Preamble: We, the fans and pros of www.peterdavid.net, in order to form a more perfect union of fan/pro interaction, wish to let it be known that: with conventions and the Internet providing extensive opportunities for fan/pro interaction and; with new fans not quite understanding the “rules” and social mores and expectations of conventions and thus feeling uncomfortable or uncertain of what is expected of them and; partly in response to some conventions where fans in general and female fans in particular were targeted for harassment and abuse, and; in order to fill what is perceived as a needed guide for fans and pros to know and/or understand what to expect of each other in order to minimize or eliminate misunderstandings or ill-will; it is hereby resolved that this document will serve as an attempt to fill that need by spelling out the specifics of these matters to the best of our abilities. This is being done unilaterally by an assortment of fans and pros, and all the matters addressed within this document are drawn from genuine, real-life experiences of the participants (as hard as that may be to believe in some cases.) The rights set forth herein are not intended to represent the opinions or policies of any conventions or organizations, and may be considered by some to be merely guidelines. Nevertheless, it is our intent to present a series of simple, common sense, basic rights to which all fans and pros should be entitled.
For the purpose of this document, “fan” will be taken to mean anyone not working professionally in the science fiction/fantasy industry, and “pro” will include writers, artists, actors, or anyone—particularly for the purpose of convention-going—who is an advertised guest and/or panelist and/or is scheduled for autographing sessions and/or is set up with a table at either artist’s alley or the dealer’s room or an exhibition hall. The male pronoun is uniformly used to refer to all pros and all fans, not to give short shrift to the female gender, but simply for convenience sake.
The order in which this list is presented is not intended to reflect on the relative priorities of each right, save for the first one, which we have decided to call:
The Prime Directive
Fans and Pros have the right to be treated by each other with the same courtesy that they themselves would expect to be treated.* Fans and Pros who act like jerks abrogate the right to complain when they themselves are treated like jerks.
*The expectations of masochists notwithstanding.
Right the First
Fans and Pros have a right to a mutual understanding of what is expected and required from each when it comes to the giving and receiving of autographs.
1) Fans have a right to know as early as possible—preferably in the convention advertising and certainly no later than via clearly posted signs at the pro’s table—what will and will not be autographed. (EX: only materials purchased at the table as opposed to items that the fans have already acquired.)
2) Pros have a right not to be embarrassed by, or be made uncomfortable with, unauthorized materials brought for signature (EX: that jerk who brought Emma Watson an 8 x 10 of a paparazzi photograph angled up her dress) or the nature of the object to be autographed (EX: body parts). By the same token, pros should be willing to sign any material that they themselves are selling. If the pro charges for autographs, there should be no hidden costs; a price list, while not required, is extremely helpful.
3) Particularly during advertised, limited-time autograph sessions, the pro should have the right to not have any one individual attempt to monopolize his time. For that matter, the fans have the right not to have to stand there and watch some guy tell the pro his life’s story. In cases of convention-sponsored autographs sessions, conventions should provide one or more monitors to be responsible for keeping the line moving so that pros don’t have to be the bad guy and fans don’t have to shout at their fellow fans to keep moving, and to cap the line so that the pro is not required to remain overtime.
4) Unless there is prior notification otherwise, fans have a right to have their books personalized. If they desire personalization, they should say so up front so the pro doesn’t have to guess. Nor should pros have to guess at the spelling of names. Don’t assume the pro will figure out that your name has a silent “q.” Complicated names should be presented on pieces of paper for convenience. If your name is on your badge but it’s spelled wrong, do not expect the pro to intuit that. Pros should not be asked to sign potentially inflammatory messages because the fan thinks it “will be funny” or “he’ll appreciate it.” (EX: Dear Jim: Why didn’t you show up, you áššhølë? Best wishes.)
5) Fans do not have an automatic right to expect an autograph unless a pro is seated at a table designated as an autograph table. An autograph table is defined as a table specifically established by the convention, or by third-party exhibitors, as a location at which the pro will be appearing for a limited time for the sole purpose of giving autographs (as opposed to artists alley tables or the pro’s own dealer table.) Even then: (1) the pro is under no obligation to sign more than one item unless stipulated by mutual agreement with the convention; (2) the pro has every right, at his discretion, not to autograph items, for any number of reasons including, but not limited to, (i) not having authored the work in question, (ii) fatigue, (iii) the fan showed up just at the signing’s conclusion with a significant number of books, (iv) the fan is acting like a jerk (see: Prime Directive.)
6) Fans with excessive amounts of material to be autographed should be willing to go to the end of the line and wait again in order to accommodate fans with fewer books to be signed. The definition of “excessive” will be the sole discretion of the pro and the convention organizers. If the pro has an absolute maximum beyond which he will not sign under any circumstance, or if the convention has a set limit in order to avoid overcrowdings or excessive lines, this limit should be made clear in the welcome material presented to attendees.
