PeterDavid.net

Another good one is John Nash's acceptance speech of 1/3 of the Nobel Prize, where at one point he said something along the lines of, I just wish that the grant was for more because I could really use the extra money.

I've wondered, since the original Supergirl died way back in 1985's Crisis, how many pseudo-Supergirls and Supergirl revamps we've had since then.

Don't know if I can remember all of them, but here's my version of the list:

1) Power Girl
2) Laurel Gand (Kara's replacement in Legion of SH)
3) The Lana-Proto-Angel-Supergirl of PAD's series
4) Kara of "Happy Returns"
5) Kara of the Superman/Alien mini-series
6) Kara, the girl who met Deadman in Mark Waid's great Christmas story
7) Supergirl (Clark and Lois' "daughter" recently in Superman)
8) Kara in SUPERMAN-BATMAN currently out.

The girl is like Hydra, for cripes' sake! Kill one and 8 more take her place!

David

My take on it; Mr. D did a great job in trying to rescue a character that was not selling well. His chosen method was to make good for the injustice of killing off the original Supergirl in the first place. (Something that Gerard Jones complained about in his book; by killing off Supergirl DC assured there would be no super-comics girls would want to read, turning comic books into a He-Man Women Hater's Club.)

Although I'm only a very minor light in writing, I know one truth of the profession; writing is like spaghetti. You throw it against the refrigerator door and see if it sticks. You accept the momentary regret if it doesn't, then go back to cooking. The Kara revival didn't stick. So you keep cooking.

"The Kara revival didn't stick. So you keep cooking."

Except it did stick. Sales climbed exponentially even though DC didn't put a scintilla of promotion into it. They then canceled it, took the same concept, did it in Superman/Batman with the full weight of the PR department behind it, and boom, the number one book.

PAD

I just wish we're going to see Linda again.

DC should reintroduce her as Superwoman.

Halfway through my statistics class I realized that my last statement was just plain wrong for two reasons, the first being that they don't give acceptance speeches at the Nobel Prize ceremonies, and two because he didn't get any cash and in fact said, "Money would be nicer".

My bad

Gotta admit I bought the trade about 3 weeks ago... Could NOT put it down until I was completely finished.

I thought every single thing about the whole storyline ROCKED!

Um, Nobel Prize winners do get a fair chunk of change. I'm sure the amount per Prize (split if multiple winners for a single one) is over a million dollars at this point. And several decades ago, Richard Feynman considered one of the best thing about winning the Prize being able to use the money to buy a SoCal beach house.

Actually, I'm one of the few who thought Supergirl ended so wonderfull, we should never see Linda Danvers again. We should just assume that she became terminally. Having what she had the best man in the world and then loosing him, she eventually just gave up and went back to shacking up with Buzz, or Comet. Or both.

Or maybe, just maybe, PAD could take over one of the Superbooks next year and bring her back in a story where Lois wants to have kids, finds out she has only 1 in 4 billion chance of carrying one of Clark's kids. Since Linda has already done it once, there is little reason she couldn't again... so Lois and Jimmy try to track her down to serve as a surrogate.

Well, since no one else has said it yet...

Congratulations on the Squiddy win! Sure, it's something of a bittersweet prize, but it's recognition nonetheless.

TWL

Just to add that the Squiddy was well deserved. And that I prefer PAD's Supergirl over the incarnations that followed her. And that I want to see Linda again.

Tom,

Yeah, you're right about that. They do get money get a chunk of change that's intended to be used for further research, so I'm having internal conflict on exactly what the reason was for Nash's not getting any. I don't have the book on hand so I'm a bit stuck, but I am sure that Nash said it in that context.

PAD, mad congradulations on the Squiddie. Sorry for using so much space on this thread for something that's completely irrelevant.

At a Princeton University FAQ page, the following is said:

At the Nobel Prize Award Ceremony, His Majesty the King of Sweden hands each Laureate a diploma, a medal, and a document confirming the Prize amount. The Laureates do not give acceptance speeches. The scene in the movie A Beautiful Mind in which Nash thanks his wife Alicia for her continued support during his illness is fictional.

Laureates are each invited to give an hour-long lecture; however, the Nobel committee did not ask John Nash to do so, due to concerns over his mental health.

Let's say
1) The Nobel Prize is 1 million dollars
2) You know you have been nominated with 2 other individuals.
3) There's a 50% chance of your getting caught
4) There's a 60% chance of an "insanity plea" being successful
5) There's a 70% chance of your work being awarded
6) There's an 80% chance your two colleagues are having the same thoughts

Would it be worth it to eliminate your 2 colleagues prior to the committee's decision, and prior to them eliminating you first?

(I know I could have come up with something more creative given more time.)

(Note: Nash won the prize for his work on Game Theory)

my God, Peter, you are such a whiney baby. Give it a rest already.

You're right, John, and you just jumpstarted my memory a bit. He said the "money would be nicer" part in his interview to the King himself when they were talking about something off the wall. Since I'm obviously content with blindly fumbling around this subject(rather too lazy to get the book back from my friend) I'm going to have to go on not knowing why it was that he would say something like that if he were bound to get at least some money.

The movie was completely wrong about a whole lot of things, that speech at the end being one of them. John Nash was, and is, hardly the man that they made him out to be despite his inhuman mathematical intelligence.

I'll say this much: Between the cancellation of SG at #80, and Catwoman at #96, one can't help but wonder if there's some sort of glass ceiling that keeps solo super-heroines from reaching the 100-issue mark. With the exception of Wonder Woman, of course.

Anyway, congrats on the sqiddies win. It was indeed one hell of a storyline.

Posted by Thomas E. Reed: (Something that Gerard Jones complained about in his book; by killing off Supergirl DC assured there would be no super-comics girls would want to read, turning comic books into a He-Man Women Hater's Club.)

