And yes, we're going to be tough on spoilers this time. Why do you think we shrinkwrapped the book?
Posted by Glenn Hauman at August 18, 2004 04:30 PM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingCan't read it. If I open the bag, it won't be mint anymore. ;)
I can see the problem of having a meaningful discusion without spoiling...lot's of stuff. The big surprise at the end came and hit me like a 2x4 to the back of the head. I was totally unprepared, though I supposed I should have been.
I was also taken totally off-guard by Benny's little secret. I'd pretty much discounted him as a simple bit player in Bette Noir and I suppose I haven't seen anything to change that assessment. However, his secret a little surprise to prep for the big surprise. It also evokes a certain amount of irony because it goes very well with Asia's "drinking problem" in my mind.
The giant robot was the best.
Wait, that was an advertisement? Shoot.
It made me sad.
How can a book I love reading so much be so close to going bye bye? It is sorta like the last few sweet breaths of air before sinking beneath the waves.
Great pacing. Amazing characters. Perhaps one of the best written books out there (oh, yeah, and the art's good, too). Nice bomb dropping ta boot.
And the Benny thing was priceless. I love that it was left it hanging.
If it get's cancelled, I hope you'll find somehere else to continue Lee's story. It would be a shame otherwise.
Later,
Chip
No, what's he's saying is that if sales don't turn around, then the series would be cancelled. Or if we don't move a ton more of the trades.
Buy copies for friends to give as gifts.
PAD
Seriously, despite my flip comment above about the 'centerfold', this really was a surprising and vibrant issue with a least two "OH MY GOD" moments. I read it last out of my stack of weekly comics—and that's a compliment, because the anal retentive fan in me reads my weekly stack o' comics in a personally-arranged order: the ones I'm most excited about and want to read most, I read last. FA #14 didn't disappoint. It has a visual image in there that will be with you for a long, long time.
There's a lot of good books out on the stands this week: I especially enjoyed BATMAN ADVENTURES and, God help me, SHE-HULK, but FALLEN ANGEL was the pick of the lot this week. Don't miss it. Buy one for yourself, one for a friend, buy one for the dog, don't pass it up.
And if you are picking up X-FORCE #1 this week and not FALLEN ANGEL, well, mercy on your soul, pal.
Now this was, by far, the best issue of the series thus far.
The writing was great, two moments bitch-slapped me out of nowhere and the art was actually very excellent here.
But I almost got in a wreck twice trying to get the damned thing out of the plastic on my drive home...ARGH!
I am so frustrated. I rarely get flustered due to the fact that most situations are salvageable if not outright fixable but this case is an exception. I’m on vacation right now and the comic book retailer in Modesto Ca does not carry Fallen Angel. I am now starting to understand why my favorite comics books get cancelled. After all how can new readers (or existing ones) pick up new books if those books are not available to consumers in the first place? I just hope my local guy has copies of this amazing book left when I get home.
Well, my store must've ripped off all the shrinkwrapping (which would explain why it took so GD long to put it on the shelves). Anyway, my no-spoliers review would be "low-key but good." I really liked how Asia's handling what happened last ish. Benny's, um, thing freaked me the hell out. And the ending... well, like Dolf said, Scheisse. Heilige Scheisse.
Also liked the BID column in the new issue of CBG. "Amazonian 2x4." Heh.
This was the first issue I've bought since #3. I'm not sure who everyone is except for Lee and Dolph, but it was... intriguing. I'll be picking it up next month.
Thanks PAD.
The two surprise moments totally knocked me for a loop. And I loved Asia's playing with strraws, too...
Quoth Michael Pullman: And the ending... well, like Dolf said, Scheisse. Heilige Scheisse.
Okay, nit to pick...don't mix your English and German idioms, mate. I never heard a German say the above--actually "Ach du Scheiße!" is pretty much the equivalent. (Don't ask how it translates...)
That said, to sum up FALLEN ANGEL #14, powerful revelations and all: "Ach du Scheiße!"
Issues like this one remind me why I love comics as a medium so much.
Thanks, PAD!
~Gary
Well, actually Heilige Scheiße is a term used in Germany... in the same sense Holy Shit is... :-D
*grumbles* I must've been in the wrong section of Germany then, lol...
Hmm, maybe they bastardized the usage from us?
~G.
This may trouble you, Mr. David, but I wasn't all-out surprised by the "big surprise." In fact, the fact that a "big surprise" was sprung in a book with troubled sales should be expected. I mean, if "Fallen Angel" was surpassing "Spider-Man" in sales, there'd be no need to change anything, right?
From my (admittedly limited) time as a comics reader, it seems that many books on the verge don't try to shake up things to avoid cancellation. Admittedly, doing so is very difficult, when titles are shipped to the printer something like 3 months in advance of the release date. Perhaps everyone thought everything was going fine, and couldn't react in time when the sales dipped.
Also, when you're trying to build a consistent body of work, and not do "stunting" as we call it in TV, it's possible for this to backfire.
I'm pleased there was a "big surprise," but I wonder if it was "big" enough to change things. It will affect everyone who's been reading the book a while, but will it draw in folks who've never read it before?
Awesome issue. I think this is one of the few comics where the one issue stories are as strong as the arcs. Hellacool cliffhanger, I'm on the "didn't see that one coming" team too.
I am relying the sales problem to my fellow fans here on the East Coast. I don't believe in trades as a rule, but for this book we will be more then happy to be vocal as heck on how much we like it. I'm getting tired of losing quality books. Don't get me wrong, I love my share of retreded super-hero hype books, but they only stand up if we got some really good stuff to stand up with it.
So PAD you can count on Montclair New Jersey, Manhattan and Brooklyn comic book stores to start hearing some noise on Fallen Angel. I got my E-Mail and Word program fired up for some serious letter writing too. Who's with me?
PS my daughter wanted me to post that she loves Fallen Angels hood, she wants to be Fallen Angel for Holloween. See, you got fans in the most interesting places (even if I can't let her read a lot of the stories. Sorry dude, she's only six.)
"This may trouble you, Mr. David, but I wasn't all-out surprised by the "big surprise." In fact, the fact that a "big surprise" was sprung in a book with troubled sales should be expected. I mean, if "Fallen Angel" was surpassing "Spider-Man" in sales, there'd be no need to change anything, right?"
What's really sad is that it hasn't occurred to you that I haven't "changed anything." The developments in issue #14 were foreshadowed in dialogue as early as issue #3 and were set into motion in the opening pages of issue #7 which, if you go back and re-read, you'll realize. It wouldn't matter in the least whether the book was outselling Spider-Man or X-Men. I wasn't sitting there, looking at the sales charts and thinking, "Oh, I know what I should do to boost sales!" This series has a storyline and is actually ABOUT something, and it's at this point that the readers are learning what precisely that is.
PAD
Surely you don't suggest that I open the bag? I'd sooner cut off my left arm than de-mint this collectible!
