Okay, folks: You've been asking me what I thought of various debuts. Below (with spoilers) find my thoughts on the season debuts of "Alias," "Smallville," "Angel" and "West Wing."
ALIAS: A masterstroke. The problem with a series like "Alias" that depends on shocking turns of events is that by the third season, the twists seem to be there purely to be twists without adding any actual drama. Not on "Alias." By jumping the series ahead two years and leaving its protagonist (and by extension the audience) playing catch-up, "Alias" maintains it's at-least-one-gasp-per-fifteen-minutes pace. The maneuver through which she got her dad out of jail was a bit pat for my taste (they sign a letter kicking him loose? Great. They then say they wrote it under duress and rip it up) but the end sequence with Syd watching the videotape of herself was breathtaking. Was it really her? Or was it a duplicate, since we know that capability exists (just ask her dead friend.) And has Sloane really joined the side of the angels? Did two years of chasing after the pieces of the Rimbaldi machine really only result in the punchline from the song "One Tin Soldier?" See? Even the lame stuff is open to second-guessing.
SMALLVILLE: Gotta tell ya, the story's not making tons of sense to me, and events in the series take us even further from the concept that this could possibly be the story of young Clark Kent who goes on to become Superman (not only would Lex Luthor recognize him, but now major crime players in Metropolis would be able to say, "Oh, yeah, Superman...used to work for me.") We're moving from the notion of guilty teen to the concept that Clark's either under the control of the voice of Zod--I'm sorry, Jor-El--or maybe the ring, or maybe he's just gone bonkers. On the other hand, Tom Welling is thriving on evil Clark, it was a kick to see Lex Luthor go completely Fight Club, and I'm still waiting for Chloe to start writing articles under the name "Lois Lane." And Rutger Hauer! My God, how can you not love a TV series that could give us *weekly* (or at least recurring) doses of Rutger Hauer?
ANGEL: Joss Whedon's season-opening episodes are generally among his weakest, but this was a happy exception. Eminently quotable dialogue and fascinating gray-area scenarios that's like taking "The Practice" and running it through the horror genre grinder. My personal jury is still out on Gunn's transformation into a lawyer. On the other hand, it was fun to see the old Cordelia reincarnated as Harmony: Much of her dialogue and all of her attitude could have been first season Cordy, right down to the turn-on-a-dime, "Oh, my poor friend, woe is me...oh well. Where were we?" And we're going to have to wait a week to see which leaked rumor is true: That Spike is now a human and the first male slayer to boot, or that Spike is non-corporeal, i.e., a ghost. Plot hole that bothered me: How did Wesley know Spike? They've never met. Plot hole that stopped bothering me: How the hell did they get the amulet from the bottom of the Sunnydale pit so they could mail it back to Angel? I realized that Willow could probably just wave her hand in some retrieval spell and the amulet would be in her hand. And thank God Angel got rid of that personal SWAT team: Any tactical group conducting a gunfight with a vampire during broad daylight that doesn't think to shoot out the windows so sunlight would come cascading in, severely handicapping Angel, deserves what they get.
WEST WING: The Republicans-Aren't-Automatically-Evil angle continues as the more politically-savvy Leo knows the GOP won't do anything stupid while the less-experienced staffers keep cooking up worst case scenarios garnered from Democratic paranoia (which doesn't mean the GOP *isn't* out to get them...) The rescue of Zoe Bartlett was almost anti-climactic. I mean, I didn't expect Bartlett to come swinging down on a rope from a helicopter, or Abby to stomp into a terrorist hideout armored in a power loader announcing, "Get away from her, you BITCH!" Instead it's an off-camera rescue by the FBI having something to do with a domestic dispute and dialing 911. I couldn't quite figure it out. Still, the show remains watchable, I'll be interested to see where they go from here, and the final sequence with Abby pointedly standing with her back to her husband on the TV rendered a powerful mute statement that the state of their matrimonial union has taken a serious hit.
Whew.
PAD
Posted by Peter David at October 2, 2003 12:10 AM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingI think that Mercy is going to be a major theme this year- or the effect of not showing mercy is. Mainly because when Angel told the comando that survived that that was the last bit of mercy shown, above him was the words "Know it- Use it!"
What I like about Joss is his use of history and little things. The visit to the doctor's office, which was used when they reattached what's his name's hand, the Be Quiet written on the chalk board, and Fred's love of the Dixie Chicks were all great.
Angel: I hadn't even really thought about those plot holes until you mentioned them. What am I coming to? Maybe it's a different amulet? I was telling someone the other day that it'd be funny if Angel and Spike (whatever he turns out to be) for some reason are stuck with each other and can't move more than, say, twenty feet away from each other. It's a law firm, it's a horror show, it's a wacky buddy comedy. They are going to have to come up with something that makes Spike not just go "Hi, thanks for the favor, I'm off to shag your ex." As for Wesley, I'm thinking his "Spike" was more of a "Ah, and this must be Spike." As for Gunn, the best line of the episode was the "He had the most unused potential of all of you," and not just because I'm down with Eve being around a *lot.* It's nice to see them realize they can do *anything* with him, and not just "fighting" and "black" and "boyfriend."
Smallville: I'm in total agreement with you on this. Superman, on top of everything else, is also super...normal. Like, a regular Joe, happy homelife, confident, all that jazz. How's he going to get past this, and how much will plastic surgery cost to take the giant scar off his chest. Yes, they don't need to, but still...I'm still hoping we see some of angry, evil, manipulated Chloe (or bringing her new friend Lois to Smallville for the weekend). It's funny, but it seems they are going for the Byrne clinical/anticeptic Krypton which was recently disavowed in the DCU. Seeing as how they gutted YJ/Titans because of a cartoon, would they do the same for a major TV show? Regardless, I'm thinking we'll be finding out that Smallville Red-K (as opposed to pre-crisis Red-K, or post-Crisis red-K or...) actually does have a long term negative effect, and that explains the episodes of pain and the like.
I don't watch the other two shows, but it's nice to know Alias is still clipping along. I was in, then I was out, then I was back in after the post-superbowl shake-up (one of the best promos *ever*), and then out again.
The anti-climactic feel of West Wing's opener bothered me until I realized that I was waiting for melodrama, and in reality, I didn't want melodrama from this show and I never have. The true climax was exactly where it should have been, with everyone wondering what the hell they would do now. And even if I had been upset, that incredible shot of Abby staring out the window would have cured me. Beautiful.
Angel's opener was so dead-on awesome. Dramatic, and I was still howling with laughter. Welcome back, Joss. I miss Lilah, though. Eve wants to be Lilah, and she isn't nearly as cool. That's really the only complaint I can come up with.
I thought SMALLVILLE was pretty good, though I was wondering why Clark wouldn't be wearing a mask or something when going to rip off Luthor's office. You wouldn't think a pair of glasses would fool the cops after all that, but who knows? As long as Jeph Loeb is lending a helping hand to the show, I have faith that they know what they're doing.
ANGEL was fantastic. It was just so funny, like when Angel wanted a cup of coffee (or blood) and hit the button for Ritual Sacrifices instead.
The Gunn thing was a bit odd. Reminded me of the first MATRIX when Neo was learning the kung fu. Gunn was jacked in and they were uploading data into his brain.
And I just assumed that it would be explained later how the amulet ended up in an envelope and sent to Angel. I mean, how would anyone in the Scooby Gang know to send it to Angel at his new law firm anyway?
Anyone watch the first episode of KAREN SISCO on ABC? I love the movie OUT OF SIGHT (one of Soderbergh and Clooney's finest), so I was a little apprehensive about spinning off J-Lo (back when she had a promising acting career ahead of her)'s character into a weekly series. I was afraid the style and rhythm of Soderbergh's film and Elmore Leonard's characters would be lost in the translation to television. I'm glad to say my fears were laid to rest, at least for the first episode.
It felt like a Soderbergh piece. It sounded like a Leonard novel. The actors hit their marks with the right cadences, especially Robert Forster as Sisco's dad. This was a great, great character in the movie, played by Dennis Farina, and Forster just seems to have channeled Farina's performance perfectly.
All in all, it was a decent show, even though this first episode's plot followed the original story's pretty closely: pretty U.S. Marshall falls for a bank robber, ends up shooting him at the end. They even gave the bank robber (Patrick Dempsey) a black partner like Clooney's Jack Foley had in the movie (played by the incredible Ving Rhames; no idea who the guy in the show was).
Wow...this was a long post and it wasn't even about baseball this time. Red Sox up 4 to 3 in the bottom of the 9th with 1 out. ;)
Wesley knowing Spike really isn't that big a surprise--he IS a former Watcher after all, who was assigned to Sunnydale for a time.
He did extensive research on Angel before he ever came to Sunnydale (which would logically include his former partner Spike) and probably researched Spike as well.
My thoughts...
