Spoiler thread “Young Justice: Bloodlines”

So it doesn’t get mixed in with the earlier thread, here is a thread specifically designed to discuss today’s episode of “Young Justice” by yours truly.

I would ask that no one post until 11 AM Pacific (2 PM Eastern) in order to allow for West Coast airing.

PAD

60 comments on “Spoiler thread “Young Justice: Bloodlines”

  1. Good episode, but I was getting worried we wouldn’t see a Jay Garrick appearance. More intrigue to keep you guessing, but timeline stuff gives me a headache. Was hoping we’d see just a little more Red Arrow stuff. Nice to see the Flash, especially for the first time since the five year jump. I still think Nightwing is leading not only the “sidekicks”, but the entire JL.

  2. Let’s see…
    good episode : check – trademark lil’ one liners (that make you laugh out loud without meaning to?) : check

    other then that I love time travel episdodes – and this one was a good one.

    so I’ll ask a quick Q’s,
    (I must be missing something) who’s Nathanial? (or will we find out about him later on)
    And assuming the timeline diverged Nate’s time would continue from his point of view while a new timeline was created that he would have no knowledge of wouldn’t it?

    Told you I love these type of ep’s – love the mind boggleing confusion.

    and if you can indulge me, I have a tech question –

    Peter…Mr. David, I feel I should be formal (I don’t know why)when asking (probobly cause I’m asking for something) considering what I’ve read about TV shows and a writing staff

    Do you ever watch an episode you’ve written to see how much of what you put into “the episode” makes it? Do you handle everything? (A & B – and sometimes C Plots?)

    excuse any speling errors in Advance (or in this case hindsight) – and thank you for your time

    Ernie
    mm205ernie@yahoo.com

    1. In terms of who Neutron is, this should answer it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_(DC_Comics)

      There are different theories of time travel, obviously. The way we’re playing it is that there’s one timeline and only one, and if you change it at some point, the ripple effect causes everything from that point on to change in order to accommodate the revision. Kind of like “Back to the Future.”

      And sure, I always watch to see what made it into the episode. There’s always stuff that winds up getting cut for time. In this episode, we lost a bunch of stuff in the Roy/Cheshire storyline, both in terms of characterization and also staging the rescue. Couldn’t be helped.

      PAD

      1. But you see this is my point (kinda)
        Marty’s parents, brother and sister, etc. never knew anything changed Neutron knows somethings have changed (obviously not the “big thing”) and then we’re left with that ending,

        so was it for simplification in telling us the veiwer things still need to be changed? – or is there something more?…(that last part is a plot Q. and I don’t want to be spoiled so don’t answer that part…assuming you even answer at all.)

        And thanks for the link – answered q’s as to who he is in in YJ.

        Ernie

      2. You said:

        “The way we’re playing it is that there’s one timeline and only one, and if you change it at some point, the ripple effect causes everything from that point on to change in order to accommodate the revision. Kind of like “Back to the Future.””

        However, wouldn’t that have created a paradox? Theoretically speaking, if Bart had gone to the past to avert the dystopian future that he was from, the future would have changed so that Bart wouldn’t have needed to go back in time and so he wouldn’t gone back and caused those changes, and so then everything contradicts itself. And besides, “Back to the Future” had alternate timelines.

  3. This is a great episode. I recall in a past interview you had trouble writing speedsters. Was it hard for you to write this episode?

    1. Nah. The plot from a speed POV centered around trying to get near enough to Neutron to do some damage. So it wasn’t really an issue.

      PAD

  4. Great episode! Good to see whole Flash family: Barry, Iris, Wally, Bart, plus cameos by Jay & Joan Garrick. Almost forgot about the shout-out that Bart gives to his dad and aunt. Nice touches all around.

    One question though ~ If I understand correctly, Bart’s point of origin in the DC universe (proper) has him coming to the 21st century via the 31st ( 1000 years from now ~ Legion of Superheroes time ). Why have him pop up from 40 years or so from the “Invasion” storyline?

    I can understand if “Young Justice” wanted it that way so as to avoid 31st century and, therefore, any and all mention of LSH in order not to further muddy viewer understanding. However, all season long, viewers have been treated to a fair portion of characters populating the DC Universe already. That particular argument wouldn’t hold up unless there were specific hands-off rules already in place regarding that scenario.

    Of course, it could be as simple as Bart’s backstory hasn’t been fully told yet and that Bart himself is holding back a lot of things as the episode has shown him to be fully willing and able to do.

