Brian Hibbs is one of the smartest retailers in the industry, if not THE smartest. So when Brian speaks, attention should be paid.
In the latest installment of his “Tilting With Windmills” column (a title that I, with my Quixotic leanings, can appreciate) which ran in Newsarama.com, he cited a litany of the problems retailers have to deal with on a weekly basis. He feels—boiling it down—that retailers get a bad rap and a ton of abuse. There’s certainly something to be said for that perception. Retailers are the guys on the front line, and yes, Fred, they knew the job was dangerous when they took it, but it’s true. Retailers get a lot of abuse and have to deal with a lot of finger pointing…including pointing from a rather impolite finger. So Brian speaks out on their behalf, and I totally understand that.
He also touches on the notion of “comics activism” and how it’s required in order to keep books such as She-Hulk and—more personally—Fallen Angel going.
Now I have nothing but respect for Brian. So it’s out of that sense of respect, rather than being snotty, that I ask him what the devil I’m supposed to say to fans who send me e-mails such as this…
“I asked about Fallen Angel #14, and, surprise, only one copy ever existed in the shop in somebody's reserve box. Both guys running the shop said they were surprised the book made it (to) 14 issues...I still don't have #12, and (almost as importantly) finding #14 is a lost cause, too.”
Or post messages such as this on my website:
“I am so frustrated. I rarely get flustered due to the fact that most situations are salvageable if not outright fixable but this case is an exception. I’m on vacation right now and the comic book retailer in Modesto, California, does not carry Fallen Angel. I am now starting to understand why my favorite comics books get canceled. After all how can new readers (or existing ones) pick up new books if those books are not available to consumers in the first place? I just hope my local guy has copies of this amazing book left when I get home.”
Or the following from the Fallen Angel comment board at dccomics.com:
“(T)he sad thing is, none of the places near me carry Fallen Angel.”
In the meantime pundits look at troubled sales and cynically wonder when DC will stop publishing the book, proclaiming that there’s lack of fan interest. But fan interest is irrelevant when there’s lack of retailer interest. The first, best tool in generating increased sales is positive word of mouth. But word of mouth doesn’t get it done when the books aren’t there for purchase. Under ordinary circumstances, browsing customers will spot Fallen Angel on the stands, say, “Oh, I’ve heard good things about this, I’ll check it out,” and buy it. That can’t happen when retailers don’t bother to put so much as a single copy out.
The irony is impressive. The direct market was created out of publishers’ desire to minimize their risk by printing only books up front they know will sell. Retailers have taken the next step: Not ordering books unless guaranteed they will sell. The result is that fans who want to stop reading a title have no problem doing so, and fans who want to start reading a title—especially if it’s non-mutant, non-standard superhero fare—have a major problem doing so.
So I’m asking, what am I supposed to do in the face of that? There is, after all, only so far that guerrilla marketing will take you. Do we supplement “free comics day” with “free why-the-hell-aren’t-you-reading-these-comics day?” Do I have to go door to door or phone every single retailer and point out, hey, Cinescape.com, Variety.com, Aintitcoolnews.com, Thefourthrail.com, 411mania.com, Bagsandboards.com, Paperbackreader.com, Herorealm.com, and Stupidscifi.com (to name a few) have been raving about this book over the past few months so maybe, just maybe, the retailers might want to, y’know, carry a copy or two? Just for laughs, in case someone might want to buy it?
It doesn’t seem practical. But here’s my latest endeavor, and maybe this is the kind of activism Brian’s talking about. In this case, it’s aimed at moving out copies of the Fallen Angel trade paperback.
I am going to produce a limited edition Fallen Angel bookplate, which artists Dave Lopez and Fernando Blanco are doing the art for. I will autograph the bookplates, which can then be affixed to the title page of the trade paperback. Any retailer who has copies in his store, send me a self-addressed stamped #10 envelope to PO Box 239, Bayport, NY 11705, and tell me how many you need. I will send you up to five (if more postage is required, I’ll cover the difference). If you need more than that, send me some sort of written proof that you’ve ordered that many. I will also make these available to fans, since I don’t want to freeze out people who order via Amazon.com or whose retailers simply won’t carry it. Likewise send a SASE, and include a copy of your receipt. (If you don’t have the receipt, send a photocopy of the cover or a picture of you holding the book(s), something.) Hey guys, you could do worse for a holiday gift for your girlfriend or spouse than a signed trade paperback of a well-reviewed series featuring a strong female protagonist.
As for the would-be readers whose endeavors are thwarted by their local retailers, yes, they can be told to go via mail order or some such. But not everyone wants to take the time to do that, or even wants to preorder at their local store, particularly when it’s a comic they’ve never seen before. They want to just be able to walk in and buy it, and the truth is that many of them can’t. And those are just the ones I’m hearing from. I’m sure there are many more who don’t even know that Fallen Angel came out in a given week and sure couldn’t tell from their local store since the retailer didn’t put any out, despite all the buzz the book’s gotten.
You want me not to lay that at the retailers’ door, Brian? Okay. Which leaves me still not knowing what to tell potential and thwarted readers. And that’s a shame for all concerned, because then we all lose.
PAD
I've just started picking this up. (I couldn't wait for the trade any longer.)
I like that this book is going somewhere and isn't stuck in a loop like some more "long-running" titles out there.
I do my comic's activist part in trying to keep up the sales of the various writers I like, but these are the same retailers that picked up 1 copy of the latest JSA and Legion issues, so it's kind of hard to get them to change their ways.
Also, just wanted to point out that 411mania.com's comic's section shut down and moved to www.comicsnexus.com. (:
PAD,
You know, the passion and personal investment you have made for the success of "Fallen Angel" is extremely commendable. In fact, it is THE reason I am still picking up the book. I probably would have dropped it around issue #6 if you didn't have such enthusiasm for it. While still not close to my favorite title, I have enjoyed the last three issues far more than I did the early ones. So I am growing more confident that my patience with the book will pay off eventually.
As far as your frustration and your proposal are concerned,I will tell the retailer in the Scranton area who has been carrying "Fallen Angel" faithfully about your offer as well. Maybe you do need to contact each individual retailer, by e-mail at least. And again, if you ever would like to have a crazy signing day and hit all the stores in the Philly area some Saturday, I can almost guarantee some press for you. I realy think that would be cool. Other than that - and possibly getting your trade in libraries - I don't know what else you can do, until the day Warner Brothers, Barnes and Noble or SOMEONE opens up comic shops nationwide that are run like a business and not a hobby, and that would give books like "Fallen Angel" a better chance of reaching the public.
Failing that, you ca tell frustrated would-be buyers to order through Mile High Comics or someplace else with a good subscription system. Maybe if enough of your fans got ALL their books that way, and then told their local retailer that the reason they're not getting their $10-$200 a month anymore is because they didn't order "Fallen Angel", maybe the loss of revenue would spur these retailers to act.
Maybe.
Heck, it's worth a shot!
Jerome
"Personally? I kind of want to slay the dragon!"
