My long-term prediction: Election day will launch a lengthy legal battle and on December 21 the Supreme Court decides in favor of Romney…thereby fulfilling the Mayan calendar end-of-the-world-date.
That said, I will endeavor to be even handed in my commenting on the debate. See you shortly.
PAD
9:01–Am I the only one who thinks this should kick off with an announcer saying, “Let’s get ready to rummmmmble!”
9:02–No cheering or booing? Let’s see how long that lasts.
9:03–Obama sat first. Fox immediately says that cost him the debate.
9:04–Mommy! Why is the scary man walking toward me?
9:05–Lack of specifics as to how he’ll create jobs. Again.
9:06–Obama launches the first blast directly at Romney. It’s a delicate needle to thread–answering the questions while jabbing at the other.
9:08–Ah, and Candy now does exactly what the candidates didn’t want: pushing the matter and trying to pin them down. Meanwhile Obama’s head is so up that he could be a head on Mt. Rushmore.
9:08–I have to admit, if anyone knows about taking companies bankrupt, it’s Romney. Way more experience in bankrupting companies.
9:11–Romney tries to steamroll over Candy and she won’t allow it.
9:12–Any answer that starts off with stump speech points without answering the question directly is a bad answer. Obama needed to say “yes” or “no” to the guy’s question about gas prices. Both Romney and Candy can jump on him for it.
9:14–Christ, now Romney isn’t making note of the fact that Obama dodged the question. An opportunity handed to him, and he bypasses it. Why? Probably because he’s not going to answer questions either and doesn’t want to be called on it.
9:15–Caroline says, “How can he (Romney) talk about the President controlling everything? We learned there’s three branches of government. He’s only one.”
9:17–BAM! Obama points out a Romney flip flip, this one on coal. First of many to come, I’d think.
9:19–Head to head. It’s heating up.
9:20–Bad body language. Obama let Romney physically back him into a corner.
9:20–WHAT? I live in Suffolk county and that’s bûllšhìŧ. Gas prices were NOT below $2 four years ago.
9:21–First audible reaction to the debate, and it’s solidly on Obama’s side.
9:22–Aaaaand as Romney runs over the moderator and interrupts…you know, like Fox said was inappropriate.
9:26–I wonder how many in the middle class have worries about capital gains?
9:27–Obama subtly shakes his head on the “study.”
9:27–Obama presents his side with less numbers and more lucidity. He’s connecting in a way that Romney simply can’t.
9:30–Romney wants to get the economy going again, using his vast experience of buying companies, destroying them, and lining his pockets.
9:31–Obama looks like his head’s ready to explode when Romney talks about his experience in the private sector.
9:32–Obama really needs to laugh at the notion that Romney the job destroyer is a friend of small business.
9:33–Look how Romney’s smile doesn’t touch his eyes.
9:34–Oh, man, check out Obama’s grin. Romney isn’t even allowing for the possibility that things won’t go wrong.
9:37–Ohhhh, this is the chance for Obama to recapture the sinking opinions of women (at least according to polls.)
9:38–See, these are the kinds of things that Obama has done that hasn’t gotten enough publicity.
9:39–We must not tolerate discrimination…except for when Obama tolerated discrimination against gay marriage until Biden called him out on it.
9:40–Romney says that businesses have to be more flexible. A solid point. As president, how’s he going to make that happen?
9:42–Caroline to her mother just now: “Mommy, why do you keep holding up your middle finger?”
9:42–Excellent. Obama takes a sideways swipe at Romney’s abortion stance and reminds women that Romney is basically anti-women’s health and reproductive rights.
9:44–Romney is now trying to claim that he’s all for women’s reproductive rights and access to birth control? Has he been talking to his VP candidate?
9:47–I understand how hard it is to start a small business and see Bain Capital come in and destroy it.
9:50–Love Obama’s list of differences between Romney and Bush.