7) If the fan has accomplished the goal of getting an autograph, he should not monopolize a pro’s time even if there’s no one waiting behind him. If the pro has stopped talking and is sitting there simply smiling, take this as an unspoken cue that it’s time to move on. Just standing there for extended periods, waiting for the pro to say or do something clever, makes the pro feel uncomfortable and makes the fan come across as kind of creepy. This is a pro, not a resident of a petting zoo.
8 ) If a fan wishes to approach a pro, he should simply do so. If he doesn’t have the nerve, he should walk away until such time as he’s prepared to approach the guest. Simply standing a short distance away for an extended period while trying to build up one’s nerve can come across as a creepy stalker vibe. Pros have a right not to have to wonder why That Guy Over There has been watching them for fifteen minutes without moving. By the same token, pros should be aware of possible nervous reticence on the part of some fans, and should make every effort to be inviting and approachable, up to and including saying something along the lines of, “Hi, can I do something for you?” to a fan hovering nearby.
9) No matter how long a line is, fans should yield the right of way to a fellow fan with a screaming baby. This may seem unfair, but it’ll make everyone’s life easier, and it beats scowling and profanities.
10) Fans have a right not to be abused, scolded, scowled at or otherwise upbraided if they are clearly planning to profiteer off the autographs (EX: Multiple copies of the same book.) If they resell the books, that will just enable them to make more money to buy more copies of books by the pro that signed them in the first place. It’s capitalism’s circle of life.
11) Pros should never have to remove books or comic books from plastic sleeves, particularly if the flaps are taped down. Comic books should be presented ready for signing; books should be open to the title page or wherever the fan prefers it to be signed. If a fan is frustrated because he’s been waiting for a long time, he should keep that frustration to himself and not toss his comics to or at the pro.
12) Pros have the right to be treated courteously at all times. Fans asking for autographs while simultaneously telling the pro everything that’s “wrong” with his work are exhibiting bad form.
13) If a fan tells a pro that a particular work of his is the fan’s “favorite,” the minimal acceptable response is, “Thank you.” Cringing, making a face, saying, “Are you kidding me?,” “Do you have your taste in your ášš?”, “What is wrong with you?”, “That’s the least favorite thing I’ve ever done,” etc., should all be actively discouraged. If seeing past work of yours upsets you to such a degree that you feel obliged to denigrate both yourself and the fan’s taste, don’t go to conventions.
Right the Second
Fans have a right to wear and/or carry whatever they want to a convention. But one fan’s right to personal expression ends at another fan’s right to personal space.
1) Fans must be aware when accoutrements widen the amount of space they take up, either side-to-side or front to back. Attendees have a right to walk around a convention without being struck by: (1) backpacks; (2) rolling suitcases; (3) wings; (4) shoulder pads; (5) swords, shields, scabbards, bows, giant keys, quivers, bat’leths, batarangs, and any other type of weapon or weapon container; (6) capes; (7) gigantic signs; or any other object that can inflict pain or injury if the wearer/bearer turns around too quickly.
2) Fans and pros have a right to walk through convention space without being impeded by other attendees who are either taking photographs or posing for photographs. Quick photographs taken out of main traffic paths of either fans with pros or fans in costume are not bothersome as long as they do not block traffic. However, large numbers of costumed individuals posing for a battery of photographers poses a traffic hazard. It’s a convention, not the red carpet at the Oscars.
3) Should such blockages occur, fans and pros desiring to get from Point A to Point B should have the right of way and be able to walk directly through the picture-taking area without feeling guilty about ruining other people’s pictures. When passing fans walk in front of people’s cameras, such entries into the picture should, if possible, be accompanied by some manner of warning such as, “Excuse me.” “Coming through.” “Fore.” If photographers aren’t courteous enough to concern themselves about fans and/or pros getting where they need to go, then fans and/or pros shouldn’t have to worry about the photographers getting their pictures of five slave Leias and a Wookiee.
4) Fans have a right not to play along. Everyone appreciates dedication to one’s character; nevertheless, you don’t get a free pass to act a jerk just because you’re cosplaying a Klingon or Lobo.
Right the Third
Pros have as much right to enjoy conventions as anyone else. Pros are typically referred to as “guests,” and even “guests of honor.” If you treat guests in an insensitive manner, they will stop coming to your house.
1) Pros have the right to attend panels as audience members, walk the dealer’s room, or in other ways enjoy the convention without being approached with questions or requests for autographs. Fans who make such approaches do so at their own risk. Pros should make best efforts to extend such extra courtesies when possible, but should not be subjected to subsequent fan excoriation if they choose to demur. (EX: “He refused to sign my program book even though he was just standing there doing nothing.”)
