Captain America: Civil War

The most obvious statement to make is this: CIVIL WAR almost makes you feel sorry for BATMAN v. SUPERMAN. This is, quite simply, how you do a conflict between superheroes right. As opposed to having two individuals so similar in dark disposition that you cannot discern a difference between them, in CIVIL WAR the two main protagonists–Steve Rogers and Tony Stark–come at a situation looking at from two profoundly different directions, dictated by their opposing personalities and experiences. You can see both sides and find yourself sympathetic to both.

For comic book fans, aside from the basic underpinning of the government/United Nations wanting to take control of superhero endeavors, CIVIL WAR bears no resemblance to the comic book series. Instead it stems directly from the previous films as the Avengers are apparently being held responsible for the damage that has resulted from their activities. On the surface of it you find yourself wondering how the hëll they can be condemned for their actions during an alien invasion or their attempts to stop Hydra from killing millions of people; then again, you witness Hillary Clinton being grilled for eleven hours over terrorist attacks and suddenly it seems pretty much reflective of the world we’re living in.

Matters come to a head when the Winter Soldier is targeted and Captain America, already not on board for the UN accords, ends up defending his friend, and we wind up with the head-to-head that we’ve all seen in the trailers (although there is a FANTASTIC turn of events with one of the heroes during the face to face battle that no advertising has hinted at, and I’m not about to spoil it.) I know that it seemed when THE AVENGERS came out that it seemed as if all the previous Marvel films were building to it, but now it seems as if all the Marvel films were actually building to this: two sets of heroes going at it.

And oh my God, was Spider-Man great. Todd Holland evokes Tobey Maguire at his most vulnerable, and screw what the traditionalists say, I thought Marisa Tomei was fine as Aunt May. Hëll, it never really made any sense that the original May was as ancient as she was in the first place; Peter was a teenager. How many teens have senior citizens for aunts and uncles anyway?

The film was two and a half hours long and it felt as if it flew by. I was astounded when I discovered the running time at the end.

Go see it.

PAD

40 comments on “Captain America: Civil War

  1. If you mean “aunt” as in the specific relationship of mother’s sister – not many. However, if you mean “aunt” in the more broad “non-specific female person of indeterminate relationship which may or may not involve blood or friendship”, then Aunt May’s age is fairly irrelevant.

    I had “aunts” of a wide variety of ages, some related by blood, some by marriage, and some just good friends of the parents. Aunt May’s age was never an issue for me.

  2. I liked your comparison to Hillary Clinton — it reminded me of how Superman was blamed for everything in BvS. Not necessarily fair, but definitely realistic.

    On a whole, I’m still not sure how I feel about this movie. In both Civil War and BvS I felt like most of the fighting could have been avoided through one simple conversation. And in both movies, it’s very frustrating to have our heroes be unwilling to talk to each other for even a minute.

    One thing that’s bugging me now is Tony Stark’s hypocritical act of recruiting Spider-Man. Tony’s whole issue was how the Avengers need to be more responsible and be held accountable, etc., and yet here he is putting a child’s life in danger. Yeah, I know he’s Spider-Man and he can handle himself, but he’s still just a kid. (And yes, I liked Tom Holland much more than Andrew Garfield.)

  3. I liked your comparison to Hillary Clinton — it reminded me of Superman being blamed for everything in BvS. Not necessarily fair, but definitely realistic.

    I’m still not sure how I feel about this movie. In both Civil War and BvS, I felt like most of the fighting could have been avoided with a simple two-minute conversation. And in both movies, it’s very frustrating to see our heroes refuse to talk and listen to each other long enough to avoid conflict.

    I also feel like Civil War was the inevitable conclusion from Marvel’s inability to find people for their heroes to fight. In all the Marvel movies, most of the villains have been entirely forgettable. And you can only use endless armies of faceless aliens and robots so many times.

    One problem I’m dealing with right now is Tony Stark’s recruiting of Spider-Man. Doesn’t that seem hypocritical? Tony was arguing for more accountability and responsibility, and yet here he is putting a child’s life in danger. Yeah, I know Spider-Man can handle himself, but he’s still just a kid! If Tony got so broken up over one random civilian’s death, how can he justify this? (BTW, I liked Tom Holland a lot more than Andrew Garfield.)