I have to take exception with this comment in your otherwise eloquent post, Thomas (and by extension, Gerald Jones as well). I think it's dangerous to make the assumption that 'girls' only want to read super-comics featuring female protagonists. (Or, to put it conversely, that only girls would want to read them).

Congratulations, Mr. David. The news is somewhat bittersweet for me, as your Supergirl was my favorite comic for a large portion of its run. I can only imagine how you, yourself, must feel.

David wrote:

I've wondered, since the original Supergirl died way back in 1985's Crisis, how many pseudo-Supergirls and Supergirl revamps we've had since then.

1) Power Girl
---

For what it's worth, Power Girl existed long before Crisis as a member of the JSA on Earth-2. Although she was basically Earth-2's version of Supergirl, she wasn't created in reaction to Supergirl's death.

::slinks back to lurk in the shadows::

I couldn't honestly be more pleased to hear that PAD's Supergirl is getting a little bit of post-mortem recognition.

I just got a package today that contains all the issues I needed to fill the "holes" in my PAD-penned Supergirl collection (as well as the entirety of PAD-penned X-Factor). Well, technically, I still need the first nine issues for completeness sake, but in terms of content, I've had the first Supergirl trade for a few years now.

I can't wait to dig in and reread the whole shebang from start to finish. When this series was coming out, it was honestly my favorite book. (If anyone is curious, just check out the letters page in issue 41 or 42, I believe...I had a letter printed containing my praise for the book.)

I especially loved the wonderful period between approximately issue 14 and issue 50. Fantastic stuff. To this day, I think Leonard Kirk and Robin Riggs were two of the very best artists with whom Peter's ever collaborated.

I loved them all, but that whole era of the Earthborn angels, Andy/Comet, Dick Malverne, Atlas Corp., it was all phenomenal. Now that I've got all the issues, I'm going to dive right in tonight.

:-)

Fanboy mode OFF. ;-)

"my God, Peter, you are such a whiney baby. Give it a rest already."

Okay, since you appeared out of nowhere and all you've done in your posts is bitch at me, I will go on the assumption that you're the same jackass as has appeared elsewhere.

Shrouded.

PAD

Maybe I'm not understanding the idea of shrouding, Peter, but wouldn't it mean that the post you quote immediatey above should be simply ignored without acknowledgement in the least?

"I'm pleased I won. Now I just wish I had a job." (Do I put double quotes around that, being a quote of a quote?)

Maybe not a job, but not useless either.

I had a chance encounter with a friend's copy of Many Happy Returns last November -- hadn't read comics in well over 20 years. I was impressed enough that I've tracked down all the back issues of Supergirl to #1. Excellent writing.

While that may not help you as such, it did get me reading Fallen Angel (which is splendid). Tracked down all of those as well (new, not used). My wife and brother-in-law -- neither of whom have ever read comics in their life -- had the same positive reaction as me, and are now getting FA as well. The FA TPB will also make a nice birthday gift for several people come this July/August.

And I got my own copy of Many Happy Returns for Christmas. :)

How wonderful that MHR gets recognized.
I loved the Supergirl series and thought it was the most innovative and interesting comic out at the time. I, like a prior poster, especially loved the issues through #50.
Thanks again for the series PAD!

Huh, I guess what has been said about comics is true. "Waiting for the trade paperback" seems to be where comics are going. I'd like to run a mini-poll if I can.
How many people here read the Many happy returns "first-run" (like me)?
How many have read either the trade or got back issues?

P.S. I only pick up the book because I heard Ed Benes was going to pencil it (I really didn't like the art before hand (except for Gary Frank's stuff, which is the only other Supergirl issues of Peter's run which is availible in trade form(got the "first-run too!)))

Vote Quimby!

ugh...Picked up.

I read SG first run. I like trade paperbacks and buy them when something interests me that I may have missed when it came out monthly, or my tastes have changed and am now more interested than I was then. But there's nothing like a monthly. I love the fact that every month I get to catch up a little with the characters in the titles I currently buy. If I buy the monthly, I don't get the TPB. Now, I have dropped titles recently due to finances, so I may pick up a TPB on one of them eventually. But they were titles that were easily dropped since the quality wasn't as high as in the past. I buy almost everything of PAD's. (Tried Spyboy but it wasn't my cup aof tea.) JMS and Joss Whedon are must buys also. I tend to follow writers rather than artists. As long as they keep selling them monthly, I'll keep buying them.

Um, one final thing on the Nobel money. It's not "intended to be used to further the research". In many cases, the work that got the Nobel was done several decades before and the field and research have moved on considerably. Also, for the Literature prize, well, I can't think of a single winner who used the money to finance their lifestyle while they wrote a sequel. :-) Like the MacArthur grants, a Nobel Prize winner can do whatever they feel like with the monetary part of the prize.

Side odd factoids: I met three sons of Nobel Prize winners before ever meeting a winner. I was also used as a practice dummy to show several Laurates how to dance the Macarena.

Um, can I ask a question?

I've been meaning to ask this, and since this board now provides the perfect opportunity, I have to ask:

First, what happened to Linda, and who was this new Supergirl in Superman/Batman #5?

Second, if this new character in Superman/Batman #5 was the new Supergirl, what happened her to make space for the new Supergirl that later appeared in #8?

Lastly, how can that Supergirl in #8 come back if she died in Crisis? Superman matter-of-factly tells Batman at the end of #8 that she's his cousin, but no one seems to recognize her as the character that died in Crisis.

Can someone fill me in? I was a Marvelite, and aren't as well-read with DCU history.

Thanks.