2) As corollary to the above paragraph, the one situation where under no circumstance can pros be approached is when attending to bodily functions. Toilets are to be considered Off Limits for purposes of fan/pro interaction. Do not ever try to hand something to someone to sign while they are peeing. Do not push a comic under a stall door because you know they are in there and can’t get away. Do not decide that a toilet is the best possible place for a photograph with or of your favorite creator. Just… don’t.
3) Pros have as much right to privacy as anyone else. Under no circumstance should fans hover near, spy on, or eavesdrop upon private conversations that pros are having with each other off in a corner somewhere or while walking along a hallway. Such behavior would be considered rude if it’s done with total strangers, much less respected guests; fishing for dirt or leaks about upcoming work is bad form.
4) If an author is sitting around in a bar and you wish to approach him, you should offer to buy him a drink. This is particularly applicable with guests from the U.K. and/or Ireland. The technical term for this is “a bribe.” With conventions in the U.K. or Ireland, the technical term for sitting around in a bar and buying authors drinks is “a panel.”
5) Some authors, because they have no one to watch their artist alley or exhibition table, will choose to eat at their table rather than go out to lunch. They have the right to this personal time without intrusion. Just because a fan says, “I don’t want to interrupt you” before they drop ten books in front of the pro does not make it any less an interruption. Furthermore the pro’s hands may not be clean, which could result in anything from crumbs to mayo stains getting on the material to be autographed, which no one will be happy about.
6) Authors are not your bìŧçhëš (AKA The Neil Gaiman Assertion.)
7) Actors are not your performing monkeys (AKA The Misha Collins Declaration.)
Right the Fourth
Fans and Pros have the right to enjoy panels.
1) Fans and/or convention organizers should reasonably assume they have the right to film or video record panels unless explicit notice is provided at the beginning of the panel that visual recording is forbidden, or a blanket prohibition is published in the program book by the convention.
2) If a fan is so exhausted that he might fall asleep, he should be seated toward the back of the room, not the front row where his sonorous snoring and trickle of drool down his chin provide both audible and visual distractions. If a pro is likewise exhausted, he should beg off being on the panel. Should anyone choose to ignore this advice, the strategic and retaliatory use of air horns by either panelists or fans, while not encouraged, shall be excused. Should air horns be employed, said usage is not to be filmed and put up on Youtube unless it’s really, really funny.
3) Cell phones should be shut off or set to vibrate during panels. If a fan forgets and his phone rings, people are allowed to voice loud annoyance. If a panelist forgets and his cell phone goes off while he’s on the panel, loud annoyance is NOT permitted. However laughter, snarking and Simpson-esque “HA ha!” are not only acceptable but also encouraged.
4) Question and answer sessions are designed for succinctly phrased questions that will, in turn, elicit answers. They are not intended for fan pontifications, declamations, circumlocution, or soliloquies. They are not intended for a fan to try and bond with the panelists or show them how special the questioner is. They are not intended to be preceded by a lengthy preamble that explains how the fan’s entire existence and the fates conspired to bring him to this particular point at this particular time to pose this particular question. This is a panel, not The Bridge of San Luis Rey. Fans choosing to ignore these guidelines proceed at their risk and better hope their personal narrative is compelling enough that audiences will not find it onerous.
5) Audiences have a right to boo or bemoan the following questions: (i) “Can I have a hug?” (ii) “Can I have a kiss?” (iii) “Can I have my picture taken with you?” (iv) “How YOU doin’?” (or any similar come-on or question involving asking for a date.)
6) If there are certain topics or works that are known to be provocative subjects, do not be a smart ášš and bring it up anyway just to get a reaction or show that you’re fearless. If you poke the bear, don’t be surprised if you get the claws (AKA The Ellison Exacerbation). Should a novice fan who poses such a question happen to be ignorant of its provocative nature, he will likely be tipped off by the collective gasp of the audience and the scowl from the pro. In this event, he has the right to withdraw the question, no harm, no foul.
7) Good rule of thumb: if a question sounds like something that would be asked by the main fan geek from Galaxy Quest, avoid asking it. If you must posit technical questions, particularly involving contradictions, save them for writers. Actors have the right to not be their characters, and they do not generally have responses for picayune errata, especially since James Doohan passed away.
8 ) Attendees should not have to put up with redundancy. If you are a latecomer, quietly inquire of people near you if your intended question has already been addressed.
9) Pros have a right to express unpopular or inflammatory opinions on panels or elsewhere without it immediately resulting in fans announcing that henceforth they will never read anything by that author ever again. Pros also have a right to believe monkeys will fly out of their ášš.
