Why do fans have to bitch about EVERYthing?

So now I’m reading comments from fans widely decrying the photo of Aquaman that Zack Snyder put up on Twitter. Apparently oblivious to the fact that it’s clearly my version of Arthur, fans are shouting that it looks nothing remotely like the DC Aquaman. Which I guess makes sense; mine was twenty years ago and that’s two generations of comics fans to have passed through and forgotten my iteration of the Sea King.

But still: when will they learn? I still remember clearly being at a convention back in the early 90s, and it had been announced that Tim Burton was casting Michael Keaton as Batman. I was on a panel and we were asked about it. Every other panel member said it was an insult, that it was going to be 1960s Adam West all over again. And I was the last person to speak, and I said, “Look: Tim Burton is a director. Keaton is an actor. They’re both good at what they do, and just because they’re mostly known for comedy doesn’t mean they can’t turn out a great Batman film.”

And I was booed. By everyone. Even the other panelists gave me the evil eye.

Flash forward several years, and I’m at another convention, and I hear two fans talking about the just announced “Batman Returns.” Their opinion: “It better be Tim Burton and Michael Keaton or otherwise it’s gonna suck.” I felt vindicated.

Remember when photos of Heath Ledger surfaced as the Joker and fans proclaimed he looked completely wrong and the film was going to suck?

And fans never learn. They NEVER learn.

Why the hëll can’t they rein in their perpetual expectation for the worst and just wait to see the dámņëd film? Yes, “Man of Steel” was a flawed film. Y’know what? It was still 100% better than Superman III and IV.

PAD

43 comments on “Why do fans have to bitch about EVERYthing?

  1. I was one of the áššhølëš that complained about Heath Ledger. Thankfully, after that, I learned my lesson.

    To be fair, I wasn’t too vocal about it. It was just a fear in the pit of my stomach that we’d have to watch another reboot of Batman shortly thereafter.

    Just like everyone is so worried about having to sit through another “Great Power/Great Responsibility” speech, is how I felt about seeing Bruce Wayne lose his parents again.

    For what it’s worth, I’m excited to see your Arthur on-screen.

  2. Agreed same thing going on now wit Affleck Batman. I actually thought that Aquaaman image was pretty awesome. I remember back in the day doubting the Keaton/Burton Bayman, I think it is because of that I have adopted a wait and see attitude. Although this new FF is testing that.

  3. I must admit, Jason’s Aquaman looks like the kind of guy that could toss a polar bear, and I am kind of hoping that happens in the movie.

  4. i too have learned my lesson after heath ledger. I’ve never been too vocal but after the starwars prequels i’ve learned to walk into movies with no expectations

  5. I like Jason, I liked his Ronon Dex and his Khal Drogo, and I’m looking forward to his Arthur Curry. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

  6. Yes, there are people who have complained. Yet, there are also people who’ve spoken excitedly about this version of Aquaman, usually saying how “badass” he looks and citing your version as the inspiration. For some reason, complaining always seems louder than praise. However, there usually is some praise in there. I suggest you don’t let the complaining get to you. It’s actually much worse when no one says anything, because that means no one’s interested.

    Now, I won’t say I’m too interested in this version of Aquaman. But then, the tone of the Man of Steel movies really isn’t for me. I prefer my superheroes more light and sunny. My favorite versions of Aquaman stem from his Ramona Fradon and Nick Cardy days as well as the boisterous version from the cartoon Batman: Brave and the Bold. However, I know there are people who swear by your version of the King of the Seven Seas and will gladly go see this new version of him onscreen.

    1. For me, it depends on the character. Spidey and Supes should indeed by sunny, at least in terms of the tone of the character. Not so for Batman or Wolverine.

  7. The picture seemed fine to me. He looks like a warrior king, and I’ve always liked those interpretations of Aquaman better. I’m just not really buzzed about the project due to the Man of Steel movie falling flat for me in pretty much every way; especially the darker, more cynical tone I got from it.