Peter:
Congratulations on the Squidie.
I grew up (so to speak) with the original Kara Zor-El, and actually got mad at DC for Crisis on Infinite Earths #7.
While not perfect (ie: being the original) your Supergirl was a pretty good substitute.
Thanks for the series.

Congratulations. I do not consider accepting with a witticism to be "whiny baby" behavior.

Could this award possibly affect the fate of Fallen Angel? I really would like you to get around to that girl's story. (not rushing, just hoping she lives long enough)

Pete

Do you know what I wanna read? The Adventures of Rick Jones! Do you know who I want to write it? Peter David! Do you know when I will win the lottery and buy Marvel comics, so that I can make this happen? OY! what was that all about?

I read SG first run, and have all the issues except one: one of the Young Justice crossover issues. I'm still looking, however (for that and for the two YJ issues that complete the crossover.)

I'm always worried about the "waiting for the trade" mentality. If that applied to TV series, too, and people decided to "wait for the DVD collection" rather than watch the show when it first aired, wouldn't it go off the air, and the likelihood of a DVD all that smaller?

Actually Supergirl was a good chick magnet for me back when i was ...younger...many a fine young lady would ask what i was reading and when they saw it was Supergirl, well....
And I swear after every girl read the current issue I was on, they would ask the same question..."Are these books always this good?" and I'd reply "ya baby, ya"

What an interesting idea. Seems like it might have kind of a Buckaroo Banzai feel to it; make the first arc or three about the adventures of Rick's traveling band. His bandmates could be the initial supporting cast, and each new town has some neat story, alternating between genre-oriented stories about aliens or vampires and less fantastic but cool stories like when Rick was locked up by his crazy "mother".

Pete

Luigi:

>First, what happened to Linda,

In Supergirl #80, due to her trauma at losing her child in the parallel universe where she'd spent several years (her time), Linda basically walked off into the sunset, leaving a note explaining her reasons for leaving everyone she knew and giving up the Supergirl role.

>and who was this new Supergirl in
>Superman/Batman #5?

Supposedly Cir-El, Superman's daughter from the future. Frankly, I never heard of any of the readers really liking the character. In Superman #200, it was revealed that minions of Brainiac in the future had merged Superman's DNA from a strand of hair with a Terran homeless girl to create her. In a convoluted story, she wiped herself out in a sacrifice to save Superman, with it being unclear if the wiping out was done in such a way that anyone remembers her or not. Since all of the writers on the Super-books have changed, and #200 wrapped up that writer's storylines, I suspect she'll never be refered to again.

>Lastly, how can that Supergirl in #8 come back
>if she died in Crisis? Superman matter-of-factly
>tells Batman at the end of #8 that she's his
>cousin, but no one seems to recognize her as the
>character that died in Crisis.

The pre-Crisis Supergirl never existed in the current DCU (modulo that the other Supergirl in the Many Happy Returns story in Supergirl 76-80 was supposed to be her, and that "Kara" in an excellent one-shot by Alan Brennert back around 1989 was clearly here [there, it was a plot element that no one could see her except Deadman and he didn't remember her]). So, when the Supergirl Mark VIII or so landed on Earth, it was from her Kryptonese dialogue saying her father was Zor-El and why, yes, he did have a brother Jor-El that Superman deduced that she's his cousin.

This isn't the first time DC has made an absolutely boneheaded decision.

Remember when they decided to cancel Young Justice by mooshing it together with Titans in the worst-written miniseries since Secret Wars II? And how right afterwards WBA released a Teen Titans cartoon that was tonally the same as Young Justice?

Oh wait, of course you do.

It's not a glass ceiling for female characters so much as that all sidekicks and "B-list" heroes get short shrift by DC. For a long time most comics critics considered Flash, and Starman DC's best comics, and yet DC only ever gave PR to Batman and Superman.

I was first run. It'd be great to find out what happened to Linda someday.

Congratulations on the Squiddie, PAD.

Also chiming in with congratulations of the Squiddy win, PAD. It's wonderfully reassuring, in light of the publisher's more recent 'sweeping it under the rug' continuity blunders.

KET

PAD:

Only now noticed that the title of the story arc was also that of a "Prisoner" episode. Safe to say that this is a sly reference?

George Guay

Peter, I'm also glad you won the award. And I also wish I had a job.

I got most of "Supergirl", all first-run, and i loooooved the "Return of Kara" storyline.
Congratulations on your award PAD.
That's all i have to say right now.

You know, it only just occurred to me reading this, but has anyone mentioned the flipside of your Fallen-Angel-is-it-or-isn't-it-Linda semi-marketing ploy (and before you worry... I'm not dissing the plan, I actually like the idea; you yourself said that it was part of your plan to draw in readers)?

Namely, now we don't get to see Linda. If Lee is Linda, that's understandable, but if she isn't... or if we as readers choose to think she's not, we're left missing this character we've come to care about. If someone else wanted to use Linda in a story, could they? Or is she comic-book-limboed for the next ten years while FA runs?

Douglas Barre:
"If someone else wanted to use Linda in a story, could they? Or is she comic-book-limboed for the next ten years while FA runs?"

Douglas, that's an interesting point, but I don't think it's a bad thing and also don't think that it's likely to be an issue.

I don't think it's a bad thing because I'm not really eager to see what another author would do with Linda. She was such a living, breathing person under Peter's pen. I remember when Dan Jurgen's Titans were conducting a poll of characters that readers wanted to join, I was worried that Supergirl was on the list. It was my opinion that if the writing of Supergirl in Titans did Linda any justice, she'd have totally overshadowed the rest of them.

I don't think that it's an issue, because DC has shown that it's been perfectly willing to create hoards of new Supergirls since the moment Peter's series was torpedoed. Well, not "hoards" just yet, but two in about a year's time. And who knows what's going on with Power Girl in JSA right now. Pretty soon, they'll be darkening the sky when they fly overhead. DC seems perfectly content to let Linda sit in Limbo while they try to figure out how to have a "not-quite Kryptonian" Supergirl that reminds us of the one from before the Crisis, but still let's Superman be the Last Son of Krypton...except for a dog.

