Forty five people in Europe have died in a heatwave. Ascribing it to the work of terrorists, the White House is currently exploring the feasibility of sending US troops to the Sun.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at August 12, 2003 01:08 PM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingThis joke was in very poor taste. 45 people dying because of a heat wave is not appropriate fodder for an easy jab at George Bush.
I reckon the joke just needs fine-tuning.
After all, were these "Old Europeans" or "New Europeans"? Can you really see Georgie sending troops to the assistance of the French, who allowed him use of their airspace in the Iraq war?
Would he really be so quick to help the Germans, even though they've been cleaning up his mess in Afghanistan, and provided crucial logistical support in the Iraq war?
No, didn't think so.
What a lot of folks in the States don't know is that air conditioning is extremely rare in much of Western Europe. If you want AC in England you have to get either one of those portable unit with the hose that sticks out the window (and which costs around $1500) or go to a supermarket or mall. We're very concerned about Robin's family at this point.
I wouldn't consider the bad taste the problem of the joke (after all, most on the good ones are often kinda bad taste), but I wonder what kick PAD gets out of trolling - which this understandably will be for pretty much anyone who's less liberal minded than him.
Me, I really don't care... I'm just sitting here in the middle of Europe at 100+ F and wishing autumn would finally arrive - btw, the British isles are nowhere near as hot...
On air conditioning, we simply are less touchy about temperature, it seems... I'm constantly amazed whenever I have to go to the US with your country's obsession to turn the temperature WAY down so that it's already freezing - I strongly believe it's better for your health if you don't constantly go through such strong differences between closed space (i.e. really cool) and the outside (i.e. the opposite), so some moderation would likely be more reasonable
My $0.01: Mr. David, you're getting punchy.
I've been following your internet postings since your reply to the startrek newsgroup denizens who were planning to draft you to take over for the recently-deceased Gene Roddenberry. I wish I remembered your exact words, but it was the best example of a polite "buzz off, jerks!" I'd ever seen.
For years afterward, you've been a consistent standard of gentlemanly conduct.
But lately, it seems like you've been letting sore points get to you. The threads bringing up the John Byrne board were a recent example of this.
You might want to gafiate a bit from this board, if I can invoke the old acronym.
Mitch
Since so many of the European countries are afraid of global warming, you would think that they would have been prepared for a hot summer.
The ironic thing, of course, is that if this heat wave and the other odd weather of the summer - where is that darned sun anyway. asked the New Yorker? - is due to global warming, then at the very least Dubya and Co. are to be held accountable for not admitting there is a problem. I truly believe that all-time record highs in Europe and elsewhere over the past 15 years add up to something, but the current administration acts as if there is no potential catastrophe in the making.
But then, in this they are not unique. I doubt most Americans care, weathering the heat wave and then forgetting there might a bigger problem once fall comes. Alas, no one is getting elected to the White House on a strong anti-global warming platform.
"Since the dawn of time, man has dreamed of blotting out the Sun." - J. Montgomery Burns
Meantime here in New York City we're having varying amounts of rain almost every day. I think 27 of the last 35 days have had rain.
I'm inclined to think that it was in very poor taste, too. To use the deaths of real people as the basis of a joke, whatever the purpose of that joke, is just insensitive and at least mildly grotesque.
Was the joke good?...PAD has done better. Was it in poor taste..debatable. I am reminded of David Letterman when a guest asked him why he wasn't making any jokes about O.J. David's response was "Somehow I don't think double homicide is funny". Yet he didn't hesitate later to make many Robert Blake jokes and after a time began making O.J. jokes. It is all in your perspective.
Sheesh. If Tina Fey had said it, everyone would've laughed.
I still remember when pundits were blaming the music of Marilyn Manson for the Columbine shootings. Jon Stewart subsequently did a report about tornados ripping through the midwest, leaving death and destruction behind, and then shook his fist at the air and shouted, "Damn you, Marilyn Manson!"
I write about things that occur to me, amuse me, or catch my interest. That's what a blog is: A snapshot of what's on my mind when I post it. Reading too much into any stray thought can be a real time waster...although I admit it *is* interesting to see what sets people off and what they ignore.
It's amazing to me, though, that a passing comment about Bush can end up with, like, a hundred responses. But I do a whole essay about the history of the "Fire in a theater" thing--which to me was really interesting--and got maybe 20 replies.
PAD
Funny one, Mr. David! (I'm new to your blog, but a long time fan!)
People are taking the joke way too seriously. I really can't stand how people are WAY over sensitive about various political issues.