The direct market was created out of publishers’ desire to minimize their risk by printing only books up front they know will sell. Retailers have taken the next step: Not ordering books unless guaranteed they will sell. The result is that fans who want to stop reading a title have no problem doing so, and fans who want to start reading a title—especially if it’s non-mutant, non-standard superhero fare—have a major problem doing so.
You know, I get the feeling that most fans sorta recognize this intellectually....but don't really get what this means.
In essence, this virtually guaruntees THERE CAN BE NO GROWTH IN THE DIRECT MARKET.
And people are slagging the publishers over the content? *sigh*
This can have a direct impact on the retailers, too. There's a comic book shop exactly one block up the street from my office. Nirvana, right?
Wrong, because it didn't carry "Fallen Angel" or "Fables," my two favorite titles. I asked them to order it for my pull list, but it was always arriving a week or two late, and sometimes not at all. The shop owner kept saying I was the only one asking for it, so he only ordered the one copy each month.
So now I drive to the comic shop about 25 minutes south of my office and 45 minutes from my home once a month. It's a royal pain, but they stock "Fallen Angel" and "Fables," so it's worth my time. As for the guy up the street, I'll drop by if I feel like picking up "X-Men."
It's good to go out of your way to support a local shop. But I would actually tell the retailer near you exactly what you are doing and WHY. Nothing wakes up a businessman like realizing an action he/she has taken is costing him/her money. If he doesn't have enough sense to change his ordering habits as a result, he doesn't deserve your business anyway.
Also, if the drive becomes too much of a pain, you can always order from Mile High Comics or another subscription service. They'll provide you a printout each month of the books shipped to you, and you can then take that to your local anti-"Fallen Angel" retailer and say, "THIS is what you're losing by not carrying "Fallen Angel".
Jerome
"Personally? I kind of want to slay the dragon!"
I looked again: Amazon.com is listing Fallen Angel correctly and it is easy to find. But in spite of my message, Amazon.co.uk but also Amazon.de are listing the trade still as Fallen Angels and when I search using the correct name, their computer can`t find it.
It is also important for me that this comic series survives and usually being a fan of PAD`s work, such mistakes annoy me immensely. Shouldn`t the sales department or advertisement department of DC sort these things out?
Because as a customer, I usually get the feeling like running against a brick wall. Out of curiosity, I looked: Amazon.com and Amazon.de get it right now but Amazon.co.uk is STILL listing No Limits as an omnibus with reprints of earlier novels! I really don`t know how often I already tried to get that changed in the past!
I think it was about two months to go here in Britain when Star Trek Monthly still offered this outdated information about No Limits and only because I contacted them as well - again - they finally changed it, thanking me for bringing that to their attention.
I can only hope that sales in Britain didn`t suffer too much because of this blunder.
Every little helps, and I think getting the departments responsible for selling, advertising and customer relations to do their jobs properly would be a good idea.
Me personally, I never had problems to get latest issues of Fallen Angel. I have it on subscription from two different retailers, just in case. If one can`t get it, there is always the other one and I get the comics by post each month. But in a city not far away where I live are two well stocked comic shops too. If I ever miss something, that one can usually help me. But I am living in Britain, maybe it is indeed better here concerning the availability of comics.
PAD,
I haven't bought the trade because I have all the issues. And until recently, finances were an issue. But now things are a bit better, and I'm willing to take you up on your offer. I know my LCS has at least copy of the trade-would it be better for the cause to get it there, or would it help more to order from Amazon to boost the ranking there?
Thanks for all the great work of yours that I've been pleased to read, comics and prose.
Richard
Mr. David, here's something quick and obvious you could do that would help.
Get on line to the UK version of Amazon. (I think there are links on the US web site to do that.) Find "Fallen Angels" or whatever it's called. Tell them that you are the author (you might have to give an authenticating e-mail address for you or DC overseas sales), tell them the title is incorrectly listed, and ask them to correct it.
You worked in DC's sales department, and you probably still know people there. Use those contacts and get them to apply pressure. For something that's such little trouble, it will increase sales, and no intelligent salesman will turn down money.
Well, Peter, I kinda had that problem, which is why I ended up goin to one of the out fo the way larger comic shops in NYC. I live in Queens near JFK, but I get my comics from Modtown Comics: West, right by the Bus Terminal. The shop nearest to me in Queens didn't carry Black Panther, Spider-Girl, Fallen Angel, nothing from Oni Press, or a whole wealth of other smaller titles, But midtown does. There were, like, so many great titles that I probably would've even had the chance to pick up had I not switched. If you want to give advice to your readers, PAD, tell to look for a better shop... or order online, or something...
Peter,
I'll take you up on that offer. I ordered three copies of the trade for our store, and we sold all of them recently and I'm going ahead and getting five more with my next batch of reorders. Frankly, I never really believed that kind of retailer apathy and ignorance existed until I actually started working in a comic shop and it was a real wake up call. Thankfully, things have gotten better and I try to push all the small, good books that deserve a chance.
And of course, if people want to order a copy of the trade with the bookplate, drop me a line at darkstar@erinet.com and I'll get one out to you (once we have books and I've sent away for bookplates, of course).
Thanks,
Thacher E. Cleveland
Manager,
Dark Star Books and Comics
Yellow Springs, OH
*/plug*
"I don't know what else you can do,
until the day Warner Brothers,
Barnes and Noble or SOMEONE
opens up comic shops nationwide
that are run like a business and
not a hobby, and that would give
books like "Fallen Angel" a better
chance of reaching the public."
Jerome, quoted above, raises an interesting but controversial point. I recall a time years ago when the CBG readership among others were in an uproar over the idea of "Marvel Stores" opening in competition with privately owned 'mom & pop' comics shops.
But if the network of "Comic Book Guys" is falling down on the job, perhaps it may be time to reconsider.
There would be an uproar of protest, of course, if a National chain of Wal-Mart like comics superstores opened up and drove hundreds of small retailers out of business (just as there was when One distributor cornered most of the market).
But if the stores that failed were the ones that only carry the top 100 best selling titles, or the "only DC/Marvel/Image" stores, or the ones that only order one pre-sold copy of a title that never hits the racks... Well, I don't want to be callous and suggest that anyone trying to make a living deserves to go out of business, but wouldn't the comics industry, the comics Art Form and ultimately the readership benefit from the changeover?
(Personally, I've been quite happy with the service I've been recieving from "At Your Service" Subscriptions Service from Keith's in Dallas ever since The Book Stop and Between The Covers here in Michigan folded.)
Peter, I want to at least make your day a little bit. Maybe I am just lucky, but the two stores that I frequent, they both have copies of "Fallen Angel" on the shelves, and they do support the book. Generally, my stores do a good job, and with just a few exceptions where I have to check out Previews to order books, they make sure that the shelves are stocked,and certain "buzz" books are usually there when I seek them out. (Example, "Y-The Last Man.") I hear these horror stories, and I just count my blessings. A personal note: I was at the comic store you visited a week before San Diego--Beachead in Allentown, PA. It was a real treat meeting you, and it was a really cool thing you did for the fans, and for Jeff, the owner. I just wanted you to know that the retailers in my area support you, so your kindness was not wasted. Oh yeah, and "Fallen Angel" 14 rocked. I did NOT see that coming.