I am german, and we usually say (if at all, of course) "Heilige Kacke!" which means the same as "Heilige Scheisse!", just another word for "shit". "Ach du Scheisse", "Oh Scheisse" or just "shit" (which is actually the most common word) are used even more often.
I haven`t got that issue yet, therefore I just want to say I am really hoping that Fallen Angel will continue!
I had to smile when I read about the use of a certain German swear word. It always amuses me that at least the stronger swear words are often frowned upon in English episodes and it seems also comics (Well, of course on the other hand there are exceptions like "Bad Boys II" but this is a movie, of course!)but it is ok to use foreign ones. "Merde" means the same as "Scheisse", by they way, and I assume "Grozit" as well.
By the way, my husband still doesn`t believe me that there is no "Scheisskopf" ("shit head") swear word in the German language :).
"did fallen angel just jump the shark????"
Of course not. If she tried, the Shark would run screaming...
This was a great issue for many reasons and I can only hope the book's sales pick up. If I talk about the book any more at my comic book store, I think they are going to gag me.
While I enjoyed issue #13, I felt it slowed the momentum that the book was gathering. I can't forget my response to Lee's smile at the end of #11. And #12 was a nice flashback explanation of the beginning of the Lee/Juris relationship. This provided a nice backdrop to #11 since Juris' had just dumped Lee. Then the trade got released.
Then came issue #13 which seemed to slow down the main story. And any new readers brought in by the trade would read a cipherous story in which Lee has little or nothing to do.
I liked #13, don't get me wrong. It's just that I loved #14.
As for the major twist dropped at the end of the issue, I hope it doesn't diminish the emotional impact incident that Lee re-lived while holding the shard.
"This series has a storyline and is actually ABOUT something, and it's at this point that the readers are learning what precisely that is."
Now I'm REALLY tense. PAD, please tell me Lee's story will continue should DC make the stupid decision to cancel it. I've enjoyed the HELL outta the journey to date, and I'd hate to think I might miss what this book is "actually about".
I am intrigued to no end.
Later,
Chip
"I am german, and we usually say (if at all, of course) "Heilige Kacke!" which means the same as "Heilige Scheisse!", just another word for "shit". "Ach du Scheisse", "Oh Scheisse" or just "shit" (which is actually the most common word) are used even more often."
Which is actually what Dolf says, just in case there's any confusion. In the book, Dolf, upon learning of a situation, simply says "Scheisse." To which the Angel ruefully replies, "Yeah. Deep Scheisse." Which of course isn't an attempt on her part to speak German but simply empathize with Dolf's reaction.
PAD
I haven't had a chance to hit the store yet this week and pick it up, but there is something I've been wondering. I think Fallen Angel is a good book, although I wouldn't say it's my favorite work by you.
What I'm curious about is just why it's not set in the mainstream DCU. Is it creator owned? I was under the impression that it wasn't. I know people, a good amount of people, people who I don't necessarily blame, who would pick it up just because it was in continuity. And it didn't have to be deep into continuity. Is it a matter of pride?
I'm sure you could get away with avoiding crossovers and what not. Before there was a vertigo line, I certainly don't remember Sandman having to crossover with War of the Gods. Maybe it's just that Fallen Angel might not work in a "world with Superman in it." But you hardly have to use him. There are certain characters who would fit in and out of this world fairly well: Vic Sage, Cameron Chase, Detective John Jones.
I'm not trying to offend, or tell you how to do your job. I'm just curious, as I like the book and want it to succeed, and I'd see this as a way of considerably boosting sales.
Matt
The ending of this issue floored me.
And call me sick, but I thought the Benny scene was pretty damn funny.
"I'm not trying to offend, or tell you how to do your job. I'm just curious, as I like the book and want it to succeed, and I'd see this as a way of considerably boosting sales."
I would be perfectly happy to have the book set in the DCU, or at least relate to it. Granted, the book is creator owned, but I don't believe for a second that legalities couldn't be arranged so that DC characters could guest star. After all, if Marvel and DC have found ways to publish character crossovers for the last twenty five years, I hardly think that having Clark Kent show up in a book that DC is *already publishing* is an insurmountable challenge.
I swear, if "Sandman" had been published under the obstacles that "Fallen Angel" has faced--no DCU guest stars, a "For Mature Readers" label, a price increase in less than a year, minimal publicity--I wonder if it would have made it beyond the first year. And in today's market, with the same strictures? Forget it.
PAD
Great issue.
It does continue to improve.
the last page reveal didn't suprise me...I think I already suspected, but it was still revealed in a nice and moody way.
Benny's secret was much more suprising (also it didn't happen on the last page - so that sort of stuff always has more of a chance to suprising me) and will make me look at him different from here on out.
Do we know why Angel wanted to talk to the Boston guy? I don't think so - I will have to reread it tonight - but I look forward to finding out.
Also further exploration of Angel's powers are always interesting.
So all in all - lots of good stuff.
Great art as usual.
Keep it up!
But you are not ALLOWED to have guests stars? I always assumed it was your decision NOT to have any. Thats too bad. I am not a fan of crossovers, but I don't like the idea of them being not allowed. I hope sales start improve on this great title!
"But you are not ALLOWED to have guests stars? I always assumed it was your decision NOT to have any. Thats too bad. I am not a fan of crossovers, but I don't like the idea of them being not allowed. I hope sales start improve on this great title!"
Nope, not allowed. DC reps made a point of saying--at conventions and on line, no less--that "Fallen Angel" is outside the DCU. Which was, from a sales point of view, akin to painting a huge sign on the book that says, "You Can Skip This Title." Which many fans, and retailers, have done. More and more I keep hearing about fans complaining that local stores don't carry it (as we've seen mentioned yet again on this very thread). Or fans who are interested in finding the back issues cannot do so because the stores ordered minimally or not at all.
This is not to be confused with the stores which do stock it and claim that readers won't give it the time of day...because, of course, it's not in the DCU.
I don't know how the hell we're supposed to turn around sales when the greatest tool a comic can have--positive word of mouth, which we have in abundance--runs smack into the twin brick walls of retailer unavailability and fan resistance to something not DCU.
PAD
With the no DCU guest stars edict, could you not sort of get around that similar to the Thomas/could be Batman issue?
Wouldn't the Phantom Stranger lend itself to this type of idea? After all, no one knows what the hell he is.
As for Superman, (just spit balling here) what about a perfect imperfect clone sans any costume? a messed up face, no S-costume, zombie-like appearance and nature but some familiar and damn scary powers.
Maybe with the deck stacked against you, a little in house "we told you no DCU guest stars" controversy would get the book talked about.
The latest ish was amazing by the way. The only series I've ever read where I think each new issue is the best one of the series.
I don't know if plugging stores is allowed here, but the comic book store I go to stocks the book on the shelf as well as for subscription customers.
Best Comics & Hobby stocks it.