ALIAS: While not losing a step in the action, suspense, and drama depts.; personally I'm not buying the whole lost 2 years bit to begin with. I feel that by the (mid?) season cliffhanger, Sydney is going to wake up and discover herself trapped next to or inside the assembled Rimbaldi.
SMALLVILLE: Willing to wait and see how things turn out, since TV continuity is far different than comic book 'canon'. But while everyone is waiting for Lois Lane to somehow arrive on the scene, what happened to the young Bruce Wayne guest appearance that was supposed to be at the end of season one?
ANGEL: With only one series to concentrate on now, hopefully Whedon will give it his full attention. Sarah Michelle Gellar is supposed to be in negotionation for a visit as Buffy either during the February sweeps or the season finale in 2004. Personally, I'm still hoping for a guest appearance for Willow sometime during the season.
But isn't Wolfram and Hart supposed to be bigger than just the Los Angeles branch? Can anyone smell a corporate takeover attempt looming in Angel's future?
After seeing all the twists and turns in Alias if they revealed the character of Sydney Bristow was really a schizophrenic who had invented a secret agent life for herself I might like it more. But as a watchable drama it gets harder and harder to care. Really it feels like the writers enjoy screwing with the audience a little too much.
I go through periods where I like the show and then I give up. Another few weeks and I may give up again. That is until they have another sweeps period where everything we know is wrong and here are the real facts.
In some ways Alias is a reverse X-files. Chris Carter and crew tended to string things along. They seemed to want to stretch the story to the limit. By the time it broke no one cared. But Alias reveals a lot. Then messes around with it and alters the whole scenario. Which can be good. No sense being stuck in a rut. But too much and it feels like change for the sake of change.
As a final note I have to vote Alias as having the best music on tv right now. They always have a nice little evocative number going for the big moments. Great stuff.
Plot hole that bothered me: How did Wesley know Spike? They've never met.
Well, in "Dear Boy" (Episode 5 of Season 2) Angel did say he could scent that Wesley had had sex with a bleach blonde the previous night.
*coughs*
Well, in "Dear Boy" (Episode 5 of Season 2) Angel did say he could scent that Wesley had had sex with a bleach blonde the previous night.
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
I thought Smallville continued to be a great show, with that unexpected jolt thrown at you which reminded me of the best years of Buffy. I'm talking about Lex's "Friend" (won't spoil it) scenario. Although Jonathan's gift was a tad comic booky for such an intelligent show.
I enjoyed Angel a lot too, even though the upheaval in cast and direction did cause me concern. As was the fact we had "Hi Angel, vampire with a soul on a mission to do good" type character bios every second to catch up the new viewers I'm sure WB hopes Superman will give Angel.
Melody was a nice addition.
And the Wes recognizing Spike thing should be waited on: he said "Spike" after Angel did, so it could be like a blind date where you say "Amy" to a tall redhead because that is the description all your friends gave you.
The only thing that did irk me, and maybe this was discussed before but I haven't seen much Angel news here in recent months, is the sudden disappearance of Laila (Wes' beheaded gf). She was the "laison" last season and this season she's just gone and replaced by Mysterious Blonde Babe #5 (TM) out of nowhere. And "Eve"--gack! Trot out a more overused gimmick name Joss.
All in all, Wednesday might be the best night of tv on tv though.
Later-Chris
But as a watchable drama it gets harder and harder to care. Really it feels like the writers enjoy screwing with the audience a little too much.
As a writer, I can assure you that it is impossible to enjoy screwing with the audience a little too much.
PAD
Mainly because when Angel told the comando that survived that that was the last bit of mercy shown, above him was the words "Know it- Use it!"
Actually, that sign in its entirety was "Respect - Learn it - Know it - Use it!" So, y'know, there you go.
Did anyone else find it odd that Corbin Fries was a monstrous creature who was willing to infect his own son with a virus capable of killing every living being in California...yet he knows enough not to let the kid read Punisher?
It's funny, but it seems they are going for the Byrne clinical/anticeptic Krypton which was recently disavowed in the DCU.
No, the Antiseptic Krypton is still the real Krypton. The Phantom Zone Krypton turned out to be created by Erradicator during his bout with insanity after he was attacked by B13. With the Erradicator's main memory core damaged it made the Phantom Zone Krypton with the next best thing... Jor'el's dream recorder. The Phantom Zone Krypton shows no signs of blowing up anytime soon.
I don't know if Spike is going to be a ghost, slayer or vampire but in the opening credits he did have the fangs and bumpy forehead.
Did anyone else find it odd that Corbin Fries was a monstrous creature who was willing to infect his own son with a virus capable of killing every living being in California...yet he knows enough not to let the kid read Punisher?
Being a criminal himself, he undoubted didn't want the kid to get any ideas.
Melody was a nice addition.
I presume you mean Harmony. Honest mistake.
I think the amulet thing is going to be a mystery that permeates throughout the season. I personally don't think any of the Scooby Gang retrieved it, I think it was someone or something else. All in all though, great season premiere.
RE: Smallville. I have to agree with PAD that the story doesn't make much sense, which is disappointing given the show's mostly-excellent 2nd season last year.
What exactly is the "voice of Jor-El" supposed to be? A pre-recorded A.I.? A spirit? And I thought Jor-El was accessed through the Kal-El's ship...now Johnathan can reach him through a Kryptonian symbol on a cave wall?
Angel: Great dialogue! I'm with you on the "Why didn't they shoot out the windows?" thing. I'm not so sure I like Harmony being there very much. She could get old pretty quick and she's already been given a chance at redemption and failed.
As far as Spike: Check out wb.com and the next episode teaser. He's a ghost. :/
Smallville:
Forget the superman mythos for once and admit that even though Smallville is branching off in a bizarre direction, it's good stuff! I'm starting to think Jor'El isn't the baddie we are expected to believe he is. He was "testing" Clark and I get the feeling that his son failed miserably.
Didn't see ANGEL or SMALLEVILLE yet, but the tape's in the VCR...
ALIAS was... mixed. Sure, it'll be interesting to see what happened to Syd over the past two years. Then again, has so much time, effort, and blood been spent on the Rimbaldi artifacts simply for the word "Peace"? (Maybe there's an advanced Rimbaldi Device that delivers the message "Be nice.")
THE WEST WING was an interesting diversion, as we got a brief glimpse of what their ideal Republicans are like. That said, let's see if the show can get away from the aerial zooming shots and back to the snappy patter. As for Zooey's rescue, that felt very realistic: With the President's daughter held hostage, there would be no way the various agencies (FBI, Secret Service) would allow the President, or any member of his family, in any sort of non-secure area. It makes sense that he'd be the last person on the scene (to make sure everything's safe) instead of the first one there.
BTW, I am really getting sick of ENTERPRISE this season. While the early ratings may not have been great, they literally had a whole universe to use in the stories. Instead, they've turned it into a futuristic "24" where Archer and his crew have to stop the terrori-- I'm sorry, the Xindi -- from unleashing their devastating weapon in an unprovoked attack on the United Sta-- I', sorry, on Earth. Scott Bakula's role has been reduced to acting pissed off, and if it's such an important mission why aren't there any more ships with them? Plus even a pervert like myself feels like they're using T'Pal for far too much gratituous t&a. (Apparently her new uniform diesn't include a bra. And Vulcan sleep methods revolve around foreplay!) This show could be so much more...
Am I the only one hating Angels new hair? He looks like he's going for a buffont for God's sake.
On the flipside, they work for a law firm with evil demons as the senior partners. How do you know one of them didn't just snap their fingers and have Spike's amulet appear in that envelope on Angel's desk?
They know SPike and Angel hate each other. What better way to screw angel up than throwing Buffy's latest love under his nose?
SMALLVILLE:
OK, Lex will later recognize Superman in this universe. It's not that big a deal -- and it sort of makes Lex a tad brighter. Besides, this Lex is not like the Luthor of the movies or the cartoon or the ABC TV show. He might wind up evil, but I doubt he would harm Clark Kent's family. It's possible that he will even want his surrogate brother to join him in his quest for world domination and will be hurt when Superman refuses (this was hinted at in a previous episode).
The scar is a non-issue (it will heal). As is Clark in Metropolis. They have him going by the name "Kal," after all. And so what if Morgan Edge thinks that Superman once worked him? How many times has Superman gotten amnesia and joined the mob? (Well, in the Silver Age, of course...)
Angel:
Spoilers:
What I really liked, though, was the continuing intrigue at the House of Luthor. Helen now apparently revealed as a black widow, leaves the Kents with some real proplems given what she knows about Clark. I saw the truth about "Louis" coming a mile away, from moment the word malaria was mentioned and the "LL" necklace was a dead give away. Lex's descent into darkness contiues to be the best part of this entire series.