And I wonder if any of these "Almosts" will still be around after seven years (the approximate amount of time Linda sustained her own book).

As to the Fallen Angel, I find her rather interesting. She reminds me of Linda in that Linda herself was quite a mystery through the first year of her run. I look forward to finding out more about both her past and how it will shape her future.

"Pretty soon, they'll be darkening the sky when they fly overhead."

And then we'll have to blow up the planet to end a war, and feel guilty about killing off all the Avi- I mean, Supergirls, and then start slavishly following the advice of transdimensional aliens... :)

(Sorry - guess I heard one too many "darkening the skies" lines from the Xindi...)

>Posted by Peter David at June 9, 2004 02:16 PM
>
>They then canceled it, took the same concept, did >it in Superman/Batman with the full weight of the >PR department behind it, and boom, the number one >book.

*nod* I'm gonna hold that against DC for a LONG time. 'Cause, you know, the current Supergirl storyline? Doesn't even come CLOSE to "Many Happy Returns" in terms of quality. With all due respect to Jeph Loeb, PAD's Supergirl has always been and will always be the definitive Supergirl to me; and sometimes I just wonder if the Big Two actually recognize talent when it's staring them in the face... :(

Re :Diana "i just wonder if the big two actually recognize talent when its staring them in the face"Umm ,i would have to say no for the most part.I base this on the fact up until recently when for various reasons i stopped going to the comics store i found myself searching more and more for quality comics from the big two.Either the story was good /artwork bad or vice versa.The comics i read and enjoyed seemed to be less hyped and as a result left by the wayside by fans and in some cases the retailers.Love The Savage Dragon but my local store stopped carrying it,(not selling enough)Black Panther(cancelled),Birds of Prey(no hype),Batgirl(went to crap).
Its pretty much why i dont watch a lot of network TV,little creativity or originality and please dont make someone think.
I may be in the minority but im underwhelmed by the return of Claremont to the XMEN.I felt he pretty much shot his load with the characters a long time ago.But Marvel will due it to hype a comic that needs no more hyping and make money.
Understand its a business ,but doesnt telling good stories count??
Sorry to rant and ramble but again remember just my opinions .....I could be wrong:)

I just read the NEWSARAMA interview,with PAD and a couple of rants by Micah Wright.Funny they both have some of the same view points on the marketplace.Specifically how the retailers and companies would rather hype the same old,same old
or the "surefire" product rather than hype a new project that may attract new readers or god forbid be unique in the market.
NEW ULTIMATE DAREDEVIL,XMEN,XFACTOR,XFORCE,XCALIBUR,and oh by the way check out captain marvel if you have any money leftover.
Christopher Priest speaks about his horror story with the books XERO and STEEL( poorly advertised,non commercial,and oh by the way they feature black main characters so who no one will read them anyway)on his website.
Its a shame good stories suffer and die cause they are noy considered "hot" by the powers that be.

Deano,
I think you are a cool person, but I really have to take issue with your comments. If you read them, please respond. I would appreciate feedback!

1.)First, how can you take ANYTHING Micah Wright says seriously? He is a fu--ing liar, who lied about being in the military to give himself and his stories more credibility. This person (I won't call him a man) does not have 1/10th the crdibility PAD has.

2.) You are buying into the crap that there "are TOO MANY X BOOKS ON THE MARKET", which has been the constant whine of other books that cannot find a readership. Bull. I like "Emma Frost" and "Mystique". If they get cancelled, that doesn't mean I'm going to have more money (since obviously all comic readers and retailers are poor AND sheep and ignore good and potentially money-making comics for bad, money-losing ones that begin with X!
And X-Factor ended years ago, dude. Since that time, "Gambit", a series with Bishop and other mutant books have bitten the bullet.
In fact, if an X-book drops below the "Top 50" mark, it is more than likely to be cancelled, since the expectations are higher. So any book that survives, deserves it.
Look at "X-Statix". Critically acclaimed by everyone from "Wizard" to "The New York Times Book Review"! And it was one of Axel Alonso's favorites to boot!
But being #81 in February and #95 in March just doesn't cut it for ANY book, let alone an X-book, so it's gone!
Thank goodness, since i found the stories silly and the characters COMPLETELY unlikable!

3.) I think Christopher Priest is talented. I LOVED his "Power Man/ Iron Fist" stories. I have interviewed him.
But "STEEL"?
Please!
Two of my best contcts are the co-owners of the largest, most succesful store in the country run by African-Americans.
And they BOTH HATE Christopher Priest's writing lately.
Steel? Here are their exact words:
"Here you had this little Jewish woman who wrote him interestingly, who made him heroic, who made him basically a Black Superman."
"Then Christopher Priest comes along and sudenly he's afraid of the water?"
They also hated "Icon" and found it offensive for reasons I won't go into.
Finally, "Black Panther" was so vague and "deconstructed". They wanted the regal ruler!
And me, personally, I have always LOVED The Black Panther, but I pickes up an issue now and then, and had no idea what the hell was going on.
So, Deano, sometimes "The Powers That Be" simply cancel series with "potential" because readers have dropped them.
And there's usually areason for that.

Oversaturation is kind of a double-edged sword IMO. On the one hand, variety allows for multiple interpretations; if you don't like what one writer is doing, you have alternatives. It's not like in the 1970s when, as far as the X-Men were concerned, Chris Claremont's word was law. It also allows the characters to branch out into multiple genres, ie: spy thrillers with "Mystique", drama (some might say melodrama) with "Emma Frost", etc.