1300 Jericho Turnpike, New Hyde Park, NY.
They also do mail order, the website is www.bestcomics.com
I thought the issue was terrific, and I have to say you've been doing a great job lately of writing issues that are friendly to new readers but are still entertaining for people who've been around for a while. That must be a tricky thing to do.
I haven't read it yet, so I skipped over all the other comments to post this:
Man, I hope DC pulled in a lot of money for that "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow" promotion. Ten of the comics I picked up this week were bagged with that disc. TEN!! That means I now have a dozen copies and there are still two shipments left to go for this cover month...Coasters, anyone?
Paul
If you want to be pedantic, couldn't you argue that Dolf has appeared before in DCU comics?
I've been reading Fallen Angel since the first issue came out, and unfortunately it has just never caught on for me. So I've been reluctant to chip in on these threads. But since I have some points in mind, this seems like as good a time as any to air them.
It's hard to pin down where exactly it's falling short for me. My best guess at this point is that it doesn't feel grounded, by which I mean I still feel - 14 issues in - like I lack a vast amount of context necessary to appreciate the story.
All of the characters still feel like ciphers to me. Lee of course is the ultimate cipher, full of secrets such as where she came from, why she's in Bete Noire, why she does what she does, what her life is really like. While a few small facts have been tossed out here and there, she's not someone I understand or can relate to, and I haven't gotten the feeling like she's being either revealed or developed. The other characters tend to be undeveloped (Dolf), enigmatic (Juris), or downright unpleasant (Mariah and Asia).
As a result, it feels like Fallen Angel is a series without a protagonist: We can't see the world through Lee's eyes, because we can't get inside her head, and no one else is important enough to provide the series' point-of-view. So it reads to me like a series of events happening to characters I don't really care about, viewed only from the outside.
I also find Bete Noire perplexing. Where is it? Is it supposed to be in "our world", or some strange parallel world? Is it an unusual city, or do all cities in this world have these peculiar happenings occurring in the shadows? If it's unusual, why is it unusual? What brings all these weird people to this city? (Clearly not to socialize with each other and build a community, since they spend much of their time kicking the crap out of each other.)
I've been reading hoping for some moments of revelation, when I'll come to understand everything better, but don't feel they've happened. Contrast with other series with similarly unorthodox settings and casts of peculiar characters - say, GrimJack or Dreadstar - both of which were constantly setting up and resolving major mysteries, where I felt there was always the promise of something important happening right around the corner.
Now, all this may say more about me than about the series - perhaps I haven't been paying enough attention (I will admit I have not gone back and re-read the series, so I haven't read the early issues since they came out a year or so ago and my memory is probably lacking at this point). Or about both - Fallen Angel is delivering things that other people enjoy but which don't grab my interest. Or maybe all of my analysis here is horsehockey and the series is just "not for me", and leave it at that.
In the end, the two bits of information about Lee revealed in #14 felt like just two more bits of information. While Lee had strong emotional reactions to both, the first was clearly not to be resolved until a future confrontation, while the second I felt lacked depth. She's upset because...? Well, there are lots of possible "becauses", and I don't understand her character well enough to know (or even guess) which one is truly the reason.
It didn't resonate with me.
(P.S.: I am in no way claiming that my reactions explain why other fans aren't buying the series. This is just my own perspective.)
The reveal of Benny's secret and his nickname were very good.What did the young bostoninan want??I found the deja vu conversation between Lee ,Mariah,Slate funny when considering the opening exchange was exactly the same(of course its deja vu right?)Does everyone drink gin and tonic in Bete Noir?
Without spoiling is the "revelation " about her powers related to the the revelation at the end,or are they unrelated ?
BTW the Captain Sky or whatever promotion is very annoying.Why not just have a slip or website inside the comic?I hate feeling like im wasting things by throwing the damn disks away.
All things revealed in the issue were good as usual,and really hopt the series sticks around or you are able to find another outlet in the event of the unthinkable cancellation of Fallen Angel.
Peter:
I like FALLEN ANGEL a lot. The current issue did not disappoint. The scenes with Benny were very amusing. You are doing some of your best writing on this title. On the other hand, I am a 42 year old comic junkie. I wonder what the demographics are for this title. What age bracket is buying this title? I know one thing, forget the sex and violence, this is still a very mature title.
Has anyone pointed out that like the other Angel(the tv character), Lee's journey through life is one of seeking redemption?
Hey Peter, if DC won't let you use their characters to guest star, what about a Marvel crossover?
I can see the Hulk blowing in to Bete Noire. Really.
Wasn't Chris Claremont's "Soverign Seven" from a few years back was a creator-owned book that was set in the DCU? (I think he used Darkseid and Power Girl, if I remember correctly.)
Peter,
I didn't realize that it was DC's edict and not your own. Then again, I wasn't sure if it was creator owned or not either, so what did I know? Well, I suppose that's fairly rough, then. It's a shame you can't get the proper editorial support on this one.
Matt
Posted by Michael Rawdon:
We can't see the world through Lee's eyes, because we can't get inside her head.
Posted by J. Alexander:
Has anyone pointed out that like the other Angel(the tv character), Lee's journey through life is one of seeking redemption?
---
See, I don't know about you guys, but I think Lee's almost on a quest for punishment. She punishes herself every day, doesn't feel that she deserves happiness, and yet paradoxically, still has some residual urge to do what's right, even if it comes out twisted sometimes. She's in denial of almost everything she is, like a, shall we say, supergirl ;) who has failed in everything she's tried to do, and yet tries anyway. She says she doesn't care about anything. Yet she tries to make a difference, even though it seems at times that she's setting herself up to fail or to do something she knows is wrong - i.e. torturing Mariah to get the Shard. She knew she was doing something reprehensible and didn't care. At least on the surface. It's almost as though, for every act of good she does, she tries to make herself do something horrible, because she doesn't feel she deserves to be heroic, doesn't feel she's worthy of the mantle of a hero. She's in constant flux in her own beliefs. She's as fallen a hero, as fallen an angel, as one can be. She's given up. She doesn't try to be a hero because it's the right thing to do. I think she tries to be a hero because it's the only thing she knows how to do. I get the sense of Lee being almost on autopilot in her life. Reminds me a lot of Season Six-era Buffy, actually (or even of Apropos at the end of "Tong Lashing"). Nothing makes sense to her, her life doesn't make sense, but she goes on ahead with what she does because it's all she has left. She's so devoid of feeling and yet so full of emotion. I love Lee. She's the best character in almost any medium and she's such a self-made paradox. Psychoanalyzing her is delicious.
Last thing - I think the most telling statement about Lee was from issue #10:
DOLF: Why? You claim to care about nothing.
LEE: Could be I'm full of shit.
God, I love this character. Peter, PROMISE you'll do something with her in novel form if the comic gets cancelled. I think she's the richest character you've ever created and I couldn't bear to see her just fade away into nothingness and obscurity, like Anima back in the mid-Nineties.