If I was the U.S. government, I'd place my bets on Saddam or Osama having possession of a Weather Machine.
PAD I think you hit the nail on the head when you wrote "If Tina Fey had said it, everyone would've laughed." Some jokes are funny when verbalized, but when written the get a different (knee-jerk)reaction.
I am interested to know if the reaction to the joke was due to the apparent levity towards the death of 45 people or your jab at Bush. Of course I am no judge here. One of my favorite books when I was in High School was "Truly Tasteless Jokes". I can usually find humor in anything.
On the verge of funny, but you forget that Bush is in Texas right now, we've been in the 100's for about a month now...
I also agree with the poster above... lewjaschin, that many here in the States are obsessed with the AC. I think that it would keep many summer colds away if they'd just turn up the temp a little. BTW, I live without AC here in Texas, had four straight days last week with heat index over 110, air temp right at 100, I live this way by choice (and pocketbook) since it would take more money than I make a month just to cool this house I live in.
jeff
As unreasoned as I think Peter's anti-war ramblings are, I must admit that I found the joke amusing.
But he's still no Tina Fey.
-Dave O'Connell
It reminds me of the South Park ep where GWB was about to go to war with Heaven because Saddam was building WMDs there. (since, of course, in SP universe Saddam died in the 'Bigger, Longer, and Uncut' movie)
I thought the show by SPs creators 'Thats My Bush!' was a classic. Probably more a more accurate description of the White House than 'The West Wing'.
Sure, it's funny now, but I bet that you won't be laughing so hard when the US Government blows up the sun.
Hmm, I'd have to say that if you're concerned about friends or family in Europe or someone in your family had been one of the 45, now up to 100 BTW, it wouldn't have been funny, no matter who said it.
On the other hand, blowing up the sun, now there's the solution to global warming, and it's a long term solution too!
Just don't let George Bush anywhere near Kyp Durron, or we're all in trouble.
For what it's worth, I thought it was funny and I found the whole "fire in a theatre" thing very interesting.
Eric
For what it's worth, I thought it was mildly amusing and I found the whole "fire in a theatre" thing kinda scary.
As for "That's My Bush"....I miss that show.
On the other hand, blowing up the sun, now there's the solution to global warming, and it's a long term solution too!
Unless you live in the DC universe.
Hard to believe, Peter.
20 some posts and no one brought
up the obvious,
"Studies show best opportunity
will be at night"
reference.
No sensahumor here.
--Ed
As for "That's My Bush"....I miss that show.
Really? It didn't do much for me. And I'm someone who likes "South Park" and isn't wild about GWB (huh. George Washington Bridge. Never noticed that) so I'd have been a natural to be a fan of it.
Maybe it's because Bush was such an easy target that it was shooting fish in a barrel. Or maybe it's just that the jokes weren't funny.
I mean, y'know, I get it. They're doing a 60s sitcom about a guy who Just Happens to be president, and he's got all the other sitcom tropes such as a wacky neighbor who comes and goes with impunity--which makes no sense, but it's not supposed to.
If Gore had won, it'd have been "That's My Gore." That might actually have been funnier, because Gore has a public image of taking himself so seriously and also being very intelligent. So playing him like a combination of Cliff Clavin and Chevy Chase's Gerald Ford would've been a hoot. Y'know, like he's constantly spilling soup and such because he's so stiff that he won't bend to eat it. He would have been a literal straightman to everyone else. But the public perception of GWB was that he was a doofus, so doing a sitcom where he's a doofus...eh.
PAD
on sunday the uk had it's hottest day ever yet still one person got frost bite? while someone else got hyperthermia!
hey only in the uk
This joke was in very poor taste. 45 people dying because of a heat wave is not appropriate fodder for an easy jab at George Bush.
Posted by Nick @ 08/12/2003 01:18 PM
hey what isnt an easy jab at the guy, at this point ill place my trust in gary coleman more.
Remember folks, comedy = tragedy + time, NOT tragedy + cheap shots.
I'm with you, Peter. Which, I guess, is obvious because I'm here and I'm commenting (then again, this is one of the only comment blogs I read where comments don't necessarily = "with you," which has always puzzled me...)
Anyway, three bells on that one. :)
Actually, I thought the "Fire in a crowded theater" column was fascinating. I just didn't have anything to add to it in response.
I think this joke was in poor taste. But, I guess thats a subjective view.
And Peter, just becuase the people your around think Bush is a doofus doesn't mean everyone thinks like that.