10) Fans with children have as much right to enjoy panels as anyone else. Fans without children have a right to enjoy panels without children crying or disrupting them. Pros have a right to express themselves freely without concern as to language or subject matter. Children have a right to be immersed in the conventional culture since they are the future of fandom. Everyone has a right not to have their feet run over by strollers. In instances where any and/or all of these rights conflict, the Tim Gunn rule applies: Make it work.
Right the Fifth
Convention-related rights stem from solid organization, and therefore convention organizers have certain expectations that they should meet.
1) Fans have a right to an efficient registration procedure.
2) Fans have a right to a central information booth, staffed by people who actually either have the answers or can find them quickly.
3) Attendees have the right to be able to read, with no effort, the badges of other attendees. Appropriate place for badges to be worn is either around the neck on a lanyard or in the upper left or right of one’s shirt. Do not place your badge at hip level. No one needs or wants to be made uncomfortable staring at your crotch.
4) Attendees have a right to expect that convention organizers will heed the Maximum Occupancy signs and not endanger the attendees by overselling the convention. Rarely does anyone cosplay a Fire Marshal; if you see one, chances are he’s real and you’re in trouble. Nobody needs this grief.
5) Guest pros being sponsored by the convention have a right to written confirmation of all terms of their convention attendance at least ninety days before the convention, with travel arrangements finalized no later than thirty days prior. Travel in such instances should never be the expense of the pro with subsequent expectation of reimbursement unless the pro agrees to this…in which case, the pro better be dámņëd sure the organizer is good for it, because otherwise he’s on his own.
6) Fans in wheelchairs or similar devices for locomotion have a right to proper accommodations for their personal needs, such as sufficient aisle width. They also have the right: not to have people cut in front of them in line; not to have items they’re considering buying grabbed out of their hands; not to be assumed to be mentally challenged. Which, when you get down to it, all fans have these rights, but those in wheelchairs appear to be victimized by it more often. Non-ambulatory fans should also be given preferential treatment for elevators, since stairs are not an option.
7) Conventions should take security measures and have people designated specifically to handle disruptive individuals, crowd control, etc., as well as an advertised security ombudsmen to whom fans can go if situations of harassment arise. Should the convention opt for security forces composed of local groups of Storm Troopers, Dorsai, Klingons, etc., it should be emphasized to them that they are there for the convenience and safety of the fans, and not to cosplay as bad-áššëš. Security guards should be able to distinguish between groups of fans blocking access as opposed to a single fan who is simply standing still for a minute or two deciding which direction he’s going to go.
The foregoing represents the best efforts of a particular group of individuals to enumerate the rights of fans and guidelines for behavior that will ensure and protect those rights. So say we all.
Copyright (c) 2011 Second Age, Inc.
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Right the Third, Point 5; That’s about the only problem I ever have at cons, and it’s every single one! SO glad you put that in there.
Peter, you forgot one thing regarding people in wheelchairs and scooters: being physically disabled does NOT give you the right to jump to the front of the line. The Americans with Disabilities act says accessibility – not a Free Pass. Is it polite to step out of the way and let them into the handicapped toilet before you? Yes, but it is not a given right any more than to the person standing behind you. You sit, I stand, we both wait together. Is it polite to give the person with crutches or a cane a chair to sit on in line? Sure, but it’s a courtesy. My disabled kids wait in the line with me, *because that’s what everyone else does*. Sometimes they stand, sometimes they sit on the floor, but they have to wait just like everyone else. Leaning on a scooter horn and ordering everyone out of your way so you can get to the front of the line because “you’re disabled” is beyond rude, and should not be tolerated by ANYONE. On the other hand, if an autistic is having a major meltdown, it is nice – but not required – to let them to the front. Or, even better, let them step out of line for a minute, regain composure, and *let them back into line where they were.* You really don’t want that kind of disturbance, and it doesn’t help the autistic to have that big an audience to feed off of.
Susan: I tried to aim the BoR at things that might not have occurred to people who are new to fandom or unfamiliar with convention protocol. I intended this to be the Fan/Pro Bill of Rights, not a Kindergarten primer. So I figure that I shouldn’t have to single out people in wheelchairs and scooters and say, “But you don’t have the right to jump ahead of your fellow fans” because I figure that at some point in their lives, they should have learned that already.
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PAD
It’s a “Kindergarten primer” and will go over much the same.
Neither party will agree as they’re all too busy being there about themselves and what they want at that moment. The inherent childishness will always show far more then reason.
Good effort. Just as with so many politicians that attempted peace in the middle east.
Or getting those women/gals to stop flashing their breasts or throwing their underpants on the stage with the band playing.