Stupid DC.
good character issue - i loved the little mini-storylines for several characters that were all acomplished in a single issue - or even 2 or 3 pages no less. Now that's storytelling economy, good work. Nice bunch of 3, count 'em, 3 different bombs that were dropped this issue to varrying degrees. I loved Asia Minor's drunk scene. The straws in the ears slightly bent at the bendy part - GREAT detail. Did you write that in or was that the artist on thier own who did it? "Thirsty customer" is a great line and I'm gonna use it as often as I can from now on.
Total fanboy pointless flip comment moment - the book has been good, but I don't think we've seen any smashie-smashie since Lee took out that hell dog way back in issue 9 I think it was. Sure the book isn't about smashie-smashie, but you can write action man, give a brother a little head cracking. (ok, I just realized that there was the short sequence in issue 12, that was a real good one too, but you know what I mean. smashie-smashie, man!)
"See, I don't know about you guys, but I think Lee's almost on a quest for punishment. She punishes herself every day, doesn't feel that she deserves happiness, and yet paradoxically, still has some residual urge to do what's right, even if it comes out twisted sometimes. She's in denial of almost everything she is, like a, shall we say, supergirl ;) who has failed in everything she's tried to do, and yet tries anyway. She says she doesn't care about anything. Yet she tries to make a difference, even though it seems at times that she's setting herself up to fail or to do something she knows is wrong - i.e. torturing Mariah to get the Shard. She knew she was doing something reprehensible and didn't care. At least on the surface. It's almost as though, for every act of good she does, she tries to make herself do something horrible, because she doesn't feel she deserves to be heroic, doesn't feel she's worthy of the mantle of a hero. She's in constant flux in her own beliefs. She's as fallen a hero, as fallen an angel, as one can be. She's given up. She doesn't try to be a hero because it's the right thing to do. I think she tries to be a hero because it's the only thing she knows how to do. I get the sense of Lee being almost on autopilot in her life. Reminds me a lot of Season Six-era Buffy, actually (or even of Apropos at the end of "Tong Lashing"). Nothing makes sense to her, her life doesn't make sense, but she goes on ahead with what she does because it's all she has left. She's so devoid of feeling and yet so full of emotion. I love Lee. She's the best character in almost any medium and she's such a self-made paradox. Psychoanalyzing her is delicious."
Trust a woman to completely and totally get it right.
PAD
Trust a woman to completely and totally get it right.
Okay, but we're still gonna get some smashy-smashy, right? ;-)
Yes, Mr. David, you did foreshadow the "Big Surprise." But you didn't have to pick up that particular thread. Again without spoiling things, similar "threads" have been left in many other books, and no one bothers to pick them up.
I hope you don't think I was accusing you of doing cheap pandering to get new readers. You don't do that, or if you do, I haven't seen it. But it was entirely possible to avoid the current situation as you plotted this book. Steering directly into the situation indicates a conscious choice to...to use the only metaphor my sleepy brain can come up with..."ramp up the voltage."
Now if you had done something like bring out qualities in Lee that had no preparation and no evidence in previous issues...like a certain nearly-forgotten Marvel cowboy from about a year ago...that would be a cheap stunt and undeserving of you.
I'm awaiting the moment when the spoiler warning is lifted and this can be talked about more directly.
I have to confess that I've been on the verge of dropping this book for months. I think the only reason I haven't is because I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop - something of some importance was surely going to happen, Lee had to show enough of her character that I'd finally feel some empathy, if not out-and-out sympathy, for her. I couldn't care less if the book was in the DCU or not, it just wasn't inspiring me. The characters all seemed to have potential to be interesting, but nothing was working for me.
I think that changed with this issue. In fact I think it changed with the first page of the issue - Bete Noir went from being just another sleazy, slightly enigmatic New Orleans knock-off, to some kind of analogy to Purgatory, or to the Outer Circle of Hell thatdidn't make it into Dante's Inferno. And that peaked my interest.
Then we get the stuff in Dolph's (and I just put the name of his bar and his name together - I confess I'm being a bit slow - so there's another thing going on there - just an in joke, or something more significant) with all the characters coming together, the revelation about Lee's powers (finally some foreshadowing I can eb concerned about) and the final revelation, which I didn't find shocking, just interesting...
The short of it is, I finally feel that my investment in the rest of the series might be worth it after all, and I'm certainly going to stick around for another half dozen issues at least.
"...and I'm certainly going to stick around for another half dozen issues at least."
Here's to fervent prayer that you have 6 more issues to stick around for.
Or that Peter continues Lee's tale somewhere (or some way) else.
Chip
Something related:
I had a look at Amazon UK and noticed that the Fallen Angel trade is now also available there. The problem is, if you type in Peter David and Fallen Angel, the search engine doesn`t find anything. But when typing in Fallen Angel, it finds the entry.
I could read that there was just one copy left and that they are waiting for a new shipment. It seems I was lucky :)
I sent a correction message to them. Not that I am optimistic it will do the trick, but at least I tried.
I can`t even blame Amazon this time. The hook at the end of Angel on the cover looks quite a lot like an "s".
I would have thought that sex with Juris would have been an easy indicator for others to see that Lee hates herself.
Sorry, what I meant to type was that Amazon UK lists Fallen Angels instead of Fallen Angel.
Typing with a curious nearly two year old on your lap is not so easy :)
Fallen Angel does seem to get better every issue. #14 was fantastic, Peter.
"I think that changed with this issue. In fact I think it changed with the first page of the issue - Bete Noir went from being just another sleazy, slightly enigmatic New Orleans knock-off, to some kind of analogy to Purgatory, or to the Outer Circle of Hell thatdidn't make it into Dante's Inferno. And that peaked my interest."
The true nature of Bete Noire--including the city's real name--will be revealed in issue #18. When Thomas observed that it seemed I was "ramping up the voltage," that's pretty much right. Issues 1 through 18 really form one big novel, and now we're driving toward the climax of it (which, if sales don't turn around, will never be collected, which is what tends to happen with all of my best work, so I'd get it now if I were you.) Back in issue 12, Doctor Juris makes mention of a Hierarchy that oversees Bete Noire, and we learn that he's effectively a prisoner there. Well, issue 15 sets up a major head-to-head between the Angel and the Hierarchy, and by the end of the arc, we learn why Juris is a prisoner, what Bete Noire is, and Lee's true role in it all.
PAD
Testing the non- typekey usage.
"The true nature of Bete Noire--including the city's real name--will be revealed in issue #18."
Why wait till then? The city's true name is Ottumwa, Iowa. Radar O'Reilly is the mastermind behind everything that's going on.
Rick
P.S. I liked the issue.
Welp, Cowboy Pete, I thought Bennie was going to rob/molest/do something bad to the kid but Holy Hell, I never saw that coming! It has to be one of the best comic shocks I have seen in a long time. Also, I am not going to give up and put this book at everyone even harder, read this great book damn you!!!