"If Gore had won, it'd have been "That's My Gore." That might actually have been funnier, because Gore has a public image of taking himself so seriously and also being very intelligent. So playing him like a combination of Cliff Clavin and Chevy Chase's Gerald Ford would've been a hoot. Y'know, like he's constantly spilling soup and such because he's so stiff that he won't bend to eat it. He would have been a literal straightman to everyone else. But the public perception of GWB was that he was a doofus, so doing a sitcom where he's a doofus...eh.
PAD"
You're probably right there, PAD.
In fact, when Parker and Stone first conceptualized the show, it was going to be about Al Gore because they thought Gore was going to win. After Florida they had to change the concept to fit Bush.
I read an interview with Parker and Stone and they said that the first episode of the Gore show would have about a killer robot menacing DC, and everybody mistakes Gore for the robot and the robot for Gore.
That would of been hillarious.
as someone implied above that some people like Bush!?
true, how scarey is that
but hey some people like sabbam & bin larden as well
so what ya sayin'?
Just don't let George Bush anywhere near Kyp Durron, or we're all in trouble.
I got that, and that scares me.
As long as we're tossing out relatively obscure references: forget the Scarrans, my worry is that George Bush will get wormhole technology.
Can someone explain in more detail the whole Europe/air conditioning thing? What, they just don't like it? That seems a bit strange. Speaking as an asthmatic I can't imagine life without it. So much for my dreams of living in England, I guess.
JLK
And Peter, just becuase the people your around think Bush is a doofus doesn't mean everyone thinks like that.
[comment unavailable, writer knocked unconscious by irony]
JLK
**I think this joke was in poor taste. But, I guess thats a subjective view.
And Peter, just becuase the people your around think Bush is a doofus doesn't mean everyone thinks like that.**
That's right, I see him as more of an older more enlightened Gilligan.
SPB
"If it happens to me, it's a tragedy. If it happens to you, it's a comedy" - Mel Brooks
I don't want to defend "That's My Bush" too strongly, because the show never really gelled. But there WAS more going on than just portraying GWB as a doofus in a sit-com White House.
It often did some sharp, funny satire--like when Bush decided to go against the Republican party and ban guns, because he was deathly afraid someone might try to shoot him. Or the abortion episode where the pro life lobbyist was a half-aborted fetus.
I think it would have gotten better if it had survived (the show, not the fetus).
Re: Western Europe and no AC. Well, having lived in Switzerland, I've experienced this first hand. The simple answer is that it's very rare when it's needed. Note that this was the first time in recorded history that anywhere in Britain hit 100F.
Take a look at weather.com at various European cities and their average highs for August (look for "averages and records" at the top of the 10-day forecast). For London, the average August daily high temperature is a whopping 70F.
For Paris, 75F. For Berlin, 73F. And for my old stomping grounds of Lausanne, Switzerland, 75F (OK so it didn't have it for Lausanne. I used 30 miles away Geneva's temps instead).
People forget just how far north Western Europe is, and how much the Gulf Stream keeps them from freezing in the winter. New York City is at 40.43 N latitude. London is at 51.30 N. Anchorage is at 61.13N, meaning that London is roughly halfway towards Anchorage going north from New York City.
It reminds me of the South Park ep where GWB was about to go to war with Heaven because Saddam was building WMDs there. (since, of course, in SP universe Saddam died in the 'Bigger, Longer, and Uncut' movie)
Yeah, he did... but it was in the "sequel" episodes where he was placed in heaven because he was trying to take over hell. And where better than heaven, which was... well, not full, but only mormons. Parker and Stone have something against mormons. I guess they think they're funny (Cannibal the Musical, anyone?)
Oh and if you want real offensive? Lewis Black's CD The End of The Universe.
Freaking hilarious.
Travis
Personally, I wasn’t offended at the joke because it a joke directed at Bush rather than the heat victims.
Peter David: Sheesh. If Tina Fey had said it, everyone would've laughed.
Luigi Novi: That’s different. You make allowances for hot women you want to boink. :-)
ObeeKris: Who's Tina Fey?
Luigi Novi: She’s the first female head writer on Saturday Night Live, and is co-anchor of the Weekend Update segment with Jimmy Fallon.
She's also cute as hell, and one of the few women that looks sexy in glasses. :-)
Ok i find this funny. And do you know what? I'm a European, a German.
Thanks for such Fun things, there good to read when you are sitting in the middle of all the Heat. It's good to know that our Neighbour is still so interested in us.