    I’ll certainly keep an open mind based on word of mouth when it lands in theaters, but Dark Superman Descends pretty much shifted anything else in the franchise over to a rent unless they just blow me away here.

    1. Growing up with the post-crisis Superman I like to have a version of the character who still has both parents alive. I love stories were Superman has to make a moral decision even with all his powers he needs to fly to Kansas and ask his dad what he should do. Man of Steel has many flows but what lost me completely is when Clark let his dad die.

  8. I wonder how many of the people who complained so much about the casting of the now-popular actors when they were first announced (from Keaton to Ledger et al) joined on the absolute outcry over Ben Affleck being cast as Batman? He’s done some bombs, but he’s done plenty of good movies as well.

    Like PAD, I’ll wait to see the final product before making any judgments.

    1. They all have. It’s the same people, over and over. They are loudly declaring that Affleck has never made a good film, despite his great work in any number of movies. And they bìŧçhëd about Robert Downey as Tony Stark. And they complained when Doctor Who was going to be a guy wearing a modern day black jacket and team up with Billie Piper. They just NEVER learn.

      PAD

      1. Hmmm…well, I’m one of the ones “bìŧçhìņg” about Affleck, because I’ve never…not once, not ever…seen a performance of his that’s engaged me. It’s reached the point that not only does his mere presence mentally eject me from the story, but also now is enough to ensure I won’t be seeing the movie (whatever movie that is). Further, as more information has come out, it seems as if WB is trying to (to draw a comparison to the Marvel movies) jump straight from Iron Man to Avengers. Affleck plus about 27 kitchen sinks just don’t instill me with confidence, and that’s coming from someone who enjoyed Man of Steel.

        Maybe I’ll end up being wrong. Maybe Snyder will be able to juggle the overcrowding and also manage to get a performance I’d like from Affleck. But, if I find out, I won’t find out in a movie theater. After a start that I enjoyed with MoS, WB has effectively turned me off from the fledgling DC “Movieverse.”

        Didn’t mind the pic of Momoa as Aquaman. Just don’t know when – or if – I’ll ever see him in action as the character.

        –Daryl

      2. Just curious: did you see “Shakespeare in Love?” How can someone not love Affleck in “Shakespeare in Love?” It was a supporting role, but still…

        PAD

  9. No fans will never be happy, and we are awful nits. For example Batman came out in 1989, so your memory is off by a few years. Brian Williams would understand. Yes I am that guy, sorry.

  10. I wasn’t even aware that anyone had criticized Ledger as the Joker.

    In any event, “fans” continue to bìŧçh because it’s not about a “learning” curve. It’s about the manner in which for many people, the anonymity of the Internet represents the removal of any and all filters that promote things like thoughtfulness, intelligence, reservation of judgment, a sense of discernment, being well-informed, etc. When you consider that some people are empowered by the ability to communicate publicly and anonymously to behave with complete lack of human decency, merely “not learning” to wait to see a film or TV show before rendering judgment on it seems like the least of the Web’s effects.

    1. “I wasn’t even aware that anyone had criticized Ledger as the Joker.”

      Oh man, are you lucky. There were a ton of “Brokeback Mountain” jokes and some that veered off into homophobic rants about Ledger and how he was balding and other nonsense.

      ….Of course, as PAD pointed out somewhere else, all that stopped after the film came out. While some regularly bìŧçh about Ledger as the Joker, they are few and far betwen.

  11. People are always looking for a reason to bìŧçh, the sad truth is there’s not stopping that. Best I can do is say tone it out. That being said however, I personally have always LOVED your version of Aquaman. It’s the reason I first got behind him as a kid and it’s always the first incarnation I go to when I think about the character. Simply put I still think that he was AWESOME!!!

    Honestly I’ve always hated how they went away from that look and everything you established back then, and while I do like what Geoff Johns has done with the character and salvaging his reputation to me Aquaman should and will always be that scruffy badass with a harpoon for a hand. Mamoa might not be the guy I would have cast but I’m willing to give him a chance and see how things play out with him, and at any rate at least they’re using the REAL King of Atlantis for this movie.