9:52–First mention of bin Laden, but doesn’t seem forced. Organic response to the question that basically gives Obama a chance to list his accomplishments.
9:54–Watch Romney say “He went over, so I should be able to.”
9:56–As the fact checkers go into overdrive on all Romney’s assertions…
9:57–We could try looking at Romney’s record, but he’s already run away from it.
9:58–“Don’t go away?” Where’s he gonna go?
9:59–We welcome legal immigrants. Because we’ve already seen the damage that unwelcome foreigners can wreak on this country…like when they bring Smallpox with them and wind up wiping out the indigenous population.
10:00–Ohhh, Obama can’t wait to leap on this one.
10:02–If you’re doing a drinking game involving Obama saying “folks,” you’d be pretty hammered by now.
10:04–Yes, Obama DID answer the question on Univision. I SAW him answer it.
10:06–“I don’t look at my pension; it’s not as big as yours.” There’s the takeaway line.
10:07–Does anyone think that if Biden hadn’t kept interrupting, that Obama wouldn’t be doing it now.
10:08–Stop saying “Don’t go away!”
10:08–Oh, Romney’s been salivating for this one. This is dangerous. Fortunately, Obama should be prepped for this.
10:09–Obama HAS to talk about how the GOP slashed $300 million for security.
10:10–No, no he’s screwing this up. Romney is going to screw him on this, especially when he just said that it’s his responsibility and Hillary just said it was hers.
10:12–Yeah, Romney’s hurting Obama on this one. Bush already proved how seeming disconnected from a disaster can hurt him.
10:15–Okay, Obama’s getting ramped up. We need to see more of that.
10:16–Oh my God, Romney just got corrected by both the moderator and the President and he’s STILL insisting that he was right.
10:17–He’s pretty much done nothing to curtail guns. Which is why it’s hilarious that the ARA insists he’s coming for their guns.
10:19–Romney will have to tread carefully, though. He can’t come out in favor of curtailing guns because it’ll pìšš øff his constituency.
10:20–Yeah, see, that’s where Romney and Obama are more or less identical.
10:21–Wait. Romney is trying to turn gun control into a referendum on families? Seriously?
10:23–So there’s another difference between Romney and Bush: Romney doesn’t approve of Fast and Furious which was begun under the Bush administration.
10:25–At what point did Romney suddenly start saying “folks.”
10:26–“And reduce violence.” Yeah, that sure tied it together.
10:26–Please, please, Mr. President, PLEASE bring up the thousands upon thousands of jobs that Bain Capital has lost.
10:28–Has ANYONE given an answer under two minutes? We see it ticking down repeatedly.
10:33–Obama takes a broader view and makes a more effective memory. Oh my God, Romney, shut up.
10:34–Ooooo…good question.
10:34–Romney takes the opportunity to sideways address the 47% gaffe by talking about how he cares about 100% of the people.
10:35–He’s actually dumb enough to talk about health care for Massachusetts after he’s run away from it?
10:36–I wonder if Obama will make a joke about the biggest misconception is that he wasn’t born here.
10:37–Well, Romney had that coming: he’s the one who alluded to the 47% remark. That opened the door for Obama.
10:37–Obama slam dunked the ending.
Okay, I openly admit I’m biased. But I think that Obama absolutely won. I saw real passion from Obama and real feigned passion from Romney. And Romney’s getting fact checked ON AIR blew up any advantage he gained on the question about the embassy.
There was one image where Romney and Obama are standing maybe two feet from each other, both of them with their hands raised palms at each other. And all I could think of was, “So! I see your Schwartz is as big as mine.” Meanwhile, Fox is complaining about the moderator correcting Romney on the terrorist thing.
What it comes down to is this: I think Obama reminded people why they like him.
• 
You know what really bugged me about the debate??? And no one even asked this or even talked about it last night … HOW DID THEY GET THAT CARPET SO RED???