With a grin from Germany MS
Well, it may be tasteless, but gave me a chuckle...
It's been disturbingly cool on my end (eastern great lakes)...
Well, if you want to examine what's funny....for some reason Peter's thought that GWB = George Washington Bridge killed me. I don't know why, I just wasn't expecting that. It's the little things.
Here in Southeast Michigan, the weather has been normal almost all summer, except for the excess rain. Everybody is complaining that it is too cold. This is because we have had some exceedingly hot summers in the past 15 years.
Hyper, as a prefix, means too much or a lot.
Hyperthermia therefore means too much heat.
Hypothermia is where you freeze to death.
Actually, the Mel Brooks quote describing comedy is as follows:
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when *you* walk into an open sewer and die."
And, of course, it's one of my favourite quotes...
I thought it was hilarious. That's as a European too. Don't be so damn PC. Cheers.
I find it funny that folks (like me) who are in Europe had no problem with the joke, while folks in the US did. You guys really need to get rid of that political correctness nonsense.
Speaking of things you need to get rid of, can some American explain to me why you're still sticking with Fahrenheit, when we've had Celsius for about 260 years now? Surely a scale that goes from freezing at 0 to boiling at 100 makes a lot more sense?
It'd certainly make it easier for Dubya to work out the optimum time to attack the sun....
"It's all relatives," said the probate lawyer.
Up here in Ottawa we didn't see what the fuss was about the temperature hitting the mid-upper thirties in England. We often get that sort of climate here in summer. In fact, we've had it up to 40C a few times that I can recall. This past week has had us at about the 30C mark (86F), more if one factors in the high humidity. And, yes, many people still haven't got air conditioning here.
One thing which WAS funny was in the 70s when a visiting group of Fiji 'firewalkers' complained about the temperature in Ottawa. Too hot and humid for them. Definitely an entry in the 'you know you're in trouble when..." category.
>startrek newsgroup denizens who were planning to draft you to take over for the recently-deceased Gene Roddenberry.
Pity. I have NO DOUBT whatsoever that Mr. David would have done a FAR better job that the twits at the helm now. Assuming the idiots at the studio would have let him do it HIS way, of course.
As for the "Fire in the threatre" thing, I didn't reply, but that was merely because I had nothing to add. In fact, I quoted much of it to many people I correspond with.
And, yes, my co-workers and I found the 'send troops to the sun' gag quite amusing. And richly deserved. I've run into too many who proclaim "I'm an American, so if I want to use my gas-guzzling, polluting SUV to go to the corner store, it's my God-given right." I'm all in favour of anyone who wishes to knock them down a peg or three.
Simon, is the temp scale your only problem? I've been showing people for a number of years why metric is better than non-metric. ("How many slugs are there in a pound?" vs. "How many decajabberwockies are in a kilojabberwocky?")
Still, I'd probably use Kelvin instead of Celsius just so that 60 degrees isn't twice as hot as 30 degrees. ;)
I can't believe we are so P.C. that people have actually become afraid to laugh. Tragic--you betcha'...Funny--oh yeah! The world is wound so tight right now I'm all for anything that slaps us down a bit. No where in PAD's post did he deny the horror of people dying but hopefully he took a little of the sting out of it. Thank the godz that George Carlin was already well established by the the time we (the world collective) began fitting our butt for the sizeable stick we've managed to work in. As a great man named Taylor once said,"I have to believe that somewhere out there there has to be something greater than man!". I hope it shows up soon and it's wearing funny pants.
"I find it funny that folks (like me) who are in Europe had no problem with the joke, while folks in the US did. You guys really need to get rid of that political correctness nonsense."
"Speaking of things you need to get rid of, can some American explain to me why you're still sticking with Fahrenheit, when we've had Celsius for about 260 years now? Surely a scale that goes from freezing at 0 to boiling at 100 makes a lot more sense?"
Personally, I found the joke GREAT! and was still laughing when I read the first gripe. I agree with the "Get rid of your political correctness" statement, I mean it was just a JOKE! And the Farenheit scale was developed for the human limitations, while the centigrade scale was developed for the liquid limitations. But I'm still laughing!
I thought it was funny...and since this is a comic book crowd, I'm surprised that no one has asked if they'd put Steven Trask in charge of the project...
Why no metric system?
Because it's French.
(or was it the Stonecutters....)
Dale
ps: PAD, I liked the joke
Jago - Thanks for the correct Mel Brooks quote. To be honest I didn't remember the exact quote, but I remembered the jist of it.