  12. Aquaman is one of two DC characters that holds my interest. I was hooked, no pun intended, by the SuperFriends show and the Mego figure my parents got me in the ’70’s.

    I can’t WAIT to see what this movie does. These characters don’t belong to us. We go along with them for the ride, but they don’t belong to us. They don’t belong to the companies, much as their legal departments may quibble over that. They belong to the writers and artists. I want to see something new with these characters. Does it always work as well as everything else? No. But give the story a chance to take you along.

  13. Fans, by definition, must be emotionally invested in what the thing is. They cannot be invested in what it could be. Novelty, by definition, can have no Fans. To seek something different means that you do not enjoy what is as much as you think you should.

  14. To give some of the complainers the benefit of the doubt, I think there exists in the minds of a LOT of fans that the movie industry will, no matter how often successful, reasonably faithful iterations of their favorite characters get put up on the screen, ultimately screw them over. There is the permanent lingering certainty that the world is waiting to mock them, and to spit on their favorite characters. If you’ve been mocked your whole life, it’s hard not to expect it to keep happening.
    On the other hand, in some cases I think that Brad Bird in Ratatouille pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as bìŧçhìņg goes. A great many people do it to sound clever, and it’s a lot easier to sound clever complaining than it is being positive and hopeful.

  15. I was one of the ones who was … less than impressed … with the pre-release imagery of Heath Ledger as the Joker.

    I am still unimpressed, and frankly, i am even less imressed than that byt the three latest Batman films.

  16. I think you explained part of why fans never learn with your line about two generations of comics fans and Aquaman. Perhaps it’s not that fans never learn. Perhaps it’s simply that the older fans *have* learned, but younger, more vocal (particularly on platforms like Twitter) fans who *haven’t* learned yet have come along behind them. Thus there’s always a segment of fans who haven’t learned yet simply because they’re young.

    1. But they were also the first to call it, I think that’s another part to it.

      Worst comment thread ever!

  17. “I still remember clearly being at a convention back in the early 90s, and it had been announced that Tim Burton was casting Michael Keaton as Batman…”

    To nitpick, since the first Burton/Keaton Batman movie was released in 1989, so I hope this didn’t happen in the early 90s.

    But I definitely think that Lee K. Seitz is on to something in his response. I can certainly believe that there is always a younger/newer segment of complaining fans taking up for older ones who have mellowed about such things. At least, that’s something I want to believe is true…

  18. My complaint is two-fold, and both are of the kind that I’m allowed to make BEFORE I actually see the movie.

    The first complaint is that, based on the one photo I’ve seen, I think the Aquaman costume is butt ugly. Don’t have to wait to see the movie to know I think it’s butt ugly.

    My second complaint is that MAN OF STEEL was a dark movie. It shouldn’t have been. Batman can have dark movies, Superman doesn’t work well in dark. He’s a more optimistic character and his movies should be more optimistic. And the Aquaman costume looks like it’s one that’s made for a dark movie. So I fear that BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE will be dark. Moreover, as this movie is the set-up for the upcoming Justice League franchise, I fear that as it will be born out of a dark movie, it, too, will be dark.

    Not everything in the DC cinematic needs to be dark. GREEN LANTERN didn’t fail because it was a light and not dark movie, it failed because it had a lousy script.

  19. My only complaint about the picture is the pitchfork he’s holding. C’mon, five tines? That seems like overcompensation for something! Where’s his proper three-tined trident?

    Other than that, it looks absolutely fantastic.

    1. And for the record, from the first moment I heard Robert Downey Jr. was cast as Tony, I was saying that it was a brilliant choice.

  20. I pretty much try to limit my genre actor complaints until AFTER the movie. (Except for, y’know, that whole “Green Hornet” thing that I still won’t see)

    Michael Keaton was great in “Batman”. Billy Zane looked like he was having a blast in “The Phantom”. Alec Baldwin did a serviceable “Shadow” (except when they had to give him his normal face)

    But to this day I will still gripe about Mos Def basically just sleep-walking through the role of Ford Prefect, a role that cries out for someone always trying to one-up Zaphod, and Keanu Reeves looking like he’s in way over his head in “Much Ado”.