A few things that did bother me: 1) the Kents losing the farm. Didn't Jonathan mention last season that the family had finally resolved their financial problems? I'm betting Jonathan will finally have to swallow his pride and allow Lex to help them buy it back. 2) Evil Clark's carelessness. Smashing ATMs without gloves or a mask (they have cameras) was one thing. I found myself counting the number places in Lionel's office Clark left his fingerprints. At least he wore a mask for the bankrobbery. 3) Tying in with #2, how is Clark going to deal with his crimes? Someone from Metropolis will definitely recognize "Kal" as either Clark or Superman.
Last night's opening episode was the first-ever Angel episode I've seen. (I was a strict Buffy fan.)It was surprisingly enjoyable and I think I will continue to watch it throughout its season. Though it made me miss Buffy and the scooby gang even more, especially with "blondie bear"s apperance. :(
Angel - I've been assuming that the "Who mailed Spike to Angel" thing will either be a running mystery or resolved next episode. Had Willow done it, why would she have sent Spike to Angel and not just let him out? I think either The Powers That Be have sent Spike to him as a reminder of some sort (since he's lost all of his other contacts with them, and he's hanging out with mass evil) or something else is up with that, but I don't think Joss is going to leave it hanging.
Oh and "step" thanks for the spoiler. I was looking forward to learning that in episode.
WEST WING: Bored now. Sorry, folks--but the show's lost it's layers. If I want to watch e.r.--or any of the other inumerable halfway decent hour long dramas on t.v.--I'll do so. The old regime would have knocked those last 10 minutes out of the park, not through melodrama, but through carefully layered dialouge, inventive yet subtle visuals, and pure eloquence. The new regime gave us a resuce that no one I've spoken to was able to follow, and a "speech" that was as boilerplate as they come. (Thus proving again that someone's stolen Will's brain: last week he asked a question--"Why two speeches?"-that he absolutely would not have needed to ask, this week he worked up a speech that used not one, but two painfully cliched Biblical passages. That ain't Will, folks.--and this ain't West Wing anymore, either.
....which is good, because ANGEL just got interesting again, if only in the way that train wrecks can be interesting. Whereas WW now suffers from too few layers, ANGEL may well start to suffer from too many--I'm just not sure how long they can sustain the moral ambiguity, dark comedy, and adventure elements in this new mix. But it will be worth watching to see how it goes for a while. I'm increasingly annoyed by the idea of Spike-as-Spike on the show, and that's only from the previews of next week. :-) I really wish they'd gone the route of having Marsters come on as a fully human William, sinceSpike's already been given at least three good exits as a character. (Buffy Season 3, Buffy Season 4-Angel Season 1, and Buffy Season 7.)
James Lynch writes:
BTW, I am really getting sick of ENTERPRISE this season. While the early ratings may not have been great, they literally had a whole universe to use in the stories. Instead, they've turned it into a futuristic "24" where Archer and his crew have to stop the terrori-- I'm sorry, the Xindi -- from unleashing their devastating weapon in an unprovoked attack on the United Sta-- I', sorry, on Earth. Scott Bakula's role has been reduced to acting pissed off, and if it's such an important mission why aren't there any more ships with them?
Well, at this point in the history, isn't Enterprise the only Warp-5 capable ship Earth's got? I imagine, though, that a few more are getting built, so we'll probably see a few more (if we're watching...) before too too long.
I do agree that Enterprise is lacking some ineffable something: passion, direction, focus...something like that. And though I don't hang around Star Trek/Star Wars fandom as much as perhaps I once did, I'm a little surprised not to hear more comparisons drawn between this Xindi plot and Star Wars. Something about these Xindi enclaves--live actors and CGI-characters interacting in dark cavernous halls discussing weapons to destroy a planet--reminds me very much of Dooku's council in Episode II, where the Death Star plans were seen. Ah well, I'm sure the similarities are minor and coincidental.
(And did those scaly lizard-Xindi from last night remind anyone of General "You Don't Have to Be a Good Actor to Recognize a Bad One" Sarris from Galaxy Quest?)
Angel: A very strong opener. Whedon clearly spent the summer thinking about where to take this new premise, although I'm not sure how long they can sustain this "we're in business to undermine our own clients" angle before the firm starts to lose business.
The temptations of the firm were nicely balanced with the employees continued callous disregard for life. I loved Angel's reaction to the motorpool and Loren's picking out carpet swatches. It's going to be really easy for them think about letting "just this one bad guy" go.
One question though: The Beast killed off the old firm, even, according to Lilah, "those that had called in sick" that day, so where did all of these new employees come from and why do they have memories of the firm's history and "tradition?"
It was nice to see Fred discover that she has spine for once and I think Gunn's transformation into "superlawyer" is an interesting twist. Did anyone else think that statement of him having the most untapped potential was an offhand admission of how grossly underutilized he was last year?
Eve needs work, though. She's so much like Lilah right now that there's no reason why her role shouldn't have been Lilah's. Harmony is perfect for comedy relief. I thought that Cordy's departure would leave a serious void, but the new cast does work without her.
As for Spike, the opening credits showed him in vampire makeup, so it looks like he's coming back the same as he was before, maybe still having a soul but without Angel's curse, rumors of him becoming a male slayer or ghost notwithstanding.
My personal theory is that he's being sent back as Angel's new link to the Powers That Be, assuming that Whedon hasn't abandoned that concept all together given how little mention the PTB received last season.
My other theory, which is fueled by Eve's statement about things being more complicated than they seem, is that it'll be revealed that the PTB and the Senior Partners are one and the same.
Angel Season One had Spike coming to LA after the Gem of Amara. Wesley never saw/met Spike during that, did he? Damn, now I have to break out the DVDs and watch them all again.
Me, I'm just thrilled that Alias is back. It was a long wait since May. I thought it was an okay premiere, and I am anxious to see what twists lie in store. If its one thing this show has proven, its that it cannot always be predicted. And I dont believe for a minute that Sloan is suddenly on the side of the angels. He is way too sneaky a guy. I am sure he is up to something, its just a question of what.
And am I the only one who thinks that the thought of Marshall as a father is hysterical?
ANGEL, some speculation:
1. Eve, the overly friendly W&H liason? Anybody feeling really suspcious about how much she reminds you of the little girl/god in the White Room?
2. I was a little worried about the return of Harmony, but Mercedes McNabb just makes me giggle everytime she's on screen. Really, she's the much-needed lightener for the show.
3. Necro-treated glass? Wolfram & Hart - always thinking of the little details. I'm just wondering if all the cars have the same detail. Kudos to Joss for that touch.
4. Starting the count down to the first time Harmony annoys Spike out his mind....NOW.
PAD: Re: Wesley knowing who Spike is. He is a former Watcher and I'm sure the exploits of Angelus & co. were required reading at the Watchers Academy (just like Kirk was required reading at Starfleet Academy).
Keep in mind that in the ep Dru sired Darla, the following ep Angel told Wes, Cordy, and Gunn who they were up against. While Wes never met Dru, he knew who she was.
Gunn as a lawyer has potential. When they cut btw. scenes, you know how you get flashes of scenes? Well, I saw a panther outline on Gunn (f/ the panther in the White Room f/ last season).
I agree that Joss is weak at opening eps and this one was no exception. I liked the opening act, but the acting seemed stilted in scenes.
Is it me or does Boreanaz seem to have put on some weight? And he also needs a haircut.
Other comments abt. Angel:
I am so NOT missing Connor. However, I'm wondering that if his friends don't remember him, I'm they're wondering who Jasmine's dad is.
I am missing Cordy. I do hope she returns. Gosh, only Boreanaz is the last of the original cast. Charisma Carpenter's gone and Glenn Quinn is deceased...
Wouldn't it be kewl if the voice from Clark's rocket DID turn out to be from ZOD, who tampered with it before it left Krypton? Why else would "Jor El" want his son to conquer Earth? A worthy future season ender: Zod appears pretending to be Jor-El and looking for Clark to see if his mind-f@%k on him worked.
-WoS
Angel Season One had Spike coming to LA after the Gem of Amara. Wesley never saw/met Spike during that, did he? Damn, now I have to break out the DVDs and watch them all again.
Nope. That episode was way before Wesley showed up.
-Joe (who loved the Spike lines in that one)
Is it me or does Boreanaz seem to have put on some weight?
I think you're right. His face does look a little heavier.
Regarding Angel, here's one of those things that only car guys notice: When Angel goes down to the garage to select a ride from his new fleet (and I kinda hope we haven't seen the last of his good old triple-black '67 GTX ragtop), he passes up the first-generation Camaro SS, the early Mustang fastback, the black Viper and a couple of other sweet rides and selects the yellow '70 Dodge Coronet with the funky black stripes that looks exactly like the one in the current Lee Jeans commercial with the action-cop-movie theme. I'm betting that's the only car in the scene that the show actually owns, and we'll never see him use any of the others.