"The true nature of Bete Noire--including the city's real name--will be revealed in issue #18."
Peter,
Have you gotten any assurances FA will actually complete this first novel and print through #18?
Chip
Chip,
Fallen Angel #17 was in the November Solicits released by DC this Monday. It is scheduled to come out on November 3rd. The blurb for the story does NOT list it as "Final Issue" or anything like that, so I'd guess that it will goes at least as far as Issue #18 and that we'll find out what Peter is refering to. I'm not an authority, but solicit infomation will ususally explicitly state when an issue is the final one...which I hope won't be until about Issue #250ish or later...
Hm. I have to wonder if comic readers really do demand that character motivations have to be more explicit that what FALLEN ANGEL's.
Queen Anthai's remark is right on target, as PAD has said, and all the pieces and clues that allowed Queen to pull together this characterization have been lying around in plain sight for readership to put together on their own (though probably not as eloquently). This is, after all, just the result of the author SHOWING us the characterization, rather than TELLING us.
And though I was a step behind Queen's analysis, I rather like the way it was done (after all, I could have done the same thing and drawn the same conclusion if I wanted....)
"Hm. I have to wonder if comic readers really do demand that character motivations have to be more explicit that what FALLEN ANGEL's."
You know, I almost wonder--I can't be sure, mind you, but I almost wonder--if it's gender related.
I mean, fans knew nothing concrete about Wolverine's background, or Cable's for that matter, for years on end. The question of motivation was the mystery of the entire "Prisoner" TV series, it was never answered, and people have been cheerily debating it for years. We know Bruce Wayne's career as Batman was triggered by what he saw in the alley, but what really makes him tick? Is it vengeance? Is it altruism? It is a secret death wish, that he's really hoping to join his parents and this is the best way he can think of to do it without just committing suicide? Lots of ways to go, lots of possibilities. Lots of guys.
But introduce an enigmatic female character, and suddenly readers complain because I don't spell out everything about her by issue #2. I mean, Lee's breakdown in #9 and her talk with Dolf in #10 tells you everything you need to know to grasp her motivation, and guys are still left scratching their heads. But a FEMALE fan, she connected with no problem. Totally got it.
The simple fact is this: To most guys, women are a mystery. They don't know why women do what they do, and they get frustrated over it. So here's a heroine who acts like a real woman rather than a man with breasts, and maybe guys figure...I dunno...maybe they figure, "If I want to spend time with a female I don't understand, I'll talk to my girlfriend."
PAD
"If I want to spend time with a female I don't understand, I'll talk to my girlfriend."
BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!
That quote is priceless!!!
I think I found my latest signature.
Mr. D, your wisdom is unassailable. That's why I, and a great many other males, have simply given up on trying to deal with women. We're simply nice to them in the hopes that they'll let us get away from them without ruining us and making us feel miserable.
And no, it isn't only comic book readers or genre fans that feel that way (although a lot of us do). I'm convinced that many men become gay through the sheer impossibility of dealing with women. (Which means that prejudice against gays comes from men who stubbornly refuse to accept the fact that gays have developed a solution to the problem of women.)
One of the sharpest writers on this subject was Terry Southern, whose movie, "Lord Love a Duck," had a brilliant man destroyed because he refused to recognize that the woman he loved was essentially a destroyer. In the 1960's, it was assumed that there was no other choice but to be destroyed. Today, of course, we have an alternative; comic books.
"Hm. I have to wonder if comic readers really do demand that character motivations have to be more explicit that what FALLEN ANGEL's."
You know, I almost wonder--I can't be sure, mind you, but I almost wonder--if it's gender related.
But introduce an enigmatic female character, and suddenly readers complain because I don't spell out everything about her by issue #2. I mean, Lee's breakdown in #9 and her talk with Dolf in #10 tells you everything you need to know to grasp her motivation, and guys are still left scratching their heads. But a FEMALE fan, she connected with no problem. Totally got it.
There's something to this, I think. I enjoy the book immensely, as does my wife (and we both buy our own copies, both to support the book & to avoid arguments over who gets to read it first. *g*)
Both of us have pretty much come to the same conclusion about Lee that Queen Anthai does above (though Anthai writes it more eloquently than I could). Yet many guys I know seem to be rather puzzled by the character. I won't say most, 'cause it's about a 50-50 split. Certainly the salesguys at the store I buy it from don't get it.
On the other hand, all the women we know who have read it really like the character. A lot. It's an admittedly small sample, just some friends/coworkers we've encouraged to read it, but I'm thinking that the 25-35 female crowd would really enjoy the book.
Perhaps an interview in Cosmo, or boost by Oprah would help sales? Just dreaming, I know, but some way to reach that demographic might be good. There is the obstacle of "reading a funny book"; we got some interesting reactions when suggesting it as reading material. But once people tried it, they liked it, especially the female readers.
The simple fact is this: To most guys, women are a mystery. They don't know why women do what they do, and they get frustrated over it. So here's a heroine who acts like a real woman rather than a man with breasts...
That's one of the things I really like about PAD's heroines: they don't act like men with breasts, and he doesn't write the other extreme either, the heroine who solves everything by empathizing a lot but never has to actually make a tough call.
As an aside, my niece is now getting to read my copies of the PAD run on Supergirl, 'cause it's head and shoulders above 99% of the stories out there when it comes to good female characters. Still a little young to read FA though.
(hope this works, preview isn't working)
Peter:
Reading the comments above, made me think that instead of moving FA to Vertigo, perhaps FA should be moved to the new line of Manga comics? Why? It seems that manga trades are selling to teenage girls. Who knows, maybe this can be utilzed as a basis for saving FA.
Queen Anthai:All hail the queen !!!! That was an eloquent and beautifully expressed comment on Fallen Angel.
I had similar thoughts on Lee but some of your insights were deeper than mine.
" So here's a heroine who acts like a real woman rather than a man with breasts"
Yeah , you know thats why i like Lee ,she doesnt come off as Wolverine with a shot of estrogen.I actually like the Mystery and dont need the big reveal about her straight out the box.I have my own little story for her in my head and want to see if I am close.
BTW anybody besides me see the TNT film Purgatory??Basically it was town in the old West where people like doc Holliday and the like went when they died.There were specific rules to living there,and violation resulted in going to Hell.All the temptations were there ,you had to choose you own fate.Eric Roberts played a Thief who cam into town trying to take things over and ran into more than he could handle.The point is thats how I see Bete Noir.I think Lee is there in a redemption/what else do I have to do with my time scenario.There are definitely some unique elements in Bete Noir.
Back to women in fiction,i do find myself enjoying Birds Of Prey ,Fallen Angel and Batgirl.However i detest Claremont's version of female heroes.Maybe cause he sometimes in my opinion tries so hard he makes them overcompetent if there is such a thing.
Thomas :Comics are great but nothing beats a good woman ,brother.Yes they can be mysterious,complex, frustrating ,intimidating and sometimes utterly insane but if you can find something better let me know:)
I've wanted to mention this a few times before, but it always seems like it will shift the topic a bit so I've waited.