  4. Having mentioned Jolly Jack, may i digress a bit* to recommend his rather-erratically-scheduled webcomic, Sequential Art?

    ====================

    * Ummm – sorry – wasn’t thinking when i typed that…

  5. Saw it last sunday (we got it a bit earlier in France), and loved every minute of it. I laughed a lot (the bi fight in the airport is a masterpiece), cried a bit (the funeral, and the ending, which I won’t spoil for you, but which is going to impact future movies, that’s for sure). Oh, and word of advice : stay until the end : there are two stingers, one in the middle of the end credits, and one at the end (and I won’t spoil them to you either). In short (and three words) : go see it !

  6. I think with Aunt May it’s more about a woman of Marisa Tomei’s age (Wikipedia says 51) in 2016 being different from a woman of the same age back in 1962.

    Thinking of actresses of about the same age in 1962 and how they looked at the time, such as Ellen Corby or Jeanette Nolan. They don’t look *that* much younger than Aunt May.

  7. I think that I know what the turnabout is; I saw it hinted at several weeks ago that one character (who shall remain nameless) switches sides. My spouse and & plan on seeing the movie over the weekend.

    1. Actually, that’s NOT the big surprise during the big fight that hasn’t been present in any advertising. No, the BIG surprise during the BIG fight is quite literally that . . . BIG!

      QUASI-SPOILER: Amusingly (or frustratingly), the surprise HAS been spoiled well in advance in merch. If you’re a collector of Marvel Legends action figures, the latest wave (based on Civil War) has completely given it away . . . .

      1. Yeah, the surprise I was expecting was there, but there was another that I should have seen coming. I had heard rumors of the BIG one though–and DC’s LEGENDS OF TOMORROW did something similar to beat Marvel to the punch.

    2. Actually, that’s NOT the big surprise during the big fight that hasn’t been present in any advertising. No, the BIG surprise during the BIG fight is quite literally that . . . BIG!

      QUASI-SPOILER: Amusingly (or frustratingly), the surprise HAS been spoiled well in advance in merch. If you’re a collector of Marvel Legends action figures, the latest wave (based on Civil War) has completely given it away . . . .

      1. Yeah, the surprise I was expecting was there, but there was another that I should have seen coming. I had heard rumors of the BIG one though–and DC’s LEGENDS OF TOMORROW did something similar to beat Marvel to the punch.

      2. I’d heard solid-seeming rumours a month before the film came out and this did not spoil it for me, it just made me look all the more forward to it. Yeah, not the ‘classic’, but I’ll take it anyway as he was pretty much my favourite Marvel character since the day he first appeared (yeah, I’m getting on in years.)

  8. I enjoyed it and thought it balanced all of the characters well, even better than Joss Whedon, which surprised me. I had a few minor issues:
    .
    The mind flashback device with which Tony was introduced, I thought that was a set-up to eventually use on Bucky to reveal/purge the bad programming out of his mind, which would backfire while revealing some greater villain in charge. So, the same device that showed Tony re-living his last time with his parents would be the same device used to help the person that killed them. But instead he goes into stasis.
    .
    Furthermore, in “Avengers: Age of Ultron,” didn’t Scarlet Witch also have the ability to go into people’s memories? An ability that was unused and unmentioned in this one–I wonder what it could have been like if she tried to use that power on Vision when he wouldn’t let her leave? Or in the battle at the airport? Again, if Bucky wanted to go into stasis because of unknown memories/programming, and they weren’t going to use Tony’s mind flashback device on him, then why not let Scarlet Witch try her memory powers on him?–Scarlet Witch, while afraid of her powers after Lagos, could see this as a way to redeem herself and do good with them.
    .
    Where was Nick Fury? I don’t keep up with “Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.,” but I thought Samuel L. Jackson’s character was still alive? Or officially dead but retired? Given his role in the MCU, “Winter Soldier” especially, I kept waiting for at least a mention of where he was (like how Hulk and Thor got mentions), or Tony/Cap speculating how Fury would have reacted to the Sokovia Accords.
    .
    Also, Zemo the villain, while well-acted, had the same motivation as the villain in “Iron Man 2.” Both wanted revenge for what had happened to their families by Stark/Avengers. We’ve already seen this.
    .
    While “Civil War” didn’t quite have a “This isn’t freedom; this is fear” moment of “Winter Soldier,” it was still an outstanding movie.

