oh, and Bell wasn't Canadian, nor Naturalized (He chose to retire to the same small Island I hail from, and built the silver dart there). The top 100 list is surprisingly rife with actors and musicians.
1. T. Edison (come on this look at what he did).
2. N. Telsa
3. Henry Ford
4. A. Bell the telephone changed our world
5. Tom Carvel we all need ice cream and who doesn't luv a fudgie thw whale
"Yeah, we Canadians did it too, though it was rather embarassing, because to prove the system was a complete wash, a Radio DJ in alberta asked all his listeners to vote for him. He ended up 34th"
Yes, but where did William Shatner place? And Terrance & Phillip?
PAD
One would hope that Bob and Doug McKenzie as well as Leslie Nielsen would have rated as well. (Stab in the dark, Paul Gross probably made the top 100 list, didn't he?)
If they (the voters) insisted on placing in the top five the greatest Republican President of the 20th century, then there's no contest, that's Teddy Roosevelt.
Regan doesn't come close.
I thought the Greatest American Hero was some curly haired teacher named Ralph...
Yes. Ralph Hanley (Hinckley the first few episodes, then they changed it so he wasn't confused with the attempted assassin of Ronald Reagan)
BBayliss: "I'm gonna stump for 'them' to add Reagan's head to Mt. Rushmore. No, not carve it, I want his REAL head there."
Right on! Dig up his dead body, cut off the head, and place it on Mt. Rushmore. THAT will show everyone that YOU have real CLASS!
Some of the people on that list make me want to cry. Dr. Phil?! Who the hell thought it would be good to put him on there.
BBayliss: "I'm gonna stump for 'them' to add Reagan's head to Mt. Rushmore. No, not carve it, I want his REAL head there."
Okay kid...I know that yo think that "historical" landmarks are boring, but you've just GOTTA see how they've spiced up old Rushmore!
If only this had happened *before* Neil Gaiman wrote "American Gods."
Shadow turned the corner, following Mr. Wednesday as the speech contiuned...
"And then we see that in 2000 the Amercians decided to ....HOLY SHIT!!! Even I'M not that messed up! Forget it pal, this country's just too weird for me!"
Just thinking...
Should we be looking at the greatest person who just happens to be American...
Or...
the person to is greatest in representing/upholding the "traditional" American values?
Those can be two very different lists.
Pat: Henry Ford
Luigi Novi: Yeah, except for that whole "being friends with Hitler and approving of theories" thing.
Hey the greatest american is just a copy of the greatest candian aired months ago by CBC. It was Alexander Graham Bell.
-Aaron
My Top 10 (in no particular order)
1.Albert Einstein
2.Nikola Tesla
3.Mark Twain
4.Theodore Roosevelt
5.Ben Franklin
6.Thomas Jefferson
7.JFK
8.Marylin Monroe
9.Humphrey Bogart
10.Stan Lee (I am a comics fan after all!)
I think a tie for # 11 would be Joseph Hanna & William Barbera.
Michael J Norton
PAD said:
"Yes, but where did William Shatner place? And Terrance & Phillip?"
I'm surprised Terrance & Phillip DIDN'T make the list, though William Shatner DID, at a respectable #56, behind famous pianist Glenn Gould and ahead of "Anne of Green Gables" author Lucy Maud Montgomery. Jim Carrey, Mike Myers, Michael J. Fox, Pamela Anderson and John Candy are among the other actors that made the list, although James Doohan did not.
I vote for the evil BushHitler! He is oppressing Peter David, personally. That's why there is a clock showing when the evil Bush-Hitler will leave office on this site. If a Democrat is elected, we can then return to world peace and total happiness for all!
Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Jefferson
Abraham Lincoln
Alexander Graham Bell
Sitting Bull
Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Jefferson
Abraham Lincoln
Alexander Graham Bell
Sitting Bull
------------------
Thank GOD you didn't forget to include a member of a minority!
You almost got thrown out of the "politically correct" club.
ALL lists MUST include minorities!
Shudderingly, I seem to recall they did something like this here on German TV too, although I can't remember who was voted into what position. Shouldn't be surprised if Einstein made it into the top 10 or even top 5.
My own top 12 Greatest Americans (in the sense of "inhabitants and citizens of the territory now belonging to the US) would be in alphabetical order:
Frederick Douglass
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Benjamin Franklin(1)
Thomas Jefferson
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Abraham Lincoln
George C. Marshall
Eleanor Roosevelt
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Harriet Beecher Stowe(2)
Tecumseh
Mark Twain
(1) Also as a scientist and an inventor. I found it interesting that in Paris the signs on the Rue Benjamin Franklin list this aspect first - it says: "American physicist and statesman", in that order.
(2) I chose her because she is the most well-known of the many politically and socially active and important women of the second half of the 19th century.
As a foreigner, I tend to go for people who had an international impact (did you know that both the French and German navies (the latter during the revolution of 1848) had ships named after Franklin?). As a German, I am not immune to a certain national biases, thus I consider Einstein a German (he framed his most important theories decades before he emigrated to America) and I know that the first telephone was built by Philipp Reis. :)
"ALL lists MUST include minorities!"
Most of these do. They have at least a few really intelligent people. And if THAT'S not a minority on this planet ...
"ALL lists MUST include minorities!" Most of these do. They have at least a few really intelligent people. And if THAT'S not a minority on this planet..."
My point is that standards are standards! If one is making a list of great Americans, then "greatness" should be the ONLY qualification. The list should NOT be forced to include minorities just to be politically correct!
My list is nothing but minorities (not that I chose them for that fact.) Got anything to say, (x-)Ray?
Posted by: bbayliss at June 22, 2005 11:04 AM
MY list:
Che Guevara (Latino)
Rosa Parks (African-American)
Jackie Robinson (African-American)
Martin Luther King (African-American)
Mark Twain (humorist)
Nope.