Mentioning that maybe readers seem to have less problem enjoying male characters with a mysterious/unrevealled background might be an unproven theory.
It seems like people forget that when Wolverine became an X-men, young/teenage fans didn't know that Marvel had no intention of revealing his origin. We bought X-men, and the Claremont/Millar mini because we thought/hoped each issue was going to be the one to finally tells everything we want to know about the character.
Now as adults, we get to look back and say "of course they were always going to keep Wolverine mysterious" but back then, we didn't know that. If around the time of Wolverine's induction to the X-men Marvel had announced "we won't be revealing most of his secrets for at least 20 years" how do you think that would have affected his growing popularity? It would be interesting to know.
I always hear people say that "everyone loves a mystery" and that the fun is in not knowing, but it seems that sales figures would disagree. Like when surveys show that most people report they listen to mainly classical music, but sales figures show that far and away it's really rock-n-roll most people buy/listen too.
Comics-wise, The Phantom Stranger is a mysterious male character with virtually nothing known about him and just how popular is he? How many monthly books has he starred in? Etc.
The part that made it initially hard for me to decide to stick with Fallen Angel was knowing right from the start that it is set-up with a mystery that will NEVER be resolved. How many people who tried the series and ultimately passed on or never tried it all it felt the same way?
I know the usual arguments against my line of thought and they usually point to some thing like the prisoner TV show, but that show was a cult hit was it not? Didn't the non-mysterious version of it -Secret Agent Man- have higher TV ratings?
Reading the comments above, made me think that instead of moving FA to Vertigo, perhaps FA should be moved to the new line of Manga comics?
Unfortunately, the CMX line is all translated Japanese series, and even if they were running American manga-style series FA would have to go through some major stylistic changes to fit. Marketing the book on the basis of having strong characters couldn't hurt, but that's a lot harder than, say, marketing on the basis of having a popular artist. (As John Byrne has said, people don't tend to look at a cover and say, "Hey, that book looks well written!" One can quibble over how far that's true, but there's certainly a nugget of fact there.)
Great issue. I thought it was hilarious and loved the Casablanca reference to further underscore the series premise. And just when we think we're getting just a nice little character piece with a break from the regular pacing...we get hit with the last two pages.
PAD -- All I have to say is thank you for writing this series.
Well, I think my point had to do more with that this character ISN'T a mystery.
For heaven's sakes, IT'S ALL RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF US. Like in real life. And we just have to be smart enough to put the pieces together.
Hm. Am I saying that the readership doesn't like to be considered smart enought to do that?
[Though there's another thing to consider. If Lee was a MALE character....would comic readers accept the book more?]
Peter David: Why do you think we shrinkwrapped the book?
Luigi Novi: Well, I figured the Sky Captain promotional material had something to do with it. :-)
(Btw, speaking of which if anyone wants to read my Spoiler-Free review of Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow (a movie whose teaser trailer left me skeptical, but which converted me after watching it), you can read it at http://64.33.77.146/discus/messages/8/24611.html?1093028179.)
Seriously, I’m not sure why spoilers are an issue, since this isn’t a pre-publication discussion, but one being carried on what I assume is after it hit the stands, and therefore, by people who’ve already read it. I mean, do many people read these boards who intend to buy it, but haven’t done so yet? Just curious.
As for the issue, I found it pretty interesting in that it could serve as a good jumping-on point for new readers. Elements from past issues were nicely alluded to in a way that provided exposition without the clichéd “Weisinger Effect.” The evolving relationship between Mariah and Lee was nice, as was Boxer’s experiment with Lee. The bombshell at the end was okay.
The art, however, continues to suffer from lack of consistency, in particular the line weight and the spotting of blacks, which is generally mediocre or worse, but in other spots quite good, particularly in this issue and the last. I don’t know if it’s the penciler or the inker, but really wish the book would get better art. I think I’d enjoy the story more, and sales might be better if it did.
Since I don’t post on the “Whatdja Think” boards frequently, I’d like to ask a couple of dumb questions: First, is Dolf really Hitler? Second, what is Lee’s exact connection to Supergirl? If Lee is Linda (which I’ve assumed up until now is not the case, since the book is supposedly creator-owned), then what happened between the end of the last Supergirl series and the beginning of this one?
Good issue, Peter. Bring on the next one. :-)
Peter David: The developments in issue #14 were foreshadowed in dialogue as early as issue #3 and were set into motion in the opening pages of issue #7 which, if you go back and re-read, you'll realize.
Luigi Novi: I reread them and don’t see it. Which dialogue in #3 is this? And by the opening pages of #7, you mean the first encounter with Mariah, or the sex scene with Juris?
Michael Rawdon: I've been reading Fallen Angel since the first issue came out, and unfortunately it has just never caught on for me. My best guess at this point is that it doesn't feel grounded, by which I mean I still feel - 14 issues in - like I lack a vast amount of context necessary to appreciate the story. All of the characters still feel like ciphers to me. Lee of course is the ultimate cipher, full of secrets such as where she came from, why she's in Bete Noire, why she does what she does, what her life is really like. While a few small facts have been tossed out here and there, she's not someone I understand or can relate to, and I haven't gotten the feeling like she's being either revealed or developed. As a result, it feels like Fallen Angel is a series without a protagonist: We can't see the world through Lee's eyes, because we can't get inside her head, and no one else is important enough to provide the series' point-of-view.
Luigi Novi: I thought I was the only one who felt that way. I agree that we need more context, and that I have trouble relating to the characters because, particularly Lee, because she seems to have no discernable sense of morality that helps me sympathize with her. She consorts with drug dealers, slave traders, etc. She isn’t really a hero, but then acts at times like she is one when she expresses anger towards murderers. Because of this, I don’t find her engaging as a character, and I have trouble remembering what happened in the previous issue when I pick up the new one. I’m reading it now mostly out of loyalty to Peter, and the hope that things will get clearer. Is it gender-related? I dunno. I’d like to think that I’m not sexist. I think my reactions to stories tend to stem from innate emotional considerations, so I hope I’m not.
I brought the week's haul home, handed the ones that my stepdaughter is following over, and she retreated to her room.
I knew exactly when she finished "Fallen Angel" -- a voice behind the door said (rather loudly) "Oh wow".
Any other week, just about, FA #14 would have been my choice for Top Comic That Mikey Buys.
But, ya know, it was the "Batman Adventures" story (which is, i understand, the last in that series, dammit) that takes that honour this week.
If you haven't read it, go get it -- even if you're a longtime Batman fan, and you think you've seen everything that can be done with Joe Chill... you haven't till you read this one.