On the other hand, Marvel spends so much money pushing more and more X-books regardless of their quality, and as a result they constantly kvetch about being unable to support titles that aren't quite as successful (ie: Runaways, Sentinel, Spider-Girl, X-Statix).

Hey Jerome read the comments so I will respond.
1. Sorry ,i had no idea Micah wright was a liar,
and in particular if he lied about military service the man is scum and all his opinions just got flushed .My Dad retired from the Army after about 20 years when i was born,i have a brother who was a marine,and i have about 13 years of service from active duty and reserve time combined in the reserves so lying about that is most uncool.
2.The "too many X books" i was using them as an example of how some books are more hyped as opposed to others.Kinda like how Fox would bury Bernie Mac and Arrested Development but hype American idol til the end of time.
3.As far as Christopher Priest,I loved Powerman/Iron Fist,Quantum and Woody ,and Xero.I admit the early Steel issues were a lot better than his run.Towards the end of the Panther run it did become a bit all over the place for me .Panther was one of favorites and i enjoyed the early issues by Priest.The quality of his worked has declined as his recent Captain America /Falcon series was unreadable.Did he do Icon ??I thought that was someone else.
Back to the point ,whether by design of the writers or editors,Xero and Steel seemed to live almost totally apart from the DCU.At the time i felt Priest was on top of his game and didnt understand why more effort was not made to push the titles.Of course I only know Priest's side of the story.By the way the Comic shop owners you mentioned , In think i may have known one of their Fathers ....small world huh?I live in Media know but grew up in southwest Philly so anything is possible.
Titles getting Axed I understand sometimes they just stink and certain expectations come with certain titles and it is reasonable to want certain revenue from a well marketed book.Its just in a perfect world the better quality book
would sell as opposed to the most popular.I guess that is thinking from the fan side and not the business side.
Again just my opinions ....i could be wrong,unlike Bladestar and a few others i admit i dont know everything and sometimes get short sighted in my beliefs and thoughts.
I would like to discuss why Icon was a "hated" title if you get time ,Was it stereotypes ,lack of originality???
Hope i answered the questions ,sometimes i ramble.By the way out of curiousity am the only person who is bored by chris claremont or am i just spoiled from Grant Morrison and his run on Xmen??

Regarding Chris Claremont's return with Alan Davis to Uncanny X-Men, I actually very much enjoyed their first issue.

I thought Grant Morrison was a master at taking great ideas and executing them, but honestly, Morrison's run overall didn't work well for me. The tone Morrison set was one of creepy revisionism, taking the whole "Phoenix" angle and "Weapon Plus," etc, and trying to make them work as a cohesive whole with his ideas, i.e. Cassandra Nova, the U-Men, Sublime, etc. Plus, I'm an old-school fanboy, and the whole "Scott-Emma" pairing kinda annoyed me. Yeah, I see the potential, but the idea that Jean as Phoenix needs Scott to embrace Emma to save the future...it didn't wash with me.

I reached a point in the X-titles lately where I'd read the book, see these characters I once knew like old friends, and I could hardly recognize them. Reading the first issue by Claremont and Davis, I knew these characters again. The smile of Nightcrawler, the kinship between Storm, Kurt, and Logan, the antagonism between Scott and Logan, plus seeing Dani Moonstar, Xi'an Coy Mahn, Rachel Summers aka Marvel Girl, and Bishop having fun, it was great fun. Time will tell if that bears out in future issues, but so far, so good.

Also, just a word on Priest: I loved his Black Panther run, but I'll be the first person to admit that it could be inaccessible to a new reader. However, I didn't start reading until Issue 26, the start of the "Sturm und Drang" arc, and I was able to follow what was going on, and it made me want to go back and find the back issues and fill myself in. I'm glad I did. That was a brilliant take on Black Panther, and I thoroughly recommend it. So far, Captain America and the Falcon is quite good as well, after having suffered through a few years of "relevant post-9/11 Captain America" at Marvel Knights. Mark Waid, why have you forsaken us?! Waid's Captain America was the finest the character had been in 20 years, and I hated that he was driven off the book twice, once to make way for Liefeld/Loeb Heroes Reborn Cap, and again because of editorial interference. (I believe that the assistant editor pretty much re-wrote a brilliant issue #14 featuring the Red Skull, causing Waid to ask that his name be removed from the credits of the book, for example.)

You know, I've kind of chuckled when I've looked at the marketing blitz for Superman/Batman's "Return of Kara" storyline. It was touted as the biggest event in comics right now, and yet, PAD did it (and better, from my "old-school fanboy" perspective) last year. Ah, well.

I've gotta say this...if PAD were still writing Supergirl or were even writing the current Superman/Batman storyline...there's no waythat Kansas-farm-raised, ultra-protective cousin Clark would let her go out in public with a thong showing (sigh).

Truly, we are back in the ages of Image tittilation.

Re:Micheal cravens and claremont
I guess im just burned out on claremont,I liked
seeing the Xmen in different ways and actually liked Morrison's attempt to execute all the new ideas.Its just i reached a point where I actually stopped reading the mutant books because it got way to involved with the multibook crossovers and storylines ,which i realize was at the feet of the editors more than the writers.Claremont and his writing began to bore me because of the (to me anyway)overuse of Captain Britain and Excalibur characters , i mean enough already.Also i felt there was a lack of change in the characters making them stale and that storylines were contrived to "shake up things"but then stuff went back to normal.
Priest did a good job on Panther but the stories worked better in arcs as opposed to one continous narrative.I was disappointed with the attempt to tie in some of the Kirby panther stories with King Solomons'frogs(Ugh)The Captain America /Falcon story was just to hard to follow
maybe it was the artwork but i just didnt feel the flow.
I will probably anger the hardcore xmen by saying this but i will just agree to disagree on whether or not Claremont and his return are a good thing.I loved the early Claremont/Byrne,stories pretty much around the silvestri days when the Longshot/Dazzler "Siege Perilous " story was when i lost interest.Then i stopped reading comics for a while and it was too hard to jump back in.Morrison got me reading the
Xmen again so maybe its just my bias.
Its pretty much the point I am at with the Hulk ,I just dont find myself caring about Banner anymore.Not a buttkissing session but it really went south after PAD left.
By the way Rob Liefeld should not be allowed within 500 feet of a comicbook til he goes to art school,has an original idea,and for god sakes learn to tell a story :)