Hi Peter (and everyone).
I'd like to be crass and say that the answer is Comics America, because we do support the book (it's here every month, we have maintained all issues so far as I know in back issue stock, and it's on the mail order service.) So I invite anyone with problems of supply to try our mailorder (www.comicsamerica.com). Okay, enough with the plugs already. We both know from many years around this business that it's not just the retailer situation that has created these problems. Ultimately it's the distribution system as it stands right now.
Anyway, you'll find the envelope and some good old greenbacks in your mailbox shortly so I can get the five bookplates which we will happily dispense along with the tradeback.
I agree that something needs to be done to ensure quality books get the proper exposure. Luckily, my local comic book shop is very good at keeping less-known books on hand. I haven't had a problem getting Fallen Angel or Runaways, which I believe suffers from the same problem.
At Newsarama (and comicscontinuum, milehighcomics, etc), I noticed that Marvel has provided a full issue of Uncanny X-Men online. Does Uncanny X-Men need this kind of hype? Does ANY comic reader not know what to expect from Chris Claremont's X-Men? I don't read UXM now, and I don't plan on reading it in the future. Nevertheless, the issue was free, so I took a look. Marvel did the same thing for much-publicised Avengers #500 (Which I bought, but I would have without the preview).If Marvel and DC (independants may not be able to afford it, which I understand) would do this for thier so-called "buzz" books (Like Gotham Central, Runaways, or FA), it gives those books a chance to pick up new readers that don't want to spend thier money on something comepletely unfamiliar. Marvel gave MileHigh a full issue of She-Hulk, and since then, I've started picking up back issues and I've become a fan of the series.
And why make Batman: The 12-cent Adventure? Give us Birds of Prey: The 12-cent Adventure so we can expose ourselves to new books with relatively low cost.
"Expose ourselves". Heh.
Dear Dad,
"Any retailer who has copies in his store..."
Girls work in comic book stores too you know.....
Honestly, I'm not sure the problem is retailer disinterest so much as it might be readers not exploring every avenue.
Comic shops in the Ohio area, for example, have always been accomidating when it comes to ordering books, even obscure ones, for me. I put it on my pull list, they get it for me. If they don't get it right away, they do their best to get it from the retailer (except Marvel, in which case if their auxillary stores don't have it, tough toenails).
I mean, the stores I went to hadn't even HEARD of the Ultraman Tiga maxiseries, but they managed to get it for me. One store went out of it's way to get me the obscure Moonstone Sherlock Holmes issues. Without specialty requesting, I never would have gotten my hands on the latest Power Pack or Spaceknights minis. The store I went to wasn't even going to order ONE copy of the Human Torch series before I requested that it be added to my pull. Next time I checked, they'd actually went and ordered five, and those sold out. Turned out there were FF fans who hadn't heard about it.
Of course I STILL have trouble getting Toyfare on a regular basis...
People, it CAN'T hurt to specifically request these books in your pulls. Make sure they hear you and write it down. Call and check in every couple weeks to make sure. Persistance pays off.
Luigi axed: What's a bookplate?
Usually, a thicker sheet of paper which is an added bonus to the book. It may be 'tipped in' or glued in. Tipped in means it is loose. The bookplate may have a fancy design, some featured art, or simply say "This book belongs to: _________". There are other possibilities.
The lovely Guinevere notes that there are women who work in comics shops. I believe that I heard there is at least one that is owned and operated only by women. An of course, there is also at least one website that is operated by women, the Sequential Tarts site.
Hooray for women who participate in the comics business!
As to the subject of stores not carrying Fallen Angel, too many of the comics shops in existance seem to not have the financial ability to stop books for the future. They only want to order what they can sell in the next 2 or 4 or 6 weeks. Whether this is from timidity, bad business practices, or just plain ignorance is not important. The fact, as stated above, is that this guarantees little or no expansion of their businesses.
Just for the record, the one or two people who mentioned wal-mart or another chain doing comics. I can guarantee if they did, it would be only core Marvel/DC/Image books, and no Fallen Angel.
My second part is for Peter David. How long should a store support your books? What if the store carried them for 6 months, and sold 0 copies? Should they keep throwing away money? Because that is what ithe problem is. I pushed FA hard, and the only reason I have the readers I do? Because I sent you some copies of #1 to sign (out of the GIANT stack I had 4 months after it came out), and people finally started picking it up.
Unfortunetly, not all retailers interact with you through your website. And I'm sorry to say, sometimes a dog is a dog. I love FA, but it's not the type of comic people buy. Even a major success, like Y-The last Man or Fables comes nowhere close in sales to Superman/Batman. I order 200% of my sellthrough of FA every month, yet it's still one of the lowest selling DC titles (although it sold more than I-Candy). And that's the other point. Around the same time FA started, we had Big Daddy Danger (never could sell a copy - lost tons of money), ICandy (1 copy of #1 sold - never sold another), and that stupid time traveling one (can't remember the name - sold 0). At some point us retailers are going to say enough. I did it with Image last year, and haven't looked back. If I don't know the Writer or the Artist, or have a lot of interest in my store, I don't order the new series from them (or from many indy publishers).
Surely you're not saying retailers should stock every single title out there that's published every month? And if not, then why make an exception to yours? There are many examples of new series which have started (with new characters, and in some cases, new creators) which have been very successfull, so there obviously isn't some barrier.
Jerry Wall
"As to the subject of stores not carrying Fallen Angel, too many of the comics shops in existance seem to not have the financial ability to stop books for the future. They only want to order what they can sell in the next 2 or 4 or 6 weeks. Whether this is from timidity, bad business practices, or just plain ignorance is not important. The fact, as stated above, is that this guarantees little or no expansion of their businesses."
Actually, it's good business. It's called cycling, and pretty much ALL of the profitable and growing shops stock for a sellout (whether 30 days, 60 days, or 90 days). Product left over that time is pretty much lost money.
There are 3000+ stores. Not a single store in this country carries 100% of the comics published monthly. Most of them will special order anthing someone needs. But sometimes, you have to go elsewhere.
It's amazing how noone expects Barnes and Nobles to have every single book in print in stock at all times, Wal-Mart to have every video game ever that came out at all times, and Sears to have every type of clothing, yet each and every single store has to have not only every single comic published, but now always have every single issue around forever? Gee....
I'll got take my ignorant, scared self back and pocket the money I am making not trying to stock every comic forever.
Jerry Wall
"There are many examples of new series which have started (with new characters, and in some cases, new creators) which have been very successfull, so there obviously isn't some barrier."
Within the last few years? Really? Many examples? VERY successful? Like, constantly in the top 50 successful and regularly published?
Okay. I'll bite. Like what?
PAD
"There are 3000+ stores. Not a single store in this country carries 100% of the comics published monthly."
Sorry Jerry, but we do. Even if it's just a single copy. We find in our experience that the diversity gains sales.
"too many of the comics shops in existance seem to not have the financial ability to stop [sic] books for the future"
Do you suspect WHY the above statement is true?
There are many examples of new series which have started (with new characters, and in some cases, new creators) which have been very successfull, so there obviously isn't some barrier.