And I figure the W&H folks have probably set Angel's personal fleet up with black glass so he can drive in the daylight...
Paul
Regarding Alias. They never showed the word "Peace". Sloan just said it was one word. Everyone just assumed it was "Peace". What if it was actually "Piece"? As in, one more piece is needed for the Rambaldi machine to do its thing.
Just a thought.
Ok, loved the Angel opener, had some issues with Smallville, never watched Alias and I'm disapointed with Enterprise. Ok, now I've got a question for anyone who has some serious Angel info: In a Entertainment Weekly article earlier in the year, it was mentioned that Angel season 2's storyline was thrown off track by Mutant Enemy's inability to get a guest star, resulting in the "Pylia" storyline. I'm assuming this guest was meant to be one of the founding partners (that Angel summarily dispatched as he manifested on this plane). Anyone have any idea who the guest was supposed to be?
Ali T. Kokmen wrote: (And did those scaly lizard-Xindi from last night remind anyone of General "You Don't Have to Be a Good Actor to Recognize a Bad One" Sarris from Galaxy Quest?)
Exactly. Maybe they should do a series based on Galaxy Quest. Or introduce a Boulder-Xindi race to Enterprise.
As to the Buffy-Angel-Spike amulet envelope...as soon as I saw the package, I cracked up imagining that somewhere way, way down in Hell, the amulet bonked a demon on the head. After cursing for awhile, it checked the back, wrote down the address, and grumblingly went looking for the nearest post office.
Of course, if W&H had invested in a War Amps key chain address tag for the amulet, the envelope would have been optional.
Cheers, Jon
Let's see... I gave up on Alias a while back. West Wing never appealed to me though most of my friends kep trying to convince me it's worth it. Now Smallville, I was a big fan in the beginnning. Then we had season two and I started having issues. Now season three has hit and I am torn. The show is fine. I enjoy the hell out of it until I think "This is going to be Superman and Lex Luthor" and thn the wholething falls apart for me. Kind of like the Birthright series out now. It works ok until you realize what the "end" is supposed to be.
But Angel? Angel was wonderful. Loved it! It's the first ep of the season which usually are weak only because they need to cover whatever time has elapsed, resolve any cliffhangers, explain missing cast members, set up existing characters and situations so (hopefully) new viewers can know what's going on and reminding old time viewers of the important stuff AND ahs to set up some of the themese for the season (for this type of show anyway). I think it did that and still had time for a fun story, great dialogue and exciting moments. Oh, and as for the "shoot out the windows bit", I just figured they were smart enough to know that at that time of day, direct sunlight would not be coming thru the widnows and would just be a waste of time to bother. Especially someone they KNOW is as quick and deadly as Angel(us). And that kick on the shotgun was great...disturbing since the guy is a human.. but great. I am anxious about this season. My big gripe is not Wes knowing Spike (watcher) or the Gun transformation (waiting to see where they go with it) but it was with the fact that they have been advertising Spike joining the cast and have been showing a lot of Spike scenes in the promos and he shows up at the last moment!?!?! Of course, the Blondie Bear bit was too damn funny! And I DO like the changes to the flashes. Before it was only flashbacks to previous scenes in taht ep but now features stff you haven' seen yet. The panther shape and Eve looking at the blood on th wall after Angel kills the wetworker. I need to watch it again just to see those in slomo.
Fun stuff!
Of course, as for Enterprise which someone else brought up... I can't fault the emphasis on T'Pol's physique nor the attempts to make it more exciting. I CAN fault it for adding rhythm to the theme song. I've been telling people to watch it just for that.
Have a good week!
While I'm not so sure Angel and his crew were required reading for Watchers (Giles didn't seem to know much about Spike until he did research in "School Hard"), I think the idea that Wesley was told by Angel around the time Darla was back or mayve he read up on him when he branched out on his own is right. Wes has become quite knowledgable since his goofy beginnings. For the record, Wes says "Spike" first but it sounded to me more like, "Could that be Spike?"
Halcyon,
Thanks for setting me straight about Wesley. Of course, I'm still going to break out the DVDs and watch them all again. LOL
Smallville was thrilling but I also fear that TPTB are playing a little too fast and furious with the obvious plot hole problems, especially in light of "Kals" actions now and their future ramifications.
Way, way too many people can draw the conclusion of Clark and Superman now -- so much for keeping his powers a secret.
Still, it will be interesting if TPTB will address these and other issues and the twist they will place on them -- if at all.
Let's just hope it's original and not a "Bobby Ewinglike - Dream Sequence or worse yet - A Star Trek "Klingon Ridges now and Ridge-less before situation."
In order:
ALIAS - Never been really a big fan of the show. Just couldn't get into it but I'm trying to because some people whose opinions I respect (including PAD) seem to think highly of the show. But this season opener... I was disappointed on two levels. First, reminds me of one of my favorite reviews of "Batman Returns", the one PAD wrote. He talked about the divergence the movie took into the subplot about the Penguin running for mayor which was then dropped so the story could return to the exact same spot in the first place. From my spotty history of watching the show, Sydney doesn't seem to be in much of a different place than she was "two years" ago. She's back to working at the same place with basically the same people. Her father was in prison but that was resolved by the end of the episode. Carl Lumbly's character (sorry, don't know his name) is now in charge but that seems largely cosmetic. So the only lasting changes are that Sloane is on the side of the angels (which takes us back, sorta, to the first season where he was sorta in the same place) and there's a wall between Sydney and Vaughn. And that just seems a contrivance for some angsty relationship soap.
Second was Syd's speech to Vaughn. What does she live in the Marvel Universe? They found a body, the DNA matched hers, she was gone for two years, and she says, "So, what, you just move on with your life?" Well, yeah, lady, unless you're Kenny or Bobby Ewing, you're corpse plus several years means you're dead. I'm sorry but I don't see the room for righteous indignation.
SMALLVILLE: Not bad. Tom Welling's Bad Clark is no Angelus. I think I prefer him in smaller doses. As for the question of why Zor-El would want his son to take over the world, I still think that Clark is going to learn that it was a mistranslation and he's supposed to be a leader *to* the people of earth (and inspiration) not a leader *of* the people of Earth.
ANGEL: Wesley knowing Spike. Any chance that Joss is setting up a flashback episode that would take place in Sunnydale and guest star the Scoobies? Too much to hope for I know, but, hey, when they did the spotlight on Anya they got Abraham Benrubi to reprise his role...
I thought there was some hilarious dialogue on the ep. ("I don't mind spanking men."
Angel's reaction to the cars.
"Harmony... *You're* my secretary."
"Hey! Personal assistant!"
"Give me one good reason why I shouldn't kill you."
"Secretary will be fine.")
Was I the only one who noticed how much they sexed up Amy Ackerman? So I'm wondering, is she filling the sexy girl part that Charisma Carpenter used to occupy? Is it because they just didn't want two (overtly) sexy girls on the show when CC was there? Or is Ackerman starting to get starlet syndrome and is no longer content not playing the glamour girl?
When is Lorne shooting his pilot for "Queer Eye of Newt for the Straight Vampyr"?
Am I the only one that won't be bothered if "Smallville" (and "Enterprise," for that matter, even tho I don't watch it) doesn't 'end' the way we think it should? I'm enjoying "Smallville" enough that if they end up going somewhere other than Clark eventually donning tights and a cape to fight crime, I'm cool with it.
The idea of 'the voice' really being Zod making good on his threat from the movie ("And one day, your heirs!") is one I've toyed with, too. I like it.
Remember the Buffy ep where she's being evaluated by the Watchers' Council? And the relative newbie female Watcher who interviewed Spike telling him that she'd written her thesis on him? Given that Spike's killed two Slayers and has been around for quite a while (and is one of the few vampires who has any tactical sense whatsoever), I'd sure include him in the basic Watcher Academy curriculea.
Favorite line from Angel: "Press 1 for goats or say 'goats'!".
One bit that no one's mentioned that potentially affects the whole Buffyverse. The Wolfram & Hart lawyer mentions that the LA District Attorney's office, not one necessarily known for greatness, has shamans. Who actively try to make juries tamperproof. Either a lot more people at lower levels in government (than knew about the Initiative) know about the supernatural, or there's a whole Harry Potteresque shadow magical government. Note that cops ala Kate did not seem to know about this.
Spike, as Angel did, became more important as "Buffy" progressed. Giles didn't recognize the name and had to do some digging to find out (despite Spike's having killed two Slayers). The line from the Watcher about having written a thesis about Spike rang false because of that.
Am I the only one hating Angels new hair? He looks like he's going for a buffont for God's sake.
Give him a break; he doesn't have a reflection.
Was I the only one who noticed how much they sexed up Amy Ackerman?
I suspect they are doing much what they did with Alyson Hannigan, to wit, Showing that geeky girls are sexy. I can't complain.