    1. 1) Sebastian Stan (Bucky) is signed up for several more movies. I think they’re dragging out the recovery period so they have more fodder for those future movies. That said, I think you have two excellent points: both Wanda and Tony’s device would be excellent ways to fix Bucky in the future, and I hope they at least call-back to these ideas when they finally get around to him.

      2) Yes, Nick is still alive. He and SHIELD in general are trying to keep a VERY low profile in the eyes of the world’s governments. Thus, he probably felt the need to sit this one out. With the world PO’d about the Avengers and their lack of oversight, bad idea for the guy who created the Avengers (not to mention the poster boy for lack of government oversight, who is ultimately responsible for failing to prevent HYDRA from eating SHIELD from within, causing the world’s present instability) to step into the spotlight.

      3) Yes, Whiplash was a revenge-driven psycho who wanted to destroy Stark. The difference is in the approach. Vanko got bulked up, armored up, went at Stark head-on, tried to fight him directly, and yes, made some half-baked comments about “oh, made God bleed, I won even if I lost, people are going to come tear you down,” but he really just wanted to fight and beat Stark himself, and utterly failed on BOTH counts. Zemo? Never even attempted to lay a hand on any of the Avengers, he out-thought them, outsmarted them, and ultimately caused a major rift that saw half the team STILL angry at the other half, one of them CRIPPLED, many of them fugitives from over 100 governments, at least two of them unable to go home to see their kids, like, EVER . . . Zemo WON.

      The only moment that really annoyed me, in story, was when General Ross was talking down to all of them about Hulk and Thor being missing and how “If I lost two 30 megaton nukes, I’d have to answer for it.” First of all, wasn’t Banner YOUR fault? Like, didn’t you push him in his experiments, and that’s when he tested on himself, and BAM, Hulk? And didn’t YOU lose him, OVER AND OVER, for years? And just kept on chasing him through unauthorized black-ops missions in foreign countries in which you had no jurisdiction, and did so with no regards for regs or restrictions? And you NEVER actually had to answer for it at all? I seem to recall watching that movie . . . . And second of all, regarding Thor? Not only is he NOT misplaced, we know exactly where he went thank you very much, but none of us have any authority over him, he’s a “foreign” national, and royalty at that, so he’d likely be covered by the same rules that protect T’Challa, diplomatic immunity and so on, so the Sokovia Accords wouldn’t apply to him regardless.

  9. “On the surface of it you find yourself wondering how the hëll they can be condemned for their actions during an alien invasion or their attempts to stop Hydra from killing millions of people; then again, you witness Hillary Clinton being grilled for eleven hours over terrorist attacks and suddenly it seems pretty much reflective of the world we’re living in.”

    Exactly right Peter! I remember that scene in The Winter Soldier where Rogers flat-out lied to the grieving families about the reason their loved ones died. Oh, wait…

    1. Oh, George. Why do you keep repeating this dismal lie over and over and over again?

      1. Uhhh… What?

        Two things. One, I haven’t posted here for a couple of years so claiming I am repeating anything “over and over again” is simply untrue.

        Two, it’s not a lie.

  10. You do frequntly get, on fan forums, discussions of what motivates a super hero to operate independently of official sanction. I like Cap’s explanation here of not wanting to go somewhere he shouldn’t, or be kept from going somewhere he should.

    Tom Holland is the best Spider-Man I’ve ever seen, and I liked both Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield. He nailed Peter, and he nailed Spider-Man. Spidey’s fight scenes were dámņëd fun to watch. I don’t mind Marissa Tomei as Aunt May at all. I had always assumed that elderly Aunt May from the comics was Peter’s Great Aunt, but then it just turned out that Ben and May were just considerably older then Peter’s parents. In any case, it hardly matters, really. I was more jarred, oddly enough, that Peter and May live in an apartment building now instead of a row house.