Deano: Well, I think the biggest problem on Cap/Falcon by Priest has been the art. Bart Sears has a style that is great for some books, but I just don't think this is one of them. Fortunately for the book, Sears is leaving the book within an issue or two, and Joe Bennett is coming on board as the new artist, and his style is much more in synch with Priest than Sears. Priest himself has commented to that effect on his blog, that when he received some of the finished pages drawn by Sears, he was a little confused with some of the artistic choices that Sears chose. That's no bash of Sears, merely an example of a writer/artist/project teaming that was out of synch.

Morrison...again, I loved his ability to think wildly and creatively, and it's not that I think his grasp of the characters was off. I think he knew exactly who these characters were, but he just set a very "Morrisonian" tone, and its a heavy one that was followed by many of the other writers on the X-books for a few years there, like Joe Casey and Chuck Austen. Morrison's work on any established title seems to set a tone, as it did on JLA and Animal Man, and other writers gladly followed that tone because they loved what he was doing. The X-Men have had a few great years with this particular tone, but I'm frankly ready to return to the "Claremont" tone, which is more traditional. In a way, it's not hard to understand why I feel that way; I read the entirety of the Morrison run for the last three and a half years, and I'm ready to move on to something more traditional, something more fun and less heavy and philosophical. Time will tell if Claremont and Davis can do that, but so far, so good.

I'm sure in a few years, I'll be itching to get back to the heavier tone. It seems that longtime readers like myself are always asking "What's next?" and I suspect that's why PAD was always trying to reinvent the books he's worked on with a fresh tone and status quo every few years. On the Incredible Hulk, we went from the "gray Hulk" to Joe Fixit to the merged Hulk in the Pantheon, and forward to new permutations and new examinations of the fractured Banner psyche; with Supergirl, it was the Earthborn Angel saga to the "Search for Supergirl" to "Many Happy Returns."

I think I tore a few ligaments in my stretching to bring this back to topic in that last paragraph. Ow. :-)

Micheal Craven said " i think i tore a few ligaments in my neck stretching to bring this back to topic"
Very funny and dont worry i have hurt my back and sprained an ankle jumping to conclusions and leaping from topic to topic.:)
Glad to hear i was not the only thrown off by Sears 'artwork,maybe i will give it try again to see if i get it with a different artist.

"Sales climmbed exponentially, even though DC didn't put a scintilla of promotion into it. Then they canceled it, took the same concept, did it in Superman/Batman with the full weight of the PR department behind it, and boom, the number one book."

Sorry, PAD, as I stated earlier, I loved the story, but to constantly compare your Kara storyline and the promotion it received and "Superman/Batman's" Return of Kara storyline is sour grapes at worst and disingenuous at best when you consider the following statements/facts:

1.) "Superman/Batman" didn't "boom" become the number one book BECAUSE of the Kara storyline. The title DEBUTED at NUMBER THREE (behind Neil Gaiman's 1602 and the still superhot Lee/Loeb "Batman" #618). It was one of the top-selling comics of the YEAR.
The book has been a consistent Top-Ten seller. In fact, "Superman/Batman" #6 and 7, the two issues immediately preceding their Return of Kara storyline, were NUMBER FOUR in term of sales.
It's really not that far a climb from NUMBER FOUR to NUMBER ONE, is it?
Meanwhile, your "Supergirl" was out of the Top 100 when the storyline started. That's a helluva climb to make.
In fact, it took the third issue of the storyline - which was the first where retailers were able to accurately order based on response to #75 - to even crack the Top 100. And it barely did so, as "Supergirl" #77 landed at NUMBER 98. Issue #78 landed at NUMBER 82.

2.) You, yourself, at the time, contributed the book's demise to economics and even credited DC with giving you one last shot.
"I didn't deliver the numbers", you said then, "The Kara storyline was done specifically to save the book from being cancelled. I was hoping for a 25-50 percent increase in sales, but when the numbers for #75 came in, it was only up a disapointing 2,000 copies.
"I Immediately knew that was it for the book", you continued, "I wish DC had waited to see the overall sales of the arc before making their decision, but the retailers are the one who realy missed the boat. They didnt get behind it."
But retailers claimed there wasn't enough of an incentive to significantly increase "Supergirl"'s orders.
"Peter David has a very loyal following", said Avrom Oliver, owner of Adventures in Comics and Games in Carmichael, California, "but the numbers for "Supergirl" used to do well and they definitely tapered off towards the end. It's difficult to increase orders much with that in mind."

3.) Many people are picking up "Superman/Batman" not primarily for the Kara storyline, but because of Michael Turner's art.

Honestly, PAD. You had an 80-issue run on the title. DC kept publishing the title even after it had it's sales sunk to abysmal levels. They gave you one last shot and despite the improvement it wasn't enough. Then they gave you another book, "Fallen Angel", immediately thereafter which is decidedly non-commercial and which they have kept publishing for a year despite sales that would have gotten many series the ax by now.
Can't you be happy about that?