And to what Peter said above, I would also add that I think such behavior comes under the heading of “don’t be a jerk” which has already been covered ad nauseum.
Something for the section for convention organizers:
No aspect of programming shall be considered to relegate the attendees of that programming to the status of second-class citizens. Convention organizers are entitled not to run a filk track, costume event, gaming track, or what have you. However, if they run one, they are expected to situate it in an accessible area of the hotel with as much in the way of creature comforts as any other track (as well as those specifically necessary for the event, such as water for musicians), and with a schedule that is not composed of the leftovers from when everyone else wants the good rooms. If you’re not prepared to do this, don’t run that type of programming. If you do not know how to do this, hire a track head who does, or else don’t run that type of programming. But don’t try to claim that, “we have to do it that way or we couldn’t have X at all.” If you’re only planning to throw the leftover scraps to the beggar at the window, you’re better off skipping that track and directing them to a different con.
Very well put, Naomi! I’m a filker and I don’t return to cons that treat filkers with total disrespect, like very noisy spaces where we can’t hear each other, maintenance staff walk through the circle, and water is never around. I too would rather that cons only run the tracks they are going to run well.
That, yes. I’m looking at it mostly from the filk side too, though I do some gaming; and mostly I’ve taken to attending filk-only conventions because I’m so sick of the way gencons treat filkers. The last Worldcon put the filk rooms in a smoking area — and had to move the concerts out of the alleged “filk hotel” at the last minute in order to keep the performers from wheezing, but the circle singers got no such help. There are a few exceptions, gencons who run filk tracks as well as any filkcon, but it’s rare.
Concerned about cost. I don’t think this should be enacted unless you cut spending to the Fan/Pro Internet Politeness Initiative (FPIPI).
The original use of badges at SF conventions was to not only hold the name of the attendee, but of where they were from as well. This gave other people not only your name, but the possibility that they might actually meet someone from their own home town, back in the days when the expression “It’s a Proud and Lonely Thing to Be a Fan” was literally true.
Nowadays, SF convention still have name badges, which list the names of both lowly attendees and well-known professionals in attendance. The modern tendency of people to use a pseudonym (a “badge name” versus the real one) is frowned on at most SF conventions. Like the use of a pseudonym when posting a comment, it allows one to hide behind a phony name and thus makes it easier to be an idiot or just outrageous.
Oh, and no one I know of charges for their autograph at SF conventions.
There are regularly fans who come up to me at conventions, asking me how much I charge. When I say that I don’t charge–that I have books to sell but if they already have stuff, I sign it for free–you can’t imagine the relief and joy on their faces. It’s one less expense (or perhaps one more picture of an actor that they can purchase).
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Thank you for that. Once I didn’t have money but Isaac Asimov signed a sketchbook of mine (I drew him, so he said I ‘had good taste’ ;-)).
I spent an afternoon at the Bar with Gerrold, Sturgeon & VandeCamp, and forgot to get autographs! It took me ten more years to finally get them again.
Recently Buzz Aldrin wanted $50, and that’s if I didn’t purchase his $65 book. I’m sure Buzz doesn’t get far on a military pension, and those books were probably self-published, so he probably LOST money printing them.
POINT: You never know what a celeb or artist needs. Just go with the flow, and make a connection, that’s more important than pen & ink ‘memories’.
The last time I met you though, I bought a pile of books and you seemed surprised that I didn’t want them all signed. Hey bud, I like reading your stuff too! The one copy I asked you to sign I’d already worn out a reading copy the year before (part of a series I had to backtrack a couple of times to keep up with all the threads) so that autographed replacement was my ‘keeper’.
I’d be curious to know how many people actually use a ‘badge name’. IIRC, several years ago when I went to Gallifrey One, they allowed you to have your real name as well as another line for stuff such as your online handle. SDCC, however, doesn’t do that (although I have see pros with odd names on their badges there).
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So, in this digital age where everybody is on message boards with usernames and all, I like the extra identifying info being available, if one would like to add it. But then, as I say that, while I would add such info at a smaller convention like Gallifrey, I would NOT do so at SDCC.
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One story about using my real name on a forum and then going to SDCC. Everybody’s in the habit of looking to the name badge (it certainly helps those doing autographs to help spell the name correctly).
I went to meet Keith DeCandido with one of his Star Trek books at the signing area. He looks at the badge, sees the name, and he lights up in recognition. My wife has a photo of that moment, and it’s one of her favorites from our trips to San Diego. Although to this day she wonders *why* Keith would recognize my name. 😀
No one you know of charges for autographs? I take it you anly collect author and/or artist signatures, because *all* actor guests do charge.
I posted this comment on Facebook, but wanted to include it here.