But I'm sure this one is correct: "It's funny because it's someone else" - Homer Simpson.
Luigi: She's also cute as hell, and one of the few women that looks sexy in glasses. :-)
Well I don't know about that, I personally am a big fan of glasses on women. Now, it has to be the right style for the right face. I just wouldn't go as far as saying one of the few.
"As long as we're tossing out relatively obscure references: forget the Scarrans, my worry is that George Bush will get wormhole technology."
So that's why he's been drinking so much tequila. He's trying to interrogate the worm at the bottom of the bottle.
As far as the joke...I guess the problem is that Mr. D referred to a specific number of people dying. If he had simply said "People have died from heat prostration," there'd be fewer complaints. "A lot" is less specific. Mentioning a number is a nasty reminder that there are real people behind those digits.
The people in Britain are always claiming they have the worst weather in the world, and you can't convince them otherwise. They will probably claim this is another example of their intrinsic toughness. (But they could have asked their American cousins how we deal with Florida summers. My first suggestion - try ice in your tea. It's not as evil as you think.)
"If Tina Fey had said it, everyone would've laughed."
Tina Fey has the advantage of delivering it as part of a verbal routine. Different "rules of comedy" are often in effect for material done purely in text venues without the benefit of delivery, timing, facial expressions, etc.
1) PAD's right: if Tina Fey had said it, everyone would have laughed. But I'm not sure everyone would have laughed had Fey *written* it on a blog. Not worth hanging him by his thumbs, however...
2) People interested in the broader issues here (other than global climate change, which we should all be interested in....) might want to check out the following:
The first, _Heat Wave: A Social Autopsy of Disaster in Chicago_, by Eric Klineberg, is phenomenal.
The second, _Cool Comfort: America's Romance With Air-Conditioning_, by Marsha Ackerman, wears its biases too plainly on its sleeve, but still raises good questions about our unexamined assumptions regarding the worth of altering our personal environments to any extent we see fit (cooler, warmer, wetter, drier) just becuase we've figured out how to do so.
Andrew: Well I don't know about that, I personally am a big fan of glasses on women. Now, it has to be the right style for the right face. I just wouldn't go as far as saying one of the few.
Luigi Novi: I'll ammend it. What I should've said was that she's one of the few sexy women who became famous as a woman in glasses.
Send troops to the sun? But how will they keep from burning up? Does Bush have a plan for that?
Well, acording to the spanish paper "El Pais", 45 alone are Spanish.
France claims 100 casualties due to the heatwave, so after being informed of this, Bush has decided that the Sun is a close ally, and has threathened the Moon for its unaceptable interference in this rightful crusade against the axis of evil
You really should syndicate your weblog out to other services. I'd love to have your rantings on my Livejournal Friend's List.
Wow, you people just can't take a joke for what it is.
As a society do we just overanalyse everything and pick at it until it becomes too dull a subject to be funny.
I am in Europe and I thought it was funny, it was a joke, I can guess pretty easily that PAD doesn't hate Europeans so just laugh, don't say it's politically incorrect or deconstruct it and move on to the next joke.
"Sheesh. If Tina Fey had said it, everyone would've laughed."
Honestly, I think I liked it better coming from you. But that's just because I'm sick to death of Saturday Night Live and everything associated with it.
"I still remember when pundits were blaming the music of Marilyn Manson for the Columbine shootings. Jon Stewart subsequently did a report about tornados ripping through the midwest, leaving death and destruction behind, and then shook his fist at the air and shouted, "Damn you, Marilyn Manson!""
Hee hee. Now THAT's funny!
I guess I just find Jewish men funnier than hot women in glasses ...
(Kidding, of course. Avi Green need not comment.)
And don't worry, PAD, the "fire in a theatre" thing WAS fascinating, but as another poster said, there possibly wasn't much that people thought they could add.
I, for one, was educated by that post, and I will probably bring up that info the next time it's appropriate, so I can look all learned and stuff.
Okay, I laughed. Bad taste? Come on. Did you SEE the latest "Bad Boys" movie? Bad taste is rolling a corpse down a highway for laughs.
Dying is easy. Comedy is hard. Try getting a sense of humor. Rent to own, you might like it.
As per the people who accused PAD of trolling: I think it's impossible to "troll" one's own blog. Ditto the people always screaming about PAD's right to post his political opinions. News flash: It's his blog. Not mine. Not yours. Geddit?
This is PAD's world, and we get to live in it because he chooses to keep it an open board. So maybe some respect would be appropriate. If you don't like PAD's opinions, why are you here?