You must be kidding. This has definitely NOT been the case for the last few decades....
"My second part is for Peter David. How long should a store support your books? What if the store carried them for 6 months, and sold 0 copies? Should they keep throwing away money? Because that is what ithe problem is. I pushed FA hard, and the only reason I have the readers I do? Because I sent you some copies of #1 to sign (out of the GIANT stack I had 4 months after it came out), and people finally started picking it up."
Yes, exactly. That's the sort of "retailer activism" that Brian was calling for. Because the smart retailer realizes that same-old same-old, and the endless recycling of characters created decades ago, helps erode the marketplace. And that it's in the best interests of the retailer to work hard to foster readership of new titles and characters, especially when they're as critically acclaimed as FALLEN ANGEL. To supplement the mainstays with fresh books which will, in turn, help prevent the readership from wandering away.
"Unfortunetly, not all retailers interact with you through your website. And I'm sorry to say, sometimes a dog is a dog. I love FA, but it's not the type of comic people buy."
And "Seinfeld" wasn't the type of show viewers watched, nor was "X-Files," in the beginning. Things that are new and different oftentimes fly under the radar for a while until people realize it's there and start telling their friends. The buzz brings more viewers. But if networks keep moving a slow starter from one timeslot to another or keep pre-empting it, it's impossible to build up viewership and it kills the show (and how many times have we seen THAT happen? "Sports Night," anyone?)
And a number of retailers are doing the equivalent with "Fallen Angel," which is all I'm saying. Despite rave reviews, despite positive buzz, they're "pre-empting" it, making it difficult to find. So I'm trying to do more stuff to aid retailers and/or encourage them not to pre-empt, but put it in a regular slot so people can find it. Just as I did with you...and you yourself say it worked in that people are now "picking it up."
PAD
Once again, I would suggest that anyone who wishes to find Fallen Angel at their comic shop each month with the intention of buying it regularly, sign up with the retailer to have it pulled for them. Make that little commitment. If you are interested and going to get it anyway, don't place all of the burden on the retailer asking him to gamble that you will pick it up off the shelf. Tell him he can count on at least one sale. That is often enough for him/her to take a chance that a second or third will sell.
I don't know why Diamond would fill orders of only 1 copy late, if that happens. But it is still being filled.
Really dedicated? Ask the shop how many other people get the book. If no one, offer to pay him the cost of one extra copy to put on the shelf for people to find. Hang out on Wednesday or Thursday or Saturday and talk it up with the other regulars. Might make a new friend with a similar interest. Ask the retailer if he would do you the favor of pointing it out to customers looking for something different.
When Bone was new and still finding its audience, I photocopied amusing or grabbing snippets and the local shop posted them on the counter for people to see. After I got them hooked the owner (a woman) and the 3 girls working for her would talk it up to people.
It's a shame comics have such a hard time in the States. Over here in Asia, there are comic bookstores in every neighborhood. If you have a membership, you can 'rent' comics for a week at a pop. Or, you can sit on the couches in the store and read pretty much everything on the shelves until your heart is content. It's too bad the market in the States can't evolve to such a level. Where I work (that'd be Taiwan) everyone reads comics, all the freaking time.
You know Peter,
You make me feel real bad that I don't buy Fallen Angel. Your activism on behalf of that book and the others you write are truly awe-inspiring. Mind you, I hate Fallen Angel, so I'm not going to go out and buy it, but you make me feel real bad that I don't like it enough to buy it.
""There are 3000+ stores. Not a single store in this country carries 100% of the comics published monthly."
Sorry Jerry, but we do. Even if it's just a single copy. We find in our experience that the diversity gains sales."
First, may I ask what store is that? I'd love to see it. Must be 10k+ SF. Second, every comic? From every single publisher? Period? Every single book listed in previews? In adult previews? Put out by cold cut? Put out regionally by small press distributors? You'll forgive me if I find that hard to swallow.
Show me pictures of your wall with the thousands and thousands of spot for each single title, and I might believe you.
Jerry Wall
"And a number of retailers are doing the equivalent with "Fallen Angel," which is all I'm saying. Despite rave reviews, despite positive buzz, they're "pre-empting" it, making it difficult to find. So I'm trying to do more stuff to aid retailers and/or encourage them not to pre-empt, but put it in a regular slot so people can find it. Just as I did with you...and you yourself say it worked in that people are now "picking it up." "
Yeah, but you know what Peter? I am having to put MAJOR effort into selling those copies, while I can't even keep copies of books like Dead@17 and the Walking Dead on my shelves. They outsell Fallen Angel 20 to 1 in my stores, without me doing any special store displays, signed copies or anything else. Hawiian Dick is another example. Last Resort comes out next week. I'll probably have a great sell through.
But for some reason, I can't get people to pick up FA, besides the few I got from the signatures. I can't get people to pick up Fused, or the Monolith, or other great titles. Part of that is due to the issues Brian mentioned. Budgets, shipping schedules, etc.
I know for a fact the FA coming shrinkwrapped with a CD is killing sales.
I would LOVE FA to be a huge success. I have put money out of my own pocket for every single issue, not making money yet on that book, because I support it, and you as a writer. (I'm just mentioning this so you know my only agenda is the same as yours...sell more FA and make more money).
What I would love to see is the percentage of stores which stock FA. Most comic stores I know order ALL DC and Marvel books. So out of 3000+ stores, are we talking 200, 500, 750 which don't? Anyway you can find out? Since DC is a premier publisher with Diamond I know they get sell through results, but I'm not sure if you are privvy to that info. If it's 2500 stores carring it, and 500 not, I'm not sure there's much to complain about.
Go try talking to Alternative Comics or About Comics and see how many emails a week they get from people saying "I can't find your books!". And you know what? They don't get negative. They just suggest another store that does carry them. And they are in a LOT less stores than FA.
Jerry Wall
I know for a fact the FA coming shrinkwrapped with a CD is killing sales.
So open the shrinkwrap....
"I know for a fact the FA coming shrinkwrapped with a CD is killing sales.
So open the shrinkwrap...."
Umm...I did, thank you very much. I'm not a complete moron. I spent my money paying my hourly employee to remove the shrink wrap off of all 9 DC titles this week. But I shouldn't have to. Of course that's not the point.
Most retailers would not have removed the wrap. Plus, perfectionists need theirs in the wrap (so as to not ruin the "mint" rating).
The only real reason I even mentioned this here was so that PAD could feedback to DC. I wanted to let him know that DC trying to push a non-comic movie was hurting his sales. It was an FYI type thing.
JerryWall
As a retailer who has supported Fallen Angel from the begining, I can tell you that interest is starting to build on this title. Whether that's being reflected in orders to DC yet or not I can't say but sales for me are definately picking up.
I've ordered more copies of each issue than I expected to sell in the first month or two in anticipation of interest in the earlier issues down the line. Sales remained fairly steady for the first 10-11 issues or so but then both new and earlier issues started moving. I've now sold out of issue #s 3 & 9 but still have the rest of the series in stock. I don't expect that to last much longer though and it's already pushed me to order even more of the most recently solicited few issues and to reorder some remaining stock on previous issues.