Enterprise spoiler...
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You think those scans the concubine gave the Xindi were human or do you think she gave them T'Pol's? I'm guessing T'Pols..
I thought ANGEL and ALIAS both started well, if not spectacularly. ANGEL's writing was sharper than its direction (though I liked the epic tracking shot at the beginning of the show), and I especially enjoyed "Blondie Bear?" and Angel's reaction to his new garage.
Where ALIAS is concerned, Sloane is _clearly_ B.S.ing about what the Rambaldi device revealed. Think about it: he's proven in the past that he's more than willing to sacrifice any short-term power he's accrued (like running SD-6) for long-term gain. I'm betting that sinister prophecy from the end of last season set Sloane up for world dictatorship, and that his new nice-guy image is just a means to that end.
I'm also wondering if "Il Dire," the grand Rambaldi device, didn't somehow reorder the flow of time and shunt Syd into some alternate universe.
Or perhaps it's a cloning device (remember, Sloane said he needed Jack Bristow for the device to work) and the Syd who woke up in that alley isn't the Syd we've all known for the past two years?
**When is Lorne shooting his pilot for "Queer Eye of Newt for the Straight Vampyr"?
Posted by Pack @ 10/02/2003 01:50 PM ET**
Oh man, I'd totally watch that! :-p
I suppose the other reason for not worrying too much about Wes and Spike having met would be the scads and scads of non-onscreen time during which someone could have talked about Spike, mused about Spike, complained about Spike, got an annoying spam email from Spike, ran into Spike's brother Snoopy...
Hey, wait a minute, Chekov wasn't on TOS when Khan appeared...oops, they explained that in the novelization of ST:WoK.
Take care, Jon
In response to Mark Kalet's question above, I've always heard that the guest star they couldn't get was Juliet Landau, aka, Drusilla. Although she did appear on a handfull of episodes, they weren't able to use her all the way through to the end of the season. They had originally intended to turn her into that season's big bad. Unfortunately, she had prior commitments, and she was relegated to a minor supporting role in the Darla story.
First, let's fix the font colour, huh?
>Regarding Angel, here's one of those things that only car guys notice: When Angel goes down to the garage to select a ride from his new fleet (and I kinda hope we haven't seen the last of his good old triple-black '67 GTX ragtop), he passes up the first-generation Camaro SS, the early Mustang fastback, the black Viper and a couple of other sweet rides and selects the yellow '70 Dodge Coronet with the funky black stripes that looks exactly like the one in the current Lee Jeans commercial with the action-cop-movie theme. I'm betting that's the only car in the scene that the show actually owns, and we'll never see him use any of the others.
Teeny-spoiler for 5.2 - after trying to get into the black Viper (you'll see why he doesn't), he starts driving away in the blue-grey one beside it, but we don't see him driving it outside.
> And I figure the W&H folks have probably set Angel's personal fleet up with black glass so he can drive in the daylight...
Actually - despite all the "necro-tempered" crap, does anyone ever remember glass-filtered sunlight being a problem for Buffyverse vamps before? I can think of plenty of occasions, running from Angel (Buffy 1.7) to Salvage where the light wasn't a problem while the glass was there.
I'm not sure of the canonical status of the buffy comics and novels (and I'm way too lazy to read them all again just to find out) but I'm sure that Wes and Spike met in a comic and a novel and some point.
Anyone with a better memory know about this?
So Spike is dead and intangible. Wasn't there some character on Buffy last year who could impersonate dead people albeit intangibly? Just a coincidence I'm sure.
In regards to Wesley knowing Spike, he was a Watcher and the Watcher's council likely had pictures or artists renderings of Spike. They were well aware of his existence and he and Dru caused them quite a bit of trouble in the '40s in one novel I read that was quite good by Christopher Golden.
I'm just curious if any Smallville devotees watched Angel for the first time (or vice-versa) and what did you think? Angel held on to most of the Smallville lead-in, so that's good. I'm hoping the two shows can bolster each other a bit--they seemed geared toward similar tastes.
You know, I noticed that about Amy Ackerman. There were a lot of shots of her legs in the episode.
Not that I'm complaining.
STAR TREK: I turned off Enterprise right after the opening - Paramount has serious worries if a diehard Trekkie like myself is doing this.
WEST WING: Pretty dry, but at least the "evil Republicans" weren't evil this week. If Sorkin had been writing it, the legislation would have been in the House and Senate within 12 hours of the Acting President assuming control. Much better balance on the political front, but the drama was weaker as well. I want to see that little French dude get the whipping from Jed that every father is entitled to!
ALIAS: Much more impressed with this year's season premiere than last year's. Last season, the show seemed to lose a great deal of the breakneck pace and momentum that the first season had, and I began to lose interest. We'll see where this one's going. Although, just like with ER, I'm a bit miffed that, after finally allowing the chemistry between Syd/Vaughn (or, with ER, Carter/Abby) to shine, the writers/producers feel almost obligated to break 'em up.
ENTERPRISE: (Or, as it's now officially called, Star Trek: Enterprise.) I continue to watch it out of inertia. I've not lost any sleep over missing huge chunks of the episodes while fixing dinner. It faced the very real possibility of me no longer watching, with the WB's rescheduling of Smallville, but since the hours of my wife's new job won't get her off of work until 7pm CST, I'll already be taping Smallville for her, so I'll watch Enterprise while I wait for her to get home. Oh...and I really don't care for the new arrangement of the theme.
WEST WING: This week, I thought was a little weaker than the premiere. It seemed almost like there was suddenly a hurry to resolve the Zoey kidnapping/Bartlet steps down storyline. I did get a kick out of Josh's new intern asking, "Do you guys always walk this fast?" during one of the trademark "walk & talk" scenes.
ANGEL: Loved it. Not much more to say. Some great lines, a lot of potential in the new direction. After I sat back and thought about it, Gunn's decision made a lot of sense, given how last season he mentioned several times that he felt outclassed by the rest of the group.
SMALLVILLE: Haven't watched the season premiere yet. It's taped, so we'll probably get to it tomorrow night.
Not to take a left turn, but why is "Enterprise" broken? I mean, I agree that it's broken, but it's not like they're doing two series at once anymore (remember the generalized lack of quality when DS9 and VOY were running full tilt at the same time)? So why aren't the people who have brought us so much great Trek in the past capable of taking the novel concept that is "Enterprise" and making her fly? It's a damn shame, and I just don't get it.
And while I'm here, let me plug my new favorite show, "Scrubs." There's some really smart, funny (and surprisingly good) stuff happening there every week... I think a lot of people are writing it off since it airs sammiched between the equally insipid "Friends" and "Will & Grace." I would think fans of PAD would really love this show. If John C. McGinley doesn't win an Emmy for Dr. Cox before the show ends its run, well, there's just something wrong with the world.
The OTHER John Byrne
Never watched Alias or West Wing. Just never got around to it. Smallville....ah i'm sorry I just don't get the appeal of this show. It's so ...bland and way too.... wholesome. And Clark and Lana are not just attractive, they are 'glamorous model' types. Even the Kents had to be slim and attractive.
Every talk with his parents has the "importantemotionaltalkwithparents!' feel to it with the teary eyes and sad music. Yet when he hears Martha miscarried, Clark's face barely even changed. It just takes itself so seriously every second of the times, it seems like "Parry of Five" with superpowers to me.
This whole "Jerk-Clark" is a weak Angelus rip-off and way too much of the Superman mythos is fragged up here. I never liked the notion that the 'S' symbol is Kryptonian. I also find it ridiculous that kryptonite would affect machinery now and yes, WHAT is the deal with Jor-El's voice? (Not 'Zor-El' btw) They make it seem like he's sitting behind a mike on another planet. They DO know he's dead right? Lex is the only character I find even remotely interesting. And if 'Chloe' DOES turn out to be Lois Lane I'm definitely out of here. I guess I'm 'too old-school for this sh*t'.
No offense to anyone. Tastes differ I guess.
'Angel' on the other hand was a delight. So much better written. Funny, sharp and fresh. Harmony, Spike, no Connor, great. And everyone's befuddlement at the new surroundings, especially Angel's. Loved it. And yes I too noticed Wes spotting Spike thought they never met. (And watch it again, he says it BEFORE Angel.) But he's been with the Scoobies, and part of Team Angel for years now, so I doubt he doesn't know who Spike is. And let's face it, the description only needed to include "white blond" and "leather duster". And Wes is a smart guy.
Really looking forward to next week and the rest of the season.
("If you want to sacrifice a relative press...." Bwahahaha)
BrakYeller: So why aren't the people who have brought us so much great Trek in the past capable of taking the novel concept that is "Enterprise" and making her fly? It's a damn shame, and I just don't get it.