    I love it that, when Tony asked Peter about his motivation, Peter essentially said “With great power comes great responsibility,” just worded differently.

  11. As I recall, Peter, you even made reference to May and Ben’s advanced age in your novelization of the first Spider-Man movie, putting forth the supposition that Richard Parker had been a change of life baby.

    Either way, dang, but this movie was great. At once one of the most epic and deeply personal of all the Marvel films yet.

    What’s fascinating, though, is how much of the Marvel Cinematic Universe is basically tied up in the rise and fall of Tony Stark.

    1. I guess it never bothered me that May and Ben were elderly because I have aunts and uncles who are approximately that much older than me. My father was the youngest of nine kids, born over thirty years (he had nieces and nephews who are older than him).

  12. Saw it Friday and enjoyed it immensely. So did the rest of the people in the theater, based on their reactions.

    For those who haven’t seen the film yet, the Stan Lee cameo is hilarious.

    I also liked the “we’re still friends, right?” line; the statement that there’s not usually that much talking during a fight; “I’m your conscience, Tony.” and the reaction (by both the characters and the people in the theater) to “remember that really old movie?”

    One of the comic shops relatively near me had a sign on the door saying “no Civil War spoilers.” I quipped to the guy in front of me, “what, they don’t know the North won?”

    On another note, PAD, when I stopped in at my regular comics shop yesterday, I came across issues 5 and 6 of your Phantom series on the shelf. I’d asked you early last year if you knew when issue #3 was coming out and you said it didn’t. So, just in case you weren’t aware, I’m letting you know #s 5 & 6 have come out. I’ve no idea how long they’ve been out; they should have been on my pull list, but someone there must have missed it when they retyped the list.

  13. Sorry for any duplicate posts. It can be hard to tell here when a post has processed properly.

  14. I thoroughly enjoyed the film, but thinking about it more, either I missed something or they didn’t make it clear. Zemo is basically behind most of what happens in the film right from the start. Did they ever explain where his money and infrastructure came from? There was a ton of careful organizing he had to do to accomplish what he did.

    And then he was extremely lucky to do what he did. On the basis of a grainy photo of him in disguise and no other evidence he was able to convince everyone that the Winter Soldier caused the attack in Vienna.

    How was he able to defeat the security to pose as the doctor? Again, must have very lucky there.

    Then in Siberia, he is lucky that Tony came to view the footage (which somehow penetrated inside the car in 1991 probably a lot closer that it really could). It was not guaranteed that he would come or alone.

  15. CIVIL WAR bears no resemblance to the comic book series.

    Idk if I’d go that far, I could recognize at least 3 callbacks to the comics. Sharon’s speech during Peggy’s funeral about planting your feet in the ground and saying no you move, is taken straight from Cap’s speech to Spidey in JMS’ Amazing Spidey Civil War tie-in. Cap’s reasons given to Tony about the pitfalls of deciding what situations the Avengers should act in is taken straight from Spidey’s speech to Congress again from JMS’ Amazing Spidey Civil War prologue. Oh and the cool shot of Cap and Iron Man repulsor blasting America’s shield is taken straight Civil War 7’s cover. I’m sure there are moar.

    screw what the traditionalists say, I thought Marisa Tomei was fine as Aunt May.

    If anything you’re agreeing with the traditionalists. Most of them would prolly tell you Aunt May was too “fine” if you catch my drift. Tony Stank certainly seemed to think so.

    1. I think one of the points in making May elderly was to make her health one of Peter’s consistent stressors. She was always fainting, having vague “attacks” that we are to assume are heart trouble, and Spidey got to angst over how guilty he felt at being out fighting crime instead of looking after her. A few of May’s friends, I recall, thought Peter was a louse for being gone so much.

  16. Growing up, my best friend came from a large family, a wide spread in his siblings ages to the point he had a niece a year or two older than him…

  17. Definitely better than BvS. But at least a half hour too long. If this is what we can expect from a Marvel Studios Spider-Man, Sony can have him back. Not big enough, not mature enough… Maybe in 20 years he’ll be old enough to play the part. Or just get someone else to dub the voice while the CGI does the rest. Just never show him as Peter.