I hope this keeps up since this really is a good series.
Dan Wallace
Impulse Creations
I said: "too many of the comics shops in existance seem to not have the financial ability to stop [sic] books for the future"
Joe Krolik asked: "Do you suspect WHY the above statement is true?"
I meant 'stock', not 'stop'. But, aside from that, I suspect the root answer to Joe's question is that many retailers simply have no or little training in the business field. They started out as fans and then decided they could run a business. Some of them became successful in spite of that, some haven't.
One doesn't need a formal education to become a success, but after the business has been opened, there are many ways to get business training. Every little bit helps.
There are a lot of obstacles to running a comics business today. If I were going to get into the business for myself, I would buy an existing store. The thought of opening a new store without an existing market is frightening.
I wanted to add my views to this discussion, and to extend my thanks to Jerry Wall, who seems to be the only person talking any sense. I am speaking as a reader who spends a lot of time at her local shop and has bothered to learn something of how the industry operates.
Retailers cannot be expected to stock a comic that isn't selling – just on the off-chance that someone will decide to pick it up with that issue, or a visiting comic buyer will want it
Once a comic has gone passed the first few issues a lot of customers will not pick it up anyway. They tend to wait for the trade paperback, and will then often want to continue with trades. Providing they come out on a regular basis, soon after the issues they collect have come out. Many customers will not pick up a series unless no 1 is available, and some customers are discouraged from buying comics when retailers try to “push” them.
The buzz for Fallen Angel seems to have been mainly on the internet, and not everyone uses the internet for comics reviews. It needs heavily promoting by DC/ PAD. Possibly by making a percentage of the order returnable or sending out free samples of the next jumping on point. Including it in the Horizon would also help. That way customers are less likely to believe the retailer is just trying to push dead stock onto them.
Most retailers will re-order copies for people if they are available, and if a few people start asking for a title the retailer will be encouraged to try a copy or two for the shelf as they are now aware there is local interest.
Should retailers be expected to continue to stock a series that has proven unsellable at the expense of not stocking another title that may prove popular? Most shops do not have a particularly high turnover and the good comic shops like to keep a diverse selection available, which means stocking low on the titles that aren't the mainstream titles from the large publishers and often throwing money away on the “worthy” independent/ less mainstream titles that may only ever sell one or two copies.
One of the problems retailers have is they have to order two months in advance, and are unable to return anything. Therefore if something proves it has no resale value they have to wait until they have ordered high on two or three issues to find this out and cut their orders. This is a particular problem when two issues of a new series are solicited the same month. Also just counting DC and Marvel there have been over twenty new titles listed in the newest previews (granted some of these are one-shots or mini series), but retailers cannot be expected to order ALL of these and keep copies of things that aren't selling on the shelf. They simply don't have the money, or the space.
My own local comic shop has all 12 issues of Fallen Angel on the shelf, and he doesn't sell any off the shelf. In another 2 years do you expect him to have all 36 issues?
If PAD has that much confidence in the series maybe he should send a signed copy of the next jumping-on issue to every shop that requests it (with no postage charge, and to UK retailers as well) That way the profits from selling that copy (if it does sell) can pay for the retailer to carry a shelf copy of the next issue.
Also for the people wanting a Wall-Mart style giant retailer you can guarantee that they will not continue to carry a series that has low sales – let alone one with NO sales, and comics such as Bone, 30 Days of Night and Walking Dead will probably be completely overlooked. Also you will not even be able to special order things that are not stocked.
If we lose the small retailer we lose the people whose ONLY source of income is comics. These are the people who are actively trying to expand the industry by increasing sales and stocking a more diverse range to appeal to a larger audience. Many are doing this because they have a passion for the industry, but at the end of the day, if they don't appeal to fans both old and new, and keep them coming in each week they will lose their livelihoods. Most operate on minimal profit levels - usually just enough to cover the shops running costs and basic living expenses. Any other profits are plowed back into the business, often used for stocking and promoting series such as Fallen Angel, Sleeper, Gotham Central, Y The Last Man, Walking Dead, Bear, Thrud the Barbarian, She-Hulk, and Human Target, that all deserve greater sales than they have. If the large corporations get their hands on the industry and drive the independent shops out of business, within a few years you will probably be looking at only getting comics published by DC, Marvel and possibly some of the Manga publishers, such as Tokyopop and Viz. The smaller publishers will have died, and the industry will follow.
Firefly. Farscape. Angel. B5.
I'm sure there are older examples. Ring any bells? Great shows, better TV entertainment, in the opinions of most of those who actually saw them, then 95% or more of other TV shows. All gone, and gone in an untimely fashion. Why? Numbers. Access. Lack of support. Because they were different, because they didn't reach a large audience.
And I know they're not a clean parallel to comics, because of the way TV ratings work, but they suffered from the same thinking that is driving the comics industry.
I'm 33, and I've bought exactly 5 comics in the past year, and one trade. Before that, the last comic I bought was over 5 years ago, when my collecting ended. And before that, I'd spent a 12 year career as a comic collector. Why did I stop? Money, for one thing, but mostly it was that the industry had ceased holding my interest. After over a decade, the stories were repeating, everything old was new, and nothing truly original and interesting was anywhere to be found. Granted, I never much looked at Vertigo and the ilk, which was probably my loss, but the mainstream was just that, and there were other things in life that called for my attention (and cash).
So, why now have I picked up some new books? First, I got Avengers v. JLA while away for a 2 week training course, to pass the time. More an old-school (for me, anyway) nostalgic look back. The other buys? FA TPB and #14. Mostly because, while keeping in touch on PAD's website (and I'm here more because I was looking for news of his next Calhoun/Trek book) I saw his efforts to get FA to be more successful.
It's a great read, great art, compelling story that keeps you wanting to come back, and it's obviously going somewhere interesting. But without support, it's not going to succeed (success = SALES, in this case). And without sales, it's not going to get support.
TV shows face the same problems. Every network wants the next Survivor, Sielfeld, Friends, etc. (Insert Superman/Batman/X-Men/Spiderman for comics). And they are willing to spend tons of money on ADVERTISING on clones of those works, because "they" feel that it's easier to close than to create. "They" are usually poll-reading MBAs who may know next to nothing about art and creativity, but can read sales reports, and use those as a prediction of what people are watching.
Until this mentality changes, works like Firefly and Fallen Angel are going to struggle to survive, struggle just to reach an audience.
Here's the problem (aside from great works not getting the run they deserve) with this mindset: It assumes that sales/rating reflect the whole world. Sure, Survivor: Apokolipse would bring in a high 9 to 11 Neilson, while Angel: What really happened after the Dragon would rate it's normal 7. The point is, there's probably little crossover in the audience making up the 9 to 11 of Survivor and the 7 watching Angel. So from an advertisor/sales point of view, by supporting Angel, Sprite is reaching an additional 6 million homes by running an ad on Angel. If it's got ads running on Survivor, and it has a choice of also supporting Big Brother, chances are good that their going to hit the same 10 million they've already covered with the Survivor spot.