"But a FEMALE fan, she connected with no problem. Totally got it." -Peter David
Yeah, and I'm wondering if that's not kinda sick that I'm relating to/empathizing with a dead-soul character. :)
Queen Anthai: "Yeah, and I'm wondering if that's not kinda sick that I'm relating to/empathizing with a dead-soul character. :)"
By no means is that sick that just means you fit in around here.:)
After all for years i understood Angelus and Spike on the buffy the vampire slayer more than some of the humans(except Giles).You're not sick
ya just got issues!!:)
While not as eloquent, I wrote this on the DC board months ago ... so some male readers do get it, PAD.
"The real story of Fallen Angel is trying to understand the convoluted and tragic figure of Lee. There is a great sadness in her that drives her to do what she is doing, some event that has only been hinted at in the title so far.
Her acts of justice seem to only ease her pain slightly. Whatever it is that pains her is deep. Her psychological defense to this pain seems to be two-fold. One, she lashes out at those who prey on others. Two, she doesn't think about what is hurting her and as a result she isn't dealing with it in any healthy way. She seems to be trying to bury her feelings, or ignore them, as if by steeling her soul she will be as invulnerable on the inside as she is on the outside.
This tough exterior ... this emotional indifference ... has led Lee to do some morally questionable acts. There is an 'ends justify the means' mentality in Lee, a code of justice that seems born from her past tragedy.
The last storyline shows and introspective Lee at her worst and then at her best as she tries to reconcile her place in her world."
Now, Peter, I hate to say this because Fallen Angel is bar none my favorite monthily read, but this week Fallen Angel only tied for my favorite book of the week. But on the bright side, you were up against Girl Genius.
Though there's another thing to consider. If Lee was a MALE character....would comic readers accept the book more?
No, because it would make this pregnancy storyline read like bad Smallville fanfic.
"One, she lashes out at those who prey on others."
And this is why #14 was a big disappointment which puts in question whether I'll continue with it.
OK, I can see she's not as pro-active as some other character - Spider-Man comes to mind - in that she's not out patrolling for purse snatchers and the like. Instead, she waits to be asked to help, by and large. Fair enough.
So? Please explain to me why the heck Benny is still alive, or at least walking around free? Now that we know his secret, and we know that Lee does, too, how can we possibly take her seriously if she allows him to go on doing it. And, no, beating up on him because he did it to one of her clients certainly doesn't count. We know she's aware he does this to other people but apparently hasn't stopped him once and for all. There's one heck of a difference between not being proactive and knowingly allowing something to go on doing that sort of thing.
"So? Please explain to me why the heck Benny is still alive, or at least walking around free?"
Why do YOU think?
PAD
Not meaning any sarcasm whatever, I don't have your amazing imagination and story construction skills [it's a compliment, honest!] and thus am at a loss to figure out why, other than the Hierarchy are somehow keeping him on the street and making sure nothing terminal happens to him such that he can keep on doing what he does.
What does he do? Issue #1 may be seen to suggest he does some policing for the powers-that-be. Unless he disposed of the individual who had been wearing the uniform to begin with. The latter option speaks for itself. The former then can be seen as his protecting the Hierarchy, rather than the citizenry. And, given the means he uses, this again suggests he should be taken out of circulation by anyone with a sense of right or wrong.
In which case, if I were in Lee's position, I'd probably say "screw it, this place is just too far gone, I'm outta here."
Having enjoyed your delightful plot twists and well-thought-out writings in FA and elsewhere, I know you have a subjectively valid (from Lee's point of view) reason why she hasn't done so. At this point I'm just not sure it will be enough to 'salvage' her for me after this.
See, you commented on how people don't seem to mind Wolverine's lack of a concrete past and so forth. I haven't read him in several years. But, for a long time, while I may not have liked him, I did respect the character.
Why? Because, not unlike your character of Stone, he wouldn't hesitate to risk his life (OK, given how tough he was this wasn't always much of a risk, but never mind) to come to the aid of even total strangers. One gets the impression in #14 that Lee is very selective in who she can be bothered to help. I have a hard time respecting someone like that.
Yes, I know, she can't help EVERYBODY. There will always be some form of 'selection', even if only by circumstances. But one would think that, if she saw someone who is clearly a threat to the well-being of apparent innocents, she would not sit idly by and ignore it. There IS a difference between people who choose to have harm done them (drug addicts) and someone who has it done to them (Benny's victims?). That a large part of the book may be involved in finding out why this is so doesn't make her any more likeable or, for the moment, worthy of respect. Later? I can't say. Right now I'm just not sure I'll be sticking around that long.
"So? Please explain to me why the heck Benny is still alive, or at least walking around free?"
Why do YOU think?
PAD
For my money ,I think Benny is still alive for the same reason Spiders,Snakes,Sharks and other predators exist.They are doing what is in their nature.Lee took offense in that this was a specific client of hers.Maybe she has a understanding or deal with him as far as his feeding habits and this was a violation.Other than that he was just doing what comes natural to him.
You could just as much question why Mariah,or Asia is still around.I need to go check but we havent scene Lee really kill anyone have we?Im sure i will be corrected if she has but the only she killed was a Demon and the Hellhound.
You could just as much question why Mariah,or Asia is still around.I need to go check but we havent scene Lee really kill anyone have we?Im sure i will be corrected if she has but the only she killed was a Demon and the Hellhound.
I always figured that she didn't kill Asia for the same reason that Agent K never completely atomized Jack Jeebs. He is scum... but he is low level yet well connected scum. As we saw when she was fighting the demon, spook Asia enough and he will help her. Plus, Lee can use him to catch baddies who are a little higher up the totem poll.
"For my money ,I think Benny is still alive for the same reason Spiders,Snakes,Sharks and other predators exist.They are doing what is in their nature.Lee took offense in that this was a specific client of hers.Maybe she has a understanding or deal with him as far as his feeding habits and this was a violation.Other than that he was just doing what comes natural to him."
That's on the right track.
See, here's the truth of it: Everything and everyone in Bete Noire serves a specific function. They have something they're there to do. And the longer you're there, the more the city gets into you, and you into it. The more it protects you. The more it preserves you.
And Benny's been there a long time. A real. Long. Time. Longer than Dolf. Longer than Juris. Longer than just about anybody (which is my way of saying that, no, those people who thought he was actually Benito Mussolini were wrong.) He's one of the first citizens and, as such, has very special status.
The Fallen Angel doesn't kill him for two reasons: 1) She understands that he serves a function, and 2) She couldn't kill him if she tried. She knows this because she did try once...in a story that, who knows, maybe I'll get to tell.
Is the city capable of such dark doings? Next issue, we're going to see our first aerial view of Bete Noire...and its layout should make you understand some stuff.
PAD
"And Benny's been there a long time. A real. Long. Time. Longer than Dolf. Longer than Juris. Longer than just about anybody (which is my way of saying that, no, those people who thought he was actually Benito Mussolini were wrong.) He's one of the first citizens and, as such, has very special status.
The Fallen Angel doesn't kill him for two reasons: 1) She understands that he serves a function, and 2) She couldn't kill him if she tried. She knows this because she did try once...in a story that, who knows, maybe I'll get to tell."