The only one I have a disagreement with is #10 in Right the First. I feel that anyone wanting to get multiple copies of something autograph for the purpose of selling it should not be in line, but make a prior arrangement with the pro for said autographs at another time. (and said arrangement can and probably should include the pro being paid for his/her time spent autographing) The purpose of getting an autograph at a convention should be for personal enjoyment, not profit. The convention is supposed to be for fans to get together and talk comics(or movies or tv, etc.), have access to retail items at paid for tables, get information about upcoming things for the various media, and to meet with the pros they admire and like.
Well, Rob, there is indeed one retailer who regularly comes up to me with a massive number of books to sign. And he pays me for it, and leaves it with me so that I can work on it during a period of hours when things are going slowly. I wish everyone was like him. But I don’t feel comfortable dictating what “the convention is supposed to be for.” Everyone has their own priorities, and I’m not going to denigrate someone whose priorities don’t match up with mine.
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I am not trying to dictate what anyone going to a convention is going for. However, I would say that the majority of convention goers are going for the reasons I stated.
But what is the purpose of having an autographing period/table if not for a chance for fans to meet the pros and get an autograph? It is one thing if the pro has a table him/herself and anyone can approach at any time. It is another when the pro is there for a set time and some fans don’t get a chance to get an autograph because 10 or so people are having multiple copies of a book signed for the purpose of selling them for a profit.
We may have to agree to disagree on this. I still feel that it is not right that a person can use up the time that fans have to meet a pro they like solely for a money making venture. It is not the money making part I am saying is wrong. It is about fans wanting a personal autograph not being able to get one. And I think fans, especially those who get cut off, have a right to complain, scowl, scold, or upbraid (never abuse though) such a person.
I don’t think we’re actually that far apart, Rob. I made particular note of the fact that, if someone is getting multiple copies signed, they have to be willing to wait repeatedly–with the amount to be autographed purely at the discretion of the pro/and or convention–in order to accomplish that. Clearly the Bill of Rights comes down in favor of fans who are there solely for the reasons you’re putting forward.
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(hmm do I call you “Peter” like I know you personally or do I go with the more formal Mr. David and sound all stuffy? Oh the dilemma!)
If only all pros did the make the person wait in line multiple times. That is #6 in Right the First. Still, if the pro or con doesn’t put a limit and a stack of books is being signed then I think the fans have a right to complain and scold the person with multipe books.
Thing is, the onlooker has no way of knowing what reason there might be for getting multiple copies of something signed.
One case in point, is that I have a particular pro sign multiple copies of various things every time he has an appearance. Why? Because I sell them on Ebay to raise funds for others. Yeah, I very much hope to have them sell for a lot of money but it’s not for me.
Another situation is that small businesses are likely to be getting items signed in order to stock them in their shops, or for their customers. I know my comic shop does that and sometimes asks me to get what signature I can.
I just don’t think that assuming somebody is profiteering is correct.
Jan,
Whether the person having multiple copies signed is just one person going to sell them on Ebay or the owner of a comic book shop who is going to sell them in a comic book shop, it is still a for profit deal.
And yes, waiting in line I might not know that you are going to sell all those books for charity (althought the majority of multiple copies of a single book being signed are not for charity, but profit.IMHO) But the thing to do is to ask the pro if he/she can sign them at another time for you. I think this should be the way to do it whether the proceeds from the sale of these books go to charity or not. And as I said in an earlier post, if it is for profit, then the pro should be paid for his/her time.
I think that monopolizing the pro’s time by having him/her sign multiple copies is being rude to and inconsiderate of the other people in line waiting for an autograph and a few words with their favorite pro.
Well, as stated in the rights, it’s not monopolizing the pro’s time if the person is willing to stand repeatedly on line, only presenting a limited number at a time. If he’s got a hundred books but he’s willing to get ten signed in a single throw and then go back and wait an additional nine times, I don’t see that as being any different from nine separate people.As long as other fans aren’t being made to wait an inordinate amount of time, what’s the difference? For that matter, guys who are all about getting books signed for resale (via stores, charity or ebay) are pretty efficient: here’s the books, I sign them, they move on. Compare them to fans who only have one book to get signed, but want to take ten minutes to tell me how much of an impact this particular book has had on their lives. Which, y’know, is always appreciated by the pro, but far less so by the people standing behind him who are seeing their chances of making the “Voices of Ben 10” panel slipping away because they have to wait until this guy gets the story of his life off his chest.
It’s not always just about quantity, is what I’m saying.
PAD
Right the First, #8 reminds me of when I had attended the San Diego Comic Con back in 1993. I was walking through the back of the convention center when I saw Frank Miller signing autographs at the Dark Horse Comics booth. I was about get into his autograph line when I saw Jack Kirby and his wife sitting by themselves alone at their table. I think my heart must have stopped. I ran up to that table and shook Jack’s hand. I was just totally tongue tied. Luckily, my friend was walking by so I had him take a picture of Jack and me. That photo is probably one of my most prized possessions.