In comics terms, Sure, FA has smaller sales than Batman. But many of those people buying FA may not be buying anything else put out. It's a whole different market, and to use mainstream numbers to judge it's "success" is a fallacy. Because those consumers are NOT likely to spend their money on something else if FA goes away.
I'm not going to be watching more Reality TV now that Angel's gone. And I'm only going to check in on the "new" Enterprise to see if less Branaga and better writing can salvage that ship. But Otherwise, I'm checking out of the TV market, because I can.
Ditto for comics. If retailers would recognize this, we might have more variety of smaller print books with new, challenging, creative works getting published. Instead, we have X X books, 8 bat books, 5 Spidey books, etc. etc. Not to say that those are bad stories being told, but the audience getting served must be shrinking each month.
One of the problems retailers have is they have to order two months in advance, and are unable to return anything. Therefore if something proves it has no resale value they have to wait until they have ordered high on two or three issues to find this out and cut their orders.
Just to clarify, this is not true for Marvel. They allow retailers to modify their orders up until a week or two before the book goes on sale, basically until the absolute last deadline for telling the printer how many to print.
Also for the people wanting a Wall-Mart style giant retailer you can guarantee that they will not continue to carry a series that has low sales ? let alone one with NO sales, and comics such as Bone, 30 Days of Night and Walking Dead will probably be completely overlooked. Also you will not even be able to special order things that are not stocked.
I can special order things from my Borders or Barnes & Noble...
If we lose the small retailer we lose the people whose ONLY source of income is comics. These are the people who are actively trying to expand the industry by increasing sales and stocking a more diverse range to appeal to a larger audience.
The problem isn't the retailers you mention above, it's the retailers who don't stock a diverse range and try to appeal to only themselves and their buddies.
"Just to clarify, this is not true for Marvel. They allow retailers to modify their orders up until a week or two before the book goes on sale, basically until the absolute last deadline for telling the printer how many to print."
Diamond UK do not allow their customers to take advantage of this particular service
Diamond UK do not allow their customers to take advantage of this particular service
Diamond monopoly = bad. I agree.
Responding to various statements:
Describing a comic shop near her office, Elizabeth wrote that the owner only ordered one copy of “Fallen Angel.” I infer from that statement that she sometimes missed it because he put the copy she’d specifically requested for her pull list on the shelf? If that’s the case, I don’t understand. You’ve got a customer who _wants_ the book. Yet instead of putting it with whatever other books she gets, it goes on the shelf, where it may or may not be picked up by someone else. If it is, Elizabeth misses the books she requested. If it isn’t, the owner may decide it’s not selling and stop carrying it. In which case, Elizabeth still doesn’t get the book; nor does any walk in customers who might’ve picked it up out of curiosity, or from word of mouth.
I had a similar experience with my store regarding another title, and maybe a retailer can explain it to me. My pull list includes “The Victorian” from Penny Farthing Press, which I thought had been canceled with issue #8 a few years ago, because I hadn’t seen any more since then. Recently, I learned the book was still being published. A call to my store revealed that even though it was on my pull list, the owner wasn’t ordering it. He said he can’t and doesn’t order every book published.
I get that, but again, I specifically _asked_ for that book. I _wrote it down_ on my list. Yet he told me he stopped ordering “the Victorian” because no one was buying it. Well, I would have bought it if it had been in my bin. I can only assume he put it on the shelf, it got buried among some other stuff, and I never saw it there. So he never sold it, and stopped ordering it, and I, who would’ve bought it from him, ended up getting issues 9-23 direct from the publisher.
I understand a store’s reluctance to order multiple copies of a title that doesn’t sell very well, but if you’ve got one person ordering it, at least buy the one copy for that person. Or better yet, order two copies, at least for awhile, putting the second copy on the shelf. If the shelf copies sell, keep ordering them; if not, stop ordering them and just buy the copy for the customer you know will buy it.
My store did order #24 at my request (and presumably will get #25 when it comes out, but I’ll be sure to remind them), but when it showed up, it wasn’t in my bin. Instead, I found the _one copy_ they ordered sitting on the shelf. If I hadn’t checked, and had accepted as Gospel the owner’s mistaken belief that it hadn’t come in yet, I would’ve missed it, and would’ve had to go through the trouble of ordering it from the publisher, complete with the hassle of getting a money order and paying shipping costs.
I wonder how often stores put non-mainstream comics such as “Fallen Angel” and “The Victorian” on the shelf where they might not sell (or might get lost in the crowd), when they should be set aside as pulls. And if this is a commonplace occurrence (presumably due to lack of attention caused by all the various things that occupy a retailer’s attention and not done deliberately), what can be done to lessen the likelihood of such incidents?
Regarding “Fallen Angel” itself, which I read, a question for PAD:
On another thread (the “Whaddya think?” about #14, ) you wrote, “Issues 1 through 18 really form one big novel...” I’m curious whether you had indicated this from the get-go. I have a feeling some of the people who dropped the book figuring it would be one unending mystery, might’ve been inclined to stay had they known that the (presumably) first storyline would be wrapped up by #18. If I had been leaning towards dropping it (which I’m not), I might’ve reconsidered, if I’d known some of the mysteries would be resolved by a specific issue.
For that matter, in your initial discussions with DC about the book, did you describe it as an ongoing series, or a maxi-series? If not, do you think it would’ve made a difference in their marketing of the book?
By the way, I agree that yes, the information about Lee’s character and motivations is shown over the course of the book for those who look; and no, I don’t think you were being snotty or calling people stupid.
I do think that for whatever reason people are less willing (or have less time) to invest themselves in learning about a character or characters over time. In today’s quick-paced world, we want everything last week. PAD, to his credit, isn’t telling us everything about Lee from the get-go. And as long as the information about her, the other characters, and Bete Noire itself is revealed over the course of the book, then he’s playing fair with the reading audience.
On another note, Kingbobb posted that “Firefly”, “Farscape”, “Angel”, and “B5” were all gone, “in an untimely fashion.”
I can only speak about “Angel” and “B5”, having never seen the other two. “Angel” should have continued, but “B5” was not gone in an untimely fashion. It was always intended to run for five seasons. The novel was done.
Or perhaps you were referring to “Crusade”, which I never saw, but from what I’ve heard, agree was canceled prematurely.
Kingbobb said he’s checking out of the TV market. So am I, to a large degree. Most of what I watch now is on DVD. In fact, as of last Friday, I will be watching the entire run of “Buffy” (and beginning concurrently with season 4 of that show) “Angel” on DVD on a daily basis. That will take me into December, with a possible delay for season five of “Angel” if it hasn’t been released by then.
The only first-run show I expect to be watching in the fall on a regular or semi-regular basis is “Smallville”, and there’s no guarantee I’ll watch it every week (unless, of course, it’s really good).
Similarly, I’m reading very few superhero books right now, though I may jump back on board “Amazing Spider-Man” and see how I like what JMS is doing with JJJ and old webhead. In fact, with the apparent cancellation of “the Crossovers”, the only superhero titles I’m reading are “Teen Titans” and “Astro City”, and the latter is published, what? quarterly? And if I’m in the mood to read a superhero book, I can sit down and re-read Wolfman and Perez’ “New Teen Titans”, PAD’s “Hulk”, and “Supergirl”, “Fury of Firestorm”, Barr’s “Batman and the Outsiders” or Giffen and Dematties’ “Justice League”, to name a few.