PAD,
Hope that last post doesn't come off as a bitch session. I still love most of your work.
However, rereading some of these posts, made me think of something.
When Chris Claremont and Marvel announced he was deciding to write the X-Men again, he said in an interview, "I saw an e-mail where somebody said, "I can't wait to read this new guy, Chris Claremont. Which just shows you always have the chance to introduce yourself to somebody new!"
Do you ever think it might be wise, once in a while, to try your hand at the high-profile "icons"? Imagine if you were part of the recent Superman title "recharge" with Azzarello, Lee and all the rest. I would LOVE to see your creativity with Supes! And the themes you could play with on "Truth, Justice and the American Way!"
I would love to see you get inside Batman's head, or do something Waidesque with the "FF". And a lot of fans of your work were realy hoping you'd get "Avengers".
And i can't stand Paul Jenkis on "Spectacular Spider-Man". You AND JMS on Spidey? Nirvana!
I know you prefer making overlooked, lower-profile characters cool. You can play with them more and get less editorial interference.
But the problem, as I see it, is you've been doing low-profile books for so long - like Aquaman and Supergirl - that there are thousands of readers who simply aren't familiar with your stuff. They don't know who you are.
Movie stars do this al the time. Tom Cruise knows if he wants to get fans and funding for "Magnolia" and "Eyes Wide Shut", he has to do a "Mission Impossible" movie once in a while.
In closing, let me say I think it's cool and almost admirable the way you constantly challenge yourself with low-profile characters and projects. But it might be beneficial for you to go the other way for just a little bit.
Thanks.

Deano,
Kind of have mixed feelings about Claremont. They are, in a way, his "babies". At the same time, I feel he has lost his "fastball", so to speak.
But the best thing about the X books today is that they are so different. You have the much villified (unfairly, IMO)Chuck Austen (LOVE his "Action"). You have the Ultimate version, you have a new writer making his mark in New Mutants/New X-Men: Mutant Academy. You have Wolverine, which is very up and down in terms of quality, depending on the writer. You have Emma Frost, which is great for young and old readers (and those greg Horn covers! Wow!). And you have Mystique, which is a cool as hell spy and espionage book.
Oh, and there's a little book by somebody named Joss Whedon!
As far as crossovers, they can be both good and bad. bad if they're completely gratuitous. But in the case of the "Batman" titles, for example, a crossover like "Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive" can help "sister" books like "Nightwing", "Robin", "Birds of Prey" and "Batgirl" reach new readers.

"I would love to see you get inside Batman's head,"

Hang on. Who's doing Batgirl once Dylan Horrocks leaves?

Alan:

>Hang on. Who's doing Batgirl once Dylan Horrocks leaves?

Hold your horses, man. She's underage. :)

Alan:

>Hang on. Who's doing Batgirl once Dylan Horrocks leaves?

Is there any possible way that this statement can be rephrased? :)

1.) "Superman/Batman" didn't "boom" become the number one book BECAUSE of the Kara storyline."

WRONG. You're not taking into account that S/B stars not one, but DC's TOP TWO FRANCHISE properties. The book was practically GUARRANTEED to be a Top Ten book, just by the marquee BRAND NAME VALUE alone. Now add all those DISENFRANCHISED Supergirl fans who've been angry and waiting NEARLY A YEAR for DC to kick that useless 'Un-Supergirl' Cir-El to the curb. So if anything, this "Return of NuKara" storyarc has been a PREMEDITATED 'success' by DC ALL ALONG (and one need only look at all the ALTERNATIVE COVERS they're tossing out for #8, #10 and #13 to further see the evidence).

"The book has been a consistent Top-Ten seller. In fact, "Superman/Batman" #6 and 7, the two issues immediately preceding their Return of Kara storyline, were NUMBER FOUR in term of sales.
It's really not that far a climb from NUMBER FOUR to NUMBER ONE, is it?"

Sure, but keep in mind that when this 'event' went to #1, it was during a SOFT MONTH for comics in general.

"Meanwhile, your "Supergirl" was out of the Top 100 when the storyline started. That's a helluva climb to make.
In fact, it took the third issue of the storyline - which was the first where retailers were able to accurately order based on response to #75 - to even crack the Top 100."

Yeah, but WHOSE FAULT is that? The author is NOT RESPONSIBLE for INSUFFICIENT PROMOTION by the publisher; he's just supposed to WRITE THE STORY.

"But retailers claimed there wasn't enough of an incentive to significantly increase "Supergirl"'s orders."

Uh-huh....the return of a beloved character that hasn't been around for TWENTY YEARS wasn't incentive enough? And the addition of a NEW ARTIST TEAM wasn't sufficient enough, either? Tell us another one, oh, 'mighty defender of mediocrity'; Benes and Lei seem to be doing VERY WELL over on BIRDS OF PREY....

"3.) Many people are picking up "Superman/Batman" not primarily for the Kara storyline, but because of Michael Turner's art."

WRONG again. While some of Turner's 'cult of personality' have been responding, it's mostly been fans of DC's TOP FRANCHISE CHARACTERS who have been buying these issues. And as for the "sell-outs" of S/B being perpetrated by DC's hyperbole department, it's due to RETAILERS OVERBUYING these issues in heady bouts of SPECULATIVE fury. The REAL TRUTH is that one can EASILY find ANY of these issues; even first printings of S/B #8 are still WIDELY AVAILABLE at shops, conventions and on eBay.