    Where was Samuel L. Jackson to tell Ross that the Avengers are a SHIELD strike force and that he should sit down and shut the f*** up before he’s arrested and put in the raft. I would have settled for Cobie Smulders….

    And if the Avengers don’t have that kind of protection why would a smart business man like Stark sign up. That
    would seem to be pre-requisite one.

    Speaking of Mr. Stark… Seems like the major issues for this movie all came from his little failed A.I. experiment. And all he can say is “My bad”. Weak, Tony, weak.

    –Ed

  18. BTW, I don’t know if something is still a spoiler for a movie if it appears in commercials for the movie, but the commercials for CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR now clearly show Giant-Man. Just sayin’.

  19. I really enjoyed the film. Too many points, major and minor, to summarize in a post.

    All I will say is that this film is noteworthy to me for being the first story featuring Spider-Man in which I found myself thinking, “Man, that Aunt May is HOT….”

  20. How many teens have senior citizens for aunts and uncles anyway?

    Apparently Sharon Carter did. She’s what, 30? Peggy Carter was in her mid to late 90’s during the film? So Peggy would have been in her mid 60s when Sharon came along. So as a teenager Aunt Peggy would have been at least 73. Unless it’s really “Great Aunt Peggy,” but they seem to go out of their way for her to just be Sharon’s aunt.

    And Howard Stark would have been creeping up there in age as well when Tony was born. But knowing the Stark boys that doesn’t seem quite so unreasonable.

  21. Sorry to post, but it’s the only way for me to see the comments right now. On the home page, comments number at 35, here, they’re at 22, and no amount of refreshing the page can change that.

    Still, slightly on topic, sunday, I’m going to see “X-Men : Apocalypse”. Let’s hope it’s as good as Civil War.

  22. Loved the movie but need help with one issue. Tony asked Steve if he knew about his parents and Steve grudgingly admits that he did. He didn’t “know about Bucky” but he knew. My question is, “what exactly did Steve ‘know’?”

    Did he know Tony’s parents died; yes, we all did.

    Did he know they were assassinated? That can’t have been a surprise to anyone since he was a leading scientist creating weapons for the government. At the very least this should have been an educated guess and I doubt the feds would have kept it quiet. In fact they would likely have said he was killed by those nasty Russians.

    Did he know that it was part of the Winter Soldier program? At that point there really was only one winter soldier that anyone knew about so if he did know about the WS connection he would have known it was Bucky.

    Did he know that the blue stuff in the trunk was what created the other winter soldiers (if that’s what really happened. Not sure how they were able to turn Bucky into WS but needed to steel something from Stark to make the others). And if this was the case wouldn’t that mean that it was really the father’s actions that got the mother killed?

    And honestly, anything Steve knew Tony would have to have known since he’s hacked everyone from the government to SHIELD over the years. Unless someone personally walked up to Steve at some point and said, “By the way, thought you should know, the Starks’ were assassinated but don’t tell anyone because we want to keep it a secret” I can’t quite figure out why this was such a major plot point. But then, none of Tony’s actions really rang true to me.

  23. Main page says there are 35 comments to this thread. This page shows only 22. ‘Refresh’, ‘restart’, so forth. No change. This has been going on for a few days. Que pasa?

  24. Still impossible to access recent coments. So, I’ll say that I’ve seen X-Men : Apocalypse this sunday, and loved it a lot. Believe me, you won’t be able to listen to Eurhythmics again after that. And Stan’s appearance is much more serious than in Civil War.

    Also saw Days of Future Past : The Rogue Cut. Still as good as ever, with the added bonus of thse new scens with Anna Paquin.

    Last, but ot least, I think I know why Marvel succeeds while DC fails when making movies about their characters : Marvel movies have heart, DCs are all for the show.

    1. So Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy didn’t have heart? Richard Donner’s Superman films didn’t have heart?

      I will never understand why there is this resistance, both in Hollywood, in the press, and among fans, to talking about writing. Most of the recent DC films were bad because they were simply written badly, period.

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