Actually, I attribute DS9's success to Ira Behr and Rober Wolfe (sp?). Yes, Berman was an EP on there, but they were clearly focused on Voyager at the time. Behr and Wolfe are no longer in the fold, so we get the lackluster team that brought us the squandered potential of Voyager. I'm still burned that Berman had the gall to say in interviews that Enterprise would be totally different than what we've seen before, and they didn't want to just put another Captain in front of a veiwscreen. So instead they give us a Captain in front of a view screen and a trio of main characters that's the Captain, The Vulcan, and the Southerner. And when ratings flag we bring in the Borg and Ferrengi and Klingons.
We have *never* seen any of that before...
/bitter, bitter threadjack
//You know, I noticed that about Amy Ackerman. There were a lot of shots of her legs in the episode.//
And yet none of you noticed her name is Amy Acker. Though you're right, they did linger on her legs quite a bit. I guess she's going to be called upon to carry all the sex appeal now that CC's gone...
Angel: I think that W&H are more likely to have sent the amulet to Angel than one of the Scoobies. For what reason, I have no clue.
And I took the Wes knowing who Spike was as one of those things where Wes had been told about Spike before offscreen, like maybe sometime during his stay in Sunnydale during Season 3 of Buffy (especially since he was a Watcher then, and part of a Watcher's job is knowing who your baddies are), and so he just put two and two. together. Grr..arg!
Can't wait for episode 2! Spikey's back!!! Yay, I'm as excited as Harmony!
remember the generalized lack of quality when DS9 and VOY were running full tilt at the same time
Nope.
As I recall it, during the period both shows were airing, DS9 kicked into high gear and was just plain outstanding.
Meanwhile, Voyager continued to squander potential and ignore itself week in and week out.
Of course, when TNG ended and VOY began, the production staff of TNG moved over to DS9 and the original DS9 production staff - responsible for the, to me anyway, lackluster first seasons - shifted over to the (then) new show. So, that might have something to do with it.
Did anyone else notice that Ben Edlund is a Supervising Producer for ANGEL? Could account for some of the humor! (Or has he always been on the show?)
As for ENTERPRISE, given the gravity of the situation (a species with technology from the future that can decimate mammoth amounts of land), you'd think they'd toss everything they have towards stopping it. And even if the Federation doesn't have other warp-capable ships (did they say they'd have two ready at the start of season 3?), you'd think the Vulcans could be more helpful. Even if they're afraid of the madness that happens in there, they could offer at least one ship to help.
Anyway, it feels like exploiting the fear of terrorism, and ratcheting up the gratituous t&a, at the sense of adventure and the founding of the Federation. (Remember when Archer's decisions were foreshadowing of what the Federation would become? Now it's how far he'll break the rules to get more info.) Sad, just sad...
Even though Wesley never met Spike, I do think he would know who he is. Remember back in Buffy season five when the Watchers mentioned Spike? They were well aware of who he was. Considering he's killed two Slayers (I think the only vamp to ever do so), it would make sense that all Watchers (even ones who have since been fired) would know who he is.
And dude, I never thought about shooting out the windows. But in my defense, I would have just said "to hell with this" and walked out instead of trying to shoot him.
ANGEL: Quick note. The amulet belonged to Wolfram and Hart in the first place. Remember Lilah gave it to Angel to take to Buffy. I figure they are involved in its return. BTW, David Boreanaz has been gaining weight ever since he got married. Note Nicholas Brendon (Xander) also gained weight after he got married. Then again, who doesn't? Sigh.
I like Superman, Superboy, Clark, Kal-El. At least, I like what always knew. Now, in the "Smallville" season opener, the "Superman to be", teenager Clark Kent, is being portrayed as something he never was: A criminal. Such a past has never been a part of the young Superman's life. Therefore, I conclude that this series is entirely happening in the "Twilight Zone", "Outer Limits" or another such realm. We are the privileged witnesses of an alternate universe which mirrors the characters we know and love in a way that we never imagined because they are NOT those same people and those events never happened. Having come to this conclusion, I can actually enjoy the show for what it is:"NON REALITY TV." WOW. For anyone who would dispute this, please read: Superman, "A man for all Seasons" by Jeph Loeb and artist Tim Sale. THIS is the true essense of young Superman (Clark) and should be a "must have" book for anyone. It's a winner.
The intern asking Josh if they always walked that fast and then falling on his face was a great way of showing us that the new writers know they can't match Sorkin's skill on such scenes.
Wasn't the opening of Angel sort of spoof of the opening of season 1? The action was over the top but the comment to the vamp seemed to be the same. Or maybe I'm suffering from deja voodoo. At first I thought it was going to turn out to be a TV ad for the "new" Wolfram and Hart.
Well, the thought crossed my mind about how the first show of every season is just a warm up until the things rev up to speed from over the summer....what if this was no different?
Maybe this was a "slow" episode and things only get better from here?
two things pop into my head about the amulet...
#1 I kinda assumed that Buffy was just following up on her usual business of sending Angel powerful artifacts for him to use or keep safe....It's my guess that they didn't know that Spike was going to come out of the amulet or was anything else but vamp dust.
#2 maybe the amulet had some kind of mystic SASE thing going for it?
I'm sure wolfram and hart have ways of recovering lent items and the like.
Maybe it conjured itself into that envelope or drew/duped someone else into sending it back where it "belonged".
once back to it's "owner" it released spike into W&H's "care".
I thought Harmony an annoying vampire and was glad she left.
HOWEVER, she seemed to fit in this episode. I hope she sticks around as a guest star but doesn't get overplayed.
I liked almost everything in the show and sadly I hardly missed Cordelia.
I liked the new intro and cheered when they did spike's intro, Harmony was a nice surprise because I either missed her name in the credits or maybe it wasn't there....
Speaking of the credits, I had noticed the name of ben edlund before in the credits but I was never sure whether it was THE Ben Edlund or just someone else with the same name.
Holy cow, if you guys don't write a lot of responses!
Of course, I only noticed because I read them all.
Geez. (pseudo-spoilers follow)
Well, I had a pretty open mind about ANGEL's first episode this season; mostly I just wanted to see what they could do with what they'd done and not presume anything.
That worked pretty well; I thought it was really fun and funny and yadda yadda scooby-dooby-doo. Gunn's twist was interesting, Fred's manic episodes and love/hate thing with her co-workers, Lorn's all in and over and about it (but that's Lorn), and Angel seemed thrown off-balance and conflicted at first but seems to be sparking some kind of plan on how he wants to, you know, do... something.
Oh, yeah, and I agree with the whole Harmony-was-annoying-on-Buffy-but-so far-an-interesting-touch-here comment.
Everything's still kinda up for grabs; nothing really disappointed me. I just want to see where it's going... Oh, and damned if this isn't an example of how "open-minded" I was about this episode: I was excited to see spike in the credits and then *poof* I let myself get so caught up in what was going down that I was surprised to see him at the end. : P
Yes, I'm a psycho.
...and SPIKE doesn't deserve a capital letter, i guess.
Did anyone else notice that the mob boss's son was not allowed to read the Punisher. Just curious if he was not allowed due to violence or the target of said violence (mobsters/mafia types). Maybe I'm reading too much into it, or it was a cool little side joke by Whedon
Question:
On Smallville - does Clark remember what he does while under the influence of red k?
Observation:
Boy, was I wrong about how they would bring Spike back on Angel ---
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A ghost??!!!?? Feeeh!
The only one of the four shows that I saw was West Wing, but I don't seem to be as disappointed with it as many of the folks who saw it. (Gretchen, however, complains that if the lighting gets any worse, she's going to be unable to follow it at all.)
I'm not surprised that we didn't get as much snappy patter in talking and walking in these two episodes as was normal before. Given the situation, snappy patter wasn't really called for. Let's see what happens when the White House is no longer the absolute emotional mess that it was for the first two weeks of the season.
If you complain that Will's speech was uninspired, consider that we heard far more of it than we heard of most of Bartlet's speeches -- at least in the two seasons that I've seen so far. It's easier to come up with a few grabber lines and fade out than it is to write a longer coherent piece. And I'm starting to suspect -- based more on intuition than anything else -- that one of Will's functions on the show is to teach Toby how to be just optimistic enough that his ex-wife might take him back.
I understood the rescue scene and why it was played the way it was. You can't show the actual rescue, because it will give too many clues as to whether Zoey survived. (I'm convinced that her death would have been ratings poison, so I was pretty sure she'd live through the process, but might be badly injured.) The discussion between Leo and the agent on the scene described pretty accurately what had happened. (It also described it in the brisk snappy patter that folks are complaining about the absence of.) So let's roll it back (from memory):
The FBI office got a tip from someone who thought they had info on the kidnapping. The Feds scouted the location and decided to go in. There were three kidnappers, one of whom was asleep. They went in with "flashbangs", weapons that are designed to disorient and stun the victim but not kill outright. I'm not clear on whether there were any survivors among the kidnappers, but I don't think so, although the fellow who was asleep may have survived. Zoey was tucked in a closet and had been beaten, but not sexually molested.