I mean c’mon that thing was super bright. Especially in contrast to the candidates shiny polished black dress shoes whenever they walked on the carpet. I know they try to enhance colors nowadays for HD tvs and such, but seriously that red carpet was like looking into a laser gun sight. I’m sure it had to make some of the Secret Service guys nervous ..well, then again maybe not, apparently some of them are used to red lights.
So, how many times did ya’ll shout at the screen “So, ANSWER THE QUESTION ALREADY!!!!”
It is like they hear a question, think to themselves “OK, this question is on energy. I have a practiced two and half minute spiel on energy, I will give them that…”
I mean, did either candidate ever even LISTEN to the actual question? And did either of them even acknowledge the two minute limit, much less actually follow it!
I love when the GOP claims we think Obama is ‘G-d,’ but when he faltered in the first debate, we admitted it. Now, with Ryan and Romney sucking in their most recent debates, it has to be some outside reason or the moderator. It couldn’t possibly be that their positions or facts were wrong! It’s the GOP who treat their leadership as infallible deities.
Neil,
Both sides are guilty of overlooking their own guys faults, and blowing up their opponents faults to biblical proportions.
As for positions and facts, neither side seems to have much truck with them. It is a Twain Thing “and statistics!”
I think you’re demonstrably wrong. I’ll grant you it’s anecdotal, but I saw plenty of Dems willing to concede that Obama had won. I have see virtually no members of the GOP conceding anything to Biden in the second debate and Obama in the third. The furthest they’ll go is say, “Well, it was a tie,” but give it straight out to the other side? Uh uh.
PAD
Charlie E., as you seem to be a strong proponent of actual facts, demonstrate it.
Because there are dozens (hundreds?) of examples of Democrats/liberals faulting Obama’s performance in the first debate. Show us all the equally prominent right wing folks criticizing Ryan or Romney.
List the lies and distortions each side told in the last three debates and let’s see which list is longer.
Go ahead. We’ll wait.
Easy start points for you.
Dubious Denver Debate Declarations
Obama and Romney swap exaggerations and false claims in their first meeting.
http://factcheck.org/2012/10/dubious-denver-debate-declarations/
Veep Debate Violations
Ryan, Biden rough up the facts in their one and only meeting.
http://factcheck.org/2012/10/veep-debate-violations/
FactChecking the Hofstra Debate
Obama and Romney continue false, misleading attacks in second debate.
http://factcheck.org/2012/10/factchecking-the-hofstra-debate/
What’s Romney’s Plan for Preexisting Conditions?
The Obama campaign has repeatedly said that Mitt Romney was wrong when he claimed at the first debate that “preexisting conditions are covered under my [health care] plan.” We mostly agree. Romney’s comments implied that he would keep the provisions of the Affordable Care Act that guarantee coverage for all, regardless of preexisting conditions. But the campaign has given different explanations for what Romney meant, saying at first that he would leave it to the states and then saying he would expand federal law for those with “continuous coverage.”
http://factcheck.org/2012/10/whats-romneys-plan-for-preexisting-conditions/
Oh God, not this again.
Seriously, is it that hard to believe that conservatives (and a decent number of independents, going by the polls) don’t perceive either Obama’s or Romney’s performances in the same way you do? That maybe, just maybe, reasonable minds can differ, and consider the last two debates narrow wins or split decisions? (Which even someone as pro-Obama as Joe Klein at Time thought? Unless he’s suddenly turned into a Republican dittohead too? http://swampland.time.com/2012/10/16/the-hofstra-debate/) Are you really so in need of external validation for your opinions that your opponents must–must!–agree with you, and if they don’t it’s because they are lying weasels?
Republicans didn’t concede a blowout victory to Obama because they didn’t see one. Neither did independents, or the chattering classes. In fact, even among the various discussions that went from the premise that Biden and/or Obama won their more recent debates, the only place contending that Ryan or Romney “sucked” is… here.