KET

KET,
Geez, man, settle down, will you? "Mighty defender of mediocrity"? Sheesh! Did I even say I LIKED the book?
I don't think so. It isn't terrible, but not earth-shattering either.
But since you seem to be making arguments, let me respond in kind:

1.) "Superman/Batman" stars not one but two of DC's top commercial properties. So if THAT's the reason it's so popular, it kind of shoots down your argument, since PAD's storyline had neither on a constant basis, and Supes only intermittently, and besides...
It's not like a Bat or Superman title is a GUARANTEED blockbuster. Batman's flagship title does OK when there's top talent working on it, like Loeb and Lee, which is pretty often these days.
But "Detective" hardly does as well, and only comes close when there's a huge crossover like "Murderer/Fugitive".
And "Shadow of the Bat"/"Gothan Knights" always trail far behind those two?
"Superman"? Name me one time before the recent Azzarello/Lee issues that this title was in the Top 10. Or Top 20 for that matter. Even the "marketing" push by DC last year with "The Ten-Cent Adventure" did not help. Could it be because the story, in which the "lame Supergirl" was introduced failed to excite fans enough.
Fact is, if it wasn't for the licensing and the NEED to have books out there, Supes titles may well have been cancelled a while back. He was sinking for yeard, Loeb kind of helped, but even he could only do so much.
For much of the past decade, Supes' books have hovered (or been mired) in the low 40s on the sales charts and more often than not been in the 50s and even 60s.
And "Man of Steel" was cancelled and the last figures for "Batman:Legends of the Dark Knight" show it placing at # 97.
So, obviously these TWO TOP FRANCHISE PROPERTIES don't automatically sell because of their "status" and name recognition.
And if the BRAND NAME VALUE of the characters was enough by itself to support a book, let alone make a best-seller, well, "World's Finest" would never have gotten the ax, now, would it? Or DC would have revisited the concept long before now.

2.) It was a soft month for comics in general? Sure, and it just happened to be #4 during "hard" months for no reason?
Actually, saying it was a "soft" month kind of weakens your argument that it was the "credit/blame" of DC's marketing that got it to #1.
Soft month. Okay. Got it.

3.) Who says it has to be ANY ONE ENTITY OR PERSON"S FAULT?
Every book can't gey a two-page spread in Diamond.
So do we blame the readers for not buying it? I know a retailer who pushed both "Supergirl" and "Spider-Girl" ferociously, but has had limited success with each.
Do we BLAME the retailers for not ordering enough? Sorry, it's a lot to ask of retailers to optimistically order a book that wasn't even in the Top 100. No matter how BELOVED you feel the character was, it's not like she was a proven sales draw in her previous incarnations. They obviously guessed wrong, but can hardly be villified for it.
Do we BLAME PAD for not doing more "commercial" stories, or something?
No. It's his book. He can write whatever stories he damn well pleases.
Can we blame DC "for not marketing it enough"? Sure. But can we also give them credit for keeping the title going even when sales went in the toilet, for giving the book one last chance with the Kara storyline, and for at least allowing him to FINISH the book on his terms?
I think we should. Marvel cancelled a "Blade" series a while back right in the middle of a story, and Dark Horse did the same thing with a "Xena" series a few years ago, because they were simply losing too much money on the book to allow the creative team to finish what they started.
And certain writers today, like Bendis, sure can sell a book. And the fact that Loeb had a well-received run on "Superman" both critically and saleswise and then a superhot run on "Batman" (a character he had made his mark on in well-received limited-series and one-shots beforehand) immediately preceding "Superman/Batman" certainly had quite a bit to do with fan anticipation for the book.
Heck, his run on "Fantastic Four", for example, didn't set cash registers smoking, but since he had shown he could do these characters and do them well, well the combination was lethal, especially with the art, which brings me to...

3.) If you don't think Turner's art has played a large part in the book's blockbuster sales, when he made "Fathom" a #1 book by the strength of his name, if you don't think fanboys aren't lapping up his renditions of Supergirl and Wonder Woman, you're out of your mind.

Again, I loved "Many Happy Returns". PAD certainly deserves his award. But many, many worthy books have gotten the ax through the years. I have seen books I truly loved, like "Rom", "New Warriors" (Fabian's crew), "Silver Surfer", "Moon Knight" (almost ruined by Terry Kavanagh), "Power Man/ Iron Fist" and countless others bite the dust. It always hurts.
But for every title cancelled, there can be a new, fresh title to take it's place.
I mean if "Supergirl" was still here, we wouldn't have "Fallen Angel". "Captain Marvel" is ending, but now we have "MadroX" and PAD's "Hulk" mini to look forward to.
"Supergirl" had a helluva run and was a lot of fun, and ended with a bang. That's more than a lot of books can say, and more than a lot of creators can hope for.
That's all.

I would like to see PAD on a high profile book.
Or even a medium profile book.There are many characters out there that i would like to see his take on.One of my personal favorites who is getting a miniseries soon THE QUESTION.ok hes more low profile but i gotta admit i always had a thing for more low profile characters ,especially the highly skilled normal.So forget what i said...No
really it would be interesting to see PAD on more big time books.
Jerome ,gotta admit i like your taste in books
MOON KNIGHT?!Holy smoke, i thought i was the only person who remembered him.
As far as who does Batgirl now...thats sick man,just sick:)Seriously i would like to see Gail
Simone(Birds of Prey), Terry Moore (strangers in paradise )or Greg Rucka.
Big Plug for JMS and Gary Frank on Supreme Power.If you read and enjoyed the Wildcards books ,Watchmen,or Morrison on the JLA.Check out this book!!!!!!

"Hold your horses, man. She's underage. :)"

Smart-ass! ^_^

Let's just say it would be an interesting conversation... :p

"Is there any possible way that this statement can be rephrased? :)"

Who's WRITING Batgirl once Dylan Horrocks leaves?

re:Micheal Cravens
I went back and read Priest's Captain america /Falcon story again.The storyline is good though i feel he repeats the whole "naval intelligence,superfreak with a purpose "line too much .The artwork is killing me.Its too hard too follow some of the action sequences and to be able to tell characters apart.Bart Sears does not work on this title for me.Will see what the new artists bring