I think your "list" speaks for itself.
(It's a list of liberal icons, not great Americans.)
My friend.
you have finally crossed the line. Not into stupidity (that one is a looooong way back) or irritating, (see stupidity.) No, you have finally become a bigot. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. IS A "LIBERAL ICON"!?!?! Hey, pal, put down "The Protocols of Zion," and "Mein Kanpf" and smell the stench of bigots! MLK is one of the greatest peaceful leaders of all time, second (perhaps) only to Mahatma Gandi, and Jesus. Rosa Parks was one of the bravest women of all time, perhaps only behind Florence Nightengale, and Jackie Robinson took bigotry beyond belief in stride. As for Che Guevera, hey, like him or not, he was one hell of a leader. Personally, I would have had Ceaser Chavez there, but to each their own. BBayliss, it is laudable, even angelic of you to be so kind to this guy, but really, he is past our help. He cannot stand the idea that a minority can have heros or great leaders, despite the fact that almost all great leaders have come from minorities. Mr. David, your paticence has been Jobian, but I must agree with Rex Hondo. BAN THIS JERK! All he does is raise the blood pressure. anyway, thats my rant. Have a nice day.
Ever notice how all the trolls on this site have 'names' that are four letters long and begin with one of the last letters in the alphabet? (Except for that one who was a consonant.)
Not that I'm saying anything... just noticing is all.
Teddy Roosevelt. Here's some of his quotes:
A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education.
In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.
No man is worth his salt who is not ready at all times to risk his well-being, to risk his body, to risk his life, in a great cause.
The first requisite of a good citizen in this republic of ours is that he shall be able and willing to pull his weight.
I think there is only one quality worse than hardness of heart and that is softness of head.
Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or leave the country.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the senators do not know whether to answer present or not guilty.
The pacifist is as surely a traitor to his country and to humanity as is the most brutal wrongdoer.
Tom Carvel we all need ice cream and who doesn't luv a fudgie the whale
Yeah, but did you ever notice that Fudgie the Whale was just the Santa Claus mold upside down?
Had to love his commercials though. How many cartons of cigarettes did that guy go through a day to get that voice?
Che Guevara? Jeeze, nice T-Shirt but as a human being...good thing for the guys at Gitmo that the people in charge don't follow Che's gentle treatment of prisoners...
my top five all time-y greats
1.Lincoln (if I have to explain why, forget it)
2.MLK Jr. (see above)
3. Simon Bolivar
3. (its a tie) George Washington
4. Cesar Chavez
5. (yeah, you are gonna wanna shoot me) Reagan
now if it was 5 americans who had the Biggest impact:
1.Washington (we wouldn't have the constitution without him.....seriously, look it up.)
2.Lincoln
3.MLK
4.Nixon
5.FDR
6. (I think they made him an honorary citizen)Winston Churchill
Che Guevera? No comment.
"BAN THIS JERK! All he does is raise the blood pressure."
You're raising your blood pressure, not him. Stop reading this jerk. Don't talk to this jerk. He'll get tired of screaming into the void and slink off one day.
"You're raising your blood pressure, not him. Stop reading this jerk. Don't talk to this jerk. He'll get tired of screaming into the void and slink off one day."
"Correct as usual King Friday." I will try to remember that one.
R. Maheras -
if you are going to suggest that George Washington trumps Jefferson and Franklin because HE won the War of Independence and THEY would have been hung if HE had lost it, let me just remind you that a not insignificant part of the reason Britain lost the war was because the United States were supported by a number of European powers. And foremost among these was the biggest European military power of them all, France (biggest army and second-biggest navy; Britain at the time had the biggest navy but an army too small for its jobs, so that both in the war in America and at the defense of Gibraltar it had to be reinforced with troops hired from medium-sized and minor German states). If you take into account the sailors of the blockading fleet, more French servicemen were at Yorktown than Americans. And the Franco-American alliance, without which the US might conceivably have lost the war, was of course negotiated by Ben Franklin.
Also, whenever I read sentences like "such-and-such a general won that war", I think of a couple of lines from Bert Brecht's "Questions of a reading worker":
"Caesar conquered Gaul. Didn't he at least have a cook with him?"
X-Ray = Scream nonsense whenever possible.
`nuff said
X-Ray: "(It's a list of liberal icons, not great Americans.)"
Are liberal icons less than people? This is how it sounds from you.
"Are liberal icons less than people? This is how it sounds from you."
One time, just for fun, you should try accepting what I say and not trying every trick in the book to twist my words. Liberal icons are not less than people, and I never came close to saying so. All I discussed was criteria for making such a list.
BTW, if you're all supposed to be ignoring me, why are my comments getting so many responses?
It seems you all follow your leader, the haughty Peter David, who deems me beneath his notice even as he comments on my posts well over a dozen times.
Classic. Also funny.
Hey, X-Ray, did it occur to you that maybe these people DID choose Sitting Bull or Tecumseh or Cesar Chavez or Martin Luther King or whomever because they seriously considered them on standards of "greatness"? Why are you so SURE they chose them only to be "politically correct"? Are you reading their minds? How about giving people the benefit of the doubt? (And how can you reasonably say MLK and Mark Twain are nothing but "liberal icons?")
My own top 10, in no particular order:
Abraham Lincoln
Thomas Edison
Martin Luther King
Thomas Jefferson
George Washington
John Adams
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Mark Twain
Billy Graham
John Quincy Adams
Not too original a list, except for JQA and good ol' Billy, but it works for me. I actually WOULD put Reagan in the top 50, maybe even the top 30, in terms of impact. And I'm sure I'm shamefully forgetting someone.