Thanks, Jerry. Looking at the Summaries (bullet points and paragraphs) at the links you cited my contention that Romney has a longer list of lies/distortions is supported. Even with factcheck.org’s clear attempt at “fairness” by trying to alternate between the candidates, Romney/Ryan far outdid Obama/Biden.
TOTAL:
Romney/Ryan: 22
Obama/Biden: 12
David: Seriously, is it that hard to believe that conservatives … don’t perceive either Obama’s or Romney’s performances in the same way you do?
…
the only place contending that Ryan or Romney “sucked” is… here
It’s not often you see someone actually state the point being made, and yet miss it completely.
Republicans didn’t concede a blowout victory to Obama because they didn’t see one.
That I’d believe.
Then….. why would you expect conservatives (or anyone) to concede victory to Obama… if they honestly don’t believe that he…. won? Above, you rail against the GOP for not giving it “straight out to the other side.” Now you say that you’d agree that conservatives didn’t see Obama winning the debate. Why would the GOP give props to Obama for winning the debate when they don’t believe that he did? I certainly wouldn’t expect Dems to throw a victory party for Romney if they thought that Obama won the debate.
It goes right back to the very premise of the statement: that, based on reactions to these debates, Democrats/Obama supporters (since one does not have to be the former to be the latter) are more capable and/or willing to recognize a less than stellar showing by their candidate than Republicans/Romney supporters.
–Daryl
if they honestly don’t believe that he…. won?
See, now you’re just confusing being honest with being blindly loyal to your party.
Democrats/Obama supporters (since one does not have to be the former to be the latter) are more capable and/or willing to recognize a less than stellar showing by their candidate than Republicans/Romney supporters.
But you’re acting as though it’s an established fact that Romney had a poor showing on Tuesday. That’s far from universally accepted, even among people who thought Obama won on points, most of whom (at least those that aren’t here) accept that Romney at least did decently. And I would suggest to you that, if you were to look closely at the reactions among Republicans, Romney supporters are less jubilant this time around. They (we) were ecstatic after the first debate, and more subdued (though satisfied) after the second. Conservatives are perfectly capable of distinguishing a Romney blowout from “eh, not too bad,” and recognizing Obama’s improved performance between the two debates.
My objection is to people here complaining that “eh, not too bad” was in fact an Obama blowout, and Republican opinions to the contrary are a result of our distorted perceptions. You’re ignoring a basic issue: is there any basis for assuming that the liberal perception of the debate is more clear-eyed than the conservative? Unlike you, I’m not making a bald assertion: I’m encouraging you to take a look around at allegedly neutral analyses. Most commentators, conservative or liberal, are calling it a draw or a narrow Obama win. Most conservatives favor the draw, most liberals favor a narrow Obama win; confirmation bias lives. But when there’s only a handful of people claiming a clear and decisive win for Obama, and you’re one of them, forgive me for not abandoning my own opinion for yours.
Oh, and Mr. Martin: It’s not often you see someone actually state the point being made, and yet miss it completely.
Pot, meet kettle. Although, since you edited the “and independents” from my original comment about “conservatives and independents” it’s a little hard for me to believe you’re actually missing the point, instead of being deliberately mendacious. If only conservatives saw one thing and everyone else saw the other, it would support PAD’s theory. If only people on this blog saw an Obama blowout and most everyone else saw a close-fought debate, (which is what I actually said, and which happens to be true– facts matter, remember?) it would support me. Way to flip things around. You should go into politics.
Mr. Ries: See, now you’re just confusing being honest with being blindly loyal to your party.
Ask Mr. Martin to show you his pot and kettle collection.
Apparently it’s worth repeating:
It’s not often you see someone actually state the point being made, and yet miss it completely.
Apparently it’s worth repeating:
It’s not often you see someone actually state the point being made, and yet miss it completely.
Maybe communication around here is less than optimal.
Then….. why would you expect conservatives (or anyone) to concede victory to Obama… if they honestly don’t believe that he…. won?