    Guess any answers will hopefully come in future episodes!

    1. Well, the 40 years thing allows for the whole apocalypse revelation. Very interested in where they’re going with that.

      Great episode. I’ve never read Flash, but I really enjoyed seeing all the characters interacting, etc.

    2. I think on Young Justice they are trying to streamline DC history. All that matters ist hat Bart is from the future. The thing is in original canon he was like in it for ten seconds. He grew up in a virtual reality enviorment. At least this Bart seemed to have grown up naturaly so he had a child hood etc. So I’m actually cool with this version of his origin on YJ.

    3. Why have Bart come from only forty years in the future as opposed to the 31st Century? Well, we could either have Iris West-Allen be his grandmother simply because, through the natural passage of time, she gave birth to Bart’s father and his father sired him, which would take about forty years. Or we could deal with this, as quoted from Wikipedia:

      Iris did not stay dead for long. As Iris’s biological parents, the Russells (with the help of a future Flash, John Fox), sent the then-infant Iris to the past, where she was adopted by Ira West, her “death” caused a paradox that was resolved after the Russells placed her consciousness into a new body. Barry is reunited with Iris in her time, and they are able to spend a month together. However, the couple knows if Barry returns to the past, he will die in the Crisis on Infinite Earths. During their time together, they conceive the Tornado Twins, Don and Dawn. Don marries the descendant of Professor Zoom, Meloni Thawne, hoping to end the feud between the two families. They have a son, Bart, whose powers manifest at an early age and cause him to age at an accelerated rate.

      You really wanna see all that crammed into a 22 minute episode when it won’t do a thing to improve the plot?

      Yeah, me neither.

      PAD

      1. Yeah ~ that’s not a headache I’d want the viewing audience to have to deal with. The most important thing is to put out a good story that touches all the critical bases while allowing the overall storyline room to advance. I’d say this episode did just that.
        Thanks for responding all the same.

      2. Between the major theme in YJ of human-alien interaction, the use of planet Rimbor in the present day, and now Bart Allen growing up in his home century, I have to wonder… are there any plans for a 21st-century Legion of Super-Heroes? Because that would be sprocking awesome.

  5. Impulse!

    OhmyGodthatwastotallyawesomeImissedImpulsesomuchI’vewantedtoseeacartoonImpulseforsolongAlsohetotallyactedlikeImpulseevenifitwaskindofanactThereshouldtoitallybeanImpulsecartoonshowbutfunnierthanthisYoucouldwriteforitbutMarkWaidshouldprobablygetaskedtowritethepilotbecausehecreatedthecharacterand . . .

    [faints from talking/speaking too fast. Starts breathing again]

    Anyway, I liked the show. Two thumbs up. Don’t worry. [pant] I’ll be fine.

    1. Oops. Didn’t know writing a run-on word/sentence like that to simulate fast speaking would get it all placed on one like that. Oh well, the important stuff is written normally at the end there.

  6. Loved the Flash family stuff and Bart spoiling Robin and Nightwing’s secret IDs to Beast Boy. “You’re name’s Tim? And your’s is Ðìçk?”

  7. That was an awesome episode and excited to see what will happen next. Fantastic dialogue and character interaction

  8. Great episode! That expression by the entire Flash family on Barry’s overuse of a certain phrase was priceless! Especially liked the hook of the slight change in the future – now the question is will Bart fail or succeed and it makes no difference at all?

  9. Words cannot express how happy you’ve made me today! I absolutely LOVED this episode. The casting of Jason Marsden as Bart was spot-on, especially when you consider that he recently voiced another time-traveling hero trying to save his future from dystopia–Noel Kreiss from Final Fantasy XIII-2.

  10. Was the episode an homage to the Flash 50th Anniversary Special? It was very nice to see Jay & Bart again.

  11. Really did enjoy the episode – considering my love/hate relationship with Young Justice that’s saying something (I often feel that conclusions to long run plot threads get a bit rushed through or skipped over entirely which frustrates me).

    But I have a question. Will Wally be getting faster? A huge Wally West fan friend of mine was concerned that he was significantly slower than Bart and Barry when in the comics he’d been faster.

      1. I always thought on the YJ show, Kid Flash tended to move in short bursts of speed, to keep him from being too powerful. As PAD pointed out in a BID column (about Impulse, ironically), speedsters should be able to disarm and haul the baddie to prison before the baddie can finish a word — or even blink — so there has to be something to, er, slow them down.