The other books on my list include(d) “Fallen Angel”, “Bone” (recently concluded), “The Victorian” (concludes with #25), “Leave it to Chance” (hopefully it’ll return one day), “Ruse” (now canceled due to Crossgen’s financial problems), “Akiko”, “Mythstalkers” and “Liberty Meadows.” As you can see, these are a bit outside the standard superhero stable.
Speaking of “Teen Titans”, could someone explain how Slade Wilson, AKA Deathstroke the Terminator went from being called “Terminator” is the New Teen Titans and other books of that era, to “Deathstroke” in the current “Teen Titans”, “Identity Crisis” and wherever else he’s showing up, today? The character pre-dates the movie Terminator by nearly half a decade (first appearing in 1980), so I can’t see how that could have any connection.
But to tie this probably too-long post up, I think one thing retailers can do for books like “Fallen Angel” is be sure the people who order it get their copies, because you know those copies will sell; and to remember that Kingbobb is probably right that a reader of “Fallen Angel” might not pick up something else in its place if it’s canceled. I don’t have any plans to do so. If it were canceled, that money would likely go towards something other than comics.
Also, in addition to pull copies for customers, put at least one copy on the shelf for at least a few months, for possible walk-in customers. I believe that’s how I first found “Mythstalkers” (though it may have been a CBG review.
Rick
Describing a comic shop near her office, Elizabeth wrote that the owner only ordered one copy of “Fallen Angel.” I infer from that statement that she sometimes missed it because he put the copy she’d specifically requested for her pull list on the shelf? If that’s the case, I don’t understand. You’ve got a customer who _wants_ the book. Yet instead of putting it with whatever other books she gets, it goes on the shelf, where it may or may not be picked up by someone else. If it is, Elizabeth misses the books she requested. If it isn’t, the owner may decide it’s not selling and stop carrying it. In which case, Elizabeth still doesn’t get the book; nor does any walk in customers who might’ve picked it up out of curiosity, or from word of mouth.
I had a similar experience with my store regarding another title, and maybe a retailer can explain it to me. My pull list includes “The Victorian” from Penny Farthing Press, which I thought had been canceled with issue #8 a few years ago, because I hadn’t seen any more since then. Recently, I learned the book was still being published. A call to my store revealed that even though it was on my pull list, the owner wasn’t ordering it. He said he can’t and doesn’t order every book published.
I get that, but again, I specifically _asked_ for that book. I _wrote it down_ on my list. Yet he told me he stopped ordering “the Victorian” because no one was buying it. Well, I would have bought it if it had been in my bin. I can only assume he put it on the shelf, it got buried among some other stuff, and I never saw it there. So he never sold it, and stopped ordering it, and I, who would’ve bought it from him, ended up getting issues 9-23 direct from the publisher.
Now this....I simply don't get.
A customer orders. You got the interest, you got the sale....but through your own bungling, you lose it.
No wonder comic book shops are failing....
I had a similar experience with my store regarding another title, and maybe a retailer can explain it to me. My pull list includes ?The Victorian? from Penny Farthing Press, which I thought had been canceled with issue #8 a few years ago, because I hadn?t seen any more since then. Recently, I learned the book was still being published. A call to my store revealed that even though it was on my pull list, the owner wasn?t ordering it. He said he can?t and doesn?t order every book published.
I get that, but again, I specifically _asked_ for that book. I _wrote it down_ on my list. Yet he told me he stopped ordering ?the Victorian? because no one was buying it. Well, I would have bought it if it had been in my bin. I can only assume he put it on the shelf, it got buried among some other stuff, and I never saw it there. So he never sold it, and stopped ordering it, and I, who would?ve bought it from him, ended up getting issues 9-23 direct from the publisher.
Honestly, you should let your retailer know that this isn't particularly professional behavior and that if it continues, you'll take your business elsewhere. This kind of lackadaisical attitude is inexcusable. If you're a regular customer and not just some schmo off the street setting up his first pull list, this is a guaranteed sale. Your retailer is a fool for not ordering this series for you.
A similar situation is with retailers who do fully stock pull lists, but grab copies from them when they've run out of in-store stock, leaving the people who actually went to the trouble of setting up the pull list with bupkis.
Congratulations go to Peter for theis prerogative!
I'm tempted to buy the trade on top of the individual issues that I have to getn the bookplate! (can we send pics with the individual issues instead? :p)
I've pimped out this title to anyone who would listen and will continue doing so at every chance. I'm part of one of the afore-mentioned big-hype websites (411mania, now turned www.comicsnexus.com ) after all! :) As for my comics retailer, despicable as he is, he does one thing right and DOES carry copies of FALLEN ANGEL, god bless his sweet mancunian bandana-wearing soul.
I also want to say that I loved the idea for the fan-written story contest, and I do hope you go ahead with it Peter, it will surely draw focus to the book.
Greek out
I really don't get the whole comic store thing. Can't your fans just order a copy of Fallen Angel off the internet Pad?
Describing a comic shop near her office, Elizabeth wrote that the owner only ordered one copy of “Fallen Angel.” I infer from that statement that she sometimes missed it because he put the copy she’d specifically requested for her pull list on the shelf?
Actually, no. I put it on my pull list. Then when PAD posted that an issue came out, I'd go by the shop. It wouldn't be in. Or the next week. Or sometimes the week after. Finally one month - FA #8 or 9, I think - it never arrived at all. That's when I started going to the other shop.Why would he screw himself out of a guaranteed sale? I'd like to say it was just poor business practices, but his shop is booming.
Honestly? It might have been because I was the only female customer I ever saw go in there. Maybe not, but I've bumped into that quite often in comic shops - because the comic readership is so predominantly male, they assume female readers are just indulging a passing interest and won't represent any real customer base. I cannot express how wrong this is. Still, as a female customer, I get more strange looks than title suggestions in a comic shop.
Fortunately, the other shop is helpful and well-organized. And they stock several copies of "Fallen Angel" on the shelf, PAD. No back copies as of yet, but maybe that means they sell out. :)
In response to my post, Ralf Haring wrote, in part, "Your retailer is a fool for not ordering this series for you."
What's even more odd about my conversation with the store owner about why I hadn't gotten "The Victorian" was his revelation that they didn't consult the pull lists to see how many copies of a particular book to set aside for customers. No, what they do, according to him, is order their usual stuff (presumably from previews), and a few independent books, and then set aside copies for pull customers based on what they'd ordered. But if they didn't order it, they can't set it aside.
That's right, they don't consult my pull list (or anyone else's) to see what they should order; they order stuff, and then consult the pull lists to see what to set aside. If they happened to get titles that are on that list, said titles go in my bin. Otherwise, nada.
I almost had a similar problem with "Akiko" as I did with "The Victorian", only I know Mark Crilley, so I knew "Akiko" was still being published. So I would ride herd about that book. In my conversation with the store owner about "The Victorian", "Akiko" came up, and I got the impression that he had initially stopped ordering it, even though I had _written it down_ on my list. And only my persistance got him to continue ordering it.