Amen, Elizabeth. Well said.
Political correctness is freaking out of control. It's possible to brandish a sense of humor and still be an intelligent, compassionate, respectful human being.
But more to the point, if you don't like the humor here (or the politics here, or ANYTHING here) then why are YOU here?
The people in Britain are always claiming they have the worst weather in the world, and you can't convince them otherwise. They will probably claim this is another example of their intrinsic toughness.
Ha. Again I say, ha.
Back in 1986 it was my privilege to pick the lovely Sarah Sutton of Doctor Who fame up from Lambert Airport in St. Louis and deliver her to the hotel where we were holding TARDISCON. This stalwart Brit left the sweet cool confines of the terminal, stepped into the 96+, humidity-from-hell environs we deal with every summer...
...and wilted like a dead lily. It was truly a sight to see.
Note to Europe: we have all the cool air and low humidity at the moment, and WE AREN'T GIVING IT UP.
JSM
Some years ago, while flipping through the channels on the radio, I happened to tune in to the Rush Limbaugh show.
This was in the immediate aftermath of a fairly large hurricane. Rush, through some truly amazing twists of "logic", managed to blame the hurricane on Clinton.
I got a chuckle out of that. But then I stopped laughing when I realized that there are a LOT of people who think he's a serious political commentator...
I disagree: I wouldn't have found it funny if Tina Fey had said it.
Nothing personal to Mr David.... but I don't think that the joke was funny, regardless of method of delivery.
Just... not funny.
Peter
I may not of liked the joke....
but i will defend your right to tell it..
and my right not to laugh!
You just made my day, Mr. David. I've relatives over in France and the heat wave has worried me a great deal (why o why can't I ship some of our stormy weather their way? unfair!), but I still welcome the dark humor. Laughing is better than worrying.
Just read through the comments, and there are two things I'd like to add.
Send troops to the sun? But how will they keep from burning up? Does Bush have a plan for that?
Of course he does. He's going to send them at night. :)
David
1 - I gotta admit, I didn't think the joke was funny either. It's not that it was in poor taste, just that it's that category of pointed satire and I think it fell a little short of the real targets in this situation, Bush sending troops as, to paraphrase George Carlin, a big, d---waving contest, Rumsfeld's disdain for the American public's right to information, Cheney's associates profiting from the whole thing, the administration's willingness to wage war with no regard for the rest of the world and its willingness to lie to do so. I think there was a situation where PAD would have had the perfect punchline but this wasn't quite it. (On the other hand, Tina Fey falls flat sometimes too. I thought she went too far when she made a nasty spirited joke about Giuliani. It's not that I'm a particular fan of the man, but SNL had been kissing up to him for months before following 9/11 and it just seemed like a really gratuitous slap at a man who had worked with them creating this symbiotic relationship which made SNL and the mayor seem synonymous with NYC at such an important time...)
2 - I also disagree that "That's My Bush" was Bush as doofus sitcom dad. I think the show was a vicious satire of the vacuous nature of most TV sitcoms. I thought the show was hilarious because with a few changes of setting and character names, it could be any show re-run on the USA network. I think that's just how Stone and Parker work. "South Park" horrified people because the characters were children but the show isn't *really* about children and how they see the world, etc.
3 - I'm actually *not* surprised that more Americans would be offended by this joke than Europeans. I think that's pretty common. I got involved in a brawl on a newsgroup devoted to one of the TechTV personalities (Don't ask... but talk about a girl who looks hot in glasses...) and to me, it mainly involved all the idiots, everyone of them male, who rose to defend her honor as a woman. The only problem was, she had posted on the board herself and she never asked for their defense. She seemed quite capable of standing up for herself and taking a joke or taking a cheap comment for what it's worth. I think it's part of an unfortunately patronizing attitude that says, Well, my group can take it but those others need to be protected from those mean ol' words.
4 - This seems as good a time as any to ask, since this is related to the topic and comics, what everyone thinks of Marvel's decision to back off the Princess Di appearance in "X-Force"? Personally, I think it was a mistake, because just like the infamous decision with Rich Veitch's Swamp Thing and the Jesus story, if the idea was going to be spiked, it should have been spiked way earlier in the process, long before it was solicited. But besides the business side of the decision, I'm disappointed for other reasons as well. For one thing, she was never *this* person's princess and that's all I want to say about what I thought of her because I don't want to get off-topic and be accused of trolling. More to the point, my impression was that Milligan was attempting to poke fun at the hype and hysteria surrounding the woman, not the woman herself. (Like the Python's did with Jesus in "Life of Brian.") I just can't believe Marvel has such a big, Royal Family-loving constituency that it would have really hurt them. And really, how many times have we heard the crowd moan and groan about something being "over the line of common decency" and when has it ever knocked civilization to its knees? (Or hurt the people who produced the controversy? Isn't Fox still around? And Martin Scorcese? And Howard Stern?)