      2. Didn’t it seem to vary from time to time in the comics? I seem to remember an editorial decision was made at some time to tone down his speed to just under the speed of sound. Then when he took up the Flash mantle there was an incident that revealed that he subconsciously held back his speed so he wouldn’t feel he replaced Barry, and his speed increased.

        Or are you just talking about Wally West when he was Kid Flash?

      3. Tricky statement.

        Wally West, as Kid Flash, was originally as fast as the Flash. Then, just before Crisis on Infinite Earths (and around the time Robin became Nightwing) his Speed started killing him. You can literally see him dying in the pages of Crisis on Infinite Earths and New Teen Titans 1-5(Baxter Series.)

        He got “deus ex machina” fixed at the end of Crisis; and at the same time, became the “official” Flash with the caveat of only being able to reach the Speed of Sound. This was eventually retconned into a “mental/psychological block” and Wally was allowed to run much faster. The new “catch” being that breaking the Speed of Light meant getting “swallowed” by the Speed Force. Which eventually happened. And eventually made Wally West more “powerful” and faster than Barry (for surviving it and escaping it.)

        So technically speaking, Wally West during his college years, was slower than Barry Allen because he was ill. However, Wally West as the Flash was faster than Barry Allen (to the point that he didn’t even need the Cosmic Threadmill to Travel through Time.)

        And now… having said all that… a Question!!!

        The introduction of Impulse, and the fact that Barry is still alive, basically renders Wally West… well, pretty much redundant. And I was wondering… do you know if this subplot will be addressed in the show?

        I know it’s kinda minor.

        And there was no indication that his(Wally’s) speed was killing him.

        And there are other things going on, which need to be cramped into a 22 minute show.

        But will the introduction of Bart Allen result in Wally phasing out into limbo? (Like in the current DC Universe.)

        Or will his “situation” get addressed?

  12. Great episode, out of interest, was Impulse’s “spoiler” comment a reference to River Song from Doctor Who?

    1. I highly doubt that. Just because it’s the same word doesn’t mean it’s a reference. He didn’t even say it the same way.

      1. True, but there have been (possible, maybe even probable) Doctor Who references in YJ before (the way Artemis gets to the cave in one episode – blue phone box – for example).

  13. Mr. David,

    The line about “the intersection of Fox and Gardner” was a nice touch. At first I was thinking that the line seemed really contrived, and then it made sense once I remembered the name(s). Was the line your idea? I thought it fit really well into the Flash family reunion episode.

    Also, was Neutron’s suit designed to resemble the Anti-Monitor? I’m not sure if you were involved in the art design at all, but I thought you might know the answer. Thanks for your time, and great episode!

  14. I frisking love this episode. The characterisations of all The Flashes were very engaging and fun.

    I must ask this question: When Impulse (voiced brilliantly by Jason Marsden) said the word “spoilers” throughout the episode, was that inspired by Doctor Who? 😉

  15. Thank you for such a great episode. As a HUGE fan of the Impulse comic and Young Justice(original), I was very happy to see Impulse and your name. I hope he becomes a regular on YJ. My husband and I were at first filled with trepidation when Young Justice fast forward to 5 years for Invasion. When Impulse showed up, I am now actually very excited to see where Young Justice will be going.

  16. I’m just going to quote my son (who’s just shy of 10, and who I’ve been feeding a steady diet of 90s DC books, esp Young Justice, for the last few months)when Impulse appeared – ‘I’m smiling so hard, I’m going to cry!’

    I think this is his favorite episode to date.

  17. I think my son said it best – ‘I’m smiling so hard I’m gonna cry!’
    This might be his favorite episode to date. We both commented on the noticeable absence of Flashes in general and Impulse in particular when the ‘Invasion’ timeline began, so this was truly welcome. And now we can get all of the great Tim/Bart/Conner exchanges that the comic series did so very, very well. Also, this was the first episode that my daughter watched all the way through, and she was entranced by Cheshire and Red Arrow fighting with a “baby-on-board”.
    Thanks for another great episode.

    1. Hmm. Sorry to repeat myself there. I didn’t see my response and so figured I must have not posted – I’ll blame it on my browser instead. Feel free to remove the second post (and this reply) if you need to.

  18. I very much enjoyed that. I think especially liked when Impulse asked, “Does he say that a lot?” and everyone in the room hung their heads.

    My only quibble was with the design of Impulse’s costume. It looks like a serrated saw design. I’d have preferred a lightning design.