I don’t. That’s kind of the point. Conservatives are so self-deluded, so lock-step, with their heads so far up Fox’s ášš, that they don’t believe because they cannot believe. Much like any cult incapable of seeing the flaws and downright insanity in its leaders. Liberals are able to take honest stock in their candidates and admit when they blow it. Conservatives cannot. It’s not in their DNA. Admitting fault, admitting wrong-doing, is considered a sign of weakness. That’s why Romney is the perfect candidate: He cannot admit he is wrong, and when caught in outright lies, he denies it.
People who claim that “Romney did well” or “Romney held his own” are only saying it because he didn’t urinate on Obama. The Romney that people without blinders saw was an arrogant, petulant, high-handed privileged áššhølë who wound up getting fact checked on TV and relied on his surrogates to point the blame at the questioners and the moderator. His answers oftentimes displayed how out of touch he was, and how ANY woman could vote for him after his answers on pay equity is completely unfathomable. Even his out of touch answers were lies, most conspicuously his assertion that he went looking for qualified women as governor when in fact a woman’s organization, MassGAP, went to him. The ONLY way anyone thinks Romney did well is that they’re proud of him for not screaming at the audience. And the fact that public opinion even rates the debate as close show how low a standard Romney is being held to.
PAD
Peter – Fantastic job with the live blog, but my comment has nothing to do with that…
In today’s issue of X-Factor you say on the recap page that you’ve been getting a deluge of emails (even though I can’t find your e-mail address anywhere) from people who can’t find a copy of recent issues because they’re sold out everywhere. This is the second time in recent memory I’ve seen you mention people not being able to find issues where you’ve failed to mention buying them via Comixology. If a person is having trouble finding a recent issue it may lead them to drop the book because they can’t follow the full story, if you point them to Comixology they can buy it with no worry of it ever being sold out. On top of that, they have all but about 20 issues of you current run available (including the Madrox mini), most for only $1.99. I know there will always be the “but I need to hold it in my hands” types, but a digital copy is still a better alternative to not being able to read it at all. In the future I hope you’ll mention this alternative as it can only increase readership and is a much better solution to the problem than “order in advance so it doesn’t happen next time.”
Never stop writing X-Factor, you’re awesome.
This obvious ad brought to you with pride by the fine folks at Comixology.
Actually, it’s not. I just think it’s a missed opportunity for Peter to mention digital versions and Comixology is the only place Marvel distributes through digitally. Big fan of the company though!
Must be nice to live in that bubble:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUZjehPtl_A
We interrupt this debate over the debate to bring you the following message from Aquaman:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151481780109988&set=a.10150100554204988.321645.116475154987&type=1&ref=nf
*He* wins.
GOP voter registration scandal widens
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/19/gop_voter_registration_scandal_widens/
If you can’t beat ’em, do whatever you can to keep ’em from voting.
Yeah, there’s a certain level of humor when looking at this. It’s like the GOP decided that since they couldn’t find enough real voter fraud cases in the last ten years to fill out their stats and match their claims of voter fraud that they would have to set about creating it themselves.
Bet you money that the same Republicans demanding action in the form of
voter suppressionnew voting regulations or the ones who demanded investigations into ACORN based on thelies they told and the fraudulent videos they promoted and supportedinformation the presented will stall on this one if not completely turn a blind eye to it.And of course, the fact that Punchin’ Tagg Romney owns the company that makes voting machines will have no effect.
And of course, the fact that Punchin’ Tagg Romney owns the company that makes voting machines will have no effect.
To follow up on that, Neil:
Romney Family Investment Ties To Voting Machine Company That Could Decide The Election Causing Concern
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/10/20/romney-family-investment-ties-to-voting-machine-company-that-could-decide-the-election-causes-concern/
What is it with Ohio and their voting machines, anyway? Diebold and Bush, now this.
An article about Romney from someone who’s been following him for quite some time.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/the-other-missing-man/
PAD