Or maybe I just *like* bad taste...
Peter, I must have seen a different report. The one I read said that American soldiers remain docked just outside the Sun's orbit while UN relief supplies on the sun itself are being looted by locals.
Is truth stranger than fiction? I thought so until I read about the new Bush flight-suited action figure that's being released by a Hong Kong toy company.
Or Fox News suing Al Franken's book publisher, because they claim to have trademarked the term 'fair and balanced.'
You can't make this stuff up.
personally, I thought it was funny, but I also agree that it is definetly a metter of perspective what is funny and what isn't. I once came across a bumper sitcker that read, "I oppose the death penalty, just look what happend to Jesus." I laughed. I read it as meaning '--after all, he CAME BACK!' but everyone i showed it too had the reaction of 'That's horrible!' *shrugs* I just dunno anymore.
Joe Nazzaro said -"Is truth stranger than fiction? I thought so until I read about the new Bush flight-suited action figure that's being released by a Hong Kong toy company."
I saw a political cartoon today where a father is giving one of these to his son, and the son replies something like : "Wow! And it comes with his complete 16 word vocabulary!"
Joe Nazzaro said-"Or Fox News suing Al Franken's book publisher, because they claim to have trademarked the term 'fair and balanced.' "
Fox 'News' is about as 'Fair and Balanced' as an Enron ledger book.
I cant wait to read Mr. Frankens book, and have already ordered it on Amazon.
As an addendum to my last comment, the CBS Evening News referred to American soldiers still moored outside Liberia while the port is being looted. Do you know what they're called? A Rapid Response Team!
Reminds me of the time that Dubya said he didn't know the French word for entrepreneur- like I said, you can't make this stuff up.
If anyone here took the time out to say anything other than "Ha, good joke." or "Didn't like it."; get a fucking life outside of internet message board wars. It was a joke.
From Elizabeth:
This is PAD's world, and we get to live in it because he chooses to keep it an open board. So maybe some respect would be appropriate. If you don't like PAD's opinions, why are you here?
So, because PAD has an open board, we all should be required to like and/or agree with everything he says? What would be the fun in that? And where is disagreement equal to disrespect?
I'm fairly sure Peter's ego is secure enough to tolerate some folks that might not agree with his opinion (unlike some other artist/writer that's been discussed recently).
"Reminds me of the time that Dubya said he didn't know the French word for entrepreneur
Posted by Joe Nazzaro "
Interesting. I wonder if he knows the German word for 'dummkopf'?
Reminds me of the time that Dubya said he didn't know the French word for entrepreneur
I seem to recall that rumor being thoroughly debunked. That it was a joke made by someone that got taken way too seriously.
Which, when you get down to it, is pretty darned relevant to this thread.
PAD
"Which, when you get down to it, is pretty darned relevant to this thread.
PAD"
Thats just what happens when you go too long inbetween BLOG entries...
Les européens n'étaient( ne sont toujours pas ) pas préparés à cette vague de chaleur, car cela fait plusieurs années que les été sont plutôt des pré-automnes.
Europeans were not ( and are not )prepared to this heatwave, because since many years, west-european summers looks like pre-autumn.
Malgré tout, je trouve cette blague drôle, je trouve que vous en faîtes beaucoup pour pas grand chose.
At leas, i found this joke funny, i think you make too much noise for nothing.
On the other hand, I find the French pretty damn funny.
Fox News may not be in itself fair and balanced. But neither is any of the other cable news networks.
Although I find it insulting (I don't know why; I don't work for Fox News) that this particular channel is singled out and equated with the contemporary epitome of corporate evil just because its slant is slighly right of center, as opposed to its counterparts' status as left-of-center.
I can't have any illusions that Fox News is fair and balanced but it does serve as a balancer for the whole notion of cable news. CNN and MSNBC are liberal institutions. They go from centrist to the left for the most part. A conservative new channel taps into a different audience but serves as a clear alternative to the normal stuff.
But then, just because it isn't 'middle-to-left' means it's awful, awful, not-news. Horse-hockey!