    I also liked the simplified timeline for Bart. The comic timeline is exactly the kind of thing that makes editors throw up their hands and say, “Let’s just have a Crisis and start over.”

  19. If I’m recalling correctly, DC originally was saying YJ was set on Earth-16, where the characters had been around for about 5 years (thus the “big 4” sidekicks’ ages and time on job in episode 1) and were still somewhat new (ironic in light of the five year experience range of the Nu52) to the job.

    While this didn’t sync up exactly with a mid-teens Zatanna, Zatara wasn’t be drawn as if was particularly old, and one could assume either he was inspired to start fighting evil by the emergence of Superman et al, or that prior to joining the JLA, he’d operated in the shadows against mystical menaces.

    But a 90+ year old Jay Garrick Flash implies there was at least one pre-JLA super-hero. Did they change the set up for Earth16, or am I misremembering this Earth’s set-up?

  20. Tom:

    The heroes of the Justice League were only around for a few years when the series began – but there had been other heroes, like the Justice Society of America, back to the Thirties.

  21. How was Mr. Tryon able to discern that there was a difference between before Bart got sent back, and the end of the episode? If time had gotten changed, due to Nathaniel not being the time traveler, he shouldn’t have known Jack from before.

      1. You get a paradox just from having time travel. Just in case you don’t remember, when Neutron is shown at the end of the episode, it implies that he was “always cured”, therefore having a memory of the original timeline itself creates a paradox. I can handle small paradoxes, but this one seems handled oddly. I understand having it in so the character can comment on the fact that nothing changed, but we could have seen that for ourselves.

  22. Why oh why did Chesire bring along their ‘daughter?’ (I know in the comics she does have a child with him, but the way it’s been planned out lately makes me think it’s not really their daughter, hence the surrounding commas.)

    I mean, Chesire is skilled and all, but one bad slip and they could’ve seriously injured or killed their baby. What, was she hoping to use the baby as an anger-become-stronger mechanic?

  23. Absolutely LOVED this episode! Watched it twice already. 🙂

    Two quick questions:

    1) How many more episodes have you written for this series (aired and unaired). I heard 3 at one point, but wasn’t sure.

    2) Do you know how the season will end? I’m not asking for spoilers, just curious about how much information the producers give you before you start writing.

    Thanks for your time and your great work.

  24. Loved the ep mostly, but Cheshire and Roy bringing Lian along on the raid? Was that supposed to be funny, or to show us how messed up in the head Roy is? Because it totally skeeved me out.

    1. Roy didn’t want to do it, he had a line about, “I told you we should have left the baby with your sister.”

      Cheshire’s obviously messed up in the head. Of course she thinks she can kick butt and care for the baby at the same time.

    2. Jack Monroe did it regularly in the 90’s Nomad series. Heck…Bucky slept through most of the fights.

      –Daryl

      1. And Cable regularly time-traveled and fought all sorts of stuff while carrying Baby Hope around… sometimes even in her carrier.

        Good ep, PAD! I’m wondering whether the guys making the Neutron dance (sorry, couldn’t resist) were from the future like Bart, with their language, or aliens whose expressions became commonplace on Earth after their takeover or whatever. And yes, I know you can’t tell us even if you know, just curious *g*

        Still coming to grips with the time-jump. But any episode without Lagoon Boy is a good ep in my book…

  25. So PAD who do we have to bribe to get Arrowette to show up and then have a team up of the Young Justice team from the comics?

    1. Arrowette has already shown up (not in costume, and as a child), in season 1, episode 23 (Insecurity). She was the little girl whose father Black Spider was threatening.

  26. Peter, I really worried that the show is making Wally unimportant. Wally was as fast as Barry and then became faster after assuming the Flash mantle. As he was an adult and already The Flash when Bart came into play Wally has always been faster than Bart. I get it kind of, Bart came from a crazy future and it kind of makes sense that he’d naturally be faster than Kid Flash because Wally’s never needed to be faster. I’m hoping Wally gets a huge triumphant return.

  27. Hi! Just to say this episode was my fave so far in the series. It features all of the four who carried the name “Flash” in the comics after all. That’s all kinds of awesome itself. But I have to ask, in the part where Neutron destroyed a statue of the Flash, the statue’s Flash costume was comic!Barry’s costume. Why is that? In the series, Barry’s Flash costume design is a replica of Justice League’s Wally!Flash. If that was the design used, why did the statue’s was different? Was that a homage or something?

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