    1. I loved the Green Hornet. A lot of people despised it, but I thought it was a fun take.

      But I agree with you on Mos Def. My attitude, first of all, was that he should have been British. And if he wasn’t, he should have seemed more into the role at the very least.

      PAD

  21. Interesting to hear what you think of the Aquaman design – I was going to ask what you thought of it at Mysticon, but you beat me to the punch it seems.

  22. Look, there are obvious complaints here. Momoua’s not a blond white guy like the comic character is. (Michael B.Jordan doesn’t look like Johnny Storm but he might make a fine Black Panther) Also, A lot of people might not have liked the guy as Conan. However, if they are really doing a serious attempt at your version of the character, I’ll shut the hëll up. Frankly, the casting for that Supergirl pilot is worse.

    1. “Frankly, the casting for that Supergirl pilot is worse.”

      And you know this how, Nathan? Why not just wait to watch the pilot episode first? I was exactly that way with ARROW and THE FLASH, and I’ve eaten a big plate of crow (with fries) and love both shows.

  23. Frankly, they really offended me when they claimed that both Laura Vandervoort and Claire Holt were too old to play Supergirl. There is the Calista Flockhart/ Cat Grant thing is weird too, but that might fit under the Michael Keaton rule too. However, you are right that both ARROW and FLASH are awesome.

    1. If they claimed that Laura Vandervoort and Claire Holt were too old to play Supergirl, then yeah, that was an idiotic thing to say. It should not affect what one thinks of the casting though (just my POV). And both women don’t “look old” to me either.

      It could also be that they approached both women and both turned down the offer. That said, I’m also interested to see Callista Flockhart as Cat Grant–so long as Cat isn’t Ally McBeal 2.0 (and I say this as a fan of that show!).

      And yep, THE FLASH is awesome–and to think we got a live-action Firestorm out of it too.

  24. The instant I heard that Momoa was cast for the role I knew that (at least stylistically) it was going to hew pretty closely to PAD’s take on the character. Anyone who was expecting short blonde hair and orange chainmail was deluding themselves.

  25. There was a fairly large pushback to Chris Evans as Cap as well that’s pretty much gone.

    At least the pushback on Benedict Cumberbatch isn’t that he doesn’t fit the Character or they can’t see him as Strange but more of the idea that they didn’t want yet another white guy headlining a Marvel film.

    (Too be fair some of that is based around the fact they’re pìššëd he was Khan and they whitewashed the character)

  26. Honestly, I feel like I’ve got a pretty good track record. Not necessarily of being “right”, because I think that’s pretty subjective, but of having expectations that track pretty well with my eventual opinion. The things that I thought I’d like, I liked. (I was shouting to the rooftops about how great ‘Guardians’ was going to be as soon as I heard “Directed by James Gunn”, and I was not disappointed.) The things that I thought I’d dislike, I disliked. (I don’t think that the ’89 “Batman” aged well at all.) And a lot of the time, I said, “I’ll reserve judgment.” Which is the smart thing to do a lot of the time, as PAD points out. 🙂

    Here, I’m reserving judgment…but I have concerns. I think the costume looks good, and that it’s consistent with the character as he’s been depicted since the 90s. But I’m a little worried that we’re not seeing any signs of anything other than “grimdark” in Snyder’s vision, and that Snyder’s vision is the only real one guiding the DC Cinematic Universe. Marvel has been really good about shifting the tone up a bit, and including humor and heroism along with pathos, and I’m concerned that Snyder wants to give a universally Frank-Miller-in-the-80s aesthetic. Because I don’t think I want to come along on that ride. 🙂

  27. As always Mr David? You slap tidal waves away with basic common sense. I just find it amazing that such a passed over, prone to parody character is now a fuss when given a shot of ruggedness. Where were these ardent, die hard fans in the Aquaman monthly sales tally? “Sigh”

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