Hmm, I can think of one guy who's been around a very long time who wasn't allowed to be killed by divine fiat. Although he wasn't exactly known for swallowing people whole.
"Hmm, I can think of one guy who's been around a very long time who wasn't allowed to be killed by divine fiat. Although he wasn't exactly known for swallowing people whole."
Yeah, and as I remember it, he was a vegetarian to boot.
Might be going Adkins.
Predators do serve a purpose. Yes.
We still don't allow lions and polar bears free reign of the cities to nibble on the citizenry. We either shoot them or put them in cages. And do the same to human predators.
Maybe Lee can't kill Benny, but it's obvious she can make life unpleasant for him. And I'm betting she can probably come up with a way to jail him (in spite of his clearly elastic body) such that the populace is not endangered by his revolting habit.
I've read several posts here from people who are on the verge of dropping this book. It may be a case of Too Little Too blah blah, but I'm on the verge of picking it up. Been following the threads here on PADs site, checked out some reviews over at Newsarama, bought the trade and #14, and I think I'm gonna make an effort to get the back issues.
I haven't collected a comic in over 4 years. Nothing I've seen till now has made me want to ad to my already overflowing collection from 10+ years of reading comics. Until now. The story PAD is weaving here is (no real surprise here) on a par with some of the better novels/epics available (insert any number of titles/authors OTHER than Robert Jordan here).
So, PAD, if you buy into the "if I can just reach ONE person," then count your effort to increase sales as successful. You got me.
this book is AWESOME. seriously. i'm not talking about this issue alone, but the series as a whole. i almost skipped it when it was first released, but noted Peter David's name and i HAD to get it. no regrets since. I really hope this book will NEVER get cancelled!
Well, I just bought #14 and all the back issues I was able to get my hands on (everything except #1, 3, 5, and 9; looks I'll be needing the trades too).
Verdict: I regret not being on board from the beginning. I'd collected your entire HULK run and the second half of your CAPTAIN MARVEL series; I feel that what you're doing here seems to be the natural progression from those excellent stories. The characters are more ambiguous, the humour is blacker, the themes are darker, mystery abounds, and, as #14 demonstrates, surprises are in store.
Why didn't I buy it in the first place? Well, I admit that I don't buy everything that you write. Sometimes it takes me awhile to come on board. Mind you, somehow FA#1 just never got noticed by me. I don't remember seeing much promotion for this book over the past year. If this was VERTIGO I probably would have tried it before this (I bought SEAGUY: deliciously surreal). Recently I started haunting the message boards and saw somebody recommending FA on his/her tagline. I also noticed you mentioning FA during pieces about your new HULK series. Based on my past experience with your writing I decided to jump in and I'm glad I did.
I hope FA isn't cancelled, but given its placement on the TOP 300... it looks grim. What kind of improvement would be necessary to carry on past #18? If it cracked the TOP 100 would DC give it the green light?
Thought: if DC lets FA go, and the new HULk series sells well, Marvel does have its new ICON line of creator owned pet projects.
Good luck,
JDP
Anyone think that maybe The Shard is the reason Lee's expecting?
posted by marc: "Anyone think that maybe The Shard is the reason Lee's expecting?"
Nah, I'm pretty sure she did it the old-fashioned way. The alternative would, of course, lead to splinters. :)
Oh, and by the way, THANKS FOR THE SPOILER WARNING, SIR!
*end sarcasm*
Spoiler:
The shard granting Lee exactly what she needs could lead into a "divine birth" and all sorts of interesting possibilites for a "fallen Angel"
Knowing what we now know about Benny does explain his many different hats he has been shown to wear.
Nice to know i was on the right track about why Lee didnt smoke Benny and does explain my question about Mariah (who i like )and Asia(soso)
If everything in Bete Noir has a function or purpose then Lee would essentially break up the natural order of things by killing some of these people.What long term effects would result?Hmmm?
Star Wolf :While Benny's eating habits may be a
bit unsavory ,consider this.He did not break into
a house and have a nice feast of young virgins.He preyed on someone in Bete Noir who was basically waving a sign saying n"i dont belong ,im a tourist come get me!" While not saying his behavior was right ,i stand by the natural predator similarity.
If you go in the ocean ,in a wet suit ,in the early morning ,near an area where you often see Seals ,turtles,and the like to take a swim,you may get mistaken for Mr Sharky's dinner.If you go into Bete Noire,looking lost you may get eaten by Benny.
As far as Lee making his life unpleasant,or jailing him...maybe she cant,or for her own reasons wont do so.Plus if as Peter states everything has a purpose again to use the
Discovery channel,Predators usually only clash out of self defense,defending territory or over common prey,Maybe there have been few instances of Benny and Lee crossing paths in a negative way.
Nice interview PAD did w/ Rich Johnston.
http://dynamicforces.com/htmlfiles/tommy85.html
Joe V.
I enjoyed the issue a lot. I bought two comics today, she-hulk and fallen angel and loved them both.
I live in switzerland (although am english) and unfortunately fallen angel was not sold at the one comic shop in zurich. I have beena fan of PADs work for a long time - Hulk, Supergirl etc. and was very interested in the title as soon as it was being promoted on this website - if it hadn't been for this site I wouldn't have known about it. Anyway despite my interest the comic shop in zürich didn't seem to be getting any copies of Fallen Angel. I must admit, I have always taken a rather casual stance with comics, whatever is in the store that takes my interest i tend to buy, and that's it. So I was considering buying the fallen angel trade on e-bay, when low and behold I find three copries of the trade at my comic shop. I bought it immediately, and enjoyed the stories alot.
I visited England the other week, And was lucky to find back issues for almost all of the comics i didn't have in the FA series - i wa soverjoyed. So when I came back to Switzerland, i decided to go pro-active - the comic shop now reserves me a copy each month of FA - I know it doesn't make a big difference - but hey. you have one extra regular reader ;)
as for this issue (excuse my ramblings) liked it alot ... didn't expect Benny to be doing what he does. was surprised an^d happy to learn that FAs powers have a nice twist to them (much more interesting than flat out invulnerability - we have an achilles heel), and the pregnancy thing - hmm also very intersting.
Where is Bete Noire (i.e. what is the real name of the city)? Well, if we look at the evidence, there’s only one possible answer.
1) We have a snake.
2) We have a "fallen angel."
3) We have Dolf, the bartender (and owner?) at Furors; and many people think that’s a reference to a certain chancellor, though to me it could just be a red herring. I mean, it’s a little _too_ obvious with his name and that of the bar. But if Dolf is who some think he is, then we know where he would and should be.
Add these together, and it becomes obvious that Bete Noire can only be......
Hell, Michigan.
(Yes, that's a real place)
Thank you, and good night.
Rick
Considering the nature of Bete Noire, it might be kinder to get eaten by Benny than to wait around for one of the other fates that the city has in mind for tourists.