Reagarding: “Fans have a right to wear and/or carry whatever they want to a convention. But one fan’s right to personal expression ends at another fan’s right to personal space.”
A few comments from an Artist/Costuming Guest POV
1)Sadly, although there are most certainly ill mannered costumers out there, I find “props vs. personal space” is often merely and excuse rude people use to bash by costumers, or act ill mannered, even if said costumer is being both careful and mindful of their surroundings.
2) I find that often even if the costumer is trying to move along, or pose out of the way, if photographers/digital enabled fans, are blocking an area it’s still the *costumers* who take the brunt of the cursing, and rudeness of the frustrated attendees.
3)Additionally there could be a few more additions regarding personal space. As a costuming guest, it’s amazing how many times I find that people often equate your wearing a costume, (of any type, revealing, totally covered, etc), with an open invitation to be touched, groped, manhandled, etc. Posting for pictures, with permission is fine. Touching my costume & props is fine, again, with permission. “Glomping, hiding under my skirt, trying to ride me like a motorcycle, bøøb grabbing, motor boating, dumping your baby in my arms unannounced, and so forth….no. (All this and more HAS happened.)
In closing,
Great project David! 🙂
It boils down to mutual consideration.
And deodorant.
Rob wrote:
“If only all pros did the make the person wait in line multiple times… Still, if the pro or con doesn’t put a limit and a stack of books is being signed then I think the fans have a right to complain and scold the person with multiple books.”
I don’t think it’s the writer’s responsibility to police that sort of thing (he’s there as a *guest* of the convention, after all), and it’s certainly not the role of the other fans in line to have to deal with that either. In the situation you describe the potential for conflict and hurt feelings is too great. I suggest that the proper response is for the convention staff to ask the writer or other GOH just what their desires are in the matter, and then to make that information clearly known to the convention members. And then to provide Convention Security at the autograph session to assure that the announced policy is followed. That’s the only way I see to be fair to both the guests and the attendees. As for the “I’m getting them signed for charity” aspect of the question, it’s a good thought, but if you’re in front of me in the autograph line with a couple of dozen books to be signed “for charity”, why should your charitable act require that I wait longer in line to get my single book signed? Perhaps your charity isn’t one that I’d support. Perhaps it’s not one that the person being asked to do the signing would support. And as a convention organizer, I wouldn’t particularly what charity you had in mind if you’re jamming up the autograph line and annoying the other 100 attendees behind you in line. Sorry; get two books signed and go back to the end of the line, bud. And that’s what everyone else will get told too, since that’s the only way to be fair to you too.
Very well written Rights, from first to last.
I especially agree with the comment on Klingons. There’s no need to be rude, and if you are to remain ‘in character’ remember that an armed society is a polite society.
Otherwise neither the individual members, nor the social institution itself would survive for long.
…And don’t speak endlessly ‘in an alien’ tongue unless your audience understands you, because fandom is about sharing similar interests. Do just enough for demonstration & communication. Enough mundanes exclude fans, we should be better than that.
Also don’t contradict an Author on what they ‘meant’ to write. As much as we may have read it, we just don’t know what really goes on in artists heads during those long lonely hours. Just be happy publishers allowed them to share these stories with the rest of us.
Finally, by Grethors’ Hammer, DO NOT go after the families & friends of celebrity guests. That also goes for celebrities with disabilities. If they’re walking with a limp, or taking the elevator instead of the stairs due to infirmities, DO NOT POUNCE. Jack Chalker once took down a fan who tried to take advantage of his requiring a cane to walk. Not wise against a combat veteran of Viet Nam.
Another tried to hound an actor not longer after he’d had a heart attack. Fans and a helpful stunt woman celeb had to divert that fan, but the point is that even ‘new’ fans should know better, and behave honorably.
A Klingon with honor knows the difference between proper Klingon boisterousness and rudeness.
Peter…so sad that the things we learned as children are not taught anymore. I learned first at home then later at school and in church.
This is well-written and I look forward to collecting a copy (if ever made available)at a future con…signed by those who have set their hands to this marvelous document…and I will pay for it if necessary. Thanks from an con-attendee/worker and mom.
They’re still taught. Some people just don’t bother to learn. (And this was always the case.)
A rule I’d want to see implemented is summary execution for people who don’t bathe/shower daily. Really, If you’re not a street denizen too poor to afford it, then there’s no excuse.
Pros should not be given panels back-to-back on opposite ends of the venue.