That's on one viewing without rolling the video tape back -- and I've got to say that I've had to do that in the past for some of Sorkin's dialogue to figure out what's going on, so...
I don't recall a reference to Zoey's cellphone, but I may have missed it. And as I said, I didn't roll the tape back.
Bill Roper writes (about West Wing):
So let's roll it back (from memory):
The FBI office got a tip from someone who thought they had info on the kidnapping. The Feds scouted the location and decided to go in. There were three kidnappers, one of whom was asleep. They went in with "flashbangs", weapons that are designed to disorient and stun the victim but not kill outright. I'm not clear on whether there were any survivors among the kidnappers, but I don't think so, although the fellow who was asleep may have survived. Zoey was tucked in a closet and had been beaten, but not sexually molested.
That's on one viewing without rolling the video tape back -- and I've got to say that I've had to do that in the past for some of Sorkin's dialogue to figure out what's going on, so...
I don't recall a reference to Zoey's cellphone, but I may have missed it. And as I said, I didn't roll the tape back.
I also didn't rewatch the episode, but I do recall a reference to a cellphone, but not that it was necessarily Zoe's. The tip that the FBI reacted to, I think, was phoned in on a cellphone, but I don't recall if it was Zoe's, or some passerby's, or one of the kidnapper's, or whoever's.
I mentioned this on another thread here (so forgive me if I'm repetitive) but although one could certainly say that this episode's ending could have been better executed, I suspect that some of the ambiguity is on purpose.
In last season's finale, Nancy opined that the kidnapping didn't sound like the work of organized terrorists. Zoey was found locally--not tied to a chair in a cargo shack somewhere in the middle of Uganda (the nightmare scenario Bartlett told Zoey in an earlier episode.) Will asks whether they were ever able to find those missing terrorist sleepers (which might mean "Are those guys who did this still at large?" but also might mean "Were those guys even involved?") All of that might be purposeful ambiguity to get viewers to wonder things like, "Hey, what if they bombed people who, though bad guys, didn't have anything to do with this kidnapping?"
What exactly transpired might well get further explained in future episodes. But for right now, I can see how the situation's ambiguity might be by the creators' design.
Wouldn't it be kewl if the voice from Clark's rocket DID turn out to be from ZOD, who tampered with it before it left Krypton? Why else would "Jor El" want his son to conquer Earth? A worthy future season ender: Zod appears pretending to be Jor-El and looking for Clark to see if his mind-f@%k on him worked.
Can't be, although it would have made sense (and what I'm sure they were planning on doing). I read a while ago (in Wizard, I think) that the SMALLVILLE folks were given an edict to not use Zod because of some tie to the new Superman movie or somesuch garbage.
And, in regards to ALIAS: Marshall, a father? I'm sure there are more than a few hardcore computer geeks (and I know some of them) who have been thanking the good lord that it happened; if Marshall could get some nookie, what says they can't? ;-)
-eD
I really, really, really miss Cordelia. I've been watching Angel since the first episode and the show the other night just didn't seem right without her. A big mistake I think. Fred can't carry the lead actress alone, Eve is annoying and I like Harmony but she seems like a Cordy clone.
James Lynch says:
Did anyone else notice that Ben Edlund is a Supervising Producer for ANGEL? Could account for some of the humor! (Or has he always been on the show?)
Ben Edlund (and yes, it is THE Ben Edlund of THE TICK fame) came onto the ANGEL staff at midseason last year. He was on the FIREFLY staff and made the move over after that show was cancelled several years ahead of its time. He wrote one of the best episodes last season, "Sacrifice." His next episode as a writer will be the one coming up this week.
Oh, and incidentally, Edlund and Joss Whedon both did passes on the screenplay for TITAN A.E., so I assume that's how they met.
Hi. Longtime reader - of PAD, first via The Incredible Hulk - recent discoverer of this site (and relative internet rookie). And how cool it was to find that not only did Peter David have a fan interaction site - but that he talked about Buffy T.V.S. and Angel on it! And West Wing, too!
About West Wing - having a hard time looking at it without thinking about Sorkin's absence; but, trying to ignore second-guessing, it's been pretty well-done. A little more than midway through, I realized I was getting quite caught up in it. (And when the President, First Lady, etc. were flying in, the thought occurred - I hope this really is Zoey they've found. That would have been awful.) (You would assume they had enough photos of her to be sure, but it does seem like what was said is "They think they've found her.) The scenes with the intern were funny, especially in the hallway, and hopefully indicitive of the style to come. Like everyone else, I'm unclear who the FBI tipster was - how does a domestic distrurbance call lead to Zoey's kidnappers (was the caller the wife/girlfriend of one of the terrorists?)? - and I did think the President's speech might have been more profound, or at least eloquent, with Sorkin writing it, but .... All in all, a solid hour, and so far the series, while perhaps different and certainly at least somewhat lessened for the loss of its main (teleplay-wise, basically only) voice, it doesn't seem like it will go the way of Picket Fences - Good Lord, did that show fall apart after David E. Kelley left it.
And Angel ... I was ecstatic. Buffy the Vampire Slayer had become my favorite show, and Angel an ever-closer second. And once again, I thought Joss Whedon knocked it clear out of the park (so to speak, seasonally appropriately). A direction for every character (well, except Spike, but we'll give him a minute to acclimate to no longer burning to ash from the focused redeeming flames of his soul) - liked the little scene with Lorne screening the employees, actually getting to use his gifts again. (And his notepad is kind of funny, too, though you need to be able to pause it to read it.) And the humor - HA! Angel with the cars (which reminded me of the pilot ep, when, in a parking garage, he lept into the wrong car - a scene which David Boreanaz cited in a post-season four interview as the kind of humor he hoped the show would be getting back to in the coming year), Harmony at her best ... I'll doubtlessly miss some noteworthy moments, there were so many .... The opening sequence, of course, with the woman saying You did this for publicity? and Angel responding "No, I ... help the helpless ..." And that telephone system gave me the biggest laugh I've had all week.
As far as Wesley and Spike ... it bothered me that Giles had to look him up in the first place. Of course, in "Fool for Love", Buffy and Giles were lamenting the lack of detail regarding the deaths of former slayers. Maybe the Watcher's Council didn't feel like publicizing past "failures" and kind of swept this under the rug. It's certainly not like they were perfect (I know I wasn't the only one who felt like cheering when The First [through Caleb] blew them up. [Or was it Giles?:) Poor Anya.]).... But when Spike and Drusilla surfaced in Sunnydale, menacing the current Slayer, they became a prime topic at the Watchers Academy. (Current Events class?) If not in time for Wesley to be well-versed, this would at least give the young female Watcher time - three years after Buffy first met Spike - to have written her thesis on him. And Wesley's stint in Sunnydale and certainly with Angel - with his prior "family reunions"- would have given him some chance to be familiar with "William the Bloody". (Which, come to think, is what Faith-in-Buffy's body called him back in Buffy Season Four, so clearly Spike has come up even when he's not around.) Why did he recognize him on sight? (Okay, Faith didn't... her encounter wasn't in such a blatantly supernatural context, though, and it's unlikely she learned much about Spike through study - not big on the books, she's the first to say.) Well, besides his above-mentioned distinct appearance - maybe Wesley saw a photo of him, since we know now that vampires do show up on film:)(Oh geez - you don't suppose they saw "Buffy: Slayer of the Vampyr", do you?)
Yow, this ended up being a long post. Sorry. Anyway, thank you for the website, Peter/Mr.David/PAD (Should I call you "Mr. Peter David?" [old Saturday Night Live joke]); be reading you.
The thing that shocked me most about the Angel episode was the fact that Angel killed two human beings. We know from the episode "Darla" in Season 2 that Angel killed, and fed from, rapists and murderers for a time after he was ensouled while trying to get back in to Darla's good graces, but as far as I'm aware this episode was the first time we've ever seen an ensouled Angel deliberately kill humans.
No Whedonverse hero has killed a human being without it being a big deal and having ramifications that extended for a long time after from Willow and Warren, Faith and the Deputy Mayor, or Gunn and Fred's old Professor. Giles' killing of Ben was the only one I can remember that didn't evolve into a major plot point, and I always assumed that it would have if ASH hadn't chosen to leave the show as a full time actor.
Has Angel been corrupted so quickly? It was all done so glibly though that I got the feeling that it will never be mentioned or addressed.
That said I loved the episode.
I refuse to watch gorefests like "Angel," and "The West Wing" just reminds me that the fictional resident of the show's White House is so much better than the real one.
But Smallville...it's the only show I watch regularly in prime time. And although the plot twists are going into unusual places that are making hardcore comic book fans freak, it's a worthy trip for the rest of us.