Does this make any sense? Why stop ordering a book someone wants to buy?
Man, I miss Rock's Comics. Of course, back then, all I got were superhero titles, so you'd know they'd be on the shelf; but even so, Rock ordered books from your list, he didn't consult your list after the fact. Same with Dave's, after Rock's closed. Sadly, he two is gone from the comics retail scene.
But this place? I don't know. The staff is friendly, and the owner seems to want to do right by his customers, but I still don't get their ordering system. Maybe I should go to another store I've sometimes visited, even if it is 15 miles (at least) away, and isn't conveniently located (with a small detour) between work and home.
Rick
That should be "he, too"
Stupid, stupid misspelling creatures!
Rick
"I have a feeling some of the people who dropped the book figuring it would be one unending mystery, might’ve been inclined to stay had they known that the (presumably) first storyline would be wrapped up by #18."
I could have, I suppose. And perhaps they would have been inclined to stay. But you know what? I'm betting that the response would have been something like this:
"Eighteen issues? Forget it. I'll wait for the trade."
Tell me I'm wrong.
PAD
This is an interesting thread going on here. I have an idea for retailers that might help somewhat. For retailers that still have copies of Fallen Angel 1-6 in the store, bag them up together and offer the set at the same cost as the trade paperback. Try this also with issues 7-12. This gives the customers a chance to pick up the individual issues to try, and then they MIGHT be tempted to continue picking up the monthly issues. And if your store is missing some of the issues, you might still be able to order some of the back issues from Diamond (not sure about the first 12 issues though).
Just a thought...
Just a note of clarification.
Ignorant does not mean stupid. Ignorant means not knowing. If one is incapable of learning, one might be stupid, but I never called anyone stupid.
I also must agree with one point that Peter made. Many readers are lazy (my words, not Peter's). It is difficult for them to follow a story that requires thought. It is to be expected, I think, that a reader would gradually grow to be able to follow more complicated storylines after they had been reading for awhile. Apparently, this is not so.
Maybe all comics should be written with footnotes on every page so that the reader can understand what is happening. Or maybe we should have more art panels that have a caption saying what is going on. Sorta like the panel of Superman flying over Metropolis with the caption reading: "As Superman flys over Metropolis..."
Well, after this and the other threads, I gotta say....readers are not stupid....at least not as stupid as SOME retailers are.
You'da think that the stupider retailers go washed out in the implosion of the late 90s....
(And what I'm REALLY afraid is that they WERE).
I wrote: "I have a feeling some of the people who dropped the book figuring it would be one unending mystery, might’ve been inclined to stay had they known that the (presumably) first storyline would be wrapped up by #18."
PAD responded with: "I could have, I suppose. And perhaps they would have been inclined to stay. But you know what? I'm betting that the response would have been something like this:
"Eighteen issues? Forget it. I'll wait for the trade."
Tell me I'm wrong.
PAD"
To which I can only say that if I had been on the fence about the book, and had known from the get-go the mysteries would be answered by issue 18, I would have bought the individual issues, because I'd have no guarantee there would be a trade.
Rick
I'm one of those who dropped the book early. I would have bought every issue had I known that they would complete a story. Likewise, if I knew (one way or the other) if Lee was the former Supergirl, and that this would be later revealed, I would have stuck with the series. But with no useful data concerning the book, and the high cost of comics, I dropped it in favour of a series I could get more information on. You push individual issues all you want (my comic shop faithfully displays a copy of two of FA each week, byt the way), but with so little to go one, what did you expect to drive sales? The DC logo?
frustrated,
Andrew
Please pardon the above typos, and my frustration with the way this comic has been pitched.
One more item to add - trades or back issues, I would still go back and buy a copy of each that I'm missing, now that I know a bit more about the series. However, I can't find them.
Here is an aspect where I believe the industry of late has hurt new series: if you don't jump in with #1, how are you supposed to get caught up on the story? Hear good things as of issue #6? Tough - no back issues to go pick up. Low print runs and few or no back issues makes it hard to jump in after the fact.
I have loved Fallen Angel since day one. I have all the single issues, and I will probably buy a trade to take advantage of this offer. I just moved into an apartment which is no where near any good comic shops, so I am using mailordercomics.com. In my next order, it will include the Fallen Angel trade.
"I have a feeling some of the people who dropped the book figuring it would be one unending mystery, might’ve been inclined to stay had they known that the (presumably) first storyline would be wrapped up by #18."
I could have, I suppose. And perhaps they would have been inclined to stay. But you know what? I'm betting that the response would have been something like this:
"Eighteen issues? Forget it. I'll wait for the trade."
Tell me I'm wrong.
PAD
Well, you wouldn't have lost me as a reader after issue 12 for one. I gave it a year's worth of issues to try and impress me, and was still undecided on continuing. In the end I dropped it to start picking up Sleeper - mainly because I was convinced that I'd never get any answers.
Oddly enough, issue 12 was my single favourite issue of the run, and I almost carried on. But alas, I'd already asked my retailer to stop pulling a copy for me. And issue 12 was the first issue that I actually liked Lee as a character.
Another 6 issues? I've read enough of your work and enjoyed it that I probably would have gone for it.
As a retailer all I can say is that we try but unfortunately, there's only so much money to go around. We don't stock "Fallen Angel" but we do order it for those who have requested it. We do stock other "lower-profile" books that have had interest expressed and sold well off the shelves but at the end of the day, we can only carry so much.
And while some of this has been said above, how long should I carry something? I stocked "Supergirl" for 2 years and didn't sell a single copy so, I stopped stocking it. Does that make me a bad retailer? In a sense since I should have dropped the book a year earlier and put the money into something else.
In our budget, we allow for some cash to be spent on trying books that wouldn't normally be on the shelves. And we have to cycle through those books until we find one that works. When we do, we can move that book from the "try" budget to the "regular" budget and then try something else. At the end of the day, it does come down to dollars.
We retailers are like any segment of the comics industry; there are good ones and bad ones, just like companies, creator and fans. We all have to share the blame. Where are the promo posters for "FA" for me to put up ion my store? Where is the fan asking about the book (instead of just looking for it, not seeing it and walking out)? To put the onus completely on the retailer is false and to blame all of us (all 3000 of us) for the poor service of a few is a disservice.
If you have a problem with your local comic shop, point it out to them (politely). If you are wanting a book, ask for it, even if it's one copy (DC is pretty good about making copies available for a couple months after a book has been released). If everyone works together, quality books can survive but to blame one segment of the industry is wrong.
As for Marvel, you can make adjustments 3 weeks prior to release date and many of us take advantage of that, especially to reduce the orders ;)
Jay
Happy Harbor Comics & Toys
I bought the book Q-squared. Inside is a strange marking in black marker. It looks like someone did it signing the book. I cannot make out if it is supposed to be a form of "Peter David" in any form. It looks to have been done quickly. Is there someone that could try and identify it? I could email a photo of it?
thanks
bobby
thank you very much for your help. You guys 70727 rock, thanks again.