Thanks. There are things here that can’t be said too often. Some of them, like BADGES SHOULD BE READABLE, I’ve been saying for years, a voice crying in the wilderness. (Specific gripe, and if you have ever been guilty of this I AM MOCKING YOU: elaborate badges with a huge convention logo filling most of the space and the attendee’s name in six-point type. Confidential message to the badge designer: We know what convention we are at, and you are a wáņkër at least in the figurative sense.)
I just returned from a very fine convention at which most of the headlined guests were charging for autographs and photos. I know, that’s the way they do it now. That’s not the way I do it. If somebody has bought a game, they have already supported me, and if all they have is a piece of paper, I’ll give them a Munchkin bookmark if I have one. I am still a fan, I am still a geek, I have been where they are.
I see PAD’s frustration at frequently asked and answered questions. Perhaps a manifesto is needed in which bloggers assert their right not to be buried in comments by people who have not read the thread. Hmmm?
When I go to a show, I expect my hosts to be able to give me a single sheet of paper on which all my events are listed, with time and place. Yet I often find myself reading through many pages of scheduling, and what do you know, there’s a conflict.
Steve Jackson wrote:
“When I go to a show, I expect my hosts to be able to give me a single sheet of paper on which all my events are listed, with time and place. Yet I often find myself reading through many pages of scheduling, and what do you know, there’s a conflict.”
Thanks for this. I’m on a new committee to bid for a major regional convention and this sort of specific suggestion for something that I can easily do to make our guest’s experience a little easier is very welcome indeed. Thanks to you, Steve, I’ll make sure that *this* suggestion is implemented at my convention. What else can a con committee reasonably do to smooth the paths for our guests?
Curt, you asked for other suggestions. Please make sure your programming people actually read the responses from participants about when they can arrive and when they have to leave. Sometimes people are scheduled at times they have stated over and over, well in advance, they are not available. Fans see the name in the program book and think that panelist hasn’t respected their commitments, when in fact it’s the program committee that hasn’t respected the panelist’s available times.
I was at one con that partly conflicted with a business event. I could not be scheduled for anything before 5 pm on the Saturday. They scheduled me for 2 pm. I reminded them in writing of my time conflict and they delighted advised they had rescheduled my panel, for my convenience – to 3 pm. Sigh.
If it’s a large venue, especially one the guest has never been to, a map with highlighting where the guest’s sessions are would be useful too.
Those are very reasonable suggestions, Jane, and I thank you for offering them. This sort of thing should be standard courtesy for any convention’s guests, and I’ll certainly observe them at mine. More, anyone?
Curt,
Any convention providing food and drink for their guests should, at a minimum, find out and respect what dietary limitations the guest has, be they personal choice, physiologically dangerous, or any stripe of religious. Anything from having easy references for what foods might be on the verboten list for a guest all the way to meals made to order for the guest would be acceptable. The latter is likely not going to be common, but it might not be out of the question for a big draw with specific dietary needs that might be hard to manage in the area.
Additionally, if printed materials are being prepared for guests, providing a copy of the restaurant guide highlighting restaurants specifically suitable for them (or mentioning which ones would be a bad idea) would also reduce your guests’ stress levels.
I agree with it overall. I wouldn’t walk in front of people trying to take a picture, though, at a convention any more than I would walk in front of someone trying to take a picture at Mt. Rushmore. Yeah, it’s annoying when they’re in your way, but sometimes avoidance is the best defense. Besides, it takes a couple of seconds to take the picture and, if you disrupt the process, they’ll just take more time to retake it.
Kudos on the questions asked at conventions in Right #4, Point 5. May I suggest adding, “Where do you get your ideas?”, “Do you have any advice for struggling young [writers, actors, musicians]?” and, my favorite, “What’s it like working with [insert name of more famous person here]?”
I’ll never forget sitting through a Q&A session where someone thought it would be interesting to tell the celebrity the numbers of times he, the fan, had met the celebrity in the past. Only it wasn’t the fan each time. One time, it was him; another time, it was his brother; then it was his roommate’s counsin’s barber…
No questions, nothing new gleaned, lots of time wasted.
Re: Rule #4, Point 10: I think that mutual consideration is due here. By all means, remove crying babies/toddlers from the room as one should at any public event where hearing is part of the experience. However, I would like to make a pitch for being mindful of one’s audience. We really appreciated the actress at a con recently who stopped in the middle of a story, asked if there were any children present and asked the parents of the one child if they would cover his ears for a just a moment. On the flip side, we have never forgotten the actor who began a profanity-laden rant that didn’t stop even after he noticed people with kids coming in late and mentioned he should probably tone it down. That thought didn’t last.My own husband, whose favorite movie is “Die Hard” for Heaven’s sake, was ready to walk out after two minutes.