And watching the opening credits with the conspicuous, welcome credit for Siegel and Schuster, I thought about another great comic book creator. I also thought of that man when I saw this show's version of Morgan Edge - I'm not sure, but wasn't he created by Jack Kirby for the "Jimmy Olson" comics he did for DC?
Anyway, Kirby came to mind, and I wondered. What if that isn't the voice of Jor-El or General Zod? What if it's...DARKSEID???
If so, I hope they have the decency to add Kirby's name to the credits somewhere.
Smallville:
I'm really diggin' the show and I'm not trying to be pesimistic, but for all those people wondering and worring what going to happen when Clark dons the cape, let's face it, the show's probuly not going to run that long anyway.
Just admit this is a complete "Elseworlds" and enjoy the show. Once I stopped worrying all the little things I thought it was a great season opener.
Where to start? lol....
Angel-You all keep mentioning how they're sexing up Fred but I find Mercedes McNab very sexy. I loved the dialogue,especially the phone thing Angel went thru. Did noone notice that at the opening, the lawyer had the rescued woman sign something concerning her eternal soul?
Smallville-Getting better and better. The only thing I hope is that Chloe doesn't have to cry all season this year. Oh and maybe it's not Zod or Darkseid. Maybe it's Braniac.
Enterprise-T'Pal is finally looking sexy and all, the plot is ok...but my favorite character is getting left behind. Hoshi!Though I still loved the episode with Merriwether's family.
Alias I've never liked since the first episode. She got all blubbery because the agency kills her boyfriend because she told him she's a spy? Shouldn't she know that's a possibility before she tells him? Melissa George may lure me into watching an episode or two.
West Wing-A local channel is now playing the first season in syndication and I watched the first two episodes last weekend. Not bad at all. I may watch more of the reruns.
My big question is:What does everyone(especially PAD since it's his site) think of the new shows coming on?Anyone enjoying any of them?
This is why fall is my favorite season :)
Michael Norton
Angel is a gore fest?
I'd like to get your impression on House of a thousand Corpses then :)
I don't see the attraction men find to Harmony. Of course I find stupid women to be a MAJOR turnoff. Maybe that's why I can't stand her. I don't care how good she looks. Probably why I never dug Cordy too much, but Willow...there's another story.
I agree with Angel killing humans. It seems weird that he's offing regular....well not regular regular, but you know what I mean.
What's all this about Fred being the one with all the sex appeal now that Cordy's gone? Didn't she already have it?
Let's see:
Smart and slightly crazy
vs.
Attractive, but dumb.
Anyone who'd choose the second... well, deserves what they get.
I always dug Willow more than Buffy or Cordelia. And smart-and-a-little-crazy wins over cute-but-dumb any day in my book.
Paul
Alias--loved it! This is such a GREAT series. I recently saw all Alias Season 1 on dvd & for the first time and loved it. Wow. What a series. I missed most of season 2, but I saw the last three, so I decided to go ahead and watch this season! Glad I did. The opener was brillant.
Smallville--Again, loved it. This is the best Smallville season opener yet, imo. I think this will prob be the best season yet (Season 3! IT fits. The 3rd season is usually where a sci-fi or fantasy show picks up)
Angel---Wow. What a change. It was good, not great. The set-up has a lot of potential for greatness though. Harmony was a blast, I like Eve already, not sure about Lawyer Gunn, liked Wes & etc, and the ending was cool. Can't wait till next week!
West Wing---First one was good. Second one was too. A bit let down by the whole rescue. They should have shown it on screen. Otherwise, good show.
Enterprise so far---Two good episodes (the first 2), and one episode I had a hard time even sitting through. Have not seen the episode this week. I like the show, but so far some of the 'new direction' reminds me a bit of Voyager. *sigh*
DF2506
S2 of Smallville was a real disappointment to me. Too many stupid continuity problems.
For example, Lex bought the plant three different ways. He put in 90% himself in cash, and got 10% from the plant's managers (Tempest), he got investors to foot 100% of the bill (Suspect), and he got a mortgage and used his personal assets as collateral (Prodigal). Now, completely aside from the fact that those three things are inconsistent, *and* that if Lex could make the plant profitable in about 6 months, he would know that one holds on to at least 50.1% of the shares in one's company, (a) the plant itself should have been collateral for the loan, and (b) one incorporates *to protect one's personal assets should the company go belly-up.*
This was just too stressful to watch, though I continued to follow the show through the eyes of my friends who still watched.
I have to say, on the topic of why Clark went "bad" this summer, that of course he had to. In DCU canon, Clark continually credits Superman's ability to give second, third, fourth, etc., chances to Jonathan. But SV!Jonathan's such a judgmental (expletive deleted), that the only way Clark could be willing to give felons the benefit of the doubt is because he's walked a mile in their shoes.
JMHO.
2 little notes (on Angel) - I'd assume sun through glass is a problem since Spike spraypainted the windows on his car, and why draw attention to yourself during a vulnerable period (day) for no reason?
And, all the discussion of whether Wes would know of Spike - you can't base what Wes as a Watcher would know on what Giles as a Watcher would know. Giles is older and the Council changed between his time and Wesleys. Also, Giles was ALWAYS out of the loop. He'd know little things, like Dru being attacked by a mob but not about Angel or Spike or many other baddies.
> The thing that shocked me most about the Angel episode was the fact that Angel killed two human beings. We know from the episode "Darla" in Season 2 that Angel killed, and fed from, rapists and murderers for a time after he was ensouled while trying to get back in to Darla's good graces, but as far as I'm aware this episode was the first time we've ever seen an ensouled Angel deliberately kill humans.
Well there was the flashback in "Orpheus," where he fed on the savable victim of a shooting. Then again, he spent 20 years in alleys feeding on rats after that...
He's killed human beings who were trying to kill him before. (For that matter, so has Buffy. She iced several of the Knights of Byzantium in season 5.) And he's left people on several occasions because they pissed him off. He just hasn't killed and fed off any humans.
PAD
Great opening episode of Angel. I find myself wanting to write down lines of dialogue when I watch this show!
Oh, and the intercom's Ritual Sacrifices line? Made me think I was back working at the IRS...
So is it just me or does anyone else think that Spike might actually be The First seeing that he's intangible and dead? It seems a hell of a lot more likely that Wolfram and Hart might have some type of interest in capturing or rescuing The First Evil than in assisting Angel in helping out his ex-girlfriend as a perk. W&H showed some interest in stopping Big Bads last year on Angel to maintain the status quo and in general self defense and they probably have the resources to retrieve the amulet from whatever demon dimension it was in. Plus, the First seemed to have some significant interest in messing with Angel's head when he originally showed up and I expect Spike (or "Spike") to be doing much of the same thing.
Angel-You all keep mentioning how they're sexing up Fred but I find Mercedes McNab very sexy. I loved the dialogue,especially the phone thing Angel went thru. Did noone notice that at the opening, the lawyer had the rescued woman sign something concerning her eternal soul?
I don't know if "all" are mentioning this. I know I did. Mercedes McNab is a lovely woman but what I meant was the way Amy Acker was dressed and in one scene, there was a shot that seemed to so gratuitously focus on her legs that it actually took me out of the story while I wondered, "What the hell was *that* all about...?"
It's not that Acker isn't attractive or shouldn't look good on the show but it doesn't match up with the character as we've seen her over the last few years. That's okay, people, like characters, change, I just though it was worth a comment.
To all those who bravely, nobly commented on how they prefered smart and cute to dumb and sexy, I promise that your wives, girlfriends, etc. are much more likely to give your pair back if you quit the Alan Alda-like lying and be men.
Last, a thought I had about Gunn after reading all the comments here: In retrospect, his transformation seems to be an obvious and necessary development for the series. Angel's gang took over a law firm. Anyone believe they could take over a hospital without any doctors or health care professionals in their ranks? Making Gunn a lawyer gives the gang an absolutely required in to the law firm they're controlling. (Although if this was a David E. Kelley show, it would have been revealed that Lorn had a law degree and was a member of the bar but had never told anyone...)
I just want to know what PAD thinks of the TARZAN premier.
And, of course, Angel tried to smother Wesley in S3. The fact that he failed wasn't due to any lack of trying.
re:
I just want to know what PAD thinks of the TARZAN premier.
Posted by ERBFan @ 10/07/2003 08:30 AM ET
I'll tell you what I thought :) --- I loved it. It's "Tarzan's New York Adventure" LOL. Seriously, tho' I really liked Tarzan's body language & fighting sytle -- very ape-like. This Jane is not as beautiful as I could hope for. In my opinion, you need someone of the Natalie Portman or Charisma Carpenter caliber for Jane. But, on the other hand, Mitch Pilleggi as Baddie Richard Clayton is a master(grey)stoke ;^) And (drumroll) Lucy Lawless back on TV! Joygasm!!! I can't wait for the next episode.