An alternatative POV that is this many degrees off the two standards is a good thing. It has almost always been agreed throughout the history of journalism that one is more likely to get the truth when there are more divergent interests in your sources.
Then again, Al Franken is your reference. To most conservatives he is described as "vile". To me he is a passable comedian, a fantastic SNL player and a worse than mediocre political commentator/intellectual.
Any announcements that one would buy his next book are announcements to me that that one is already pre-disposed against Fox News no matter what anyone says.
That said....
If we only posted here because we agreed with everything PAD said then we would be a horribly patronizing bunch and this blog would stone-cold boring!
The comments-thing was set up so PAD could read the many disperate viewpoints of his readership, not so he could skim paragraph after paragraph of butt-kissing.
I still don't think that joke is funny. I still don't find Tina Fey sexy. And I believe women in glasses... beneficial aesthetically.
CJA
*deepsigh* Let me clarify myself. Of course, dialogue is great. Disagreement is great - if it's respectful of both sides. I can disagree with PAD or the moderator on any board on which I belong. But I don't accuse the mods of "trolling" their own journals or stomp on a journal-owner's right to put their own opinions on the page.
I was seriously asking, if someone disagrees with all PAD's opinions and slams him for daring to say them, why come here? It's the same question I would ask a poster on my blog, if they hated everything I said and existed only to slam me: "Sorry it bothered you, why are you here again?"
Nuff said.
No one who comes to learn goes to observe what they already know.
If someone disagrees with Mr David's position, better they engage someone with an intellect like PAD's then some moron who shares a similar view.
If someone goes and hears/reads what he already knows then they aren't there to learn of the new or the other. They're there for different reasons. I come here for the other. I also come here because when PAD's not writing politics he can convince me of things. I can learn.
Hey, hey! Wait a minute! I LIKE PAD. I can only think of maybe one occasion when we've even come close to being uncivil to each other.
The truth of the matter is that I just don't agree with many, (umm)..much, (no)...most of PAD's liberal viewpoints. From the death penalty to global warming, to blowing up the sun (I'm agin it) we just disagree.
Our biggest debate comes to the Constitution, particularly the first two amendments. Because PAD's such an ABSOLUTIST on the Freedom of Speech part, but he seems willing to not only compromise the integrity of or throw out altogether the rights of the religious and gunowners, that sometimes he drives me absolutely freaking nutz!
That said, I am not only interested in what PAD thinks, does and says, I support his right to do so. That doesn't mean I think it's okay for PAD to go outside the bounds of good taste, which I think his joke did. And when he does, I not only think I have a right to tell him that I think he went too far, I think I have a obligation to let him know I think he did.
The point I want to make though is that I rarely post when Pad says something I agree with. (He doesn't do it all that often either) I figure he gets enough support from the brown-nose crowd without me adding my inflated two-cents worth.
On the other hand, if you're putting your opinions out there for people to comment on, you're going to open yourself up for a certain amount of the population that have nothing better to do than to give you a hard time.
Send troops to the sun? But how will they keep from burning up? Does Bush have a plan for that?
Questioning the existence of The Plan is treason, y'know.
Or maybe heresy. It's so dang hard to tell nowadays...
TWL
I just pulled my head out of the sand. What is this global warming thing all about?
Then again, maybe I'll just go stick my head back in the sand.
The French have just surrendered to the sun.
Darn, I was going to say the French can't even beat the heat, but yours is funnier.
Actually, it makes perfect sense to Bush to attack the sun. Texans have been against solar power for years.
EClark: to blowing up the sun (I'm agin it)
I, however, am completely for blowing up the sun! It's my new master plan to keep those Super-Fools away while I rob a bank!
The Blue Spider: I still don't find Tina Fey sexy.
Then you're a fool. A fool who won't be hitting on the same women as me, though, so you're a fool I can live with.
45 people? much more, i think...45 only in Spain. In my hometown, Seville, we reached 50º ...air conditioning is a must here....
Way much more. Latest estimates gives the french death toll as 13000 more than usual. The result of an unheard of heat wave, and very, very bad management in retirement homes and hospitals. But it's not that surprising. The Chicago heat wave of 1995 killed some 739 people. Take that number, and apply it to the population of France, and you get a death toll of more than 15,000.
82 % of the dead were older than 75. 50% of the deaths occured in overheated and understaffed retirement homes. The death rate had a rise of 32 % overall, compared to last year's august. 65 % increase in the Paris area, while other towns saw an increase of more than 100%. Not a laughing matter, and the government is in hot water right now (pun not intended).